OT: Disneyland family brawl

[Showenuff]

How do you explain the phenomenon that one undersized person will step up to confront a much more intimidating person, but that that same person plus a bunch of other dudes won't when they're all there? If it's truly about courage, how is it that technically better odds with numbers reduces courage?

It's more complicated than you seem willing to consider.

Bud, if you don't understand right from wrong, if you don't understand what the word "courage" really means, and if you don't understand that there ain't to many fellas on earth who can take 9 guys rushing them at once to get them subdued, then there's not a lot I can teach you here.

I know where you're going here, and know where you want to take it. But I'm not. But somebody got it right here. There are people who will always watch , and there are people who will react. I react. I'm NOT going to stand aside and watch a weaker person get hurt or attacked by a stronger one, even if that stronger one is stronger than me. If that bothers you, excuse the hell outta me. Hopefully, when some big dude walks up and punches your wife in a crowd, Me or somebody like me will be there to help. You know....somebody with courage. And AT that moment, I won't be worried about legal ramifications. AND I'll just about BET, a cop in that situation, isn't arresting a guy who helped in a situation like that. But Dat, in closing, I feel like if someone punched one of your loved ones...you'd find yourself doing the right thing, no matter what. AND, I'd almost bet, had you been near the mentioned incident, you'd have responded in some way to help, at least I hope you would.

 

[TheDude1]

I haven't seen the video and really don't care to but I like the direction this thread has taken. Teachers, 1st responders and our troops are under paid and under appreciated. One of my wishes is that someday all of these people are well compensated and more appreciated for their service to their fellow man. OFC

Properly figuring the value of valued jobs that do not generate money is tough, especially in a country in which money and profit is considered one of the most Important things in the world.

 

[skysdad]

Properly figuring the value of valued jobs that do not generate money is tough, especially in a country in which money and profit is considered one of the most Important things in the world.

Just grateful for all of them. When you see CEO's and others making multi millions of dollars per year every single one of them had teachers in school. Every single one of them have had a 1st responder involved of their life and every single one of them if not for the troops to defend every single one of us have so much to be grateful to them. OFC

 

[TheDude1]

Bud, if you don't understand right from wrong, if you don't understand what the word "courage" really means, and if you don't understand that there ain't to many fellas on earth who can take 9 guys rushing them at once to get them subdued, then there's not a lot I can teach you here.

I know where you're going here, and know where you want to take it. But I'm not. But somebody got it right here. There are people who will always watch , and there are people who will react. I react. I'm NOT going to stand aside and watch a weaker person get hurt or attacked by a stronger one, even if that stronger one is stronger than me. If that bothers you, excuse the hell outta me. Hopefully, when some big dude walks up and punches your wife in a crowd, Me or somebody like me will be there to help. You know....somebody with courage. And AT that moment, I won't be worried about legal ramifications. AND I'll just about BET, a cop in that situation, isn't arresting a guy who helped in a situation like that. But Dat, in closing, I feel like if someone punched one of your loved ones...you'd find yourself doing the right thing, no matter what. AND, I'd almost bet, had you been near the mentioned incident, you'd have responded in some way to help, at least I hope you would.

I suspect Dat knows the difference between right and wrong, knows that nine men can beat one, and would defend a family member. I certainly don’t think he would be bothered by anyone helping someone else. I think he was pointing out that there are interesting psychological effects at play in these sorts of situations.

 

[Dattier]

Bud, if you don't understand right from wrong, if you don't understand what the word "courage" really means, and if you don't understand that there ain't to many fellas on earth who can take 9 guys rushing them at once to get them subdued, then there's not a lot I can teach you here.

I know where you're going here-

Actually, your answers pretty much demonstrate you don't have the slightest idea what I'm talking about. It sounds as if you're afraid and getting defensive that I'm not agreeing that it's a simple topic.

Bystander syndrome is a real thing. An individual is more likely to step in when they know they're the only person who can. The same person in a crowd, and every other person in the crowd, is more likely to hesitate because it's not as clearly their responsibility. If it were about having the courage or morality of stepping in, it would make no sense that an individual would be less courageous or moral in a crowd.

