On the OB situation

[randystewart]

Are we really about to find ourselves in a situation where the Rebs lose out on a few recruits and start an all out effort to have a coach fired. I am not disputing that Samsel might have a hardon against Ole Miss, but some of the rumors from the UM faithful are drastically inflated black helicopter type ****. Is the arrogance in Oxford that high, that it must be some vast conspiracy if UM misses on a recruit to Auburn or Bama? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have not seen an effort amongst MSU big wigs to have Hall fired at MC.
Also, I know a high school coach has some influence on their players, but if I were a recruit I just don't think my high school coach would decide where I signed for college.

 

[randystewart]

Are we really about to find ourselves in a situation where the Rebs lose out on a few recruits and start an all out effort to have a coach fired. I am not disputing that Samsel might have a hardon against Ole Miss, but some of the rumors from the UM faithful are drastically inflated black helicopter type ****. Is the arrogance in Oxford that high, that it must be some vast conspiracy if UM misses on a recruit to Auburn or Bama? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have not seen an effort amongst MSU big wigs to have Hall fired at MC.
Also, I know a high school coach has some influence on their players, but if I were a recruit I just don't think my high school coach would decide where I signed for college.

 

[randystewart]

Are we really about to find ourselves in a situation where the Rebs lose out on a few recruits and start an all out effort to have a coach fired. I am not disputing that Samsel might have a hardon against Ole Miss, but some of the rumors from the UM faithful are drastically inflated black helicopter type ****. Is the arrogance in Oxford that high, that it must be some vast conspiracy if UM misses on a recruit to Auburn or Bama? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have not seen an effort amongst MSU big wigs to have Hall fired at MC.
Also, I know a high school coach has some influence on their players, but if I were a recruit I just don't think my high school coach would decide where I signed for college.

 

[randystewart]

Are we really about to find ourselves in a situation where the Rebs lose out on a few recruits and start an all out effort to have a coach fired. I am not disputing that Samsel might have a hardon against Ole Miss, but some of the rumors from the UM faithful are drastically inflated black helicopter type ****. Is the arrogance in Oxford that high, that it must be some vast conspiracy if UM misses on a recruit to Auburn or Bama? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have not seen an effort amongst MSU big wigs to have Hall fired at MC.
Also, I know a high school coach has some influence on their players, but if I were a recruit I just don't think my high school coach would decide where I signed for college.

 

[gdogg]

75% of the boosters are MSU graduates. Like I said, it would take a coordinated effort but it could be done.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Are we really about to find ourselves in a situation where the Rebs lose out on a few recruits and start an all out effort to have a coach fired. I am not disputing that Samsel might have a hardon against Ole Miss, but some of the rumors from the UM faithful are drastically inflated black helicopter type ****. Is the arrogance in Oxford that high, that it must be some vast conspiracy if UM misses on a recruit to Auburn or Bama? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have not seen an effort amongst MSU big wigs to have Hall fired at MC.
Also, I know a high school coach has some influence on their players, but if I were a recruit I just don't think my high school coach would decide where I signed for college.

No, you're finding a situation where the coaches are completely shut out by the high school coach, letters are thrown away, calls aren't returned, camp invitations and offers aren't forwarded, etc.

And no, this isn't a conspiracy. I know someone who was directly involved in setting up a private get together between Nutt and Samsel to try to give them a chance to smooth things over, and Samsel wouldn't budge.

And what Hall does at MC is not near what Samsel is doing at OB. Encouraging your players to go somewhere is one thing. Trying to prevent access to your players from a certain school is another altogether. I'm pretty sure that Mullen's offers to the MC players were not blocked, and I'm sure that his efforts to invite MC players to his camps were extended. I also am pretty sure that Mullen was allowed to visit MC and have access to their players when he needed it.

As far as the recruits are concerned, you have to understand that the majority of the kids Samsel is controlling are kids that are from inner-city Memphis, a lot of which have very little male influence in their life other than their football coach. It's an upbringing that's most likely a lot different from the one you had.

It's bad enough that our staff is considering completely avoiding recruiting OB anymore, because it's a wasted effort. It's been covered a million times, and yes there are a lot of conspiracy theories. This is not one of them.

 

[chew1095]

75% of the boosters are MSU graduates. Like I said, it would take a coordinated effort but it could be done.

