OK guys, a chance to weigh in on Keystone and Dakota - Trump approved but with a catch

[WVPATX]

Both pipelines have been approved (Manchin praised Trump) but with a catch. Both pipelines must use U.S. steel.

Regardless of how you feel about the pipelines, do you support Trump's use of leverage to get them to use American steel?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/watch-the-moment-trump-saved-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-video/

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Both pipelines have been approved (Manchin praised Trump) but with a catch. Both pipelines must use U.S. steel.

Regardless of how you feel about the pipelines, do you support Trump's use of leverage to get them to use American steel?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/watch-the-moment-trump-saved-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-video/

I'm fine with it.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Both pipelines have been approved (Manchin praised Trump) but with a catch. Both pipelines must use U.S. steel.

Regardless of how you feel about the pipelines, do you support Trump's use of leverage to get them to use American steel?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/watch-the-moment-trump-saved-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-video/

OK with pipelines, not so much with US Steel. Sounds like socialism to me.

 

[op2]

Whether you like it or not is one thing but just to be clear that is not the usual Republican free market approach where government interference with industry is considered a bad thing.

 

[WVPATX]

Whether you like it or not is one thing but just to be clear that is not the usual Republican free market approach where government interference with industry is considered a bad thing.

Couldn't agree more. I have posted many times that Trump is upsetting both the liberal elite and the conservative elite. You're exactly right.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

I don't think Trump can approve it at the drop of the hat. I think the regulatory process was re-opened, meaning additional consultation, vetting and reviews are required.

 

[Mntneer]

OK with pipelines, not so much with US Steel. Sounds like socialism to me.

 

[Boomboom521]

Let's hear it for the right wingers sticking with their values!!!! I like it, and respect the hell out of it.

But my liberal *** doesn't like either.

 

[WVPATX]

I don't think Trump can approve it at the drop of the hat. I think the regulatory process was re-opened, meaning additional consultation, vetting and reviews are required.

You may be right with Dakota, especially since it is located on Indian territory, but I think he can approve Keystone since it was a State Department decision that he can reverse with his pen. If it were a regulatory decision, it might have to go through more hearings. Just a guess on my part.

 

[WVPATX]

Let's hear it for the right wingers sticking with their values!!!! I like it, and respect the hell out of it.

But my liberal *** doesn't like either.

I am very surprised. Not that you don't like pipelines (even though these will contribute zero to global warming). I am surprised because you tend to like government intervention and I would have thought especially if it helps American manufacturing workers.

 

[atlkvb]

Both pipelines have been approved (Manchin praised Trump) but with a catch. Both pipelines must use U.S. steel.

Regardless of how you feel about the pipelines, do you support Trump's use of leverage to get them to use American steel?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/watch-the-moment-trump-saved-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-video/

I support the concept PAX, but not the restriction. Fact is there are just not many cost effective U.S. steel suppliers right now. Do we need to improve the regulatory and tax environment to encourage more cost effective domestic steel production? Absolutely!

But the relatively small number of American steel manufacturers who right now can fill the demand for the XL pipeline as well as others needed is still small, and as a result quite expensive.

I'd like to see that pipeline constructed as cheaply as possible using steel where we currently get it from (China mostly) while we rebuild U.S. steel manufacturing capability by relaxing taxes and regulations on domestic steel producers.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I support the concept PAX, but not the restriction. Fact is there are just not many cost effective U.S. steel suppliers right now. Do we need to improve the regulatory and tax environment to encourage more cost effective domestic steel production? Absolutely!

But the relatively small number of American steel manufacturers who right now can fill the demand for the XL pipeline as well as others needed is still small, and as a result quite expensive.

I'd like to see that pipeline constructed as cheaply as possible using steel where we currently get it from (China mostly) while we rebuild U.S. steel manufacturing capability by relaxing taxes and regulations on domestic steel producers.

