OT: 2023 Golf Thread

chase07470

All-American
Oct 16, 2010
10,099
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Koepka won the week before on the LIV tour and then ties for 2nd. How is that bad? Plus Mickelson and Reed have had success at Augusta. It's as simple as some guys like some courses and hate others. No difference on either tour.
What he's trying to say is that Mickelson has played terrible on LIV, Koepka had too, until the week of the Masters and I guess Reed isn't tearing it up either. He's saying they don't care about playing well, they mail it in on LIV but get their grind on when the stage is real at Augusta.

Is it clear whether these guys actually get the prize money on LIV or if its simply subtracted from their giant contracts? I've read it both ways.

But I don't think any golfer shows up and mails it in.. If you're out there, you're grinding.

Phil fed off Spieth, conjured up ghosts from the past, got energy from the crowd and had a day. Koepka is healthy again and Reed is a great course manager and obviously Augusta suits him. Nothing surprising about that.

Better for LIV to have guys finish near the top of the leaderboard than if they all missed the cut. But does it move the needle? No. The only way LIV survives is if they pay way up and get Scheffler, Rahm and another top gun or two. As it is, watching a handful of the mostly unlikable Tour pros, in an exhibition, isn't nearly as compelling as watching the other 80% in a real tournament. That doesn't change because a few guys played well at Augusta.
 

Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
96
What he's trying to say is that Mickelson has played terrible on LIV, Koepka had too, until the week of the Masters and I guess Reed isn't tearing it up either. He's saying they don't care about playing well, they mail it in on LIV but get their grind on when the stage is real at Augusta.

Is it clear whether these guys actually get the prize money on LIV or if its simply subtracted from their giant contracts? I've read it both ways.

But I don't think any golfer shows up and mails it in.. If you're out there, you're grinding.

Phil fed off Spieth, conjured up ghosts from the past, got energy from the crowd and had a day. Koepka is healthy again and Reed is a great course manager and obviously Augusta suits him. Nothing surprising about that.

Better for LIV to have guys finish near the top of the leaderboard than if they all missed the cut. But does it move the needle? No. The only way LIV survives is if they pay way up and get Scheffler, Rahm and another top gun or two. As it is, watching a handful of the mostly unlikable Tour pros, in an exhibition, isn't nearly as compelling as watching the other 80% in a real tournament. That doesn't change because a few guys played well at Augusta.
I think you guys are making this too complicated. Some guys just like certain courses or are motivated by majors (no matter what tour). Brooks has won 2 LIV tournaments (last year and last week) and is healthy now. Reed has played well on LIV and his team "won" a few tournaments. Mickelson has to pick his spots due to age. He loves Augusta and competes there. I get he's the face of LIV but I think he's in a better place now and will pick it up.

You lose creditability when you refer to LIV as an exhibition. It's just a different format so people are not used to it. I prefer the PGA Tour but and am open to see how this goes. Ultimately it will fail but this whole LIV sucks / PGA Tour is better is a waste of time. I mean who really roots for tours? Do the guys on the DP tour suck as well?
 

knightfan7

Heisman
Jul 30, 2003
93,381
67,206
113
I think you guys are making this too complicated. Some guys just like certain courses or are motivated by majors (no matter what tour). Brooks has won 2 LIV tournaments (last year and last week) and is healthy now. Reed has played well on LIV and his team "won" a few tournaments. Mickelson has to pick his spots due to age. He loves Augusta and competes there. I get he's the face of LIV but I think he's in a better place now and will pick it up.

You lose creditability when you refer to LIV as an exhibition. It's just a different format so people are not used to it. I prefer the PGA Tour but and am open to see how this goes. Ultimately it will fail but this whole LIV sucks / PGA Tour is better is a waste of time. I mean who really roots for tours? Do the guys on the DP tour suck as well?
Nah. it's an exhibition.
 

chase07470

All-American
Oct 16, 2010
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I think you guys are making this too complicated. Some guys just like certain courses or are motivated by majors (no matter what tour). Brooks has won 2 LIV tournaments (last year and last week) and is healthy now. Reed has played well on LIV and his team "won" a few tournaments. Mickelson has to pick his spots due to age. He loves Augusta and competes there. I get he's the face of LIV but I think he's in a better place now and will pick it up.

