OT: Federal Lands in the Western US

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PooPopsBaldHead

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Dec 15, 2017
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My inbox is getting blown up by the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Association. The leadership is rallying the troops to call their congressional delegation.

Apparently there's a push in the Senate to change some law that will allow the Federal government to sell off millions of acres of public land. There are three main entities in the West that public lands fall under:

National Park System (See L4Dawg for explanation)
National Forests (Land with trees)
Bureau of Land Management (Land without trees)


I think the initial push is to sell some BLM and Forest land. Sure seems like a slippery slope. It's a short-sighted attempt to generate revenue to fund tax cuts we probably can't afford because both parties spend like drunken sailors nowadays. Once we sell land, it's gone forever. You can't use it for recreational purposes or get royalties from mineral rights not sell timber.

There are so many amazing things you can do on these public lands as well. Camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, dirt bikes, over landing, shooting guns, you name it and you can just 17ing do it.

BLM land is just open for whatever you want to do. Just drive off the road a half mile, set up some long range targets and shoot 500 yards at will. National Forests are where you hunt elk and mule deer that range 100x further than whitetail deer in the south.

I say use the land. We have a new massive mine going in on federal land in my part of the world. Environmental types fought it, but it's going to happen. They're mining antimony which is critical for defense and industry and keeps us from relying on China for the supply.

If the bought and paid for politicians are allowed to sell these lands so they can get more campaign funds from their handlers, how long do we think it will be before our once federally owned land is in the hands of China, Russia, or the Saudis? 20 years? Maybe less?
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
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My inbox is getting blown up by the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Association. The leadership is rallying the troops to call their congressional delegation.

Apparently there's a push in the Senate to change some law that will allow the Federal government to sell off millions of acres of public land. There are three main entities in the West that public lands fall under:

National Park System (See L4Dawg for explanation)
National Forests (Land with trees)
Bureau of Land Management (Land without trees)


I think the initial push is to sell some BLM and Forest land. Sure seems like a slippery slope. It's a short-sighted attempt to generate revenue to fund tax cuts we probably can't afford because both parties spend like drunken sailors nowadays. Once we sell land, it's gone forever. You can't use it for recreational purposes or get royalties from mineral rights not sell timber.

There are so many amazing things you can do on these public lands as well. Camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, dirt bikes, over landing, shooting guns, you name it and you can just 17ing do it.

BLM land is just open for whatever you want to do. Just drive off the road a half mile, set up some long range targets and shoot 500 yards at will. National Forests are where you hunt elk and mule deer that range 100x further than whitetail deer in the south.

I say use the land. We have a new massive mine going in on federal land in my part of the world. Environmental types fought it, but it's going to happen. They're mining antimony which is critical for defense and industry and keeps us from relying on China for the supply.

If the bought and paid for politicians are allowed to sell these lands so they can get more campaign funds from their handlers, how long do we think it will be before our once federally owned land is in the hands of China, Russia, or the Saudis? 20 years? Maybe less?
Meh, once the federal government has enough lands for national parks, national defense (which granted probably need a pretty significant chunk of uninhabited land for this), I'm not sure what they need to keep it for. Keep timber rights on land that's produces timber. Keep mineral rights on all land (although I assume most of the land won't be particularly valuable with severed mineral interests), and otherwise I don't think there's a lot of value in the federal government having land.

The main reason I would be against it is that as long as we're spending like drunken sailors (which we really need a new phrase, as that's offensive to drunken sailors, who at least probably get some prostitutes with their "wasteful" spending), I don't want to sell off any assets that might be valuable if the voting public ever decides to be responsible. When we are eventually forced to acknowledge reality, it'd be nice to have some assets to sell to soften the blow.
 

grinningmule

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Jul 15, 2021
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The govt needs to offload all of the empty buildings and other commercial real estate that we pay to maintain, cut every dime that goes to foreign countries and NGOs, legalize and regulate drugs therefore getting rid of the bulk of the DEA and the war on drugs, lockdown the border and freeze all immigration for 5 years while we sort this crap out, and a whole myriad of other wasteful **** before touching our public lands.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
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I'll rely on a quote from the man himself...

