I am taking a three week trip next summer and the last 3 days are in Cairo ? I am pretty excited but also a little nervous. Has anyone ever been there or any Muslim country and if so what is the etiquette during the call to prayers throughout the day? Not really looking forward to the Islamic wake up call every morning
ot: Anyone ever spend much time in a Muslim country?
- Thread starter mwulf
- Start date
I spent 8 months in Karachi Pakistan, 3 months Mesirah Oman, 2 months in Beirut all while flying P-3's in the Navy. This was 1988 - 1991 time frame.
Then, best to generally keep a low profile, now I'd say, wear a full burqa
Hate to instill fear in anyone, however I'd struggle to find any reason as an American to be anywhere near the middle east as tourist right now.
BTW: sunsets are incredible
Americans take trips to the Middle East all the time, and Cairo is a common stop on many itineraries. I think that you might be surprised, as long as you aren't an "ugly American" or aren't doing things you shouldn't be doing.
Full disclosure, I am not speaking from experience. Just what I've heard.
Full disclosure, I am not speaking from experience. Just what I've heard.
Does India count? Second largest Muslin populated country in the world, behind Indonesia? Over 200 million muslims, but still a lot less than Hindus.
Spent about a week in Cairo, 7 years ago. Stayed at the Sheraton on the Nile and had a great time. People were exceptionally friendly, but that was early in Obama's presidency (Egyptians were convinced he would ease the fears of tourism to the Middle East), and about a year before the Arab spring. Even at that time, there was significant police presence, with patrol on every street. Worst experience was a police officer offering to take a picture of myself and my friend, and then asking for a couple dollars before giving the camera back.
Just don't go walking down a dark street at night, always be aware of your surroundings, and be respectful of the local customs. If you want to drink alcohol, hotels are really the only option for bars. But you can meet some interesting - progressive - locals and learn a lot about what's happened to Cairo (specifically why locals have to hang out at hotel bars, all the other bars closed when tourism stopped after 9/11). Vastly preferred Cairo to Amman or Dubai, but would visit all again someday.
Just don't go walking down a dark street at night, always be aware of your surroundings, and be respectful of the local customs. If you want to drink alcohol, hotels are really the only option for bars. But you can meet some interesting - progressive - locals and learn a lot about what's happened to Cairo (specifically why locals have to hang out at hotel bars, all the other bars closed when tourism stopped after 9/11). Vastly preferred Cairo to Amman or Dubai, but would visit all again someday.
I actually connect in Amman on the way home ...Hotel is right on the Nile figured that was one thing I didnt want to be cheap on....Figure all tours will just be guided and should be set...
http://www.sofitel.com/gb/hotel-5307-sofitel-cairo-nile-el-gezirah/index.shtml
http://www.sofitel.com/gb/hotel-5307-sofitel-cairo-nile-el-gezirah/index.shtml
Visiting and living in a Muslim country are totally different animals. Visiting, you jusat have to follow the rules while there. A Marine Corps friend of mine told me how his nine year old daughter is now back in America after having lived most of her childhood in Kuwait. He said she is totally messed up and in counseling because women were treated less than dogs in that area. She is back in America now, so I am guessing in short time she will be fine.
I spent a couple of weeks in Indonesia on a couple of different occasions, and I did not feel 100% comfortable there.
There will be people that will just look at you like any other person and be friendly. There will also be people that will look at you like you are the enemy.
My advice is to just be on your best behavior. Do not be the loud, entitled, westerner that thinks the world revolves around them. Be humble and don't draw attention to yourself.
In many ways, it's a neat experience going overseas. If anything, it might give you a new perspective or two that you were not expecting.
I was stunned, landing in Chicago, on just how loud, obnoxious, and fat Americans are after being away for just a short time.
There will be people that will just look at you like any other person and be friendly. There will also be people that will look at you like you are the enemy.
My advice is to just be on your best behavior. Do not be the loud, entitled, westerner that thinks the world revolves around them. Be humble and don't draw attention to yourself.
In many ways, it's a neat experience going overseas. If anything, it might give you a new perspective or two that you were not expecting.
I was stunned, landing in Chicago, on just how loud, obnoxious, and fat Americans are after being away for just a short time.
My daughter studied abroad in Egypt a couple years ago. She always felt safe as long as they stayed with the host group she went with. Many friends questioned me regarding the danger of sending our daughter to such a risky place. I told them I was more worried about her driving through Chicago to get to the airport.
