And there's the rub! We've spent the last four years in last place. This year its fourth place or bust! And I'm excited!!
Plus, my old high school teammate is now the manager!
OT: Baseball Free Agents
- Thread starter Hungry Jack
- Start date
Plus, my old high school teammate is now the manager!
You do know its ok to not be an expert on everything.
Having an opinion is fine, but to treat everything you say as fact is kind of silly. Who wouldn't want Machado or Harper in their line-up if they could afford it? This whole discussion is insane.
That’s correct as per my post just prior to this one. I also didn’t know Jay Cutler but I saw and read enough of him over the years to form an opinion of him as a player and a leader. I’d put Machado and Cutler in what I like to call the JEFF George category of player, million dollar talents with 5 cent hearts and character.
Who said I view everything I believe as fact? I have a strong opinion on the matter and I try to support it. When it comes to sports, I have a lot of strong opinions because I happen to be a sports fanatic. If I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter, I don’t chime in. There are many threads on this board that I don’t participate in.
Regarding your point on Machado and Harper, apparently most major league teams don’t want them on their teams for the price they want to be paid. That’s why no one has signed them. There are several teams that can “afford” to pay them that price, but don’t feel they are worth that price. If those guys were interested in playing for a short term, 15 mm per year contract, then I am sure they would find stronger demand. That’s quite a different proposition than what was being discussed on this thread.
Wow. That's pretty cool.
It must be pretty hard for pitchers in that park. They have lots of young arms who looked pretty talented, but Great American seems like a launching pad.
I'm a Cardinal fan, and after watching Walt Jocketty take advantage of some buy low scenarios to get guys like Rolen, Edmonds, MacGwire, Woody Williams, Will Clark, and Larry Walker (and stumbling onto Pujols in the 13th round) into St. Louis, I was dubious his strategy could be replicated in Cincy.
What a compelling arguement! I think I’ll keep trusting my judgement about character and leadership over yours. It has served me well over the years.
Finally you’ve said something we can agree on. He’ll be paid what the market deems he is worth. My guess is that number is nowhere near where he or his agent thought it would be.
Not surprising to me. Surprising to anyone who believed the hype that Machado or Harper were 10 year, $300+mm type players. They are not.
I like you Jack, so I'm going to ignore your last paragraph.
The Reds haven't developed a good pitcher in a long time. Johnny Cueto is the only one in the past couple of decades. They do have a kid named Luis Castillo who they got from the Marlins that may be the next team ace, but its very much still TBD. Last year was his first, full season. We'll see how he emerges this year.
The Reds should have a fairly decent bullpen this year, though, so if they can find some starters that can fight their way through five innings each night, they might have the offense and bullpen to win a few games.
The problem remains that the they are in the same division with the Cubs who are now no longer a laughing stock (dammit!). And the Cards should probably be better this year (dammit! dammit!!). And the Brewers are good now too, though maybe they'll regress this year after the surprise that was this past season.
Yeah. The NL Central is pretty solid. The Cards have some young talented arms, and maybe Goldschmidt pushes them through, but I still think the Cubs are tops. The Brewers overachieved last year, but are still a good team.
Hopefully the Reds don't bury themselves in April again. That was brutal.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if they end up in that ballpark (or even more) on an AAV basis. The sticking point seems to be length of the contract more than the dollar figure.
Big difference between a 5 year $150 million deal and a 10 year $300 million deal. This isn’t football, every single dollar of a baseball contract is guaranteed.
Am I supposed to be shocked by this insight?
Thinking more like 7-8 years at $230-240 (as much as ~$33MM AAV) on the high end. Don't think teams want to commit high dollars to guys in their mid-30s after watching Pujols, Hayward, etc. turn into absolute albatrosses... but they will pay for "prime" years.
I don’t care if you are shocked or not. You implied that AAV is as relevant in baseball. It is not. Total contract size is what matters. I’ll be surprised if either of them signs a nine figure contract that starts with a 2.