1000019268.jpg

Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the ‘the game belongs to the people.’ So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The "greatest good for the greatest number" applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.
 

Dawgg

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
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Yes, this seems like something to get bipartisan support: greedy R’s and anti-hunting D’s.
To my knowledge, not a single Democrat in the Senate is supporting this. There are some House Republicans pushing back, but I haven’t seen any pushback from Senate Republicans. Hopefully, at least a few will peel off and defeat this.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
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Meh, once the federal government has enough lands for national parks, national defense (which granted probably need a pretty significant chunk of uninhabited land for this), I'm not sure what they need to keep it for. Keep timber rights on land that's produces timber. Keep mineral rights on all land (although I assume most of the land won't be particularly valuable with severed mineral interests), and otherwise I don't think there's a lot of value in the federal government having land.

The main reason I would be against it is that as long as we're spending like drunken sailors (which we really need a new phrase, as that's offensive to drunken sailors, who at least probably get some prostitutes with their "wasteful" spending), I don't want to sell off any assets that might be valuable if the voting public ever decides to be responsible. When we are eventually forced to acknowledge reality, it'd be nice to have some assets to sell to soften the blow.

You keep the land for the people. Not us, not our kids, but 10 generations from now and beyond. We can be pessimistic about the current times, but as a nation we most strive to be everlasting.

Thank God for the better men who left us what we have. If you have never ventured off the beaten path in to the great unknown of a random national forest or BLM land, you owe it to yourself to do so. National Parks are cool and great for tourists, but the unspoiled and virtually empty spaces of the American West are an invaluable resource. No different than our public coastlines on the Gulf.
 

L4Dawg

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Oct 27, 2016
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I'll rely on a quote from the man himself...

View attachment 816904

Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the ‘the game belongs to the people.’ So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The "greatest good for the greatest number" applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.
One of our absolute greatest Americans.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Nov 16, 2005
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To my knowledge, not a single Democrat in the Senate is supporting this. There are some House Republicans pushing back, but I haven’t seen any pushback from Senate Republicans. Hopefully, at least a few will peel off and defeat this.
You only need a few republicans in the house to peel off and it’s dead. It’s a razor thin margin.
 

paindonthurt

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Apr 7, 2025
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The govt needs to offload all of the empty buildings and other commercial real estate that we pay to maintain, cut every dime that goes to foreign countries and NGOs, legalize and regulate drugs therefore getting rid of the bulk of the DEA and the war on drugs, lockdown the border and freeze all immigration for 5 years while we sort this crap out, and a whole myriad of other wasteful **** before touching our public lands.
I agree with most of this but it’s even simpler than that.

mandatory x% budget per year until revenue is greater than expenses.

then put into law that revenue has to stay above expenses and tax increases have to be passed by a super majority and they are temporary for emergencies
 
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paindonthurt

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Apr 7, 2025
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The govt needs to offload all of the empty buildings and other commercial real estate that we pay to maintain, cut every dime that goes to foreign countries and NGOs, legalize and regulate drugs therefore getting rid of the bulk of the DEA and the war on drugs, lockdown the border and freeze all immigration for 5 years while we sort this crap out, and a whole myriad of other wasteful **** before touching our public lands.
We spend 62x more per capita in tax dollars today than we did in 1901 INFLATION ADJUSTED

that is GD insane

we didn’t start magically needing more. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
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You keep the land for the people. Not us, not our kids, but 10 generations from now and beyond. We can be pessimistic about the current times, but as a nation we most strive to be everlasting.

