OT: Another school shooting

[Carbaryl]

I'll be surprised if the kid wasn't influenced by Klebold and Harris.There are a lot of similarities.Pagourtzis journal is said to be about as dark as the one they found in Harris' room.

 

[tatedog]

All the downvotes are interesting. As if there wasn't some statistical evidence that the availability of guns has no impact on the rate of suicides and gun violence.

How has the illegality of illicit drugs affected their availability?

 

[Pars]

Well I can tell you what ain’t gonna change ****. Thoughts and 17n prayers. Faith without action is dead.
Saw a stat that said more children have died in 2018 on US soil than armed forces members fighting in conflicts.
Another stat
the number of school shootings that have happened since the year 2000 around the world:

ENGLAND: 0
GREECE: 1
NETHERLANDS: 1
SPAIN: 1
INDIA: 1
ARGENTINA: 1
RUSSIA: 1
CHINA: 3
MEXICO: 4
AUSTRALIA: 5
CANADA: 5
GERMANY: 5
SOUTH AFRICA: 5
USA: 213

But we don’t have a 17n gun problem

 

[thatsbaseball]

We tightened up security at at airports, why can't we do the same thing at schools ?

 

[thatsbaseball]

He wore combat boots and a trench coat to school.....ya think ?

 

[BELdog]

We don't have a gun problem. We have a cultural problem and making it harder for good guys to get guns won't fix anything. The only thing that stopped yesterday's shooting from being our second mass shooting at a school this week was a good guy with a gun.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

1. Bullying other students to the point that the victims commit suicide (~4,400 of suicides every year)
2. Peer pressure: Urging fellow students (many underage) to drink too much (4,300+ underage youth perish in alcohol related deaths every year)
3. Peer pressure: "Introducing" fellow students to drugs, providing drugs, etc. (2015: ~770 15-19 year olds died from drug overdoses)

As horrible as they are, deaths due to shootings on campus don't come near the amount of deaths of #1, #2, & #3

More details? Go to the CDC website, the NIH website, bullyingstatistics.org, etc., etc.

All true. But it doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done. The difference between those issues and the school shootings is that shooting victims did not make a bad decision... They were doing it right and were just flat out murdered children. This cannot be tolerated.

Here's a statistic for you... 74. That is the average number of American deaths per year from foreign born terrorists since 1975. It includes 9/11. 74 pails in comparison to the numbers you mentioned as well. Yet we have spent 10's of trillions of dollars and deployed millions of troops chasing down terrorists around the world.... Worth every bit of it in my opinion. And after spending nearly 3 years overseas chasing the 17's, I hope my opinion matters a little.

But now it's time to do something here.... $47.00 a month per student. ($65k per year will attract a lot of Army/Marine Corps troops ÷ 1400 students ÷ 12 months.) That's what it would cost to have a dozen recently separated Army Rangers on duty at Santa Fe High School. That makes for a much harder target. When you look at the money we spend on ****, $47.00 is nothing. This problem is going to get worse, without action. Time to act.

 

[thatsbaseball]

^^THIS^^ and just mix in some common sense and this crap can be brought to a screeching halt.

 

[BossDawg78]

Well I can tell you what ain’t gonna change ****. Thoughts and 17n prayers. Faith without action is dead.
Saw a stat that said more children have died in 2018 on US soil than armed forces members fighting in conflicts.
Another stat
the number of school shootings that have happened since the year 2000 around the world:

ENGLAND: 0
GREECE: 1
NETHERLANDS: 1
SPAIN: 1
INDIA: 1
ARGENTINA: 1
RUSSIA: 1
CHINA: 3
MEXICO: 4
AUSTRALIA: 5
CANADA: 5
GERMANY: 5
SOUTH AFRICA: 5
USA: 213

But we don’t have a 17n gun problem

Ok. So how do we fix this "gun problem"? Do we have an alcohol problem, too, considering all the children that are killed in DUI accidents every year? If we truly care about the loss of innocent life here, why aren't we attacking EVERYTHING that causes innocent, avoidable deaths? But still, I want to know how you think we can fix this "gun problem".

And by the way, Mexico has much stricter gun laws and they literally have firefights in the streets there. Just because these countries aren't plagued with school shootings doesn't mean they are free of gun violence. You won't hear the media point that out though nor will they give accurate statistics on it either.

 

[MrKotter]

People on both sides want to talk about the guns, but it seems like no one wants to talk about the schools. And not the physical security and procedures, but what happens to kids at schools that make them go off and do these things. The social dynamics. How most people can tolerate the typical awkward, mean, and humiliating crap most people have to go through at some points of schooling, while for others it internally festers and turns into violence. How we form our children into adolescents and eventually, and hopefully, into functioning adults.

It’s not a school’s responsibility to rear a child. That starts at home. Too many lazy *** dead beat parents today. Everybody wants to point their finger at schools, gun manufacturers and everybody and everything else but not the parents. With every one of these 17ing incidents there were signs beforehand but the families and friends chose to ignore them.

