OT Legal Experts: Prosecutor
- Thread starter MSDawg34
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I'm a public defender and I make significantly more than the equivalent prosecutor. I would imagine your job satisfaction would suck. The victims would hate you due to a plea deal. So would the defendants. You would have defense attorneys on your *** all day. You would have to be friendly with cop type people.
That if your a good prosecutor with ambition you will get 99% of the defendants found guilty. There is no doubt collateral damage and innocent people are fined, probation, incarcerated, etc... I understand it's part of the job and our legal system but I couldn't sleep at night knowing I had messed up some people's lives. I fully expect to get roasted by the victims rights crowd in 3,2,1
MSDawg34 said:
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</div><div>If the legal market in MS still sucks (I left in 2009) prosecutor jobs will be tough to find, attorneys will seek the stability of public work over the potential big pay day of private practice. If you are in law school, kudos to you, if you aren't make sure you think long and hard about going (cost benefit analysis). Prosecutor jobs are in high demand, it is important to acknowledge the possibility that you may spend your legal career doing something else.</div><div>
</div><div>PS: Ole Miss Law dropped to #135 in US News Ranking. WTF?</div><div>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings
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If you are not in law school, my strong advice is to F'N FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO. A colleague at a jacktown firm recently hired a December law grad and started her at $35,000. She accepted the offer during the interview. That's how bad she had to have a job. Dude told me he thinks she owes well over $100k in student loans. These f'n law schools are churning out assloads of unqualified dolts saddled with 6 figure student loan debt and no hope of employment. You're a f'n idiot if you buy into their ********.
Oh, and Mississippi has a nice, little tier 3 [/on it's way to 4] law school. Nice little program, bears.
Oh, and Mississippi has a nice, little tier 3 [/on it's way to 4] law school. Nice little program, bears.
Just in Mississippi, there are over 6,000 practicing attorneys. Ole Miss probably has 550-600 students, and I'd guess maybe that many at MC.
Across the country, I'd wager that extrapolates out more or less equally.
Across the country, I'd wager that extrapolates out more or less equally.
Prosecutors' offices don't hire people without courtroom experience. You'll get that in clinics and in internships at DAs' offices.
I know several people from top 10 schools who've gotten turned down there over the last five years.
sucks that any conviction is often more important than the wrong conviction. gotta have those conviction rates to show off! <div>FreeDawg said:
</div><div>i wouldn't really wanna practice on either side of the criminal law area.</div>
If not, obviously you need to start there. But as everyone else has said think long and hard about it before you go. Law school isn't the place for people to go because of academic inertia any more. If you don't know what to do, don't just go to law school. I'm a 1L right now, and the legal market may be worse than what people tell you. I decided to go to school outside of MS, and am having problems finding a position within the state. I really want to go back to MS to work, but it has been tough.<div>
</div><div>If it is something you are passionate about however, the first step is to take the LSAT. I would say if you can't get into a tier 1 or 2 school, take the test again or reconsider. Being below that makes the market even tougher. Choose a school with a good reputation when it comes to litigation. Be ready to work for free over the summers, and start building your resume.</div>
</div><div>If it is something you are passionate about however, the first step is to take the LSAT. I would say if you can't get into a tier 1 or 2 school, take the test again or reconsider. Being below that makes the market even tougher. Choose a school with a good reputation when it comes to litigation. Be ready to work for free over the summers, and start building your resume.</div>
As a public defender, my "innocence" rate is at 25%. I.E. 25% percent of my cases get dismissed for whatever reason. That doesNOT include the cases that plead to lesser charges to take advantage of a plea deal. Our system keeps up with it...but we aren't like the prosecutors and promote based on that.
There are a lot of different ways to practice law. Many attorneys in my office go to trial less and have a lower "innocence" rate. They plea their clientsto cases thatthey can/should win because theyadvise their clients and practicevery conservatively.
