Onside kick...

[dawgstudent]

Swinney was saying they were called for a penalty when they did this vs South Carolina next year. I wish I could find a video.

4th drive of the game - http://espn.go.com/college-football/playbyplay?gameId=400547750

(2:26 - 1st) Bradley Pinion on-side kick recovered by SOUTH CAROLINA at the CLEMSON 42 CLEMSON Penalty, Kick Catching Interference (-15 Yards) to the Clem 43

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The rule. Could have caught is the key. There was no way the Clemson player could have caught the ball. It was executed perfectly.

A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V, VI and IX).

http://ruletool.info/rule/830/2014/6-4-1-a/

 

[dawgstudent]

Here is Clemson's onside kick from last year vs USC...

https://youtu.be/6K5tpjO4zw4?t=1683

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

This is why a lot of the time the ball is kicked so it bounces on the ground. The kick last night was as clean as you can get without it bouncing.

 

[patdog]

Exactly. That's the key. The rule is you can't interfere with the receiving team's opportunity to catch the kick. But if there's no one on their team within 10 yards of the ball, you can definitely catch it. Clemson just 17ed up lining up for the kick. I suspect Saban had that play lined up and ready to go if they needed it all night.

 

[drt7891]

Don't know about college, but in high school, the ball has to go 10 yards and touch the ground before the kicking team can touch/catch it or it is automatically kick catch interference, regardless if an R player had a chance to catch it or not.

The officials made several correctable mistakes last night that may or may not have had a significant impact on the game. I normally don't buy this "Bama Bias" conspiracy, though.

 

[Dawgzilla]

What if Clemson had signalled for a fair catch? Just a hypothetical, but if Clemson had signalled for a fair catch would Bama still be allowed to just beat them to the ball? I suspect the answer is yes, but I really don't know the rule for calling a fair catch on a kickoff. I know they have changed the rule so that you can call for a fair catch even if the ball hits the ground, but I don't know how the rule actually works.

 

[patdog]

The receiving team actually has to have an opportunity to catch the ball. Just because a player waves his hand in the air 20 yards away doesn't mean he has an opportunity to catch the ball. So Bama could have still caught it.

 

[dawgstudent]

Explain this rule to me...

http://ruletool.info/headline/section-4-opportunity-to-catch-a-kick/

Rule 6-4-1-f

During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.

the driven to the ground part confuses me. I thought once it hits the ground - it's a live ball.

 

[RocketDawg]

I think the key word is "immediately", meaning right in front of the tee somewhat like a topped drive in golf that hits the ground right in front to the tee but still goes a couple hundred yards. Could be that the opposing team has to at least have a chance to catch the ball, and they wouldn't if it immediately skipped off the ground.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I think this is to make kicks that bounce high but technically hit the ground first equivalent to balls kicked in the air. Kind of like bouncing a tennis ball really high off the ground. If the ball is kicked forward and bounces it's anyone's to catch. I imagine it will be subject to the official's judgment and can't be reviewed.

 

[drt7891]

It is, but it's like a wide receiver and defender in a position to catch a pass. Both are entitled to their position to make the catch and both are protected from interference, by rule.

Basically what that is saying is the receiving team and kicking team are afforded the same protection when it comes to catching a free kick.

 

[thekimmer]

Not nearly the same situation. The USC player was camped under the ball and signaled for a fair catch and was run over. There wasn't a clemson player near the ball on their play. I have a feeling the video from this play will be much studied over the next few months.

 

[Dawgzilla]

This is a new rule. A popular onside kick procedure was to kick the into the ground so that it hopped once or twice and then bounced up into the air so that the kicking team could fight for it. This new rule says that when that happens, the receiving team can still fair catch the kick. It was intended to reduce those wild scrums that would take place with everyone fighting for the ball.

 

[thekimmer]

So on one of these bounding rugby type punts, say a receiving player happens gets a sunday hop. Can he call for a fair catch and field the punt without getting killed?

 

[dawgstudent]

So on Clemson's onside kick with 12 seconds left -the Bama player could have fair caught it on the big bounce?

 

[dawgstudent]

I agree. Completely different. The SC guy actually signaled fair catch.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

No, according to the rule you cited. That rule only applies when the ball is "immediately driven into the ground" and "strikes the ground once."

Clemson's kick was immediately driven into the ground, I would think, but it struck the ground more than once before taking the big hop.

There's another rule about the kicking team hitting the receiving team before the ball goes 10 yards or something. I think we got screwed over in Tuscaloosa last year by that rule.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

I suspect Saban had that play lined up and ready to go if they needed it all night.

He definitely did. OOB played a snippet of SVP's postgame Saban interview. Bama saw in scouting that Clemson tended to line up leaving that open, so Bama practiced that onside kick and put it in the playbook this week. Once they saw that Clemson continued to line up like they had been, they knew it was open. Then when Saban needed a momentum swing (and he felt like they couldn't stop Clemson's offense and would lose if they continued to "swap serves"), he called for the onside.

That's so Saban...

 

[Dawgzilla]

No, the rule only applies to free kicks.

 

[dawgstudent]

I stopped reading at immediately driven into the ground. I'm an idiot - especially in this particular instance.

 

[MarkDallas]

Basically what that is saying is the receiving team and kicking team are afforded the same protection when it comes to catching a free kick.

That's not what it says.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Actually ..

Basically what that is saying is the receiving team and kicking team are afforded the same protection when it comes to catching a free kick.

Don't think that's quite right .. Kicking team is not allowed to make a fair catch. They don't have the same protections.

 

[thekimmer]

Speaking of kickoffs in HS ball....

Don't know about college, but in high school, the ball has to go 10 yards and touch the ground before the kicking team can touch/catch it or it is automatically kick catch interference, regardless if an R player had a chance to catch it or not.

The officials made several correctable mistakes last night that may or may not have had a significant impact on the game. I normally don't buy this "Bama Bias" conspiracy, though.

When I played in the 70s in the days of straight on kickers, usually the beefiest guy on the team kicked off and lord only knew where the ball was going. Our kickoff guy, a 6', 230 pound fireplug FB, wailed into one that came off his toe as a screaming line drive about 5 feet off the ground. It hit the guy in the middle of the front line square in the chest, bounced right back to the kicker who scooped it up and took it the distance for an apparent TD. But alas, an onside kick cannot be advanced by the kicking team so it came back. Was still a cool play though.

 

[operch]

I believe we lost an onside kick this past year that we caught in the air. And I believe they announced at the game that the kicking team could not catch it in the air. I cannot remember witch game.