UK was ahead of the curve in renovating Commonwealth Stadium.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...enovation-project-at-ohio-stadium-will-result
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...enovation-project-at-ohio-stadium-will-result
Ohio Stadium to be reduced by 2,600 seats.
- Thread starter clawsowitz
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Gene Smith has taken a page from Barnhart in what he lists as "updates" too. Most people would consider that "maintenance." Almost expected to see "sealed pipes" somwhere in that list.
Ummm, not exactly. UK reduced seating from about 67,000 to about 61,000, almost 10% of an already small (by SEC standards) stadium. tOSU is going from about 105,000 to about 103,000, a loss of about 2% to one of the largest stadiums in the country. The numbers in the article don't add up but no matter what is correct it is a much smaller loss than what CWS took. FWIW, I remain convinced the necessary CWS renovations could have been done without such a dramatic loss of seating. JMO
Peace
Why do people care about the reduced seating? We don't sell out every game so what does it matter?
CWS reduced seating was a smart move. Recruits wont have to see upper corners empty - it just looks bad. You will see how bad 10-15k empty looks soon enough.
It’s a matter of making money. The number of attendees at college football games has been reduced across the US based on two things 1) a weak economy, and 2) high definition televisions. People are staying at home and saving money. Florida used to sell out every home game until about four years ago. Now they are lucky if the fill 80% of their stadium. I realize some of it has to do with the quality of their football team over the past few years also. At FSU, we have had a reduction in attendance also. Many universities are going to the club seat format (like Kentucky). It reduces your overall seats but it puts more money back into the university. The club seats are more expensive than the regular seats. If the university can’t sell all their seats at a game, why not format the seating to make more money.
I think we sold out 6 of our 8 home games last year. UL might have sold out 2 games in a stadium that seats 6k less than ours. I can understand adding more boxes or suites but adding 10k common seats is one of the worst ideas they've ever had. Even in a good season their fans don't show up and in a down year their attendence falls off of the face of the earth
Look you still come over here and want to rail on MB, but yet your ad is adding 10k seats that will almost NEVER have any fannies in them just so you can now say you have a bigger capacity than big brother...IF and when big brother is winning that will all be taken care of...I for one am TOTALLY satisfied with what is taking place facility wise at UK and in about 4-5 months we will have as good or better facilities as ANY school school in the country and all without ***** gate and hiring the most unethical coaches in the country. #GOCATS PS...AND YES THAT INCLUDES YOUR FACILITIES!!!
These people evidently can't figure that when the time comes they can actually ADD on more seats and the students went showing up anyway. We were some of the ones that got displaced and we actually love our new seats
We now are ahead of only Vandy in capacity in the SEC. We soon won't have the largest stadium in our state. We do have sellouts, and I wouldn't be surprised if that number doesn't rise sharply in the near future. The number of seats available IS a number of importance, and a lot of our recruits and commits think they will be able to fill those seats. Go ahead and tell them they are dreaming.
Of course I know the only important number to mitch is how much money he can wring out of football------and yes, the spending now should have been done a decade ago and we wouldn't be years behind in the race now and he couldn't have reduced the capacity, he has done a hell of a job of making the reduction even possible.
Call me when Bama or TU or A&M reduces their seating by 40,000 so their ADs can claim they are as smart as mitch.
And no, I don't think we need a 100,000 seat stadium yet, but we certainly need to be competing with someone besides Vandy for the lowest seating capacity in the SEC.
Of course I know the only important number to mitch is how much money he can wring out of football------and yes, the spending now should have been done a decade ago and we wouldn't be years behind in the race now and he couldn't have reduced the capacity, he has done a hell of a job of making the reduction even possible.
Call me when Bama or TU or A&M reduces their seating by 40,000 so their ADs can claim they are as smart as mitch.
And no, I don't think we need a 100,000 seat stadium yet, but we certainly need to be competing with someone besides Vandy for the lowest seating capacity in the SEC.
