Offensive Linemen. Hidden Metrics.

[bulldoghair]

1. Lebby’s offense for the 2nd straight year is the fastest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 22.2 (SEC #1)

12–20 sec rests → lactic buildup

Plays/Game Offense: 80 (SEC #1)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 4,800–5,500m

Skill-player type loads on linemen → higher strain risk

Lebby’s tempo has directly fueled OL injury spikes again this year with 19 missed starts through Week 12 (SEC #1). Up-tempo amplifies strength and conditioning challenges.

2. On the contrary, Vanderbilt’s huddle-heavy approach is the slowest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 29.5 (SEC #16)

35+ sec → better muscle recovery.

Plays/Game Offense: 67 (SEC #16)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 2,900–3,500m

Traditional OL conditioning suffices.

Vanderbilt’s slower pace has kept them at just 3 missed starts, fewest in the SEC. They have the healthiest OL in the SEC. This emphasizes their strength and conditioning’s role in prevention (ex. fewer sub-25-sec sprints in training). Vanderbilt’s pace avoids late-game fatigue.

 

[bulldoghair]

With regards to OL, Lebby’s strength and conditioning demands “hybrid athlete” type conditioning (more sprints, GPS-tracked high-heart-rate loads), while Vanderbilt focuses on power/recovery cycles and heavy lifts, suiting their scheme. Vanderbilt’s model proves slower can be stronger in the trenches. Vanderbilt’s conservatism builds sustainability.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Which also puts more stress on our defense by either scoring too quickly or rapidly going threes-and-out. Right?
Edit: I meant to say our defense.

 

[bulldoghair]

Which also puts more stress on the defense by either scoring too quickly or rapidly going threes-and-out. Right?

I would say so for sure, with regards to our own defense.

We are 5-6, Vanderbilt is 9-2. I would say Vanderbilt’s scheme puts more stress on opposing defenses.

 

[Villagedawg]

1. Lebby’s offense for the 2nd straight year is the fastest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 22.2 (SEC #1)

12–20 sec rests → lactic buildup

Plays/Game Offense: 80 (SEC #1)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 4,800–5,500m

Skill-player type loads on linemen → higher strain risk

Lebby’s tempo has directly fueled OL injury spikes again this year with 19 missed starts through Week 12 (SEC #1). Up-tempo amplifies strength and conditioning challenges.

2. On the contrary, Vanderbilt’s huddle-heavy approach is the slowest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 29.5 (SEC #16)

35+ sec → better muscle recovery.

Plays/Game Offense: 67 (SEC #16)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 2,900–3,500m

Traditional OL conditioning suffices.

Vanderbilt’s slower pace has kept them at just 3 missed starts, fewest in the SEC. They have the healthiest OL in the SEC. This emphasizes their strength and conditioning’s role in prevention (ex. fewer sub-25-sec sprints in training). Vanderbilt’s pace avoids late-game fatigue.

Run Tampa 2 defense and get 350 pound OL an RUN THE BAWL!
In all seriousness, that is interesting data. Worth considering.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

LOL

 

[bulldoghair]

LOL

Are you asking for the simplified LOL metric?

State:

L- League-leading tempo → Mississippi State (22.2 sec/play)

O- Offensive Line injuries → 19 missed starts (worst in SEC)

L- Late-game collapses → 4th-quarter PFF grades drop to 62.4 (from 70+ early). Higher late strains (per GPS)- led to 10 sacks in last 3 games’ 4th quarters.

Vanderbilt:

L- Lowest tempo in the SEC → 29.5 sec/play

O- Offensive Line health → fewest missed starts (healthiest in SEC)

L- Laughing all the way to the 4th quarter → PFF grades actually go UP to 84.5 (+5% from 1st half). Improves via fresh legs—0 sacks in 4th Q of last 5 wins.

 

[bulldoghair]

Which also puts more stress on our defense by either scoring too quickly or rapidly going threes-and-out. Right?
Edit: I meant to say our defense.

Our defense is on the field for an SEC-high 78.4 snaps per game (SEC #1).