Hopefully, when some big dude walks up and punches your wife in a crowd, Me or somebody like me will be there to help. You know....somebody with courage

Yikes. Lay off the 'roids, show.

 

[Dattier]

I suspect Dat knows the difference between right and wrong, knows that nine men can beat one, and would defend a family member. I certainly don’t think he would be bothered by anyone helping someone else. I think he was pointing out that there are interesting psychological effects at play in these sorts of situations.

Good thing an interesting psychological effect hasn't punched show's wife in front of him. He seems pretty terrified of that.

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

Everyone agrees that idiots/cowards that hit women should be stopped/shamed. Let’s just stop there and end this thread.

Basketball season can’t come soon enough!

 

[TheDude1]

Maybe something about some leftover “don’t go against the herd” thing? Or is it a “eh, someone else has got it” sort of thing?

I wonder, if they studied people of great charisma and/or leadership, if they are folks who tend to be more apt to jump into something even if they are part of a crowd? I would assume there would be some correlation?

 

[Showenuff]

Exactly where I thought you’d go Dat, you’re so disappointing, and predictable after someone challenges your little political taunts you launch all the time. All I said was LOL. You’ve been butthurt ever since. I don’t do roids, I tire quickly arguing with crybabies as well. It’s just a weakness of mine. You and dude snuggle up, talk about the inner mind of the bystander , **** like that. Women’s soccer, purple haired heroes, all that stuff that makes you’re lil thingy tingle. Y’all finish breaking it all down, should be some seriously interesting ****.

 

[Dattier]

Exactly where I thought you’d go Dat, you’re so disappointing, and predictable after someone challenges your little political taunts you launch all the time. All I said was LOL. You’ve been butthurt ever since. I don’t do roids, I tire quickly arguing with crybabies as well. It’s just a weakness of mine. You and dude snuggle up, talk about the inner mind of the bystander , **** like that. Women’s soccer, purple haired heroes, all that stuff that makes you’re lil thingy tingle. Y’all finish breaking it all down, should be some seriously interesting ****.

I went with legit psychology where you went with Hulk-smash and you claim to think anything? lol

I'm not sure how this is political or where I pretended it is, so it seems you're the one with the chip on the one shoulder, looking over the other shoulder for some politically-tinged boogeyman.

And it doesn't take a genius to predict that there's going to be some deserved clapback when you insinuate that you would have to defend my wife for me. Seriously, what kind of d-bag meathead do you have to be to go there?

 

[TheDude1]

Exactly where I thought you’d go Dat, you’re so disappointing, and predictable after someone challenges your little political taunts you launch all the time. All I said was LOL. You’ve been butthurt ever since. I don’t do roids, I tire quickly arguing with crybabies as well. It’s just a weakness of mine. You and dude snuggle up, talk about the inner mind of the bystander , **** like that. Women’s soccer, purple haired heroes, all that stuff that makes you’re lil thingy tingle. Y’all finish breaking it all down, should be some seriously interesting ****.

Wtf? What in the good **** does women’s soccer or purple hair or politics or dicks have to do with a discussion of why people react differently in crowds than they would alone? Are you literally not reading what is being typed?

You think “tiring quickly of crybabies” is your weakness?

I thought your weakness was “being a dense fake-macho drama queen incapable of deeper thought?”

It must be odd, claiming to love Duke, a place that is all about thinking and analysis, but then getting so triggered when people don’t just say “RA RA I PUNCH PEOPLE BECAUSE I AM AWESOME!” but instead use a discussion board to get into an actual discussion of why people might do something when they are alone and, in theory, in more danger but NOT do something when they are in a group.

And btw, there are people who love Duke more than you. You know... people who lived it, whose life was shaped by it, who bled and sweat for it, who devoted years of their life just to get to the place, to wear the uniform and walk the halls, and then more years when we WERE there, years of work, who were actual Blue Devils and went up against Tar Heels and Yellow Jackets and Terps and the like with that patch on our uniform or that jersey on our backs. Shocking, I know. To those sorts of people, you’ll always be a touch of a poser. Just an fyi.

Oh, and seems I have a weakness too, something about random dicks who fly off the handle and spout ******** about other guys wives (something most men know you don’t do), and then try to act like it was something meaningful or justified. Maybe you should stick with wishing one of our former players gets his *** kicked?