 

[Pars]

Ahh the false equivalency. So you used cars and alcohol.
You have to take a test and carry a license to drive and be 21 to purchase alcohol. Let’s at least start there with guns and see what that does. You simple 17

 

[BossDawg78]

Ahh the false equivalency. So you used cars and alcohol.
You have to take a test and carry a license to drive and be 21 to purchase alcohol. Let’s at least start there with guns and see what that does. You simple 17

Ah, yes, resort to childish insiults and avoid the meat of the problem altogether. What do laws do? Since when do laws stop anyone who doesn't care for others? Laws and what they are attributed to here is moot at best. I bought alcohol when I was 15 and ripped up and down the road like a moron. I'm lucky I didn't kill someone, and I know at least 4 people who drive without a license right now. Still, answer the question....how do we stop this "gun problem"?

 

[Pars]

So your going to stick your head in tha sand and say that the availability of guns in the this country has no bearing on the number of mass shootings? I’m just really sick of people looking to blame everything but the gun. It childish to think otherwise when the data from countries where guns are far harder to obtain legally is so far on the other direction on gun related violence.

 

[BELdog]

Ahh the false equivalency. So you used cars and alcohol.
You have to take a test and carry a license to drive and be 21 to purchase alcohol. Let’s at least start there with guns and see what that does. You simple 17

Your last comment is the reason no one will take you seriously.

 

[BossDawg78]

So your going to stick your head in tha sand and say that the availability of guns in the this country has no bearing on the number of mass shootings? I’m just really sick of people looking to blame everything but the gun. It childish to think otherwise when the data from countries where guns are far harder to obtain legally is so far on the other direction on gun related violence.

How do you explain Mexico Then? I'll bring that country up again and point to what I said earlier: Their gun laws are much stricter than ours, yet they literally have firefights in the streets there. I'm sick of everyone thinking the solution is just as simple as "guns". This goes much, much deeper than "just guns". Ramming cars through crowds of people seems to be catching on. People lived for thousands of years without cars, and millions do so even today. So if we have a breakout of cars ramming through crowds of people, are we gonna start blaming Dodge or Ford and say we have a "car problem"? This is a behavioral problem, not an implement problem.

 

[AlCoDog]

Just a heard a guy say if they stopped making guns today, there are still 300 million out there. What is your idea for a solution to the 300 million guns already out there?

 

[DerHntr]

I often hear about “common sense gun laws” and that most people in the country are ok with something being done. I rarely hear what those common sense things actually are.

Raising the minimum age to purchase and requiring a course have recently been offered as options.

The FBI reported 2M stolen guns from 2006 to 2016 but they think that it’s actually underreported and closer to 3.5M. Other reports estimate 75% of crimes committed with a weapon are with stolen weapons. We have a “secure your weapon” problem in this country and the numbers are increasing each year.

A tax credit similar to energy efficient windows, solar panels, or tankless hot water heaters for the purchase of a gun safe would be awesome. I have a 20 gun safe, a finger print scan pistol safe by my bedside, and a pistol safe in my truck. There is a 100% chance my children will be in all of those places alone without me over the next 365 days and a very high chance that if my house or vehicle was burglarized the ******* would be looking for guns and wouldn’t easily be able to get them. If god forbid one of my kids or one of their friends went nuts, they wouldn’t be able to get my weapons. We could solve a lot of our problems by promoting gun responsibility too.

 

[engie]

So your going to stick your head in tha sand and say that the availability of guns in the this country has no bearing on the number of mass shootings? I’m just really sick of people looking to blame everything but the gun. It childish to think otherwise when the data from countries where guns are far harder to obtain legally is so far on the other direction on gun related violence.

Let me guess. You are also 100% behind open borders and sanctuary cities. But we gotta get control of these guns!!1!1

The overall liberal position on any form of increased regulation is the ultimate non-starter as long as you support the illegal and unchecked flow of people and goods into the country. Get some semblance of control there — and the rest of us will be more open to an honest discussion.

Maybe us gun-toting deplorables would be willing to give an inch if you would be willing to pre-emptively take two inches from the actual criminals.

 

[o_Native Son]

I teach at an independent school and it's very hard to discipline smart bullies. Kids who are dumb and bully will get severely consequenced or kicked out after multiple instances even if parents push their weight around (which they always do - which is usually why the kid is a bully in the first place), but smart bullies do things out of sight and out of earshot of adults and apologize in a way they know adults want to hear when anything is brought up. Combine that with aggressive parents who "just want to stand up for their kid" and you get a holy terror that's difficult to punish and who can cause other kids to go in darker directions also (both their "friends" and the kids they push around).

 

[DerHntr]

Your last comment is the reason no one will take you seriously.

Exactly. It’s impossible to come to a different conclusion with similar information unless you are “simple”. Ridiculous.

 

[G-Dawg]

If you pressed a button and every gun in the world dissolved into ashes, there would still be violence, and murder, and suicide. The answer isn't gun control....the answer is kid control. I'm an educator/coach and it is AMAZING the things that parents excuse in their children.

And I'm just gonna say it...Dads need to step up and be 17'in dads and quit leaving a vacuum for crazy *** mommas.

Ok. So how? What's your solution? Decrease the availability of guns? Adam Lanza stole the one he used. Name one, you know, "common sense" gun control law.