Because of the high volume and lack of rest, our defense has the most missed starts in the SEC due to injuries in through Week 12 (SEC #1)

Result- By the 4th quarter they’re completely gassed: 4th-quarter defensive PFF grade: 52.1 (dead last in SEC). 4th-quarter yards per play allowed: 7.8 (worst in SEC). Opponents are 28/34 on 4th-down conversions against them in the 2nd half.

In comparison, Vanderbilt runs the slowest tempo in the SEC, helping their defense to be on the field for an SEC-low 64.2 snaps per game (SEC #16) and gets 35–40-second vacations between every series.

Result? They have the fewest missed starts in the SEC on defense this year. They’re fresh as hell when everyone else is dead. 4th-quarter defensive PFF grade: 88.7 (1st in SEC). 4th-quarter yards per play allowed: 4.1 (1st in SEC). Opponents are 4/19 on 4th downs in the 2nd half.

There is a domino effect, and complimentary football is a real thing. Jeff Lebby’s gimmick offense has consequences that are hidden to most of our fans who don’t truly understand football. This results in other scapegoats being created. Ex. Hutzler

 

[patdog]

General rule of thumb. If you’re better & deeper than the teams you play, a fast tempo is best. Wear the weaker team down. If you’re not as good or as deep as the teams you play, you should run the play clock down to 5 seconds every snap. Shorten the game so your players don’t get worn out or injured & increase the chance for an upset. Lot easier to upset a better team in a game with 100 total plays than in a game with 150 total plays. So of course Lebby does the opposite.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Ultimately, its a depth issue. You can run 80 plays per game if you have a legit 2-deep on the OL, like Lebby probably had at Oklahoma and maybe even at pre-NIL Ole Miss.

But, nobody has that anymore in the NIL era, so here we are. MSU once again a day late and a dollar short on an offensive trend that will disappear soon.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

We had one OL hurt before the season who is playing through the best he can, another was lost game one. That's about the extent of our injuries. So your ignorant ******** is laughable as hell. The only thing here that's "lactic" is your man tits.

 

[GoDawgz52]

You would think that whomever is over the huge book of analytics would have this info on page 789 and going forward...... but would Lebby listen to him anyway?

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

These are all good points. I do like the fact that Lebby doesn't give the defense time to sub and then he hammers them with quick snaps, which usually result in points. I do believe we could make the tempo more situational.

 

[msstatelp1]

Will the Vandy stats change after Pavia leaves? Their success seems highly based on having him.

 

[8dog]

Some context. 10 of the missed starts are Blake Steen suffering an upper body injury on a FG in the first half of the first game. Reese has missed 4 games. Jimothy 4. Work 1. Mayberry has played all 11. James has played in 10 including the last 10 straight. 3 of our 5 starters have started all 11 games.

So I think the real issue is actually worse: we just aren’t very good on the OL

 

[ckDOG]

General rule of thumb. If you’re better & deeper than the teams you play, a fast tempo is best. Wear the weaker team down. If you’re not as good or as deep as the teams you play, you should run the play clock down to 5 seconds every snap. Shorten the game so your players don’t get worn out or injured & increase the chance for an upset. Lot easier to upset a better team in a game with 100 total plays than in a game with 150 total plays. So of course Lebby does the opposite.

Precisely Pat. Mississippi State level talent should make it a priority to move the chains while eating the clock. The other team can't score when they aren't on the field and it minimizes their opportunities no matter how talented they are.

Combo that with an actual deep and talented defense (something MSU has shown is actually possible) and we can get some decent seasons.

Is this approach flashy? No. I don't care. Losing sucks.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

1. Lebby’s offense for the 2nd straight year is the fastest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 22.2 (SEC #1)

12–20 sec rests → lactic buildup

Plays/Game Offense: 80 (SEC #1)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 4,800–5,500m

Skill-player type loads on linemen → higher strain risk

Lebby’s tempo has directly fueled OL injury spikes again this year with 19 missed starts through Week 12 (SEC #1). Up-tempo amplifies strength and conditioning challenges.