I hope you are right, but like I stated in another thread on this subject, Bobby Hall's man-love for Houston Dale reads like a sordid tabloid newstandhomo-erotic stalker story.

Its like the french horn player in the band wanting to nail the head cheerleader.

 

[dawgatUSM]

Bobby Hall steers to OM... Samsel steers away from OM. So, it's the same dang thing. Your bias is the only difference.

 

[randystewart]

it sets a very bad precedent to go about things the way that it is currently being approached. If ANY college in the state succeeds in having a coach run off, then what does that tell the next coach? It tells him that "my top recruits have to sign with (X college) or I will lose my job." I can't imagine a bigger recruiting violation than that.
Every high school coach is going to favor one college over another, and all of the state colleges are victims of it at one point or another. It just seems like it becomes a federal crime when it happens to Ole Miss.

 

[FlabLoser]

Could this be due to Orgeron? I know he burned a lot of bridges.

 

[PonyExpressHWY]

Bobby Hall steers to OM... Samsel steers away from OM. So, it's the same dang thing. Your bias is the only difference.

No actuallyit's not, read the post again. It's not the same buddy. You probably have no clue what's been goin on with Ole Miss and Olive Branch anyway so it's irrelevant

 

[PonyExpressHWY]

Goes back to the Cut days. Cut wouldn't look at Samsel's players or extend a scholly to one of them(of course this is very very brief) but since then, it's been a wall from there to Ole Miss other than A. Walker. There's much more to it than most people don't know about, including myself but that's a start.

As bruiser described, he basically won't allow anything Ole Miss to come through. It was amazing Nutt and staff was able to even talk to those guys.

 

[Lion O]

if possible.

The fact that he combines that with purposefully denying relevant contact with Ole Miss coaches is what has really pissed off people associated with the university.

You have gotten 2 players from Samsel in 5 years at OB, and 3 years at Lafayette.

He has had 12 other players sign D-1 in those years, and every one of them has been out of state.

He threw away letters and a scholarship offer to Justin Woodall while Orgeron was at OM.

He has done the same thing while at OB, most recently with Robinson and Coleman.

Its not about sending them to Ole Miss, its about preventing our coaches from recruiting the players. That's a huge difference.

 

[PonyExpressHWY]

it sets a very bad precedent to go about things the way that it is currently being approached. If ANY college in the state succeeds in having a coach run off, then what does that tell the next coach? It tells him that "my top recruits have to sign with (X college) or I will lose my job." I can't imagine a bigger recruiting violation than that.
Every high school coach is going to favor one college over another, and all of the state colleges are victims of it at one point or another. It just seems like it becomes a federal crime when it happens to Ole Miss.

I agree

 

[AlCoDog]

I always heard he got into a fist fight with a parent in the stands while coaching at Lafayette, and that parent happen to be an important person at Ole Miss. After Samsel was asked to let it go, at practice the next week, he told the kid to go home andtell his dad to kiss his *** or whatever. The kid does, and apparently Samsel gets fired from Lafayette, and that got it all started.

My wife is from Oxford, and occasionaly I have to listen to this ******** when we go visit.

 

[patdog]

Samsel is no friend to MSU either. He doesn't shut us out to the degree he does UM, but he makes damn sure that the only players we get from him are the ones he can't shop around out of state. As much as I hate Bobby Hall, what he does isn't even close to what Samsel does.

 

[dawgoneyall]

eyes? Right?

 

[MStateU]

It's bad enough that our staff is considering completely avoiding recruiting OB anymore, because it's a wasted effort.

Good.

 

[jacksonreb1]

natural IMO for a coach to have an affinity for one school or another. there are many hs coaches in ms with msu ties and we accept the fact that they will lean toward msu in advising their kids. it rarely from what i here rises to a level where ole miss ought to complain. same with hall. of course he likes ole miss but he is not an obstacle to msu or anybody elses effort. when a coach tosses the faxed scholly offers from a school to his kids so they don't get them you are at a totally different level.

 

[Lion O]

Give everyone an equal chance to recruit your players and nobody has a problem with you talking to them about OM (Bobby Hall) or MSU (former Tupelo coach) or Bama.

If everyone gets equal access to a recruit and OM loses out, that's just like recruiting every other player in the country.