Odd how all these posts pretty much define Islam: submission and conformity
The antithesis to Western thought.... hmmm
The antithesis to Western thought.... hmmm
So, in summary, everyone agree's you're to be on your best behavior and remember you're a guest in their country. I bet when they ask their friends about coming here they hear something a bit different.
I was in the UAE, Saudi, Kuwait and Turkey. Had a good time in each place, can't say I always felt safe. Egypt is more than likely a lot safer than the other in my opinion. It is a dirty place and a lot different than what we are use to seeing.
Some of the stuff we got told not to do, don't stare at their women, don't talk religion or brandish a Bible, don't walk around alone.
Last time I was there is 2005.
Some of the stuff we got told not to do, don't stare at their women, don't talk religion or brandish a Bible, don't walk around alone.
Last time I was there is 2005.
Very nice hotel. Also a good idea to have a guided tour. I traveled with a friend and his wife (my girlfriend, at the time, backed out of the trip). We did not have anything scheduled, basically just improvised the entire time. Asked a taxi to take us to the pyramids and got dropped off in some seedy neighborhood on the outskirts of Cairo. Was a little terrified, but ended up riding a camel about 5 miles through the desert and actually climbed the pyramids. Our "tour guide" nearly get arrested, but they just asked us to come down. Apparently, that's been illegal for some time.
And I agree with the comments about difference between living in and visiting the Middle East. We happened to be there during Ramadan. Not one Muslim person would look my friends wife in the eyes. It became almost comical after awhile. They would acknowledge her, even talk to her, but only while looking at me or her husband. Some would joke about it. Then you go to the Coptic part of Cairo and it's completely different (oldest Christian community in the world).
One other piece of advice: if you have been to Israel, get a new passport. If you are planning to go to Israel as part of this trip, and it's before Cairo, ask them to stamp a "loose page" that is stapled to your passport but removable. Most of the Middle East will not allow someone with an Israeli visa to enter. The exceptions are Jordan and Turkey (which are friendly with Israel). Egypt has flip-flopped on this matter over the years, not sure where they stand today.
I think you would find that if you flipped the scenario, the advice would likely be similar these days
Watched one of the Anthony Bourdain shows a few weeks back as he was in Iran. He had to walk on egg shells at times, and one of his host journalist was arrested, as of that shows end he still was being detained. The other host was female, she somehow managed to get detained and then released.
Overall, his visit there seemed to be very pleasant, as a few of the families he had dinner with were very friendly and open. The younger set really seemed to want to get beyond the troubles within their country and with the United States. Hell, some of them were driving classic American cars including a beautiful 1970's fastback Mustang, and were out driving and horsing around and having fun, just like here, go figure.
However, he was there at the time of the Ayatollahs death anniversary, and there is still a fair amount of animosity towards America when that time rolls around. Overall, it seems a lot of Iranians want a better life outside the constraints of the hierarchy, maybe one day they will get there. If I was traveling over to any Muslim country, I would be a bit edgy, looking over my shoulder so to speak, but respectful and courteous as I would be in their homeland.
Overall, his visit there seemed to be very pleasant, as a few of the families he had dinner with were very friendly and open. The younger set really seemed to want to get beyond the troubles within their country and with the United States. Hell, some of them were driving classic American cars including a beautiful 1970's fastback Mustang, and were out driving and horsing around and having fun, just like here, go figure.
However, he was there at the time of the Ayatollahs death anniversary, and there is still a fair amount of animosity towards America when that time rolls around. Overall, it seems a lot of Iranians want a better life outside the constraints of the hierarchy, maybe one day they will get there. If I was traveling over to any Muslim country, I would be a bit edgy, looking over my shoulder so to speak, but respectful and courteous as I would be in their homeland.
Disagree
This thread seems like it's going to end well. Perhaps you all aren't big travelers, but that's the advice when you go ANYWHERE in the world is to use your kindergarten manners. Say please and thank you, keep your hands to yourself, and expect them to do things their way, not yours, because you're in their home.
I think the last few years have greatly changed traveling to countries in the Middle East. Unfortunately the hard liners have taken over. I'm guessing the majority of people would be welcoming to Americans, but they are no longer in charge. We sat on a plane from Barcelona to Munich a couple of years ago next to a very friendly, engaging Muslim from Cairo. Awesome guy but even he said Cairo was getting very dangerous for everyone and he didn't recommend anyone traveling there.