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No, I am about 2,000 miles away. But I don't have season tickets to Bama either.
And I never missed a minute of a game while I was at UK, blowout (either way) or not, and that included all the basketball games.
Thats all for now, glad you all are so loving and forgiving of mitch, I still say we wouldn't be in this shape if not for him. But I don't think we are in nearly as bad a shape as some think now that he is doing more than the BARE MINIMUM for football.
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Okay, even with reduced capacity, UK did not sell out of STs last year. They haven't sold out of STs since 2009, IIRC. It would have been fiscally irresponsible for UK to incur the additional cost to maintain the seating levels or increase them during the renovation, especially given the overall decline in attendance for CFB. It IS fiscally responsible for UofL to increase seating when there is absolutely no demand - it's just Jurich's massive, dicky-sheathed ego driving that. If you wanted UK season tickets and weren't able to buy them, then your incessant whining would have more credence. As it is, though... and I'm not sure what Bama has to do with any of this...
I share your frustration, but I think sellouts and fan noise impress recruits more than stadium size. Yes this should have been done years ago, but going forward OUR PLAYERS will have facilities as good or better than ANYWHERE in the country and that is includining at Otis...if this staff can start winning and going to bowl games then in the not so distant future the stadium capacity will be bigger than it was , and I honestly believe that at our best we won't need to be larger than 75-80k...we can't change the past, but sure can the future...have been by the new construction twice in the last couple of weeks and it is going to be awesome and something to be proud of and NOBODY can make fun of or turn their noses up at. Now it it is time to get behind the program and taking the next step and that is WINNING AND we don't have to have scumbag coaches to do it...#COCATS!!!!
We wouldn't be in this shape if not for 60 years of AD's ignoring football. It has MUCH less to do with Mitch than it does all of those before him. You have to remember the national recession that hit in 2002-2003 which was the year that Mitch was hired. The state would not approve large projects like the ones going on right now until the economy stabled
I'm not. But, I think there are a lot of things to be critical about other than reducing the seating capacity of the stadium. It wasn't being used before the reduction and it isn't being used after. If UK was consistently selling out games and annually selling out its allotment of season tickets, then I would be soundly in your corner. I don't think UK will ever average 75-80K for football games. It's just the way it is. Any school expanding their stadium in today's environment not named ALABAMA is completely and totally fiscally irresponsible and driven by motivations other than demand.
This is the right answer...BASKETBALL ADS like CM (get his name off the stadium) Newton and Cliff Hagan are the main reasons for this mess on a much bigger scale than MB...everything is now in place and hoping this staff works out. That is my biggest worry and issue.
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Baylor's new state of the art stadium seats roughly 45,000. They can increase capacity to a bit over 50,000 if needed. The last I checked they were a top ten program.
Reduced seating was terrible idea. UL will grow can base by selling cheap tix on game day and letting elem. schools in to games. UK and MB too stupid to see this. No vision of future and no faith UK can win big. I know UK can. Just have to recruit and COACH them. Stoops may be the guy given enough time
I think you nailed the real problem. Sometime years ago the AD at UK decided BB was going to be their thing. Why who knows, maybe because Kentucky has harsher winters than the other teams in the original SEC and more time was spent inside playing BB than outside, could have been population or anything. It worked, UK was the bright star of SEC BB and from that point on the AD made it his/her focus and had football as a distraction. Just an outsider's opinion, but BB has always been more important to UK than it has the other SEC schools, that's not a secret.