You lose creditability when you refer to LIV as an exhibition. It's just a different format so people are not used to it. I prefer the PGA Tour but and am open to see how this goes. Ultimately it will fail but this whole LIV sucks / PGA Tour is better is a waste of time. I mean who really roots for tours? Do the guys on the DP tour suck as well?
What's the difference between tournament golf and exhibition golf, genius? A different format. 54 holes, in your shorts, extremely limited field, is not tournament golf. It's exhibition golf. See how it goes? They have no revenue in year two and no prospects of any revenue going forward. It couldn't be going worse. But if the Saudi's want to keep funding it, so be it. The only one I miss watching is Cam Smith. That kids got game. Bryson? Sergio? Reed? Addition by subtraction for the PGA Tour.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
12,044
82
One thing is clear. The majors should let them play if they qualify. We can have different opinions on LIV. It’ll be interesting if they get a lift on ratings at the next event.
 

Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
96
What's the difference between tournament golf and exhibition golf, genius? A different format. 54 holes, in your shorts, extremely limited field, is not tournament golf. It's exhibition golf. See how it goes? They have no revenue in year two and no prospects of any revenue going forward. It couldn't be going worse. But if the Saudi's want to keep funding it, so be it. The only one I miss watching is Cam Smith. That kids got game. Bryson? Sergio? Reed? Addition by subtraction for the PGA Tour.
Is MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL all exhibition sports by your definition? Guaranteed salaries, limited teams/players, etc. LIV is trying to create a sports league (along with relegation) similar to the above.

Plus there are many more players the PGA Tour misses (ex, Smith, DJ, B. Koepka, Anser, Grace, Niemann, Pereira, Schwartzel, Steele, Varner, Wolff among others). That is a lot of depth missing from the tour.
 

rcube1994

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2004
915
1,308
93
Is MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL all exhibition sports by your definition? Guaranteed salaries, limited teams/players, etc. LIV is trying to create a sports league (along with relegation) similar to the above.

Plus there are many more players the PGA Tour misses (ex, Smith, DJ, B. Koepka, Anser, Grace, Niemann, Pereira, Schwartzel, Steele, Varner, Wolff among others). That is a lot of depth missing from the tour.
The tour misses Schwartzel, Grace, Steele, Varner and Wolf? I know you're a LIV troll but even you cant type that with a straight face.
 

chase07470

All-American
Oct 16, 2010
10,099
8,344
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Is MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL all exhibition sports by your definition? Guaranteed salaries, limited teams/players, etc. LIV is trying to create a sports league (along with relegation) similar to the above.

Plus there are many more players the PGA Tour misses (ex, Smith, DJ, B. Koepka, Anser, Grace, Niemann, Pereira, Schwartzel, Steele, Varner, Wolff among others). That is a lot of depth missing from the tour.
Come on, they're team sports. I get what LIV is trying to do. So far its going over about as well as Billie Jean King's Team Tennis in the 70's. If you enjoy it, that's great. If I find time to sit down nd watch golf, its not going to be watching that. Plus, it ticks me off the Saudi's control the price of oil, jerk our economy around on a string, to pay guys who already made millions as they try to ruin the tradition of the game of professional golf. Non starter for me.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
64,384
43,483
113
Come on, they're team sports. I get what LIV is trying to do. So far its going over about as well as Billie Jean King's Team Tennis in the 70's. If you enjoy it, that's great. If I find time to sit down nd watch golf, its not going to be watching that. Plus, it ticks me off the Saudi's control the price of oil, jerk our economy around on a string, to pay guys who already made millions as they try to ruin the tradition of the game of professional golf. Non starter for me.
Yep, the Saudis are as bad or worse than the misognynist criminals who run Qatar and bought the World Cup. Both are badly transparent efforts to "sportswash" their terrible records on human rights. 60 Minutes did a nice expose on this recently.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-...accusations-60-minutes-transcript-2023-04-09/
 

Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
96
Come on, they're team sports. I get what LIV is trying to do. So far its going over about as well as Billie Jean King's Team Tennis in the 70's. If you enjoy it, that's great. If I find time to sit down nd watch golf, its not going to be watching that. Plus, it ticks me off the Saudi's control the price of oil, jerk our economy around on a string, to pay guys who already made millions as they try to ruin the tradition of the game of professional golf. Non starter for me.
I agree about it being similar to Billie Jean Team Tennis. I was going to use that earlier so we are on the same page there. I am no fan of the Saudi's either and assume/hope LIV fails. I also hate that the PGA Tour essentially needed LIV to take care of their players. I don't fault LIV for trying something different (unlike most here and in the golf media), but hopefully it fails after this season and there is a reconciliation to get back most of the popular players.
 