Its the throwing away letters, scholarship offers, telling coaches to get the hell out of your office while they're waiting to see a player, etc etc etc that has gone on with Samsel.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Bobby Hall steers to OM... Samsel steers away from OM. So, it's the same dang thing. Your bias is the only difference.

There are more MSU high school coaches encouraging prospects to MSU in this state than there are for Ole Miss.

People aren't complaining about them. They're complaining about Samsel, because he doesn't even allow access, or at least tried to prevent it as best as he can.

It's much different. The gripe about Samsel is not that his players don't pick Ole Miss. If that was the case, it's not a big deal. The gripe is that he does everything he can to prevent us from having a chance with his players. If he'd allow for a fully open recruitment, and his players were picking someone else, no big deal. That happens everywhere. There are schools in this state that haven't sent a D-1 prospect to Ole Miss in a really long time. All people are asking for is for the recruitment to be open to all parties, without someone filtering the process the way Samsel does.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Goes back to the Cut days. Cut wouldn't look at Samsel's players or extend a scholly to one of them(of course this is very very brief) but since then, it's been a wall from there to Ole Miss other than A. Walker. There's much more to it than most people don't know about, including myself but that's a start.

As bruiser described, he basically won't allow anything Ole Miss to come through. It was amazing Nutt and staff was able to even talk to those guys.

Allen Walker didn't play for Samsel. He and Summers played under the previous coach at OB. At that time, Samsel was at Lafayette, and yes it dates back to Wesley Smith from Lafayette way back in 2002, when Cutcliffe was the coach. Samsel has held a grudge against us ever since, even though we've had two coaching changes.

We offered Damien Robinson last spring. He didn't even find out about the offer until this fall. That's not coincidence. He wasn't allowed to know we were recruiting him because of his coach. That's different than encouraging your players to take a hard look at one school or another.

As I said, I know someone that was involved in helping bring Nutt and Samsel together to try to repair the damage, and this was done back in the spring when Nutt found out that his offer didn't make it to Robinson, and his phone calls to Samsel weren't being returned. All they asked for with the meeting was a fair shake. Samsel immediately went back to his old ways after the meeting, wouldn't give us tape, wouldn't return calls, wouldn't forward our correspondence, etc. I'm just glad enough stink is being raised about it at this point.

The guy needs to be taken to the Alabama state line and dropped off with a pink slip. If he wants to find a job there, go for it. He doesn't need to be in Mississippi with what he's doing, and as patdog says, it's affecting you to a lesser degree. Outside of Arkansas, every other SEC program had backed off Robinson by the end of the recruiting period, so his main options were MSU and Memphis. That's why he's at MSU. Lawson's only SEC offer is MSU, which is why he's at MSU. If Samsel had been able to shop them to someone else, he would have, and they wouldn't be at MSU.

 

[ckDOG]

We offered Damien Robinson last spring. He didn't even find out about
the offer until this fall. That's not coincidence. He wasn't allowed to
know we were recruiting him because of his coach. That's different than
encouraging your players to take a hard look at one school or another.

Do offers have to be filtered through coaches? Is that just a junior thing? I just always assumed offers were verbally communicated to the recruit and then whatever paper document was mailed to the house.

I need a little education..

 

[DerHntr]

if i was a recruit and i found out that two SEC teams wanted to talk with me but my coach wouldn't allow it, then I would actually consider a lawsuit. i am not the type to lawyer up but damn what happens if the other schools he shops you to lose interest? total ********.

the OM folks could be blowing this out of proportion, but if it is true that he tosses letters and schollies then he should get his *** handed to him.

 

[8dog]

saying that he is essentially controlling the athletes recruiting if I remember correctly.

I don't know why anyone would have to abide by this other than to not piss him off (school has to approve visits to the high school) But OM already knew Samsel/OB didn't like him so I don't know why they didn't just deal with Robinson directly.

That's my understanding. Probably more to it

 

[MedDawg]

...anything to keep Ole Miss from getting them.<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I don't trust Ole Miss fans who "just want a fully open recruitment". We all know what that means--Goldie, Oher, Powe, adoptions/guardians, BYU online classes, prep schools, the hunting camp, ACT test 'assistance', Orgeron's "plan to get me eligible", "you can't fail as long as you go to class", church donations, boosters giving recruits' mothers jobs and sleeping with rival NCAA investigators, and much, much more.</div>

 

[ckDOG]

I don't know why anyone would have to abide by this other than to not
piss him off (school has to approve visits to the high school) But OM
already knew Samsel/OB didn't like him so I don't know why they didn't
just deal with Robinson directly.