A neighbor now deceased was a 1940 UK grad. He told me once UK football "wasn't much good" in those days either. Looking back UK was poor to mediocre in football in all but the initial years the sport was played in the south. If Adolph Rupp hadn't been hired in the 20s to continue and build a basketball dynasty, all other UK sports continued to be average at best. In the 1946 UK yearbook, it is noted hiring Paul Bryant ended thirty odd years of football mediocrity. In the 60s, UK AD Bernie Shively chose Charlie Bradshaw over Jerry Claiborne after the university gently pushed Blanton Collier out the door. Bradshaw failed badly and 60 years of UK mediocrity, probation and an occasional positive year or two followed. Meanwhile, SEC schools emphasized football with every resource (legal and illegal) to build programs that became the incredibly popular and successful (and over the top) league in the history of college football. UK remains far behind the rest of the league, but attempting to catch up. To succeed, this will take longer than any of us imagine.
I'm not sure it is a good idea to only have season ticket holders with tickets, are you? Don't we need to create new fans? And I'm not sure if his numbers are right but didn't another poster say 6 of 8 games last year were sellouts------with a pretty poor record, no bowl game? If we only had three sellouts next year wouldn't that be 18,000 more tickets sold, whether they all show up or not? Isn't UL a home game next year, isn't that a sellout whether it is all our fans or not?
Bama has to do with it because they are an example of a program that recognized the coming MONEY COW and used their football profits to improve it, they cleared SIXTY MILLION on football last year, and their other sports LOST TWENTY MILLION------UK has the advantage of a basketball program that rakes in millions more than any other SEC team and still had a recruiting budget LESS for 25 (or more) football recruits than UK basketball had for about FIVE basketball recruits (less before Cal), does that make any sense when you see the profit football makes compared to basketball------even if it is the best program in the nation. Operating budget for EIGHTY FIVE players about the same as for THIRTEEN players in basketball, before the strike.
I can agree with you on jurich though, not sure why you capitalize his name though, to me that is a sign of respect.
LOL, not sure what your link was supposed to be to but it takes me back to one of your posts, the link I was looking for was one saying that UK football is forever going to be miserable, isn't that what you were saying? Didn't the 07 team sell out all of their games with a team that DIDN'T break even in the SEC? And I think we will be breaking even or even much better pretty soon now that we are getting more than two and three stars.
Link was exactly what it was meant to be.
And where did I ever say UK football was to be forever miserable? Lmao...
ive seen the recent attendance ups and downs...the reduced seating brings a better atmosphere and looks better. 61k with zero empties looks a lot better than 65k with 5k empties...if you want to jump back in when the team starts winning, good luck....but we still have our season tickets and weren't hurt by the reduction.
Yes, true, but the HUGE increase in football popularity, not just in person but the cause of the OBSCENE TV contracts (if you are in a great conference-----and we are, for better or worse-----better money, worse record) has happened primarily during mitch's reign------and he ignored it as long as he could, (longer really) while our Rivals were jumping on the bandwagon------hell, even Vandy tried to get involved.
Read the thread on here about spending vs income and you will see that while the data is very confusing it looks like Vandy is ahead of us in football spending (how is that even possible?) and we are only ahead of the two Misses in spending, and that is offset by them having TEN (probably more) times the in state talent we have. If that is recent data then I would hate to see our spending while Brooks and Joker were trying to compete in the SEC.
A really smart AD should have recognized what a great investment football is long before he let us fall years behind everyone else. He could have had a LOT more money to spend on his minor sports if he had given football, one of the best investments around, more of the money they EARNED instead of bleeding it dry-----resulting in the strike that cost UK millions AND thousands of diehard season ticket holders that are going to be hard to get away from their 51" HD TVs, when almost every game (if not all) is televised.
I played in flag football leagues into my forties, started and ran about five leagues that I played in, and started officiating when I was 31 and did that for 33 years until I moved, and there is only one thing better (my opinion) than watching a game with your team in person------and that is being on the field yourself.. Recorded and watched hundreds of games while "working" and that isn't bad (if you avoid the final score) but the best way possible is to see the game in person and then replay it to answer all your questions and check the officials "mistakes" in slow mo. Amazing sometimes how a lot of those mistakes weren't mistakes after all.