Prosecutors are the same way. Some prosecutors won't give you a decent offer on a case that is very strong for them. That's because they are trying to build their stats. What do you do? You go to trial and waste their time. Sometimes, you get lucky and win? Whose fault is that? The prosecutor, for trying to build their stats.
There are good prosecutors. These are prosecutors who actually listen to their victims AND the defense attorneys. Generally, the defense knows more about the case than the prosecutor because their case load is so much lower. Good prosecutors actually evaluate their case and try to decide what is just, not how can I build my stats.</p>
There are a lot of different ways to practice law. Many attorneys in my office go to trial less and have a lower "innocence" rate. They plea their clientsto cases thatthey can/should win because theyadvise their clients and practicevery conservatively.
Prosecutors are the same way. Some prosecutors won't give you a decent offer on a case that is very strong for them. That's because they are trying to build their stats. What do you do? You go to trial and waste their time. Sometimes, you get lucky and win? Whose fault is that? The prosecutor, for trying to build their stats.
There are good prosecutors. These are prosecutors who actually listen to their victims AND the defense attorneys. Generally, the defense knows more about the case than the prosecutor because their case load is so much lower. Good prosecutors actually evaluate their case and try to decide what is just, not how can I build my stats.</p>
And because Mississippi is (wrongly) viewed as an easy place to get a job if you have a T-10 degree.
placement numbers and starting salaries. Law school students in nyc are suing suny for this very thing.
I think the 99% conviction rate may be something i heard about Madison or Oktibeha country. Def not published stats. My main point that probably didnt translate well is that, from my prospective, criminal law is not an enviable field. Hell, I wouldnt want to be a loan officer at a bank either. Doesnt mean I think all the people that practice it are bad people. I just despise over amibitous prosecution people that throw caution and common sense to the side, just for convictions. For examples: Whoever handled the Tyler Edmond case (Allgood maybe?), Bill Peterson (the innocent man), or even professional witness Dr. Steven Hayne or Brandon. These people abused the hell out of the law and need to be locked up themselves. All that said, defense attorneys goals to get murders off shouldnt be left off the hook either. Criminal law is a sticky fieldrugbdawg said:
Ok, I actually AM A PROSECUTOR.
First off, anyone who tells you why you shouldn't be a prosecutor because of the pay tells you a lot about that kind of person. You don't join the Army or the Police because you like buying things in Italian leather. You do those jobs, and that of a prosecutor, because its the right thing to do. . . to help people.
Second, the pay actually is not bad. Especially considering how awesome the job actually is. Most law jobs are paperwork. Only a few jobs actually require you to go into a courtroom. You want to be a "law and order" kind of lawyer, then being a prosecutor is your kinda law. You wanna fly on a gulfstream, then you likely will work 20 hours a day billing someone to review their documents.
Third, the best way to become a prosecutor is to focus on criminal law classes in law school and seek out moot court/mock trial experiences.
Fourth, the legal market is saturated with lawyers, but NOT prosecutors. Simply put, crime is not going away just because the economy sucks.
and Finally, Federal prosecutors make a considerable amount of money. You have to pay your dues at the State first, but if you become a Fed prosecutor, you actually can start liking Italian Leather.
PS - For those, you know who you are, DON'T EVER accuse me of being dirty simply because we have a high conviction rate. That rate is high because we actually do our jobs and prosecute those that are guilty and cut the ones who aren't. You're welcome.
First off, anyone who tells you why you shouldn't be a prosecutor because of the pay tells you a lot about that kind of person. You don't join the Army or the Police because you like buying things in Italian leather. You do those jobs, and that of a prosecutor, because its the right thing to do. . . to help people.
Second, the pay actually is not bad. Especially considering how awesome the job actually is. Most law jobs are paperwork. Only a few jobs actually require you to go into a courtroom. You want to be a "law and order" kind of lawyer, then being a prosecutor is your kinda law. You wanna fly on a gulfstream, then you likely will work 20 hours a day billing someone to review their documents.