 

[TheDude1]

Btw, for those who are interested, here is a bit on the bystander effect. One of the two primary guys who started the research on it currently works at UNC, actually, as the director of the Center for Human Science

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

I didn’t realize where the name came from... a woman who got murdered in NYC. I remember this story... she was screaming and yelling, and everyone heard her, but nobody came to help. I think that’s connected to why they say to always yell FIRE and not HELP when you need help. Funny that the first researchers who looked into it used a “damsel in distress” situation, given what happened in the original video.

It reminds me of two situations in my life.

One was one of the car accidents I was first on scene for. It was in Burlington, NC... I was at home getting changed, and I heard this noise, couldn’t tell what it was, and then heard what sounded like a long, ongoing car horn. I remember thinking to myself ‘Oh, now what? Whatever, someone will take care of it.’ and then thinking ‘Wait, no, don’t wait for someone else, get out there!’ Turned out it was a kid in a black Camaro, had been driving too fast and it was wet and skidded off the road into some farm equipment. He was a bit beat up and cut up, but he ended up being okay. I was in my damn boxers out in that field with him, and at the Circle K when I ran to call for help, and the EMT crew. I remember the ‘someone else will take care of it’ vividly.

Another was when the wife and I were living in NYC. We had a third floor apartment, overlooking a big back yard shared with like ten other buildings. So we are lying in bed one night, maybe 1 am, and we hear someone making noise outside. Sounds like drunken crying, like seriously drunk, can’t even make out the words. Maybe a guys girl dumped him? So we are lying there, getting more and more annoyed every minute... like, if you are going to get wasted, can you do inside and not keep us up... when suddenly we understand one single word... “HELP!” Holy **** the adrenaline in that second... it was like getting hit by lightning. So I lean out the window to look with my big *** maglight, and there, two buildings down lying on the pavement almost entirely behind a fence, is a guy. I was out the door in a second, flashlight and a belt as a tourniquet, trying to find my way into that courtyard. Eventually the doorman who was on duty and I got into the building next door, and then the cops showed up, and we had to go though a window and use a ladder to get to the guy. Turns out he had been on the roof drinking and had fallen. It was not a pretty sight. They did say that he lived. I remember, though, that nobody else was doing anything... I was running around NYC streets and buildings in my damn boxers (I’ve gotta learn to put on pants) with the poor old doorman but nobody else was doing anything. I DO remember looking up and seeing all the windows of the buildings with their lights on, and seeing the outlines of people watching. Bystander effect? Someone else has got it covered? I don’t want to get involved? I don’t know what it’s about, exactly.

Anyway, two connected stories.

 

[meisperplexed]

I remember that case. A show on Investigation Discovery called A Crime to Remember covered it. It was very sad to say the least.

 

[PixelDevil]

You and dude snuggle up, talk about the inner mind of the bystander , **** like that. Women’s soccer, purple haired heroes, all that stuff that makes you’re lil thingy tingle. Y’all finish breaking it all down, should be some seriously interesting ****.

Wow. How long until your apology for your “poor choice of words”?

 

[skysdad]

It's time for a lock. OFC

 

[TheDude1]

This is the sort of thing that drove people away I’m assuming?

Btw, hope it’s obvious who got this thing locked, while other people were literally just discussing the OP. Surprised he didn’t get the Grayson thread locked too.

 

[TheDude1]

Btw, about the topic... this is by the same guy who did the work cited above...

“Latané introduced the term social loafing, a term that denotes people's tendency to slack off in groups due to the idea that one's personal contribution is unidentifiable.”

So... I wonder if the people who actually take action in social situations where there is a crowd are the same people who do all the work when you have to work in groups? Because that fits my MO to a tee. It’s almost like social laziness.