Maybe so about UL but it hasn't worked so far. No more fans today than they ever had.
More so till they got a payoff of a science building at no cost to them.
Yep, more than 5 players/team on playing surface & so many KY people don't know what it is.
It was a dumb link then------nobody needed to read that twice.
This is where you said UK football was forever to be miserable: "You will see how bad 10-15k empty looks soon enough."
Don't you even know what you said? The 07 team with a losing record in the SEC sold out every game, with a starting OL that averaged LESS than a 5.2 (next year we could average OVER a four star if needed, in 17 if we get Wills possibly over a 5.9------as good or better than Bama's average this year------not the depth though), we had a 5.8 QB and will have a 5.9 this year (Woodson wasn't good as a RS soph either), a 5.6 RB vs a 5.9 and another four star (plus depth, in 07 we had two star Dixon and 5.2 Locke. After beating NC LSU we lost to Florida by 8 when Little was out), two 5.5s (very late) WRs with a two star JC and a FOUR POINT NINE in Lyons versus several four star AND other underrated WRs.
Boom and Conrad should be worth the price of admission alone, and with the support they are going to have they won't be all the show either, we had a ONE man show when Cobb was here.
If that team with that raw talent could fill the stadium for even the gimmes then this talent should never see close to 10,000 empty seats, let over 15,000, UK averaged OVER 67,000 that year I believe.
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Not so, UK has a great football fan base, they have just been starved and ignored way too long. Watch the difference when we start winning, and we will with the talent we are attracting now or the talent (and blueprint) Stoops will leave a new coach if he doesn't get competitive in the next two years.
You do realize that UK hasn't had a winning SEC record since Curci cheated, don't you? And only three BREAK EVEN seasons since then, only ONE in the 21st century, in 06, not 07. And the 07 team AVERAGED how many in attendance for every game?
If this relatively small state can recruit enough talent to consistently be the best basketball program in the nation we can at least be competitive in the SEC in football, MUCH better than breaking even in the conference every TEN years------and I think most football fans would consider that a great blessing compared to what we have been through. We aren't spoiled like the Georgia fans that fire a coach with ten wins------our usual firings take place after three or four win seasons-------sometimes two.
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Do you know that I quoted a UL fan in that post? Do you know the 10-15k seats was in reference to ULs expansion?
And for the record, I go to the games...I see the turnouts. The reduction was a smart thing for UK to do. Made the experience and atmosphere much better.
jauk - I usually like your posts but I cannot follow your logic and understand your current beef. UK isn't Alabama. UK isn't going to be Alabama. There isn't another school in the country like Alabama. Did UK screw up letting Bear go to TAMU - yes. But that was before I was even alive. Has UK completely neglected football and siphoned off funds for basketball and non-revenue sports - you bet, and they are still doing it. But, these things are not going to change overnight. I am happy they are at least trying to invest in football. One thing that gives me hope that they will remain committed is that they have a $175 million albatross around their neck. They have to service that debt. SEC TV revenue money will likely be just enough to service it on an annual basis, but that is money that could be going to the sacred cow and other programs if football was pulling its weight. So, they desperately need football to be successful, and this is the first time that has been the case.
There is no "desperation." SEC money was around $525 million in 2015 and projected to gross $650 million this year. Donations to the football program are at an all time high. This is a process to become competitive in the SEC. It will take time. Whatever occurred last year that resulted in a 5-7 record instead of 7-5 or better was badly disappointing to us all. We fans have a choice to support the program or continue wasting energy pointing out the past. It would be I all our best interest to support the program in my opinion. The team and coaches need us to be there for them. Why not?
Good post, and I agree with all of it, I didn't say UK was going to become Bama in football, BUT we can become very competitive in the SEC, and I think most of our fans would be happy with that. But TWO SEC wins isn't going to do it. As I pointed our, we averaged over 67,000 fans a full season with a team that didn't break even in the SEC, and we can do a hell of a lot better than 61,000 fans with a team that is competitive.