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Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
96
The tour misses Schwartzel, Grace, Steele, Varner and Wolf? I know you're a LIV troll but even you cant type that with a straight face.
Not a LIV troll but not a hater like most. I see you cherry picked some names from my list but if you don't think the PGA misses former winners/solid players, you are mistaken.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113

rcube1994

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2004
915
1,308
93
Not a LIV troll but not a hater like most. I see you cherry picked some names from my list but if you don't think the PGA misses former winners/solid players, you are mistaken.
Thats half your list. Once you get past DJ, Cam, and Brooks, the others are replaceable. And they are glad to be rid of Reed and Sergio. The elevated events this year have had excellent fields so dont think the tour is hurting at all.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
With LIV, I am surprised they are openly complaining about it. Also, even though Harbour Town is a designated event, it’s like a family vacation for the pros. Weird time to complain.
It's like a family vacation for their family members but not the players. Traditionally a good percentage of top players skipped the week after the Masters (as with all majors). It's also obvious that you didn't read the article. The complaints aren't mostly about this tournament but about the lead in to the Masters.
 
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Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
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It's like a family vacation for their family members but not the players. Traditionally a good percentage of top players skipped the week after the Masters (as with all majors). It's also obvious that you didn't read the article. The complaints aren't mostly about this tournament but about the lead in to the Masters.
No, I read the article(s) and heard this on Golf Channel prior (mostly about Rory). I also got that the complaints were about the 5 events prior to the Masters. Harbour Town event is still chill. I've been to a few events there and at night it's all the players and their families just taking in the scene. I get it's still a regular tournament and they want to win, but it's a much different experience than most tour events. Plus it's not a course everyone loves which may have triggered the complaints (ex. Rory).
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
No, I read the article(s) and heard this on Golf Channel prior (mostly about Rory). I also got that the complaints were about the 5 events prior to the Masters. Harbour Town event is still chill. I've been to a few events there and at night it's all the players and their families just taking in the scene. I get it's still a regular tournament and they want to win, but it's a much different experience than most tour events. Plus it's not a course everyone loves which may have triggered the complaints (ex. Rory).
Again the complaints are mostly about the lead up to the Masters. Rory's complaint, like Speath, was about the lead up to the Masters and saying he was fried before the start of last week's Masters.
It's still dumb to force guys to play the weekend after a major no matter how family friendly they are. Having been many tour stops as a fan most non majors are chill. Riviera and Muirfield top the list as players favorites with Harbor Town a distant 3rd.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
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WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
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Tiger is in a different category. Better comparison is Rory last year. He had a great final round but was too far back. Rory didn’t get TV coverage until the last few holes.
What? Rory was on a lot last year because he was off before the leaders. And why do we have to see Tiger struggle while people are climbing up the score board. Nantz was thrown to the wolves defending CBS, and just CBS. This wasn't a Masters demand.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
12,044
82
What? Rory was on a lot last year because he was off before the leaders. And why do we have to see Tiger struggle while people are climbing up the score board. Nantz was thrown to the wolves defending CBS, and just CBS. This wasn't a Masters demand.
Are you new to watching golf on TV? just ask @RUScrew85 about the Tiger rule. Rory did not get a lot of TV coverage on Sunday until the very end. It was for the same reason that they started too far back to be considered in contention.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
Are you new to watching golf on TV? just ask @RUScrew85 about the Tiger rule. Rory did not get a lot of TV coverage on Sunday until the very end. It was for the same reason that they started too far back to be considered in contention.
Last year? Rory didn't get TV coverage? He was off before the leaders. Made a run. Was the only game in town for awhile. Same as Phil. It not about in contention it's about who is making a run before the leaders tee off. Do you watch golf? Apparently not! The next over covered golfer in majors was Phil. Obviously you've never watched enough to see that before! 🙄
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
12,044
82
Last year? Rory didn't get TV coverage? He was off before the leaders. Made a run. Was the only game in town for awhile. Same as Phil. It not about in contention it's about who is making a run before the leaders tee off. Do watch golf? Apparently not!
When does the TV coverage begin on Sunday?
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
12,044
82
Some days hours before the leaders tee off. And the whole Masters is available online. I guess you really don't watch much golf.
Phil didn’t deserve the coverage on those days. He had one great round. He was 11 back at the start of Sunday. He had a great Sunday round much like Rory did last year. But he was never in contention.
 