Thank God for the better men who left us what we have. If you have never ventured off the beaten path in to the great unknown of a random national forest or BLM land, you owe it to yourself to do so. National Parks are cool and great for tourists, but the unspoiled and virtually empty spaces of the American West are an invaluable resource. No different than our public coastlines on the Gulf.
Again, meh. The people of today count too. Should there be some wilderness reserves? Sure. Do we need 45% of the land of western states to be owned by the federal government? Not so sure.

I don't want to sell that property today because of our spending problem. But I also don't feel like 25% percent of the western lands being owned by the federal government is obscenely low. And I'd be fine if dedicated any proceeds to procuring more land. I think it'd be worthwhile to use that to condemn ocean front properties in the east or southeast to dedicate it to public use. Or to protect more of what undeveloped land there is left in the more densely populated areas of the country. But in general I view land as a resource for people and don't view people as pests that are spoiling land (except for *** holes that do things like litter).
 

jethreauxdawg

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2010
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Again, meh. The people of today count too. Should there be some wilderness reserves? Sure. Do we need 45% of the land of western states to be owned by the federal government? Not so sure.

I don't want to sell that property today because of our spending problem. But I also don't feel like 25% percent of the western lands being owned by the federal government is obscenely low. And I'd be fine if dedicated any proceeds to procuring more land. I think it'd be worthwhile to use that to condemn ocean front properties in the east or southeast to dedicate it to public use. Or to protect more of what undeveloped land there is left in the more densely populated areas of the country. But in general I view land as a resource for people and don't view people as pests that are spoiling land (except for *** holes that do things like litter).
I think vast amounts of public land is one of the amazing things that make us better than the rest of the world. Don’t mess it up.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
10,330
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My inbox is getting blown up by the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Association. The leadership is rallying the troops to call their congressional delegation.

Apparently there's a push in the Senate to change some law that will allow the Federal government to sell off millions of acres of public land. There are three main entities in the West that public lands fall under:

National Park System (See L4Dawg for explanation)
National Forests (Land with trees)
Bureau of Land Management (Land without trees)


I think the initial push is to sell some BLM and Forest land. Sure seems like a slippery slope. It's a short-sighted attempt to generate revenue to fund tax cuts we probably can't afford because both parties spend like drunken sailors nowadays. Once we sell land, it's gone forever. You can't use it for recreational purposes or get royalties from mineral rights not sell timber.

There are so many amazing things you can do on these public lands as well. Camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, dirt bikes, over landing, shooting guns, you name it and you can just 17ing do it.

BLM land is just open for whatever you want to do. Just drive off the road a half mile, set up some long range targets and shoot 500 yards at will. National Forests are where you hunt elk and mule deer that range 100x further than whitetail deer in the south.

I say use the land. We have a new massive mine going in on federal land in my part of the world. Environmental types fought it, but it's going to happen. They're mining antimony which is critical for defense and industry and keeps us from relying on China for the supply.

If the bought and paid for politicians are allowed to sell these lands so they can get more campaign funds from their handlers, how long do we think it will be before our once federally owned land is in the hands of China, Russia, or the Saudis? 20 years? Maybe less?
This admin is basically running a US estate sale for the highest bidder. Plus, we need to fund military parades for the Fuhrer's birthday to keep up with all the nations we admire...

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DoggieDaddy13

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Dec 23, 2017
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Why do you guys hate America!
Who really benefits from public land? The public!?
Ha!
Why should my lazy aging fatass pay taxes for campers and hunters entertainment when I can barely pay for my grands private schooling.
Privatize it all and let the rich and those willing to work enjoy the largess.
And pay for it.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Nov 16, 2005
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We spend 62x more per capita in tax dollars today than we did in 1901 INFLATION ADJUSTED

that is GD insane

we didn’t start magically needing more. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM.
So if we have a spending problem, are you not in favor of the Big Beautiful Bill?
 