We should be able to break even in the SEC on a consistent basis, and even upset a team like Bama occasionally-----with Hartline at QB we could have beat them AT Bama without the one dumb fumble, and the next year with the right call when Johnson stuffed their Heisman winner on the goal line we could have been in contention. if we get the two points and a cheap field goal with the KO from the 20 they don't have time to march 99 PLUS yards for the TD AND get the cheap turnover for another TD. That is a 17 points difference, and they didn't win by 17. Of course that is the old iffen game, and they play better if behind at the half------but maybe we play inspired with the lead, I have seen that also.
What we can do is occasionally have better players than Bama at some positions, like Boom, Conrad, Young, Wills, etc, and maybe even etc etc with our new recruiting, and even underrated players like AA, Johnson, etc of they progress, players worth paying to see play, and capable of beating even teams like Bama occasionally. And if we can beat them, who knows. I am even beginning to believe we can out talent them at a BIG multi man position like OL, if things go right, what a difference that would make.
A fine point about the football program obligating itself for about $200,000,000 when they couldn't replace the folding chairs in the "recruiting room" (that was pure BS. no excuse for it) before, (the one Tee lied to recruits about), that was an insult to our whole program.
Im conflicted on Mitchs football prowess. Its almost like he works in spurts. He was really trying with Rich and I think he was a bit hog tied. I dont think he tried with Joker. Now he appears all in with Stoops so hopefully were ebbing upwards. That being said if money were his goal more seats is the answer. There is a reason why urban schools with lower attendance like Miami and U of L have no interest in subtracting seats. Corporate spending in those areas on sporting events guarantees MANY seats will be sold. Now who knows if they will be filled and some of them might go for 5 bucks each but at the end of the day thats 5 bucks times say 5k tickets. 25k a week would have netted an extra 500k on the season last year for us. Thats a million every 5 years your losing out on. Not counting any concessions that may be bought if the tickets are used. Im holding off judgement though to see how it all pans out. Louisville has the distinct position of being the only game in town in a fairly decent sized city. Miami doesnt have the same luxury as they are competing with a lot of pro teams but they get their fair share of "free money". Only costs the price of a stamp to mail out tickets, cash is in the bank...use em or lose em. If the seats are empty no sweat off the schools back. Again, we arent in a city the size of Louisville and have nowhere near the corporate base to draw from it might be wiser for us to do cut back as opposed to others.
FickusDuckus said: ↑
Im conflicted on Mitchs football prowess. Its almost like he works in spurts. He was really trying with Rich and I think he was a bit hog tied. I dont think he tried with Joker. Now he appears all in with Stoops so hopefully were ebbing upwards. That being said if money were his goal more seats is the answer. There is a reason why urban schools with lower attendance like Miami and U of L have no interest in subtracting seats. Corporate spending in those areas on sporting events guarantees MANY seats will be sold. Now who knows if they will be filled and some of them might go for 5 bucks each but at the end of the day thats 5 bucks times say 5k tickets. 25k a week would have netted an extra 500k on the season last year for us. Thats a million every 5 years your losing out on. Not counting any concessions that may be bought if the tickets are used. Im holding off judgement though to see how it all pans out. Louisville has the distinct position of being the only game in town in a fairly decent sized city. Miami doesnt have the same luxury as they are competing with a lot of pro teams but they get their fair share of "free money". Only costs the price of a stamp to mail out tickets, cash is in the bank...use em or lose em. If the seats are empty no sweat off the schools back. Again, we arent in a city the size of Louisville and have nowhere near the corporate base to draw from it might be wiser for us to do cut back as opposed to others.