2. On the contrary, Vanderbilt’s huddle-heavy approach is the slowest tempo between plays in the SEC.

Avg. Sec/Play: 29.5 (SEC #16)

35+ sec → better muscle recovery.

Plays/Game Offense: 67 (SEC #16)

High-Intensity Distance (OL/Game, GPS Est: 2,900–3,500m

Traditional OL conditioning suffices.

Vanderbilt’s slower pace has kept them at just 3 missed starts, fewest in the SEC. They have the healthiest OL in the SEC. This emphasizes their strength and conditioning’s role in prevention (ex. fewer sub-25-sec sprints in training). Vanderbilt’s pace avoids late-game fatigue.

I would think our "High-Intensity Distance" would be a lot lower than estimated given our propensity for 3 & outs.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Some context. 10 of the missed starts are Blake Steen suffering an upper body injury on a FG in the first half of the first game. Reese has missed 4 games. Jimothy 4. Work 1. Mayberry has played all 11. James has played in 10 including the last 10 straight. 3 of our 5 starters have started all 11 games.

So I think the real issue is actually worse: we just aren’t very good on the OL

Jimothy could've played too. This is another BS trolling.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

These are all good points. I do like the fact that Lebby doesn't give the defense time to sub and then he hammers them with quick snaps, which usually result in points. I do believe we coul

It is, it's after chunk plays and 1st downs primarily.

 

[josebrown]

Precisely Pat. Mississippi State level talent should make it a priority to move the chains while eating the clock.

That alone in the 4th quarter wins the Texas game.

 

[bulldoghair]

We had one OL hurt before the season who is playing through the best he can, another was lost game one. That's about the extent of our injuries. So your ignorant ******** is laughable as hell. The only thing here that's "lactic" is your man tits.

Some context. 10 of the missed starts are Blake Steen suffering an upper body injury on a FG in the first half of the first game. Reese has missed 4 games. Jimothy 4. Work 1. Mayberry has played all 11. James has played in 10 including the last 10 straight. 3 of our 5 starters have started all 11 games.

So I think the real issue is actually worse: we just aren’t very good on the OL

Last season 2024 Lebby’s offense also had the fastest tempo Avg. Sec/Play and the most miss starts on the OL in the SEC.

This isn’t an outlier season. This is a real measured metric across the board objectively speaking. There are consequences to most everything.
Back in March, our Oline coach said,

“These kids are running more sprints than any line I’ve coached it’s like turning linemen into hybrid athletes. The fatigue factor in fall camp was eye opening; we had to rewrite some of our conditioning protocols.”

Up tempo offensive schemes do cause and correlate to significantly more injuries to offensive linemen, especially lower body soft tissue injuries and overall wear and tear. The data and medical research are now very clear on this. This no laughing matter.

 

[8dog]

Last season 2024 Lebby’s offense also had the fastest tempo Avg. Sec/Play and the most miss starts on the OL in the SEC.

This isn’t an outlier season. This is a real measured metric across the board objectively speaking. There are consequences to most everything.
Back in March, our Oline coach said,

“These kids are running more sprints than any line I’ve coached it’s like turning linemen into hybrid athletes. The fatigue factor in fall camp was eye opening; we had to rewrite some of our conditioning protocols.”

Up tempo offensive schemes do cause and correlate to significantly more injuries to offensive linemen, especially lower body soft tissue injuries and overall wear and tear. The data and medical research are now very clear on this.

The 5 guys that started game 1 in 2024 missed a total of 1 game between them.

 

[patdog]

It is, it's after chunk plays and 1st downs primarily.

We lead the league in least time between snaps. Thats not very situational. Thats most every play.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

We lead the league in least time between snaps. Thats not very situational. Thats most every play.

So an extra 8 secs is going to change it all? Hell no & there are no related injuries on the OL. We've got a talent problem on the OL.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Wait, we're within 2 or 3 secs of several teams, damn boys, yall crazy as hell

 

[Perd Hapley]

Some context. 10 of the missed starts are Blake Steen suffering an upper body injury on a FG in the first half of the first game. Reese has missed 4 games. Jimothy 4. Work 1. Mayberry has played all 11. James has played in 10 including the last 10 straight. 3 of our 5 starters have started all 11 games.