Ok, man. “Player doesn’t get exactly the contract demanded by him and his agent” isn’t exactly ground-breaking.
So you’re saying best case for either is $199 in total value? I think I would take that bet.
They aren't because of supply/demand and other economic factors. Not because they aren't "leaders" like you claim.
Your judgement is what you see based on TV. I am telling you you are wrong based on experience with people in the industry and have dissected this exact player's free agency to its most microscopic intricacy. I literally speak with agents, players, scouts and the GM OF THE ORGANIZATION IN CHICAGO TRYING TO SIGN HIM regularly.
So I will trust my judgement of his character and leadership over yours, which has next to no validity at all
I am saying that i don’t think Machado will get an offer worth $200mm or more and Harper won’t sign one that “only” starts with a two. Neither are worth it.
Wrong again. Machado already has an offer north of $200MM, from the White Sox. 7 years, about 30MM AAV right now with plenty of room to budge should they need to
Yes, right supply and demand. There is no demand for them at the price they are seeking. Of that we are in agreement.
Really? Then he should sign it ASAP before Reinsdorf comes to his senses. I heard the number is 7/$175mm and I am skeptical that Jerry would fork that kind of money over. Doesn’t really matter. As I said, the White Sox signing Machado for $175mm or $210mm would only be the latest evidence that Reinsdorf owns two of the worst run franchises in professional sports. heck, the Bulls game Felicio $32mm over 4 years and Jabari parker $20 MM per year to sit on the bench. Brilliant!
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You heard that from Bruce Levine who got shot down by Rosenthal, Lozano, Passan and others. He is wrong and his source on that was garbage. Hahn himself was furious about that leak because it was a bad look for the organization
And again you're looking at this situation in black and white and spewing your opinion as fact. "Evidence that Reinsdorf owns 2 of the worst run franchises in professional sports."
You provided no evidence of how this signing is actually evidence, you just don't like Machado or Harper because of a false narrative you've developed from watching them play on TV. I provided *some* evidence as to why you're wrong, as much as I can on a public forum anyways, and you just keep going.
If you'd like more evidence to why you're wrong, I'll direct you to their Fangraphs pages.
The White Sox have about $15MM committed to payroll before arb deals next winter. They have the ability to absorb a $30MM AAV contract better than anyone in baseball right now sans maybe a team or two.
Are we talking about facts or opinions? Neither side has any inside info so this is all based on opinions. How can my opinion be wrong? Should I change my opinion because a few people disagree with me? Sorry, I don’t form opinions casually and I don’t change them casually either.
Maybe you have a difficult time distinguishing facts from opinions. reinsdorf owning two of the worst franchises in professionals sports is an opinion. That’s an opinion that is not unique to me but it is still an opinion. I cited two terrible Bulls signings as factual evidence supporting that opinion but that doesn’t make my original statement a fact. I could cite many more factual examples of terrible management decisions for both the Sox and the Bulls that further support my opinion but it’s still an opinion. There are no amount of facts I could cite that support my opinion that would make it a fact. You have a different opinion and are entitled to it but you haven’t cited any facts to support your opinion and certainly not any facts that compel me to change my opinion. Right now the only indisputable fact is that neither Harper nor Machado have signed and spring training is on the cusp of starting. Infer from it what you want.
He’s a life coach to his kids. Don’t question his ability to spot leadership from the couch.
Did you read any of @chicagocatfan24 ’s posts? He’s literally a professional White Sox/baseball blogger.
I just got around to reading your last paragraph. I am not sure which I find more laughable. The implication that just because the White Sox have the payroll flexibility to pay either of those guys $30mm per year on along term contract, then that makes it the right thing to do from a business or baseball perspective. Or alternatively that just because the White Sox have the payroll flexibility to pay either of those guys $30mm per year, then that’s what Reinsdorf will actually do. Neither of those guys are worth that kind of money and I am pretty sure Reinsdorf knows it.