OT: Buying a rent house

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
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Looking for some thoughts on purchasing a rent house as an investment. I've read about the common advantages/disadvantages, looking to get some first-hand info.

I live in a very small town, lots of housing available for cheap, but there's virtually no "decent" homes to rent. You can get like a 3/1 home built in last 20 years for ~65,000 or less (seriously). From what I understand, one can obtain financing for 20% down with good credit.

On the one hand, having a tangible asset producing cash flow monthly sounds great. On the other, should I merely take that ~15,000 or whatever and pay down the mortgage on my house and/or throw it in Vanguard?

I'll hang up & listen.
 

Wicked Pissah

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
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In my experience, cheap renters arent worth it and a losing battle. The higher the rent, the more reliable the renter. I dont have small town experience but own one rental. The mortgage is $1250 for a 2br/2ba and the renter pays $1800.

If it was me, instead of buying 8 cheap apts or houses, Id invest in one or 2 nice ones. Of course, a small town is probably completely different.
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
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Thanks, and I think I'm in line for what you're thinking except scaled down. My sense is that about 800-900 is all you can squeeze out of a renter here; hell, most rentals here go for 300-450 (and are terrible).
 

WrapItDog

Senior
Aug 23, 2012
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Your doing good if you break even on a rental property until you get it paid off. However someone is buying you a house and there are tax advantages. Once the property is paid off it's money. I started out buying fixer uppers, living in it long enough to avoid capital gains if I sold it, or turn it into a rental with little to no money down. Owning rental property is a pain in the *** and not for most people.
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,171
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Have you thought about investing that $15K in a property tax sale?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to discourage you from going the rental route as I'd be the last person on this board to be qualified for that, but I know enough about it to know that there are risks involved and possibly a lot of your free time as well. Also, from the market that you're describing, it doesn't sound like the property values are going to be skyrocketing any time soon.

With a property tax sale, the specific rules will vary by county, but you basically pay off someone's delinquent property tax while being guaranteed an annual return of usually 15-20% when the owner finally pays it off. If they don't within a certain amount of time, the deed to the home/land is yours. Granted, there's some due diligence that needs to be done here before you start bidding, but it's a pretty good way to invest and get involved in the real estate market without committing quite so much risk or your time.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
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i suggest an older home as they hold up MUCH better to the abuse of a renter. lath and plaster >>> drywall and solid wood doors >>> the kind you can punch holes in.

renters dont give a damn about anything so the more choices you make with durability in mind, the better.

financially, its a good decision, but the most input should be finding the right tenants. you can never fully trust any of them, but the more trustworthy they are, the fewer headaches you will have. maybe these are things you have considered, but they have been helpful to me. good luck.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,905
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The interest the owner pays to redeem the property from a tax sale is 8% statewide. He has 2 years to redeem it and then full title can pass to you (you have to take it to court to get your title perfected, if the owner is still living there that can be a bit of a problem). There are some real good investments in a tax sale, but there will also be a lot of worthless pieces of property that will be a liability if you buy them (which is sometimes the reason the property is in the tax sale to begin with).
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,171
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Unless something has significantly changed since last year, I can tell you right now that Destoto county is 18% and the owner has 3 years to pay it off, so I'm not sure that those rules are statewide.

I agree with your point about the worthless property, though. This is definitely not something that you'd bid on sight unseen. Gotta do your due diligence and find out as much background on the parcels as you possibly can.
 

natchezdawg

Redshirt
Oct 4, 2009
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Get the $15,000 into a Roth over the next 3 years. Invest said $15,000

in a low cost ETF that follows good dividend paying stocks. Spend the time you would have wasted on knucklehead tenants playing golf and drinking beer. You'll thank me later.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,905
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You are correct. It is 18%. If you buy a decent property, it's a very good investment. I do know people who have managed to lose money investing in tax sales. Not sure how much is because the guy just bought bad properties or if he just stole their money.