Rush121

Junior
Dec 10, 2007
273
276
0
Phil didn’t deserve the coverage on those days. He had one great round. He was 11 back at the start of Sunday. He had a great Sunday round much like Rory did last year. But he was never in contention.
He was the clubhouse leader with 6 holes to play...that’s pretty relevant. You may be biased against him because of LIV. Which, by the way, he was mostly correct on the things he said that made fans dislike him. Rory losing 3mm this week is not important as much to him now since the PGA opened its purse strings because of LIV and Phil (yes he had the guts to say and do it). Competition is ok.
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
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He was the clubhouse leader with 6 holes to play...that’s pretty relevant. You may be biased against him because of LIV. Which, by the way, he was mostly correct on the things he said that made fans dislike him. Rory losing 3mm this week is not important as much to him now since the PGA opened its purse strings because of LIV and Phil (yes he had the guts to say and do it). Competition is ok.
Agreed. They covered him on the last 4 holes when it looked like he had an outside chance. I’m not bias against him for LIV. I just don’t like his phony *** after all the stories came out. Especially the ones about how he treated Bones.
 

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,432
18,399
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I’m not bias against him for LIV.
 

Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
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It was but a 5 + hour round for the leaders was brutal. 6 with the playoffs. Cantlay should have been penalized on 14. That dude is like watching baseball before the pitch clock.
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,826
12,044
82
It was but a 5 + hour round for the leaders was brutal. 6 with the playoffs. Cantlay should have been penalized on 14. That dude is like watching baseball before the pitch clock.
Funny complaint from someone who likes watching more golf.
 

Section124

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
16,817
18,403
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Funny complaint from someone who likes watching more golf.
True. But I am also on record saying I can’t stand watching golf from 8:30 AM until 7 PM. That is where I do prefer the shotgun start. Give me what I need to see in a four hour window with everyone playing at once. Sucks for the guys that go out early. No one is watching them on ESPN +. I bet most here done even know where to watch golf outside of Golf Channel and CBS/NBC.
 

knightfan7

Heisman
Jul 30, 2003
93,381
67,206
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True. But I am also on record saying I can’t stand watching golf from 8:30 AM until 7 PM. That is where I do prefer the shotgun start. Give me what I need to see in a four hour window with everyone playing at once. Sucks for the guys that go out early. No one is watching them on ESPN +. I bet most here done even know where to watch golf outside of Golf Channel and CBS/NBC.
An issue with shotgun starts is you don't know who's actually leading or where players actually stand when they've played different holes. It also takes away the drama of the last 2-3 groups coming down 16,. 17, and 18.
 

kupuna133

All-American
Jul 13, 2015
6,075
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True. But I am also on record saying I can’t stand watching golf from 8:30 AM until 7 PM. That is where I do prefer the shotgun start. Give me what I need to see in a four hour window with everyone playing at once. Sucks for the guys that go out early. No one is watching them on ESPN +. I bet most here done even know where to watch golf outside of Golf Channel and CBS/NBC.
Okay to play in a shotgun start at an outing. Awful to play in event when money is on the line.

Can you imagine having to start your round at 17 at sawgrass.

I remember playing in a corporate outing (client event). Drove over 100 miles to get there and sat in 1 he of traffic. Should have taken me a little under 2 hours to get there and planned to give myself and playing partner an hour to get settled and grab something to eat range time etc…

Pulled in hot into the parking lot and straight to our tee assignment. 180 yard par three all carry over marsh. What fun.
 

knightfan7

Heisman
Jul 30, 2003
93,381
67,206
113
Okay to play in a shotgun start at an outing. Awful to play in event when money is on the line.

Can you imagine having to start your round at 17 at sawgrass.

I remember playing in a corporate outing (client event). Drove over 100 miles to get there and sat in 1 he of traffic. Should have taken me a little under 2 hours to get there and planned to give myself and playing partner an hour to get settled and grab something to eat range time etc…

Pulled in hot into the parking lot and straight to our tee assignment. 180 yard par three all carry over marsh. What fun.
Ouch.

A golf course is designed a certain way. It should be played that way. I'm not a fan of starting at 1 and 10 but understand it's needed to get everyone thru the 1st and 2nd round.

Imagine starting on the Bear Trap or 5-8 at Bay Hill?