So I think the real issue is actually worse: we just aren’t very good on the OL

None of that explains why the grades get so much worse in the 4th quarter though. And you also named 6 players, then said “3 of 5” have started all 11 games. If Steen’s replacement has played in all 10 games since he was hurt, well, that’s still a 2nd string OL taking first team reps all year.

I think both are problems. We aren’t very good and we aren’t very healthy. How much of a contributor the pace of play is to the injuries seems very debatable. But the more damning thing to me is the 4th quarter performance stuff.

 

[8dog]

None of that explains why the grades get so much worse in the 4th quarter though. And you also named 6 players, then said “3 of 5” have started all 11 games. If Steen’s replacement has played in all 10 games since he was hurt, well, that’s still a 2nd string OL taking first team reps all year.

I think both are problems. We aren’t very good and we aren’t very healthy. How much of a contributor the pace of play is to the injuries seems very debatable. But the more damning thing to me is the 4th quarter performance stuff.

I thought he was talking about the defenses PFF. But regardless I’d imagine most grades get worse in the fourth when teams get tired. But we don’t have nearly enough information in this thread. I think it’s just that we aren’t good more than anything else

Yeah, I get that steens replacement played all year. My point is no one gets hurt in the first half of the first game because of HUNHO. So that injury skews the stats.

 

[bulldoghair]

The 5 guys that started game 1 in 2024 missed a total of 1 game between them.

They missed 3. But total team OL missed 6-8 starts including backups. This is just as crucial of an impact, when you’re trying to run this fast of a tempo all season. You need 9-10 man rotation of high quality guys.

 

[8dog]

They missed 3. But total team OL missed 6-8 starts including backups. This is just as crucial of an impact, when you’re trying to run this fast of a tempo all season. You need 9-10 man rotation of high quality guys.

They missed 1. You can go see it on the participation chart. And I don’t know how we classify a missed start but Pounders got benched for Work.

 

[patdog]

So an extra 8 secs is going to change it all? Hell no & there are no related injuries on the OL. We've got a talent problem on the OL.

8 seconds times 70 plays is about 6 minutes of tome if possession. Yeah. It matters.

 

[bulldoghair]

So an extra 8 secs is going to change it all? Hell no & there are no related injuries on the OL. We've got a talent problem on the OL.

Wait, we're within 2 or 3 secs of several teams, damn boys, yall crazy as hell

Volume vs Recovery is a scientific proven metric. Traditional big-school strength and conditioning is built around 60–70 explosive reps per game + heavy lifting 4×/week.
Up-tempo adds the equivalent of an entire extra game’s worth of sprints every 3–4 weeks. There would be fewer OL injuries if they slowed down by even 4–5 seconds per play based on proven metrics.

 

[Bullldawg78]

So what I'm reading is our head coach is stubborn about his approach. Unable to make adjustments and makes bad decisions in game? I am absolutely stunned, color me surprise!

 

[bulldoghair]

So an extra 8 secs is going to change it all? Hell no & there are no related injuries on the OL. We've got a talent problem on the OL.

8 seconds times 70 plays is about 6 minutes of tome if possession. Yeah. It matters.

That is +190 to +220 extra explosive reps than Vanderbilt in a season. That’s roughly 2.5 to 3 additional full games worth of violent, high-speed reps over a 12-game season.

That is 25,000 to 30,000 additional meters of high-intensity running (GPS data) more than Vanderbilt’s OL over the course of the season. Not to mention the difference in S&C training.

Each of those extra reps fewer seconds of rest. Heart rate stays 90–100 % max for most of the 2nd half → massive lactic acid buildup → more potential for injury. Not to mention those 200–220 more reps are violent engagements with 300-lb defenders.

The 8-second difference in tempo per play is the single biggest reason one offensive line is the healthiest and most dominant in the conference in November while the other is the most injured and least effective. It’s the clearest real world example of the “tempo tax” on the trenches in college football in the SEC.