If I were Nutt and I knew Samsel was going to be a dick about it, I'd just find a way to bypass the road block. Probably easier said than done, but I wouldn't think it would be impossible to evaluate a player and contact a player without having to channel it through a coach.

 

[RebelBruiser]

saying that he is essentially controlling the athletes recruiting if I remember correctly.

I don't know why anyone would have to abide by this other than to not piss him off (school has to approve visits to the high school) But OM already knew Samsel/OB didn't like him so I don't know why they didn't just deal with Robinson directly.

That's my understanding. Probably more to it

Exactly. And that set of rules (that he put in place and really only enforced for Ole Miss primarily) is the reason why the push started against him, and it's the reason why Desoto County Schools had to adopt a new rule just this year about how much control a coach can have in the recruitment of his prospects. After the new DCS rule was put in place, we had an easier time going around Samsel, which is the reason why we were able to get Robinson and Coleman to our campus and actually have an outside shot, but I can guarantee you the rule won't stop him from doing what he can.

 

[RebelBruiser]

if i was a recruit and i found out that two SEC teams wanted to talk with me but my coach wouldn't allow it, then I would actually consider a lawsuit. i am not the type to lawyer up but damn what happens if the other schools he shops you to lose interest? total ********.

the OM folks could be blowing this out of proportion, but if it is true that he tosses letters and schollies then he should get his *** handed to him.

And that is the reason Robinson just about ended up at Memphis this year. Had MSU not been an option, he'd have been up a creek playing in CUSA. Samsel thought he was going to get more interest for Robinson than he did, and after Robinson's season, a lot of teams Samsel wanted to shop him to started backing off.

You have to consider that these kids aren't you though. They are 17 or 18 year olds from inner-city Memphis backgrounds for the most part. All they know about the recruiting process is what their HS coach tells them.

 

[olemissbydamn]

...anything to keep Ole Miss from getting them.<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I don't trust Ole Miss fans who "just want a fully open recruitment". We all know what that means--Goldie, Oher, Powe, adoptions/guardians, BYU online classes, prep schools, the hunting camp, ACT test 'assistance', Orgeron's "plan to get me eligible", "you can't fail as long as you go to class", church donations, boosters giving recruits' mothers jobs and sleeping with rival NCAA investigators, and much, much more.</div>

The pasture 2.0.

 

[HighPointDawg]

This **** all started on message boards because there were issues with the OB coach before he became the OB coach and they were scared he would cause issues in OB. And as they continue to not get players it will continue to get worse until one of these psychotic Rebel alums goes and pays off somebody to kill him.

It's funny how much "internet gossip" Bruiser and Lion O spew as FACTS in their posts on this subject.

Does he openly push Alabama, Auburn and other big schools to recruit his top players? YES, and he feels it is in their best interest. Does he bring up a lot of negatives around Ole Miss, Southern Miss and even MSU? YES, but if a player actually wants to go there they can. Does he commit fraud and "throw letters in the trash"? NO Does he hide offers from his players? NO and this one is laughable.

DeSoto County has an "Athletics Director".. It isn't a publicly broadcast position but it is a very influential person in DeSoto Athletics who in his position watches all coaches and athletes in the county to make sure that things are legit. It is very detailed and he has looked into this "message board fodder" more than once and said Samsel was not doing anything that isn't done by other coaches. They interviewed a number of FORMER players to see if they felt "pressure" or that they were lied too.. nobody said yes. They even has somebody involved, at Nutts request, in their visits to OB players this year and nothing came of this. It is a wonderful excuse for the Yancy's and Neal's of the world to use...

The guy hates Ole Miss (and honestly most MS schools) for whatever reason, that is true.. but it isn't his fault that Ole Miss can't ignore that and send Robinson papers in-spite of the coach.. .Instead Ole Miss boosters and coaches want to make a "statement" and are trying too hard to play the game right back with him and are burning about every bridge they can doing it. Samsel is very well liked in DeSoto and well respected at OB.. continually going over his head just makes you look stupid.