 

[skysdad]

I just think when discussions are headed no where then it's time to move on. It seems everyone has made their point. I wish That Lounge board was still going on. Perhaps if someone knows how to create something where we could discuss social issues it could be discussed there and this board could be a place where we can discuss Duke sports and other lighter topics. Just my take. And yes things like this have driven several posters from this board besides heyman25. OFC

 

[TheDude1]

I just think when discussions are headed no where then it's time to move on. It seems everyone has made their point. I wish That Lounge board was still going on. Perhaps if someone knows how to create something where we could discuss social issues it could be discussed there and this board could be a place where we can discuss Duke sports and other lighter topics. Just my take. And yes things like this have driven several posters from this board besides heyman25. OFC

I get that. What’s strange is this isn’t a social issue in any meaningful way beyond wondering why people behave like they do. Then meathead there started raving about women’s soccer and pink hair and politics and slinging shots at Dat and his wife, and it went sideways.

 

[skysdad]

I get that. What’s strange is this isn’t a social issue in any meaningful way beyond wondering why people behave like they do. Then meathead there started raving about women’s soccer and pink hair and politics and slinging shots at Dat and his wife, and it went sideways.

I understand that all our personalities don't always click here but I think we all are grown ups and certainly can do better than we do when don't agree. Sometimes we don't even agree on Duke basketball but we all stand on common ground in supporting our team. We stand on common ground in a lot of things. We love our country even though we have different opinions on the way it is run. We stand on common ground when one of us is going through a tough time and prayers and well wishes are ask for. Those who have been sent for me have been very much appreciated. I just think we all can do better when it comes to being a little more civil towards each other. Now when it comes to trolls wandering in here it's a different story. OFC

 

[dukesince91]

Some folks just love trying to show how smart they are.
You either stand up for others or you don't.

 

[TheDude1]

Some folks just love trying to show how smart they are.
You either stand up for others or you don't.

Oh stop. Some folks like to discuss stuff beyond just an initial, visceral reaction. That’s a bad thing now, especially on a discussion forum in a thread about what we are talking about?

And apparently it isn’t as simple as you think, if you actually pay attention to what happens in situations like that, and then read what we learn about human behavior. People who would help in solo situations often don’t when more people are around. Why not discuss that?

I feel like some of the Duke fans here might actually hate Duke once you get beyond a group of kids throwing a ball through a hoop, when it comes down to it.

 

[Showenuff]

Nobody on this board hates Duke other than the basketball team, that's stupid. There are some people here who believe standing up for other people , right or wrong is ok. Why is it when someone DOES talk about doing that ya'll get so sensitive and butthurt about it? I didn't "take a shot" at Dats wife, stop twisting my story around. Dat just likes to argue and show off how smart he is. And that's really smart. He's probably what I consider to be one of the smartest here. He can also be an incredible *******. However even HE knows he's been banned here, several times and I..yea, ME , have gone to bat for him to get him reinstated, cause he's a big time Duke fan. But he loves to poke at me, and he knew why this was going here, you just accidentally got caught up in it dude. I think it's funny how if you DO talk about hitting someone or getting into an altercation, everyone piles up on the OOOOOOOOO , internet tough guy! Fake tough guy. You're right, all of us DIDN'T go to Duke. I didn't . I did grow up fighting. Took my Dad getting shot right in front of me to put me on the straight line. Actually grew up with a pretty tough crowd. And yea, I WILL go to your *** , even now if you get out of line, disrespect a woman or do something that needs attention. If that bothers you, so sorry bud. I don't need a six paragraph breakdown on how that is the wrong response and how 19 different fellas see it 19 different ways. Don't care. Pixel , you asked how long would it be before my apology. Don't hold your breath cuz, it's not coming. I do get a little hot and fly off the handle at times because wading through some stuff here, well, it makes my blood boil at times. And yea, the political innuendo gets under my skin , I try my best to leave it out. I'm not going anywhere, I'll be right here when the dust settles. And if we're all out celebrating Duke over some beers and some trouble breaks out, you'll be glad ol' "meathead" was around.