On the opposite side, in the last 4 years I've been to Sweden, Finland, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Germany, France, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, and Italy. Those people were awesome and we often walked in small towns by ourself. Never once felt threatened and people were extremely welcoming to Americans. I'm 6'4" so I stand out but we always wore plain clothes not to give away our identity. People still started speaking English to us when they saw us-- they just knew by our dress, hair, etc. The last day in Germany I just gave up and wore a St. Louis Cardinal t-shirt. I noticed no difference in behavior toward me then either.
On the opposite side, in the last 4 years I've been to Sweden, Finland, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Germany, France, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, and Italy. Those people were awesome and we often walked in small towns by ourself. Never once felt threatened and people were extremely welcoming to Americans. I'm 6'4" so I stand out but we always wore plain clothes not to give away our identity. People still started speaking English to us when they saw us-- they just knew by our dress, hair, etc. The last day in Germany I just gave up and wore a St. Louis Cardinal t-shirt. I noticed no difference in behavior toward me then either.
You don't think "don't stare at their women, don't talk religion or brandish a [Quran], don't walk around alone" would be good advice for a Muslim visiting America? Particularly one wearing stereotypical "Arab" garb?
That is good advice..I wasn't disagreeing with that...Hell that's good advice when you go to neighborhoods in America if you are an American.
Spent 3 weeks in Pakistan: Lahore, Karachi, Faisalabad (sp?), and we didn't go anywhere without local guides, drivers. Most insane traffic I have ever seen. This was in Sep. 95. We found the common people to be very kind and loving, but there are the radical Islamic faction/priests that are the real danger there. They basically hate Americans, and all other faiths (because they are a threat to the control over the general population that the Muslims have). Everywhere we travelled, we saw filth, disease, death (even a dead horse on a main street that nobody attempted to remove, they just walked around it like no big deal). Quickly saw that the Muslim government does nothing for its people, just keep them in poverty.
You do realize we have this thing called the Nation of Islam in this country and several millions of Muslims in this country. That don't take that advice because they don't have too.
Millions of people migrate here every year, many are Muslims....do you think they are doing that because they have to live like you say....no they don't.
I spent 8 months in Karachi Pakistan, 3 months Mesirah Oman, 2 months in Beirut all while flying P-3's in the Navy. This was 1988 - 1991 time frame.
Then, best to generally keep a low profile, now I'd say, wear a full burqa
Hate to instill fear in anyone, however I'd struggle to find any reason as an American to be anywhere near the middle east as tourist right now.
BTW: sunsets are incredible
So what you're telling us is that every news story about a Muslim person getting attacked or spit on or threatened, every story about a mosque being vandalized, those are all lies?
Spent time in Cairo and loved it. We hired an egyptian guide, (the hotel should be able to refer you.) He picked us up and drove everywhere for days for $200. He was a certified Egyptologist and took us to Giza, Saqqara, Memphis, The Coptic and Egyptian museum, got us camel rides and was absolutely fabulous. Would go again in a heartbeat the great thing about going now is ITS NOT CROWDED! We had saqqara to ourselves! Unbelievable trip.
Also spent time in Instanbul. I found the call to prayer enchanting and we went everywhere by subway. No problems just be respectful. Common sense.
Also spent time in Instanbul. I found the call to prayer enchanting and we went everywhere by subway. No problems just be respectful. Common sense.
There are stories of all Americans getting that type of treatment...a kid was just shot by a cop because he wanted to defend himself from being bullied....He was dealing with a daily anguish.
I mean it's not like you hear about 50 Muslims killed in a nightclub, or 14 muslims killed at a Christmas party, or 12 Muslims killed in Ft Hood ...,you know sense there is mass hysteria and we are killing Muslims left and right.........stop perpetuating media driven lies.
The most hate crimes since 9/11 up til last year was against Jews.
This is 2012:
- 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
- 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
- 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
- 6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
- 2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
- 0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
- 8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.)
We just had an election where people were afraid to admit they were voting for Trump because the opposite party acted like animals....Thus why you were shocked that he won the Presidency........People are a holes regardless of your religion here.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final
Last edited:
Forgot to mention, don't recommend renting a car in Cairo. There is absolutely no observance of traffic laws. 3 lane highways become 7 lane roads. No one has side mirrors. Cars pass at 60 mph one inch apart. It's terrifying. Have a guide drive you they are experts.
I said it was good advice, not that they have to take it. Westerners can usually get away with some degree of misbehavior in the Middle East and come out ok. Arabs minding their own business don't typically get murdered by their racist neighbor in Oklahoma.