Edit: If anyone is interested, the tax sales will be in August at your county courthouse.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,905
26,340
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Roth not necessarily the best choice for a retirement plan. You can only put about $5,000 into it per year anyway. Generally, if you're in a low tax bracket, go with a Roth. If you're in a higher bracket a traditional IRA or 401(k) may be a better choice. In fact, the 401(k) is almost always the better choice until you max out your employer's matching contribution.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
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Whatever I do in life, I'm coming back to Starkville and buying as many houses in the Cotton District as possible. Cheap, little to them, and they go for around $500/room. Most of them were built to withstand the test of time too. One specifically I spent a lot of time in had hardy pine everything, plaster walls, and industrial everything else. My friends paid out the *** for it, and on the surface they were only getting a ****** house with awful appliances 30 feet from campus and 30 feet in the other direction from the bars.

If you get stuck with some ****** tenants, keep their deposit and get new ones the following year.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,346
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Looking for some thoughts on purchasing a rent house as an investment. I've read about the common advantages/disadvantages, looking to get some first-hand info. I live in a very small town, lots of housing available for cheap, but there's virtually no "decent" homes to rent. You can get like a 3/1 home built in last 20 years for ~65,000 or less (seriously). From what I understand, one can obtain financing for 20% down with good credit. On the one hand, having a tangible asset producing cash flow monthly sounds great. On the other, should I merely take that ~15,000 or whatever and pay down the mortgage on my house and/or throw it in Vanguard? I'll hang up & listen.

I would not be excited about buying rental property in most small towns in Mississippi. The exception would be small towns outside of growing areas, but even then they'd have to be close enough to be considered 'suburbs'. In most places, you get cash flow with cheap properties and with more expensive properties, you need some appreciation to get a good ROE. If you're not in a growing area, you need to expect depreciation, not appreciation. That means you basically need to generate positive cash flow immediately with a 15 year note. The nicer and more expensive a rental you have, the more hesitant people are to spend money renting and the more likely they are to qualify to buy something, even if it's not as nice as what they can rent. So you generally end up getting a lot of turnover, with people renting until they can find something, although you do occasionally get the long term renters, which turns a decent rental property into a great one not just by cutting down on vacancies but generally by cutting down on headaches.

That said, there are good buys everywhere and there's not a whole lot I wouldn't touch for the right price. If I were going to buy in a small town in Mississippi, the first thing I'd look for is which direction the housing is 'migrating.' Lots of small towns have a clear trend as far as building nicer, newer houses on one end of town and the other end being the 'bad side of town.' Even though the population is stagnant, there are still houses being built and some areas see some appreciation as older units in the bad part of town essentially become worthless. If you can buy something that you think will still be decent in 15 years that will cash flow with a 15 year note and 20% down payment, that will probably be a good buy. I would not buy on the lagging end of the trend because even though you can likely cash flow it immediately and own it out right in 15 years, you likely will have put up with the headaches of rental property to own a house that is worth 75% or less of your original purchase price.

You can also make good cash flow in crap properties as long as you can handle the headache. I would not mess with that, especially not with one property, unless you can get a rental manager that is already dealing with a lot of properties in the low end market. Chasing people for money, going to justice court, having to do repairs everytime the rental is turned over, being threatened by your bad tenants and having to evict the ones that are sympathetic, etc. to me it's only efficient if you basically make that your full time job and that would not be a good job.

The other option to think about is just going out of town altogether. It will cut down on a lot of options as far as renters, but you don't have to worry as much about the neighborhood going bad if there is no neighborhood, and to me it seems like the people that want to be in the country tend to not be as bad of tentants. The one thing you have to be careful depending on county codes is whether somebody will throw up trailers around you after you've bought a house.

All that said, I don't know that I'd bother with rentals unless you are maxing out your tax advantaged savings. The problem I did not think about before I got into them is that you take all this depreciation and avoid showing consistent small profits that would be taxed at your marginal tax rate. When you're done with depreciation and want to sell, all of the sudden you have a significant gain that is not taxed as a capital gain. You can keep doing 1031 exchanges to avoid this I guess but looking back at it, I probably undervalued the difference in tax advantages of tax preferred retirement savings versus rental properties. Still not sure what the right differential is.
 
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rynodawg

Senior
May 29, 2007
1,162
412
83
For rent (and cash flow) that low, I'd say it's not really worth the hassle. Any major repair (AC for example) will wipe out a year of your profits.