Pilgrimdawg

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Aug 30, 2018
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I love the vast magnificent Western Federal Lands that we have and would never want to lose any of it. I have hunted, fished, and camped in many of our Western lands and it’s been some of life’s greatest adventures. I would never support selling one inch of it. I don’t intend to derail the conversation but for those that hunt out west, I do have a big problem with how non residents are treated with respect to obtaining licenses. With regard to private and State owned lands I feel that the individual State should be able to manage those however they see fit. On the other hand, Federal Lands are owned equally by all tax paying citizens and to allot less licenses at a much higher price for non residents to hunt is totally wrong. Same problem all over the West but I will use Wyoming as an example. As a citizen and resident of Mississippi I have just as much ownership in Wyoming National Forest as some guy that is a citizen and resident of Wyoming. Yet, the residents can pretty much get a license every year for deer, elk, Pronghorn, etc. Residents get about 85 percent of the tags and non residents get 15 percent. Also, we have to buy preference points every year to even have a chance to draw a license that can cost 10 times as much as a resident license. We hope to draw a mule deer license next week with 8 preference points. That’s one point per year for 8 years. We think we have a good chance to draw but it’s going to be close. An elk tag, depending on the unit, is going to take you a minimum of 5 years to draw and some areas take more than 10 points to have any chance at all. A non resident elk tag is over $1,500 now for non residents. I think it’s about $75 for a resident. This is to hunt on Federal lands which we all equally own. Specific rules vary from State to State, but it’s a problem for nonresidents in all western states. I have reached out to various officials a few times on this issue but not one single person ever bothered to reply. Like I said, don’t mean to derail the conversation, but it frustrates me as I sit here waiting on next weeks drawing.
 

paindonthurt

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Apr 7, 2025
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So if we have a spending problem, are you not in favor of the Big Beautiful Bill?
I wish the BBB cut more funding but unfortunately in politics you have to take what you can get. I’ll take the good and hope that the increased debt will eventually get 60% plus attention.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
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I agree with most of this but it’s even simpler than that.

mandatory x% budget per year until revenue is greater than expenses.

then put into law that revenue has to stay above expenses and tax raises have to be passed by a super majority and they are temporary for emergencies
Math is simple. Politics are not. We could relatively painlessly fix all our problems by subjecting all entitlement spending to chained CPI. Do some other relatively minor things like subject all SS income to income tax, phase in some reforms so it doesn't penalize couples with two working spouses, immediately eliminate the loophole for partnerships to avoid SALT caps, phase out SALT deductions completely over time, including for corporate taxes. Then subject appropriated spending to a one % budget cut each year until the budget is balanced. You could get to a balanced budget pretty quickly that way without being severely disruptive.

But there is no coalition that will support responsible spending. I don't think there's going to be one until there is major pain, and probably a crisis.
 
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ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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We spend 62x more per capita in tax dollars today than we did in 1901 INFLATION ADJUSTED

that is GD insane

we didn’t start magically needing more. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM.
Because our population is hell bent on fighting over the solution being either cuts focused or tax focused but math says it has to be both. If we want to truly tackle it, we have to hit both sides of the P&L but nobody wants to admit that at home or in Washington.
 

paindonthurt

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Apr 7, 2025
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Because our population is hell bent on fighting over the solution being either cuts focused or tax focused but math says it has to be both. If we want to truly tackle it, we have to hit both sides of the P&L but nobody wants to admit that at home or in Washington.
If we just went back to $10,000 a person which would be plenty we would save $1.3 trillion a year.

We can increase tax revenue without increasing taxes. We did it in trumps first term.
 

leeinator

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Feb 24, 2014
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I'm not sure I've ever been to a Federal Park other than Mammoth Cave Park. Are they going to sell it to rich folk so they can build underground bunkers protecting them from a nuclear exchange?
 

jethreauxdawg

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Dec 20, 2010
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I'm not sure I've ever been to a Federal Park other than Mammoth Cave Park. Are they going to sell it to rich folk so they can build underground bunkers protecting them from a nuclear exchange?
If they get a chance
 
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