 

[TheDude1]

Nobody on this board hates Duke other than the basketball team, that's stupid. There are some people here who believe standing up for other people , right or wrong is ok. Why is it when someone DOES talk about doing that ya'll get so sensitive and butthurt about it? I didn't "take a shot" at Dats wife, stop twisting my story around. Dat just likes to argue and show off how smart he is. And that's really smart. He's probably what I consider to be one of the smartest here. He can also be an incredible *******. However even HE knows he's been banned here, several times and I..yea, ME , have gone to bat for him to get him reinstated, cause he's a big time Duke fan. But he loves to poke at me, and he knew why this was going here, you just accidentally got caught up in it dude. I think it's funny how if you DO talk about hitting someone or getting into an altercation, everyone piles up on the OOOOOOOOO , internet tough guy! Fake tough guy. You're right, all of us DIDN'T go to Duke. I didn't . I did grow up fighting. Took my Dad getting shot right in front of me to put me on the straight line. Actually grew up with a pretty tough crowd. And yea, I WILL go to your *** , even now if you get out of line, disrespect a woman or do something that needs attention. If that bothers you, so sorry bud. I don't need a six paragraph breakdown on how that is the wrong response and how 19 different fellas see it 19 different ways. Don't care. Pixel , you asked how long would it be before my apology. Don't hold your breath cuz, it's not coming. I do get a little hot and fly off the handle at times because wading through some stuff here, well, it makes my blood boil at times. And yea, the political innuendo gets under my skin , I try my best to leave it out. I'm not going anywhere, I'll be right here when the dust settles. And if we're all out celebrating Duke over some beers and some trouble breaks out, you'll be glad ol' "meathead" was around.

Show, a few things.

First, nobody in this thread has said anything about it being wrong to protect people. Nobody. You keep going back to this “No matter what you say, I’m still going to do what is right!” thing, but absolutely nobody has said otherwise. You are creating an argument, and sort of looking for a fight, where there isn’t one.

Second, that’s fine if you and Dat go at it. But he wasn’t poking at anything... looking back at the thread, he said that he doesn’t like watching this stuff because he thinks it is used to make groups of people look bad because of the actions of few, and that there is more to human reaction than simply being brave or whathaveyou. There’s nothing political to that, and I don’t see anything even remotely aimed at you. In fact, psychology says that this is, indeed, the case. Having a discussion about this sort of stuff isn’t bad; having discussions about why people do things, the psychology behind it, is interesting to many people, it has nothing to do with making our thingies tingle, and I think takes the conversation a bit beyond simple “Hah what idiots!” or “If I had been there...” hypotheticals. ****, just googling a bit about this exact thread led me to that interesting story of that woman being murdered and the research done after that and left me better than when I started.

Third, sorry man, when you say “If you cant tell the difference between right and wrong” (which nobody was even talking about) or “I hope that when your wife gets punched someone like me is there to protect her”... in my world, that’s not cool. Thats going at a guy. That’s telling a guy he isn’t man enough to protect family, but you are, when you don’t actually know a thing about him or his family. Those are fighting words, without even touching on the women’s soccer/purple hair/whatever the hell else was going on there. You might as well just offer to **** his woman because he can’t satisfy her

And why the hell would I be bothered if you protected someone? Again, nobody has said anything of the sort. I feel like I’ve made it clear that I am very much in the “take care of other people” camp. Who are you arguing with?

Listen man, from what folks who have met you say, and what you post here sometimes, you seem to be a good dude. But in my experience you tend to come out swinging even nobody else is.

Anyway... I think we can all look at that video or read about it (I didn’t actually watch it) and think it’s a damn shame people are such idiots and would do that both to each other, and subject kids at freaking Disneyworld to it, and that we’d hope in the future people would step in and help.

 

[dukesince91]

Oh stop. Some folks like to discuss stuff beyond just an initial, visceral reaction. That’s a bad thing now, especially on a discussion forum in a thread about what we are talking about?

And apparently it isn’t as simple as you think, if you actually pay attention to what happens in situations like that, and then read what we learn about human behavior. People who would help in solo situations often don’t when more people are around. Why not discuss that?

I feel like some of the Duke fans here might actually hate Duke once you get beyond a group of kids throwing a ball through a hoop, when it comes down to it.

I gave my opinion, but it didn’t align with yours. Therefore you tell me to stop, you can’t have it both ways.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

Show, ignore Dattier and TheDude. They’re “more educated” than everyone else therefore they can take feeling > fact, where rational people like you and myself are “idiots” for taking fact > feeling.

 

[TheDude1]

Show, ignore Dattier and TheDude. They’re “more educated” than everyone else therefore they can take feeling > fact, where rational people like you and myself are “idiots” for taking fact > feeling.