I see it as getting a jump start on reigniting the Steel industry. I also see it as a longer term strategy of pinpricking or leveraging the Chinese for future negotiation and action. He's flexing and showing what he is prepared to do. At the micro level as a Republican, I don't like it. If what i surmised above as being part of longer term strategy for leverage, I'm good with it.

Bottom line. He made campaign promises and is standing by them for the American worker. For that, I respect the move.

 

[WVPATX]

I support the concept PAX, but not the restriction. Fact is there are just not many cost effective U.S. steel suppliers right now. Do we need to improve the regulatory and tax environment to encourage more cost effective domestic steel production? Absolutely!

But the relatively small number of American steel manufacturers who right now can fill the demand for the XL pipeline as well as others needed is still small, and as a result quite expensive.

I'd like to see that pipeline constructed as cheaply as possible using steel where we currently get it from (China mostly) while we rebuild U.S. steel manufacturing capability by relaxing taxes and regulations on domestic steel producers.

I understand, you a traditional conservative and they are repulsed by this restriction. I am conservative but with a populist bent especially about rebuilding the middle class with good paying jobs.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

You may be right with Dakota, especially since it is located on Indian territory, but I think he can approve Keystone since it was a State Department decision that he can reverse with his pen. If it were a regulatory decision, it might have to go through more hearings. Just a guess on my part.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, I meant Dakota. I know very little about Keystone.

 

[WVUBRU]

I see it as getting a jump start on reigniting the Steel industry. I also see it as a longer term strategy of pinpricking or leveraging the Chinese for future negotiation and action. He's flexing and showing what he is prepared to do. At the micro level as a Republican, I don't like it. If what i surmised above as being part of longer term strategy for leverage, I'm good with it.

Bottom line. He made campaign promises and is standing by them for the American worker. For that, I respect the move.

Very logical, honest and reasonable perspective and commentary. Well done.

 

[bornaneer]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, I meant Dakota. I know very little about Keystone.

Why are we making exceptions for the Indians?

 

[WVPATX]

I see it as getting a jump start on reigniting the Steel industry. I also see it as a longer term strategy of pinpricking or leveraging the Chinese for future negotiation and action. He's flexing and showing what he is prepared to do. At the micro level as a Republican, I don't like it. If what i surmised above as being part of longer term strategy for leverage, I'm good with it.

Bottom line. He made campaign promises and is standing by them for the American worker. For that, I respect the move.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He is showing just how he will employ leverage. He did that in all his businesses. I think he tries to do the same now. The U.S. is the biggest consumer nation on the planet. We have the most powerful military force. These are huge assets. Buyers almost always have leverage. And countries in need of U.S. help and protection are exposed to Trump's leverage strategy. I think this is a very small example of his overall strategy.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Why are we making exceptions for the Indians?

We're not making exceptions. It was legally challenged that the regulatory process wasn't properly followed to begin with. It is my understanding that the process has been re-opened.

 

[bornaneer]

Very logical, honest and reasonable perspective and commentary. Well done.

WTF is going on with this board today?

 

[WVUBRU]

WTF is going on with this board today?

I have no idea but several people have shared some very good perspectives imo.

 

[WVPATX]

Why are we making exceptions for the Indians?

It is their land. But the actual story is much longer and why I may be wrong. The proposed pipeline went through all the regulatory hurdles. Public hearings. Notice periods. The Tribe never objected as required by law. The pipeline was approved. Then the protests started and the Tribe complained. They claimed they objected just not exactly the way the law required. Obama relented and stopped the project.

I don't know if Trump can just sign an order to get it started again or not. The Army Corps of Engineers is supposed to be evaluating it from an environmental impact assessment. However, there is a neighboring pipeline very close to this proposed route. Tough sledding for the Corps to deny this one, if they are still involved.

 

[WVPATX]

I have no idea but several people have shared some very good perspectives imo.

I'm telling you, one day Trump will tick off liberals, the next day, he will tick off conservatives. It's going to be a strange 4 years.