Third, the best way to become a prosecutor is to focus on criminal law classes in law school and seek out moot court/mock trial experiences.
Fourth, the legal market is saturated with lawyers, but NOT prosecutors. Simply put, crime is not going away just because the economy sucks.
and Finally, Federal prosecutors make a considerable amount of money. You have to pay your dues at the State first, but if you become a Fed prosecutor, you actually can start liking Italian Leather.
PS - For those, you know who you are, DON'T EVER accuse me of being dirty simply because we have a high conviction rate. That rate is high because we actually do our jobs and prosecute those that are guilty and cut the ones who aren't. You're welcome.
to help people. However, you can't really make a career as a public defender in the South, unless you go federal.
Now, as for private criminal defense attorneys, I despise them. I do my job because people in authority, cops, take advantage of everyday citizens and abuse our Constitution on a daily basis. I don'tthink people should be screwed because they can't hire someonecompetent to represent them.
People mortgage their house for them and I end up representing them when the lawyer screws up. Or, they leave them high and dry before trial because they can't afford to pay them. Then, I have to scramble to pick up their mess.
Now, as for private criminal defense attorneys, I despise them. I do my job because people in authority, cops, take advantage of everyday citizens and abuse our Constitution on a daily basis. I don'tthink people should be screwed because they can't hire someonecompetent to represent them.
People mortgage their house for them and I end up representing them when the lawyer screws up. Or, they leave them high and dry before trial because they can't afford to pay them. Then, I have to scramble to pick up their mess.
Its a sad day when people (including myself), don't want to associate with "cop type people." I lived next door to a cop and when he was off duty he would get belligerent. It was like he had never drank before. One night I had a few people over, probably 5 or 6 - Christmas break, lots of people from all over back in town, yada yada yada. Well 2 black friends of mine leave my house get in their car and are leaving my apt complex and he flags them down, calls them the N word and tells them to get out of his apt complex. Conflicting reports on whether he spat on them, threw beer, or spilled beer out of his bottle (as he was hammered) - regardless, liquid was exchanged. This was completely unprovoked - the girls were sober, no loud music, nothing. Maybe it was "mistaken identity" but even so, is there really any excuse?<div>
</div><div>I would try and stay on his good side, but after that I just avoided him. He once admitted that he had something against college kids (he did not finish).</div>
</div><div>I would try and stay on his good side, but after that I just avoided him. He once admitted that he had something against college kids (he did not finish).</div>
Out of curiosity, why do you say you despise private criminal defense attorneys? Is it just that they're in it for the money compared to public defenders (seems pretty clear cut), or is there just an inordinate amount of ambulance chasers? <div>
</div><div>Props to you for your career decision to help those who need it, and I mean that in all seriousness.</div>
1. I think its very commendable to do what you do based on what you just said. I respect very much for honest comments like these.rugbdawg said:
2. It kinda freaks me out that a prosecutor would admit that police officers take advantage of everyday citizens on a daily basis and abuse the Constitution. That alone is scary
To the original poster, if you're interested in being a prosecutor, I think that's great, but there are several factors you should consider before making the jump to law school. First, are you willing to put in the hours every week (especially first year)? I'm talking about serious study. The job market is so bad that even top students are having trouble finding summer internships, and if your grades aren't top-notch, you'll struggle as well. Second, are you willing to take on $75,000+ in debt for a law degree? That's about what it costs to attend Ole Miss law these days, and you should be aware that student loans aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy. Lastly, even if you are lucky enough to get a job post-graduation, the hours are grueling. Expect to work 70-80 hours a week when you're a new associate. It's a tough job, especially if you have a family.