First off, as best I can figure out by whatever you meant to type there, that is almost literally the opposite of what we were saying. Literally. We were literally saying there are psychological facts beyond the initial, visceral feelings we have. But I wouldn’t expect you to get that.

Second, you might be such a delicate flower that you have to put us on Ignore, but to me Show seems like the type who is able to engage and even work out disagreements.

Anyway... I think this is done, and I think Show does too... we seemed to have sorted it all out.

 

[meisperplexed]

Nobody on this board hates Duke other than the basketball team, that's stupid. There are some people here who believe standing up for other people , right or wrong is ok. Why is it when someone DOES talk about doing that ya'll get so sensitive and butthurt about it? I didn't "take a shot" at Dats wife, stop twisting my story around. Dat just likes to argue and show off how smart he is. And that's really smart. He's probably what I consider to be one of the smartest here. He can also be an incredible *******. However even HE knows he's been banned here, several times and I..yea, ME , have gone to bat for him to get him reinstated, cause he's a big time Duke fan. But he loves to poke at me, and he knew why this was going here, you just accidentally got caught up in it dude. I think it's funny how if you DO talk about hitting someone or getting into an altercation, everyone piles up on the OOOOOOOOO , internet tough guy! Fake tough guy. You're right, all of us DIDN'T go to Duke. I didn't . I did grow up fighting. Took my Dad getting shot right in front of me to put me on the straight line. Actually grew up with a pretty tough crowd. And yea, I WILL go to your *** , even now if you get out of line, disrespect a woman or do something that needs attention. If that bothers you, so sorry bud. I don't need a six paragraph breakdown on how that is the wrong response and how 19 different fellas see it 19 different ways. Don't care. Pixel , you asked how long would it be before my apology. Don't hold your breath cuz, it's not coming. I do get a little hot and fly off the handle at times because wading through some stuff here, well, it makes my blood boil at times. And yea, the political innuendo gets under my skin , I try my best to leave it out. I'm not going anywhere, I'll be right here when the dust settles. And if we're all out celebrating Duke over some beers and some trouble breaks out, you'll be glad ol' "meathead" was around.

Show, off topic, but I wanted to ask how your dad is doing? Well, I hope.

 

[Showenuff]

Show, off topic, but I wanted to ask how your dad is doing? Well, I hope.

Wow. Thanks man. The doctors said all the cancer was inside the prostate, and now removed, very confident he’s cancer free. Greatest news ever. Appreciate you asking man, really.

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

I rewatched the show Jericho on Netflix. I highly recommend it! Great show from 2006-2008. It has Morgan from TWD and FTWD and Skeet Ulrich from Scream and Riverdale. I heard they might be bringing it back.

 

[TheDude1]

Wow. Thanks man. The doctors said all the cancer was inside the prostate, and now removed, very confident he’s cancer free. Greatest news ever. Appreciate you asking man, really.

Cancer is a *****. Congrats on the great news. Waiting on the results of those scans, that feeling of being perched on a precipice between life and death, is terrifying for all involved. We are so blessed when we get that good news, even though many people still end up fighting through the bad.

 

[meisperplexed]

Wow. Thanks man. The doctors said all the cancer was inside the prostate, and now removed, very confident he’s cancer free. Greatest news ever. Appreciate you asking man, really.

Happy to, especially when it's wonderful news. I'm really happy for him.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Size wouldn’t equate if done properly, about 9 guys shoulda been on him, quick. And none of them would be in trouble for that. I know y’all don’t get it, but I’m old school, I’d have tried to send his teeth over to Epcot.

I jumped in at a bar downtown onetime. A guy was dragging a girl out the bar by her hair and I caught it out of the corner of my eye and I sucker punched the hell out of him and got put in handcuffs. After everybody told the story to the cop I was turned loose... Anyway that and bullies I’m with you. Can’t stand and watch either go down.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Just skimmed through this thread for the first time taking a poo.... @Showenuff everybody can’t be like Mike lol. Some people always want to look at a situation so deeply with all this psychology analyzing whatever you want to call it bs....To me is very simple you stand up for what’s right. And it should be a REACTION. But there’s different strokes for different folks I guess. Btw I’m glad your dad is doing good. First time I’ve heard.

Ps... run the pick and roll.... Focker out!