 

[Darryl Steight]

So an extra 8 secs is going to change it all? Hell no & there are no related injuries on the OL. We've got a talent problem on the OL.

Why not both

 

[bulldoghair]

Why not both

Because he doesn’t want to admit there is a fundamental problem with Jeff Lebby and his fit at Mississippi State.

 

[bulldoghair]

Lets look at the effect and hidden metric of Lebby’s offense on the transfer portal with regards to OL.
In the 2025–26 portal cycle (and the last cycle), veteran offensive linemen, the exact guys who we want and need— are now doing their homework.
That veteran portal lineman is 22–24 years old, has 30–50 college starts, and is trying to protect his NFL draft stock, or at least finish his career healthy. He is asking himself one question:
“Do I want to add the equivalent of 2½–3 extra full games of violent, high-speed reps to my body — reps that come with only 12–18 seconds rest instead of 30+ — when I already have 700–800 college reps on my frame?”
The answer is “Hell no.”
These Veteran offensive linemen in the portal aren’t just glancing at box scores anymore—they’re deep-diving into film, analytics, and listening to agents. Them looking at the +190–220 extra explosive reps at tempo heavy programs like State vs. baseline at slower ones like Vanderbilt is a massive red flag. It’s not abstract math; it’s a visible, quantifiable risk to their bodies, careers, and earnings.
If they don’t say, “He’ll no”, then there is a real thing as a tempo-tax. You pay much more, like 25-40% for a veteran lineman to sign up for a Jeff Lebby tempo offense. Not to mention the domino effect and the same problem for signing the veteran d-lineman. They are now looking at these metrics I can promise you that.

 

[bulldoghair]

These are all good points. I do like the fact that Lebby doesn't give the defense time to sub and then he hammers them with quick snaps, which usually result in points. I do believe we could make the tempo more situational.

Quick snaps to deny defensive substitutions, force mismatches, and pile on points—sounds unstoppable on paper. Quick snaps win shootouts vs. cupcakes, but vs. pros like Texas/Georgia ect it’s just extra reps for the trainer’s table. It’s why our 4-0 non-con burst became a 1-5 SEC skid. Most SEC defenses run “tempo-proof” packages like 4-2-5 nickel from the jump, minimizing sub needs. They stay in base personnel for 70–80% of snaps and sub only on obvious downs (3rd-and-long, 4th-and-short ect). After our 0-4 SEC start, we had averaged 11.7 points allowed per fourth quarter against FBS opponents, 133rd nationally and the worst among power conference teams; outscored 65-37 in SEC 4ths. A few early bursts fade into 3-and-outs, forcing our own defense into the most def. snaps/game in the conference (SEC #1)

 

[The Cooterpoot]

8 seconds times 70 plays is about 6 minutes of tome if possession. Yeah. It matters.

It's 2-3 seconds though, I guess you missed that part

 

[The Cooterpoot]

That is +190 to +220 extra explosive reps than Vanderbilt in a season. That’s roughly 2.5 to 3 additional full games worth of violent, high-speed reps over a 12-game season.

That is 25,000 to 30,000 additional meters of high-intensity running (GPS data) more than Vanderbilt’s OL over the course of the season. Not to mention the difference in S&C training.

Each of those extra reps fewer seconds of rest. Heart rate stays 90–100 % max for most of the 2nd half → massive lactic acid buildup → more potential for injury. Not to mention those 200–220 more reps are violent engagements with 300-lb defenders.

The 8-second difference in tempo per play is the single biggest reason one offensive line is the healthiest and most dominant in the conference in November while the other is the most injured and least effective. It’s the clearest real world example of the “tempo tax” on the trenches in college football in the SEC.

Damn you're ignorant! OM is within 3 seconds of us and it's not hurting them. Now bring your other BS excuses when it's 100% terrible talent on the OL. Our clock management late in games sucks, but it's got zero effect on OL health. You're just rambiing your same stupid troll along.

 

[85Bears]

Lebby is like a chromosomal damaged version of Kiffin