I'm not a believer in cultural relativism and I'm not going to argue that America is equivalent to backwards societies in 3rd world countries. Just saying that respecting the traditions and culture of another country while you're there is generally the best approach, regardless of where you go. The consequences of failing to do so probably scale with the level of religiousness, tribalism, and dogmatism present in the place you're visiting.
Why, do you mean to tell us that nothing is all one way or another and it's probably not useful to act like everything bad happens outside our own in-group and nothing bad happens inside it?
Its the end of a trip that includes Sweden, London, Germany, Prague, Alps, Italy and Greece....I have been overseas many times just never in a predominantly Muslim country. I am actually looking forward to some culture shock its just part of the experience. Thinking about using Memphis Tours and choosing from their menu of options. Hotel charges 70 bucks for airport pickup and its a no brainer...last thing I want is to try to navigate Cairo at 1am
Anyplace is scary if you let it be. Don't swim with the local sharks like a tourist and stick to the beaten path and you'll do great.
We went to the Dominican Republic and at the edges of the resort they had guards with assault rifles. 100 yards further were tents full of merchants looking to sucker you into paying $80 for cheap ****. I'm sure if I'd gone into town and gone to the clubs at night I'd have looked like I had a big sign over my head that said, "ROB THIS MORON."
We stayed on the resort and did guided tours for stuff, it was a lot of fun when I wasn't crapping my brains out from the bad water.
We went to the Dominican Republic and at the edges of the resort they had guards with assault rifles. 100 yards further were tents full of merchants looking to sucker you into paying $80 for cheap ****. I'm sure if I'd gone into town and gone to the clubs at night I'd have looked like I had a big sign over my head that said, "ROB THIS MORON."
We stayed on the resort and did guided tours for stuff, it was a lot of fun when I wasn't crapping my brains out from the bad water.
Your stats, which are only for religious-based hate crimes and not all hate crimes, are from 2012, not 2016, where things have changed dramatically. Also, 11.6% does not equal 0%. The argument that another group has it worse does not mean that there isn't a problem with any other group.
I live in a community where there is a significant Muslim population, possibly even a majority. I have had no problems with them, and the fact that they are night owls and great cooks, I can get incredible food at very late hours (a huge bonus!). Their community is growing here because it is unsafe for them to live in many other communities, particularly rural and suburban areas.
I lived in the Middle East for several years and visited Cairo twice. It is huge and has large slums. The tourist areas are clear and fine. If you get a chance to get out of Cairo and take a boat trip down the Nile in Southern Egypt (requires a plane flight from Cairo to the starting point) that is spectacular.
Positive point: The dollar goes a long way in Egypt. You will be amazed how little you spend. Guides are useful and inexpensive. Don't be too proud to hire a guide from an established tourism company.
Negative point: Go to your doctor and explain that you are going to Egypt and want enough of the hardcore anti-diahrrea pills for your family. I have never known an American to not get sick on their first visit. If you have those pills, it will knock it out in about a day and you will be fine the rest of the trip.
Another rule: At tourist locations, the hawkers that are trying to sell you things will physically hand them to you. Do not take them. If to take it, you buy it. It is difficult to overcome the natural reaction to accept something that is handed to you but do it.
The Sphinx and Pyramids are cool but the real action is in the Museum of Antiquities. try and go on a weekday when the crowds are down.
Lived around a bunch of Indian and Pakistani people in my old neighborhood in Rogers Park. Never a single problem with them. My downstairs neighbor from Africa was a little weird, but I don't think he was Muslim based on how I'd hear him yelling things like, "I CAST YOU OUT WITH JESUS LIGHTNING! I CAST YOU OUT WITH JESUS THUNDER!!!"
Not sure what sect that is exactly, but I'm gonna say not Muslim.
Not all Muslim countries are created equal. I spent a total of a month in Senegal (90% Muslim) in 03 and 04. Extraordinarily kind people.
Umm..we are talking about muslims...and the conversation is whether they are being harassed extraordinarily.
It means its over exaggerated.....That's an overwhelming difference no matter how you slice it.
That's the latest from the FBI
I have no problems with Muslims. Just the ones who support terrorist and their stance on homosexuality that everyone completely ignores.
Why would it be unsafe for them to live in suburban and rural areas?
I ignored that...especially since there are plenty of rural Muslim communities in the US....,and in the suburbs, especially here in Texas.
Hell 2 convicted terrorists have lived here in Texas in suburbs located near my home....including the Ohio St attacker.