 

[bornaneer]

We're not making exceptions. It was legally challenged that the regulatory process wasn't properly followed to begin with. It is my understanding that the process has been re-opened.

It was meant as sarcasm...I was only trying to stir it up. Way too much agreement on this board today......Thanks President Trump.

 

[Boomboom521]

I am very surprised. Not that you don't like pipelines (even though these will contribute zero to global warming). I am surprised because you tend to like government intervention and I would have thought especially if it helps American manufacturing workers.

I don't like government intervention that helps business. Not that I like government intervention that hurts business, unless necessary. Business does fine all on its own. I think the American worker should adapt and overcome naturally with the only government intervention being help in regard to transition, health coverage, education and protection of rights.

 

[WVUBRU]

I'm telling you, one day Trump will tick off liberals, the next day, he will tick off conservatives. It's going to be a strange 4 years.

You may be right but i want what is best for the country and from my perspective he will fail miserably. Plus, I firmly believe he is on a path to impeachment and not see four years if he doesn't do certain things pretty fast. Again, just opinion and is certainly open to disagreement.

 

[WVPATX]

I don't like government intervention that helps business. Not that I like government intervention that hurts business, unless necessary. Business does fine all on its own. I think the American worker should adapt and overcome naturally with the only government intervention being help in regard to transition, health coverage, education and protection of rights.

What do you have against business? Secondly, government approval is required of all pipelines, this is no different. So if the government approves that must mean they like the project and it is good, in their opinion, for the country.

Let me ask you a question. Many miners that lost their jobs making over $100K per year and are middle aged or older, how do they transition? How do they get jobs that pay that much to take care of their families and in many cases, extended families. Do you force them to move? If so, what if they don't want to. What if they have lived there all their lives?

I don't mind if a business goes bankrupt based on competition. That's the free market. But when a government issues orders destroying that industry for a theory that is unproven and in any event only reduced global warming by .001%, then I have real problems because real people's lives were greatly damaged.

 

[WVPATX]

You may be right but i want what is best for the country and from my perspective he will fail miserably. Plus, I firmly believe he is on a path to impeachment and not see four years if he doesn't do certain things pretty fast. Again, just opinion and is certainly open to disagreement.

I felt exactly the same way about Obama, minus the impeachment. Oh, and the liberal hope for impeachment is WAY overblown. He is in office for at least 4 years.

 

[bornaneer]

You may be right but i want what is best for the country and from my perspective he will fail miserably. Plus, I firmly believe he is on a path to impeachment and not see four years if he doesn't do certain things pretty fast. Again, just opinion and is certainly open to disagreement.

I don't think he will be impeached but I wonder if he will last four years. I'm not sure he can relax enough in this job when he cannot get the things done that he wants. . It would not surprise me to see him pack it in early.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I don't like government intervention that helps business. Not that I like government intervention that hurts business, unless necessary. Business does fine all on its own. I think the American worker should adapt and overcome naturally with the only government intervention being help in regard to transition, health coverage, education and protection of rights.

This is not some government intervention that hurts business....this is a massive federal government dictating to private industry. America is the new China? The Trump cucks can spin it all they want but this ********.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I don't think he will be impeached but I wonder if he will last four years. I'm not sure he can relax enough in this job when he cannot get the things done that he wants. . It would not surprise me to see him pack it in earlier.

Agreed and I saw that other thread with everyone penciling him in to run in 2020. I figure there are better odds that he doesn't tun in 2020....regardless of this term goes.

 

[WVPATX]

This is not some government intervention that hurts business....this is a massive federal government dictating to private industry. America is the new China? The Trump cucks can spin it all they want but this ********.

I completely understand your perspective on Trump forcing the use of American steel. Most conservatives no doubt agree.

But government has been involved in business forever. Not just government regulations, but government incentives. Why favor some industries over others. It happens all the time. Subsidies to favored industries. Tax credits to favored industries. It happens in our lives. Tax incentives to have children, or buy a home. It is not like this is something brand new. But I admit, Trump is taking it a step further.