 

[G-Dawg]

AMEN. Everybody just needs to start taking their kids camping where there are no cell signals. My dad always made me play a game in the summer and on Saturdays. It was called "GET THE 17 OUTSIDE"

In this digital age where these kids have all these "friends" and are "connected" to everyone and everything, psychologists are also seeing a precipitous rise in loneliness and depression. Social media, video games and tech addiction are big factors in how so many compartmentalize their world. If what they allow into that bubble is all they dwell on or are exposed to, game over.

And it begins with the parents. Know what's going on with your kids.

 

[G-Dawg]

Ok. Let's hear your solution to how you would have prevented yesterday. WHAT LAW, what magic potion, what solution would you have come up with, if you were king for a day, to make this stop? Saying we have too many guns isn't going to stop it.

These are in NO way similar, but liberals wanna say "we have too many illegals here in the country, there's no way to find them all, round them all up and send them out of the country". But they think they can round up and even larger number of weapons.

So your going to stick your head in tha sand and say that the availability of guns in the this country has no bearing on the number of mass shootings? I’m just really sick of people looking to blame everything but the gun. It childish to think otherwise when the data from countries where guns are far harder to obtain legally is so far on the other direction on gun related violence.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Parents. Parents. Parents.

 

[turkish]

Parents. Parents. Parents.

But it’s so much easier to blame the inanimate object.

 

[Lettucexxxx]

It may take a little more time in the mornings but why cant we have a security checkpoint upon entering a campus? One way in, one way out. Make it look like a toll booth with several lanes. A quick trunk pop and metal detector screen of the backpack and or gymbags.......Each car takes less than 1 minute to screen. One person swiping kids and bags, one persons popping trunk. Good to go!.................No toll leaving the ballgame, everyone leaves safe.

 

[BELdog]

The truth is, we're (pro-gun and anti-gun alike) all tired of seeing kids die. We're all sick to death of it. I'd venture that greater than 60% of this board's membership consists of parents. Let's stop pretending that one side consists of simpleton, gun-toting 17s and the other side is a bunch of liberal, gun-grabbing communists. We may not be able to find much common ground on policy, but we can agree that this is a complex issue that will require more than a simple solution.

Stepping up security at our schools is a good first step. No, we don't want our schools to feel like prisons, but there are ways to increase security without putting our kids on lock-down. Armed security doesn't have to look like armed security. Offer incentives to veterans and former police officers to become teachers and coaches and allow them to concealed carry if they wish, with certain qualifications. We need more teachers anyway. Kill a couple birds with one stone. That's only one suggestion. Personally, I'd be okay with the previous poster's suggestion that we have well-paid veterans working security, but I can understand where some would oppose that from a financial standpoint and perception standpoint.

Another thing I'd like to see is for our school systems to stop treating children like adults and let them just fight it out the same way we used to. Is it really the worst thing in the world for a couple of eighth graders to rough each other up a little? If you don't want them fighting in the parking lot, encourage more contact sports like wrestling and boxing which are sanctioned by the schools. These activities let males blow off some steam and release some aggression while teaching them WHEN and how aggression can be used appropriately. Violence in and of itself is not a bad thing. Misplaced violence is a bad thing.

I also agree with Derhunter's idea about gun security. We have seen tax credits for things as silly as storm windows. My guns remain locked in a safe most of the time, but safes are expensive. Would it really be a terrible idea to see a tax break to help provide more gun security in our homes?

Another important thing to realize is that these things start at home. Yes, bullying is bad. I was bullied at one point. It never crossed my mind to shoot anybody because of it. I learned at an early age how it felt to kill something, to watch the life leave the body of another creature. We hunted. We fished. We shot things. We watched war movies and nature shows. We understood that life mattered and that death was permanent as young children. We have to introduce our kids to the real world and the realities of the world at an early age. And, we have to make our kids understand that they aren't freaking special. Treating our kids like precious, little snow flakes contributes to this epidemic. Bullying isn't new and is probably less prevalent today than it was back when it was more socially acceptable. Our kids are just less prepared to deal with it and that is our fault as a society for putting them in bubbles.

One final thing to remember, everything I have seen suggests the firearms used yesterday would not have been affected by any "common sense" gun ban. This has been the crux of the gun enthusiasts argument from the beginning. ANY gun can be dangerous in the wrong hands. One is not inherently more deadly than the other. Gun laws based on certain features just don't make sense. Murders in which firearms are used are down from the days of the original AWB. Those types of laws just don't work and they aren't common sense.

 

[DerHntr]

I also agree with Derhunter's idea about gun security. We have seen tax credits for things as silly as storm windows. My guns remain locked in a safe most of the time, but safes are expensive. Would it really be a terrible idea to see a tax break to help provide more gun security in our homes?

Agree 100% with all of your post.

To the point above: the benefits of the tax break would be to (1) promote a culture of protection of your weapons, (2) reduce the # of stolen guns in our society, (3) increase sales of an item that is heavily produced stateside, (4) reduce accidental deaths of children, and (5) of course hopefully reduce gun crimes.

It’s not a foolproof idea but it is a step in the right direction in my opinion.