@rugbdawg... I'm sorry that you "despise" me, for whatever reason. You should know however, that I've never left a client high and dry before trial because they couldn't afford to pay me. That's actually very unethical and a violation of the model rules of professionalism. If you know an attorney who has done this, you have a DUTY to report them to the state bar. If I accept a client's case, I see it through to the end. Then again, I'm smart enough to get my money up front. Oh and before you accuse me of being greedy, I do a lot of pro bono work.
@rugbdawg... I'm sorry that you "despise" me, for whatever reason. You should know however, that I've never left a client high and dry before trial because they couldn't afford to pay me. That's actually very unethical and a violation of the model rules of professionalism. If you know an attorney who has done this, you have a DUTY to report them to the state bar. If I accept a client's case, I see it through to the end. Then again, I'm smart enough to get my money up front. Oh and before you accuse me of being greedy, I do a lot of pro bono work.
not a prosecutor. I find it refreshing, though, that he admits that some private criminal defense attorneys are basically the lowest of the low. I would also say that he has a very skewed view of law enforcement - for all the cops who live to trample on the Constitutional rights of citizens, there are lots more who do their job with dignity.
As far as making a living as a prosecutor, I know that there are LOTS of people in Mississippi who do just that.
Seconded. Those law school employment stats are a bunch of BS also. The % employed at graduation, a few months out, etc. includes ANY type of employment. So someone with $100k+ in student loans from MC waiting tables is included in that statistic. Bottom line: don't go to law school unless its the only thing you want to do and you're prepared to put your life on hold so you can make stellar grades. Even then you're not guaranteed anything.
Oh and go to law school near where you want to work. Going out of state and trying to come back to Mississippi is a *****.
Oh and go to law school near where you want to work. Going out of state and trying to come back to Mississippi is a *****.
want to be in the position where I'm taking his money and representing him in the public eye. If I wanted to get rich, I would not have gone into criminal law. There is a big difference between that and representing someone who has nothing or no one else and is charged with the same thing. I, his "free" "public pretender", am the only thing standing between him and the consequences. Obviously, public defenders represent the majority of defendants charged.
Certainly, there are many noble private defense attorneys. Most, if not all, of those have previously been prosecutors or public defenders. Generally, your private defense attorneys who do not have that type of background get the majority of their work through ambulance chasing and divorce. They tag on criminal defense to their practice. I know this because I have friends from law school who take criminal cases that they, nor anyone in their firm, have any business taking. They end up calling for questions.
Secondly, private defense attorneys prey off of our work and get better deals because of it. I certainly don't mind that the private attorney is getting a great deal for his client. What I DO MIND is that the client is getting a great deal BECAUSE he can afford to hire someone. Our criminal justice system shouldn't work that way. Prosecutors are always overworked and busy. That's because of the public defender in the courtroom. What is it going to hurt to give a great deal in one case with a private attorney that he sees maybe once or twice a month? Not a whole lot. What is it going to hurt to give a great deal in one of my cases where I'm going to have 30 similarly situated clients in the next 6 months? Now, every case is different obviously, but you get my point.
Certainly, there are many noble private defense attorneys. Most, if not all, of those have previously been prosecutors or public defenders. Generally, your private defense attorneys who do not have that type of background get the majority of their work through ambulance chasing and divorce. They tag on criminal defense to their practice. I know this because I have friends from law school who take criminal cases that they, nor anyone in their firm, have any business taking. They end up calling for questions.
Secondly, private defense attorneys prey off of our work and get better deals because of it. I certainly don't mind that the private attorney is getting a great deal for his client. What I DO MIND is that the client is getting a great deal BECAUSE he can afford to hire someone. Our criminal justice system shouldn't work that way. Prosecutors are always overworked and busy. That's because of the public defender in the courtroom. What is it going to hurt to give a great deal in one case with a private attorney that he sees maybe once or twice a month? Not a whole lot. What is it going to hurt to give a great deal in one of my cases where I'm going to have 30 similarly situated clients in the next 6 months? Now, every case is different obviously, but you get my point.