 

[RebelBruiser]

...anything to keep Ole Miss from getting them.<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I don't trust Ole Miss fans who "just want a fully open recruitment". We all know what that means--Goldie, Oher, Powe, adoptions/guardians, BYU online classes, prep schools, the hunting camp, ACT test 'assistance', Orgeron's "plan to get me eligible", "you can't fail as long as you go to class", church donations, boosters giving recruits' mothers jobs and sleeping with rival NCAA investigators, and much, much more.</div>

It's a good thing MSU doesn't do any of that. I'm glad to see there is still a pillar of virtue in this great state. All the MSU football players are engineering and chemistry majors with 3.8 GPAs, and none of them have ever had any "incentive" to attend your great institution. It's a good thing MSU is above all that.

By the way, Orgeron's plan is helping MSU a whole lot more and will continue to help MSU a whole lot more than Ole Miss as long as Mullen and MSU make Mississippi recruiting a major focus, so I wouldn't complain about it. A good number of your current and future players will be on the field wearing maroon instead of in Jucos because of the methods Orgeron introduced.

 

[Goat Redux]

We offered Damien Robinson last spring. He didn't even find out about the offer until this fall. That's not coincidence. He wasn't allowed to know we were recruiting him because of his coach. That's different than encouraging your players to take a hard look at one school or another.

Well that's not whatSamsel says. In a public interview. By Yancy Porter. May 24, 2008. Right here: http://recruiting.scout.com/2/757211.html

<span class="storybody">"Damien received his first offer from Ole Miss a couple months back. Alabama, Auburn, and MSU have also offered this Spring. His recruitment is really beginning to pick up," added Olive Branch head coach, Scott Samsel.

</span>Thenon March 3, 2009, in another public interview by Yancy, right here: http://recruiting.scout.com/2/843991.html

"He has been offered by Ole Miss, MSU, USM, Arkansas, Okohoma State, Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, North Carolina, and now FSU and Auburn. There is also one more school that has offered, but I simply can not remember who it is right now. I am not at the office to look it up, but there is one more school that has given him a written offer."

You are effectively full of ****, Bruiser.

 

[RebelBruiser]

As I said, I know someone who was directly involved in trying to get Nutt and Samsel together to re-open the lines of communication, and it didn't change anything.

Normally, I'd agree with you that it's all internet BS, but it's not whether you want to believe it or not. I don't care what an internal investigation turned up, I know for a fact that Samsel was not extending camp invites from us to his players, and he was not returning our staff's phone calls, and he was not sending tapes we requested, and that comes from someone that speaks one on one with Coach Nutt, not from a message board. Orgeron didn't have the clout to try to secretly power play the guy. Nutt does. That's the only reason things have changed now.

Are you from OB HighPoint? I know Samsel is liked in Olive Branch, because the OB people want to beat SP, and they feel like he and his recruiting in the Memphis area is their only chance. Too bad it hasn't happened and won't as long as he's the coach, because he's just not good enough.

 

[MStateU]

Burn

 

[jcbully]

Anybody ever wonder if Samsel just doesn't want his program filled with OM boosters in that area that are wanting to "play the game?" Maybe he is trying to keep everything on even footing. Maybe he is actually trying to keep things clean. I've heard from more than one person that has been around him that he is a good guy and doesn't steer players anywhere. His quote was something along the lines of I just try to get the best opportunity for each individual player and his career. Just a thought. Maybe it is ridiculous to believe that in this day of recruiting, but it seems just as feasable as some of this anti-OM ********.

 

[RebelBruiser]

So Samsel knew about the offer. From Robinson in May:

Which colleges now have an offer on the table for Damien?

"My head coach has all of that information. He handles everything with my recruitment, but I can tell you that Oklahoma was my latest offer."

College coaches started calling on May 1st; any phone calls?

"Coach Samsel talks to all of the coaches. I have never talked to anybody on the phone, but I did talk to the Alabama coaches went I went down there. Naturally, we talked while I was on my visit."

Just saying, he didn't know much of anything about his recruitment until the fall other than the fact that he had been camping at Alabama, where Samsel was trying to shop him.

 

[dawgoneyall]

You do have brown eyes.

 

[Goat Redux]

nm

 

[dawgatUSM]

That's what's really good.