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I'm not sure you have the right slant on mitch, I think he is still all about the money. I think the general consensus is that there is a lot more money in the box seats for the elite than the individual seats for the peons. And mitch has always been partial to the high end donars, with little time for the small donars. Those boxes cost the same whether anyone is in them or not, although since they are probably used for comps primarily no reason they shouldn't find fans that want them. But I don't see a lot of noise and cheers coming from there, not sure a successful businessman will be jumping up and down and cheering like a lot younger folk. In fact I'm not even sure they are all open to the stadium, are they? Probably some business deals being discussed in there also, corporations aren't just throwing money away.
Im conflicted on Mitchs football prowess. Its almost like he works in spurts. He was really trying with Rich and I think he was a bit hog tied. I dont think he tried with Joker. Now he appears all in with Stoops so hopefully were ebbing upwards. That being said if money were his goal more seats is the answer. There is a reason why urban schools with lower attendance like Miami and U of L have no interest in subtracting seats. Corporate spending in those areas on sporting events guarantees MANY seats will be sold. Now who knows if they will be filled and some of them might go for 5 bucks each but at the end of the day thats 5 bucks times say 5k tickets. 25k a week would have netted an extra 500k on the season last year for us. Thats a million every 5 years your losing out on. Not counting any concessions that may be bought if the tickets are used. Im holding off judgement though to see how it all pans out. Louisville has the distinct position of being the only game in town in a fairly decent sized city. Miami doesnt have the same luxury as they are competing with a lot of pro teams but they get their fair share of "free money". Only costs the price of a stamp to mail out tickets, cash is in the bank...use em or lose em. If the seats are empty no sweat off the schools back. Again, we arent in a city the size of Louisville and have nowhere near the corporate base to draw from it might be wiser for us to do cut back as opposed to others.
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I'm not sure you have the right slant on mitch, I think he is still all about the money. I think the general consensus is that there is a lot more money in the box seats for the elite than the individual seats for the peons. And mitch has always been partial to the high end donars, with little time for the small donars. Those boxes cost the same whether anyone is in them or not, although since they are probably used for comps primarily no reason they shouldn't find fans that want them. But I don't see a lot of noise and cheers coming from there, not sure a successful businessman will be jumping up and down and cheering like a lot younger folk. In fact I'm not even sure they are all open to the stadium, are they? Probably some business deals being discussed in there also, corporations aren't just throwing money away.
No, I didn't, my bad. Makes quite a difference, doesn't it? Sorry.
But I myself would prefer more actual fans cheering for my Cats.
So Jauk you'd rather have had a 70k seat stadium with no recruiting area and no football practice facility? Because you couldn't have gotten both for the same amount of money. We would have had to expand the footprint of the stadium. Which means no money for the football practice facility, which btw is what the recruits are really excited about. Where they work everyday, not the stadium.
The need for upgrades happened around the time the economy went south and the ky legislature has had no problem denying UK's ability to start new construction projects. You act like Mitch can just do something on his own. He can't, we are a public university and there is a process.
I want a winning program, could care less about the size of the stadium. If we start winning and there arises a need for more seats, it will happen. But right now, it's pretty easy to get tickets to games and I bet anyone who wants to can get season tickets right now.
Please stop comparing us to the biggest programs. You realize what kind of fanbase and many that TAMU has? You think the state of Texas has a bit more money than Kentucky? Does TAMU have to go through the same process to get money that UK does? Do a little research instead of whining because UL spends money like a drunken sailor.
The need for upgrades happened around the time the economy went south and the ky legislature has had no problem denying UK's ability to start new construction projects. You act like Mitch can just do something on his own. He can't, we are a public university and there is a process.
I want a winning program, could care less about the size of the stadium. If we start winning and there arises a need for more seats, it will happen. But right now, it's pretty easy to get tickets to games and I bet anyone who wants to can get season tickets right now.
Please stop comparing us to the biggest programs. You realize what kind of fanbase and many that TAMU has? You think the state of Texas has a bit more money than Kentucky? Does TAMU have to go through the same process to get money that UK does? Do a little research instead of whining because UL spends money like a drunken sailor.
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