I am an 'accidental investor' who stupidly bought in 2007, so renting now out of necessity. If I could get rid of it and break even at sale I would in a second. Luckily it's in a military town, so TONS of good renters with stable income,, but I think all military folks learned their lesson in 2008 so few buyers. Also I get to write off thousands off my taxes every year. yay.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
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That was good info, but damn... Break it up a little, please.
Not sure what is causing that. Noticed a problem the other day but I assumed it was something going on with the site, not my browser. I downloaded some new security stuff that affects scripts so I'm guessing that is doing something to my line breaks. Even when I go back and edit to add paragraphs back in, it still puts it all together.

ETA: Figured out how to allow individual scripts, and apparently that was the problem.
 
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GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
19,461
16,671
113
My wifes father has 15 rental homes. It is a pain. In my opinion, if I was going to do it I would just make it a HUD rental. You will get your money from them. However you will have more maintance.
 

dawgpound11

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2003
572
0
0
I have a bunch of rental houses/duplexes. Call your local bankers and tell them you're in the market for foreclosures. We bought about 7 straight from the bank on the cheap. Since they were getting out of a bad note, they also financed them 100% for staying with them instead of moving to another bank.
 

BoomBoom.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
810
0
0
Whatever I do in life, I'm coming back to Starkville and buying as many houses in the Cotton District as possible. Cheap, little to them, and they go for around $500/room. Most of them were built to withstand the test of time too. One specifically I spent a lot of time in had hardy pine everything, plaster walls, and industrial everything else. My friends paid out the *** for it, and on the surface they were only getting a ****** house with awful appliances 30 feet from campus and 30 feet in the other direction from the bars.

If you get stuck with some ****** tenants, keep their deposit and get new ones the following year.

That is the opposite of everything i have seen and heard of Cotton District buildings.
 
Sep 1, 2011
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Along these lines...I have 3 sons and the first will be going to college in a couple of years. I hope it is MSU, but who knows (I live in TX). If I knew he was going to MSU, I would like to buy something and possibly rent out other parts of the condo/apt, or at least have somewhere for me to stay on football weekends. Where are the best options for something like this in Starkville, or is this not worth it?
 

goindhoo

Junior
Feb 29, 2008
1,191
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The rules are statewide. Interest accrues at 1.5% per month until paid after feb 1. Tax sales are in August and if you buy the property at the sale the owner has two two years from that August date to redeem the tax sale by paying taxes and accrued interest through the date of payment. Don't think you will automatically wind up with the property after two years following the expiration of the redemption period. There are certain notices that must be given to the former owner and if not perfectly done, the owner gets the property back after paying back taxes and interest. Hardly any tax sales are conducted in complete compliance with laws and the laws favor the prior owner. Like other have said, due your due diligence and just bank on getting repaid the taxes with 18% per annum interest.
 

YardBarker

Redshirt
Feb 10, 2013
318
0
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Along these lines...I have 3 sons and the first will be going to college in a couple of years. I hope it is MSU, but who knows (I live in TX). If I knew he was going to MSU, I would like to buy something and possibly rent out other parts of the condo/apt, or at least have somewhere for me to stay on football weekends. Where are the best options for something like this in Starkville, or is this not worth it?

I would probably recommend academy village condos. They do require driving to campus and entertainment but they rent well and sell well too. They offer 2 and 3 bedroom floor plans.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
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That is the opposite of everything i have seen and heard of Cotton District buildings.

I know a big knock on them early on was the foundation. Rather than conventional piers, I think most of them are sitting on 4x4's or maybe 6x6's. Not sure how they're set in the ground but I assume in concrete footings or something to prevent rot. Heard Dan Camp talk about it one time and he said people thought he was stupid for building them that way but that his way was just as good while costing less. May have the details wrong their as it was a long time ago.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,346
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Along these lines...I have 3 sons and the first will be going to college in a couple of years. I hope it is MSU, but who knows (I live in TX). If I knew he was going to MSU, I would like to buy something and possibly rent out other parts of the condo/apt, or at least have somewhere for me to stay on football weekends. Where are the best options for something like this in Starkville, or is this not worth it?

Are you talking about renting a place where your son lives and you can kick him out of when come into town? Or just renting a house for a few years and then using it as a weekend house in Starkville?