 

[rog1187]

I have no idea but several people have shared some very good perspectives imo.

Thanks to President Trump no doubt.

 

[TarHeelEer]

OK with pipelines, not so much with US Steel. Sounds like socialism to me.

You're a liberal what would you know?

 

[Boomboom521]

What do you have against business? Secondly, government approval is required of all pipelines, this is no different. So if the government approves that must mean they like the project and it is good, in their opinion, for the country.

Let me ask you a question. Many miners that lost their jobs making over $100K per year and are middle aged or older, how do they transition? How do they get jobs that pay that much to take care of their families and in many cases, extended families. Do you force them to move? If so, what if they don't want to. What if they have lived there all their lives?

I don't mind if a business goes bankrupt based on competition. That's the free market. But when a government issues orders destroying that industry for a theory that is unproven and in any event only reduced global warming by .001%, then I have real problems because real people's lives were greatly damaged.

Again....we differ on climate change....let's just leave it at that

 

[WVPATX]

Again....we differ on climate change....let's just leave it at that

But what do you hate about business?

And what would you say to those miners that I described? These are real world situations.

And why destroy that industry over a .001% impact on global warming? It makes zero sense. And the impact came directly from the EPA.

 

[roadtrasheer]

As a pipeline welder I can guarantee you American pipe & fittings is 2nd to none in quality. We have to log country of origin on welds that involve imported steel .
I've welded on bare steel pipe put in the ground back in the 40's that welded better than new pipe ..

 

[atlkvb]

I understand, you a traditional conservative and they are repulsed by this restriction. I am conservative but with a populist bent especially about rebuilding the middle class with good paying jobs.

I understand and I'm with you on rebuilding the middle class, but it's a dangerous slippery slope and an unwanted precedent I don't think we Conservatives really want to establish allowing the Government the ability to dictate who or where we buy from.

I am for American companies, American manufacturing, American workers...I get all of that. I just don't want the Government telling us who we can buy from, or making us buy from whoever they choose to pick while limiting our options to make those choices for ourselves.

Guess that's just the purist in me? I get what Trump is trying to do, just don't support that 100% as a way to keep Government limited. They already control too much of our Free market, don't want to encourage them anymore.

 

[WVPATX]

I understand and I'm with you on rebuilding the middle class, but it's a dangerous slippery slope and an unwanted precedent I don't think we Conservatives really want to establish allowing the Government the ability to dictate who or where we buy from.

I am for American companies, American manufacturing, American workers...I get all of that. I just don't want the Government telling us who we can buy from, or making us buy from whoever they choose to pick while limiting our options to make those choices for ourselves.

Guess that's just the purist in me? I get what Trump is trying to do, just don't support that 100% as a way to keep Government limited. They already control too much of our Free market, don't want to encourage them anymore.

Hey, I completely understand.

 

[atlkvb]

This is not some government intervention that hurts business....this is a massive federal government dictating to private industry.

You and I probably don't agree on much WVUCOOPER, but I'm with you on this one. I do not want the Government telling us what we can buy, or who we can buy it from. If it's too expensive here, build it cheaper or make it cheaper.

Now if we are making it just as cheaply here as they do in China, then buy it here. But don't force companies to buy something here that they can purchase cheaper overseas.

We do need to help American companies make it cheaper here...and I'm not for buying subsidized Chinese Steel...but all things being equal, I'm willing to let companies buy the steel wherever their costs meet their expenses. No Government mandates.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

As a pipeline welder I can guarantee you American pipe & fittings is 2nd to none in quality. We have to log country of origin on welds that involve imported steel .
I've welded on bare steel pipe put in the ground back in the 40's that welded better than new pipe ..

Before I gave the thumbs up on this I did check to see if there were any companies actually making the kind of pipe needed. American Pipe was one of three that I could easily identify as having that capability along with US Steel and another. Good to hear that the quality is in the product. I say move forward and let the US manufacturers bid the pipe. At least there would be competition even if it is only domestic product.