Optimus Prime...this isnt a hire "equivalent to Cut"...

[Coach34]

While Cut did win the award, he didnt have the top record breaking offense. Tennessee had a decent offense, but they werent high-powered by any means

This hire is more the equivalent of Tubby- Tubby came in having coached a top defense as part of his credentials. And Wilson is actually a better hire than Tubby because Wilson has set national records.

Get off the "same as Cut" ****...This is more like the Tubby hire and you know it. And we could very likely end up with Wilson leaving us in his pine box as well, but that would mean we were in good shape. I'll take it.</p>

 

[Coach34]

While Cut did win the award, he didnt have the top record breaking offense. Tennessee had a decent offense, but they werent high-powered by any means

This hire is more the equivalent of Tubby- Tubby came in having coached a top defense as part of his credentials. And Wilson is actually a better hire than Tubby because Wilson has set national records.

Get off the "same as Cut" ****...This is more like the Tubby hire and you know it. And we could very likely end up with Wilson leaving us in his pine box as well, but that would mean we were in good shape. I'll take it.</p>

 

[slickdawg]

What? Cut couldn't set NCAA records with Peyton or Eli ??

 

[Rebheaded Stranger]

But, a first time head coach's success and failure depends greatly on the coaches with whom he surrounds himself, his ability to recruit, his magnetism in terms of alumni as he's now the face of an entire athletic program, not just a football team. Cut didn't have that ****. Tuberville did. But you didn't really know those things until they'd been in place for at least a season and the next recruiting go-round.

Who's gonna be the DC? Who's gonna be recruiting coordinator? This stuff matters you know, as witnessed by your separate success on either side of the ball. Lot's of times, X's & O's guys can't sell. Can Wilson sell? Can he build a staff? My point is this, there are WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES when you're hiring a coordinator with zero head man experience to know whether or not he's a "HR".

Wilson has every bit of credibility in terms of scheme. Tuberville wasn't known as a great schemer, but he had the intangibles that you look for in a head coach. Time will tell if your new guy can take care of stuff outside of the film room.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

4-8 and beat Vandy, which OM could not do.
I think also one of the better coaches ever in Oxford..he just looked too much like Otis.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Exactly. If head coaching was all about scheming, then Wilson would be a slam dunk. However, like RHS said, there is a lot more to being a great head coach, and a lot of those variables will be unanswered about Wilson until he spends a couple years at MSU.

You don't know how well he'll do at hiring coaches. Until Tony Franklin that was one of Tuberville's greatest strengths. He went through a ton of assistants, but he always replaced them with another very good one. And then there is the recruiting, the PR, the game-planning, being in charge of motivating the team. Mark Richt is a good example of a coach that knows what buttons to push. Tuberville was great with that as well. Every year you have a different team with different personalities. Part of being a great head coach is figuring out how to make that work and figuring out what to do to get them to work for you. It's not just all about being great at the X's and O's. To be honest with you, I think one of the main reasons Nutt was able to win for us this year was his ability to get the players to come together and play as a team. It had a little bit to do with the X's and O's of course, but I think his biggest task was psychological, something you don't have to deal with a whole bunch as a coordinator.

That's why I said that you can't consider any hire of an assistant to be a homerun, because there are way too many things required of being a great head coach that you don't get the chance to experience when you're a coordinator. It doesn't mean Wilson can't be great at those things, but it does mean that no one knows, not even Wilson himself at this point.

 

[Rebheaded Stranger]

dumbassku

 

[RebelBruiser]

Cutcliffe had head coaching experience when he was hired at Duke. I think RHS's point is not that a coordinator can't have success immediately. It's just that you don't know whether he'll be a good head coach until he's spent a year or two doing the tasks of a head coach.

 

[Rebheaded Stranger]

Redundantku

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Back to ya *****!!

 

[Coach34]

that the Cut and Tubby hires were equal?

 

[Garciacamebackadawg]

at Mangini at Kansas. To me that is very comparable to Wilson at MSU, but you are right in that he as to surround himself with the right people. I would love to see O on the sidelines as a DL coach/ recruiting coordinator hell maybe the DC. What's the word on Chavis, is he going to LSU has LSU even talked to him?</p>

 

[OEMDawg]

It's Mangino. And I can't see that man finding anybody to surround him.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Steve Sloan . He was as big a sure thing as you could get . I`ll let one of our Rebel buddies tell the rest of the story.

 

[RebelBruiser]

No, dumbass, but at the time of the hires, you would've had no clue which one would turn out better, because you hadn't seen either of them manage the ins and outs of being a head coach.

If you'd have put them side by side, it would've been evident after a couple years that Tubby was a better coach, but when they were hired, they were both top assistants that hadn't had head coaching experience.

 

[mabtsdawg]

The X's and O's are a higher priority than normal for us. Still, you made some good points. I think that in the national college football coaching search ranking's, Wilson is a very good hire. Relative to Croom, and past MSU coaching searches, he would be a HR.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

the smallest city in the SEC (per another thread).
Had much success at Vandy and Tex. Tech...but had great assistants in Rex Dockery, George MacIntyr, and Bill Parcells.
All were later head coaches, Dockery at Texas Tech and Memphis, MacIntyre at Vandy, and Parcells...we'll you know...
Might have been others.
Assistants do matter.

 

[Coach34]

DUMBASS....i'll type slower...

As a coordinator, there is no greater distinction than having your guys lead the nation whether its defensively or offensively. Hiring Tubby > hiring Cut due to the fact Tubby's guys were one of the top defenses...Cut ran a "balanced" offense and did a solid job as an OC, but wasnt running a top 5 offense at UT

hiring Wilson > Cut
hiring Tubby > Cut

 

[Rebheaded Stranger]

my point is only that hiring a coordinator with no head coaching experience is a bit like buying a cat in a bag. There are a lot of wait and see's.
<div style="text-align: left;">
Texas knew what they were getting when they hired Mack Brown. He had completed the task that he was being asked to complete already. That was a HR.

Georgia hoped they were getting everything they signed on for when they tabbed Richt. He'd never been in charge of discipline. He'd never had to hire a full staff. He'd never had to fire anyone. He'd never had to close a recruit.

You can compare apples to apples and say that y'alls hiring of Wilson is a HR in terms of coordinator hire and from that perspective it looks great right now. And it may turn out to be great. But remember that for every Rich Rodriguez, Tommy Bowden's spread guru that has reached the peak of his profession now as head coach of a top five program, there's a Brad Scott, the offensive mastermind behind Florida State's fast break offense who proved to be a collosal failure as a head coach, but is still widely regarded as one helluva assistant.

</div>

 

[patdog]

Let's assue us hiring Wilson IS the equivalent of UM hiring Cutcliffe. I, for one, won't ***** too much if Wilson only goes 44-29 as our head coach.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

they are exactly the same.

 

[millsaps05]

After the crap that State fans have seen on the field since 2001, I would LOVE for Wilson to come in and have the kind of success that Cutcliffe had at Ole Miss.

 

[beachbumdawg]

Hiring Cut = securing the enrollment of Eli at OM.........Cut made it because of Peyton's success at UT and with Tee Martin to an extent

So is Hiring Wilson = securing the enrollement of TR???

 

[rebelrouseri]

He had a good staff and did a good job w/ the talent that Tub<font color="#FF0000">b</font>erville left him. Cut just didn't have the psychotic work ethic that you need in college football now, and the talent and staff deteriorated. There was nothing wrong w/ the Cut hire from day 1 though.