OT: Mississippi River Flood Control

[Faustdog]

This stuff is wildly complicated and really interesting. Here's an article that describes a disastrous and likely shift in the river's course, and the controversial mitigation efforts of the Corp of Engineers.

More Flood for Less Rain

I don’t know who said it first, but the Mississippi River is flooding more often, longer, and higher for the same or less rain. There are many reasons for this. But the main one is the US Army Corps of Engineers (Corps). It is in charge of flood control on the lower Mississippi River (below...

biggerpieforum.org

Also, if Rising Tide is a great book on the 1927 flood, flood control, and the politics behind it. It's a slog at first, but it's an absolutely wild story that will make you hate the state of Louisiana.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Man I JUST read that on JJ.

Sounds like that structure at Widow's Bend is the answer.

 

[Dawgbite]

This stuff is wildly complicated and really interesting. Here's an article that describes a disastrous and likely shift in the river's course, and the controversial mitigation efforts of the Corp of Engineers.

More Flood for Less Rain

I don’t know who said it first, but the Mississippi River is flooding more often, longer, and higher for the same or less rain. There are many reasons for this. But the main one is the US Army Corps of Engineers (Corps). It is in charge of flood control on the lower Mississippi River (below...

biggerpieforum.org

Also, if Rising Tide is a great book on the 1927 flood, flood control, and the politics behind it. It's a slog at first, but it's an absolutely wild story that will make you hate the state of Louisiana.

We are still living with the aftermath of the 27 flood. Amazing book.

 

[Negative Waves]

Beyond Control by James Barnett is also another book if you want to find out the history of the MS River engineering and the attempt to keep it from changing course down the Atchafalaya River.

 

[Shmuley]

This stuff is wildly complicated and really interesting. Here's an article that describes a disastrous and likely shift in the river's course, and the controversial mitigation efforts of the Corp of Engineers.

More Flood for Less Rain

I don’t know who said it first, but the Mississippi River is flooding more often, longer, and higher for the same or less rain. There are many reasons for this. But the main one is the US Army Corps of Engineers (Corps). It is in charge of flood control on the lower Mississippi River (below...

biggerpieforum.org

Also, if Rising Tide is a great book on the 1927 flood, flood control, and the politics behind it. It's a slog at first, but it's an absolutely wild story that will make you hate the state of Louisiana.

The hubris of man. No one controls Mother Nature. Ever.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

The hubris of man. No one controls Mother Nature. Ever.

On one of those Game warden shows, I remember an agent saying, governments control man, God controls nature.

 

[mstateglfr]

Flood control management by the Army Corps of Engineers is confusing. I dont understand some of their decisions on how they handle a local dammed lake on a major river, but I chalk it up to me not having all the data that they have and not knowing what the data means.
I just have to trust they are doing the best thing possible in any given season of the year.

Its tough sometimes, especially when sections of the river that are in he city are constantly flooded downstream from the dam, even though its in the middle of a 4 year drought, but you have to trust that they are the experts and are making the best decision with what their options are.

 

[GoToHellOleMiss.sixpack]

The Corpse never saw a river or creek that they didn't think should be a lake.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The Corpse never saw a river or creek that they didn't think should be a lake.

The Corps also won’t do anything unless they thought of it.

So far their handling of the issue at Arkabutla Lake has been a snails pace. They’re saying 10 years to fix it and billions of dollars. Somewhere in that 10 years we are going to get an extremely wet spring and we will see a breach and it will be an epic disaster for the northern part of the Delta.

 

[DawgsOnTheWing]

If anyone is curious, the article pic is a swing span RR bridge on the Yazoo River near Redwood in Warren County, just downstream of Hwy 61. The bridge span is permanently rotated, as the RR is abandoned. That is Hwy 465 to Eagle Lake in the background.

 

[turkish]

People can’t fathom how this country would be different if it weren’t for sustained navigability of the River, thanks to the Corps. Even if they could fathom that, the change to MS and LA would be too much to imagine. With that said, the Corp is far from infallible, though, Steele Bayou pumps still alive being exhibit A.

 

[bomanishus]

Kirk Fordice made a ton of money in Delta, LA making and setting conrete mats at the bend of the river to keep the river from encroaching on the Louisiana side. Every year - with rare exceptions - the appropriations would come down to run the mat fields again. Hundreds of thousands of tons of cement was trucked in, turned to concrete, set into forms and turned into mats. Each one about 3x3x20'. Cranes would position the mats and then drop them near the bank. The tbeory was tbat those mats would hold the banks.

Also, last thing - if you haven't read "Rising Tide" by John Barry about the 1927 flood, do yourself a favor. It is excellent on audio book also.

 

[John Deaux VII]

The Corpse also won’t do anything unless they thought of it.

So far their handling of the issue at Arkabutla Lake has been a snails pace. They’re saying 10 years to fix it and billions of dollars. Somewhere in that 10 years we are going to get an extremely wet spring and we will see a breach and it will be an epic disaster for the northern part of the Delta.

That is amazing seeing as how it only took 4 years to build it in the first place.

 

[patdog]

That is amazing seeing as how it only took 4 years to build it in the first place.

There’s only so much fraud & waste you can do in 4 years. Much better to make it a 10-year project. If you work it right you can turn that into a very lucrative retirement project.

 

[CoastTrash]

What’s the corpse of engineers? Sounds dead

 

[TerzaghiDawg]

There’s only so much fraud & waste you can do in 4 years. Much better to make it a 10-year project. If you work it right you can turn that into a very lucrative retirement project.

What are you talking about? You guys are crazy..

Most dams take 3 years to design and 5 years to build.

You dont just pile up dirt and call it good.

The dam is over 80 years old and needs the entire outlet works reconstructed.

Took 11 years to plan and design the dam (1928 flood control act to 1939 when construction started).Took over 4 years to build orginally.

Thus, the new outlet works is under design which will take 3 years (2025-2028) and construction which will take 5 years (2028-2033).

The Corpse can’t do anything without funding.. they just got funding this year to move forward.

The new project will require over 1 m cubic yards of dirt.. that’s over 300 miles of dump trucks lined end to end. It’s a 70-80ft tall dam.. not some rinky-dink dam in your subdivision.

Wow..

 

[MSUDOG24]

This is one of those "I wish my father was still alive" that I could send it to him and get his perspective. Career CoE officer and how I ended up in Vicksburg so guessing he would have some thoughts. I don't know the particulars about this but have to say with everything I read/see these days my first reaction is, I wonder what the other/another side of the story is.
"This stuff is wildly complicated" and "the politics behind it" reminded me of how he seemed to come to know the Congressmen and Senators of MS so well.

 

[TerzaghiDawg]

This is one of those "I wish my father was still alive" that I could send it to him and get his perspective. Career CoE officer and how I ended up in Vicksburg so guessing he would have some thoughts. I don't know the particulars about this but have to say with everything I read/see these days my first reaction is, I wonder what the other/another side of the story is.
"This stuff is wildly complicated" and "the politics behind it" reminded me of how he seemed to come to know the Congressmen and Senators of MS so well.

I would be curious to know too.. what thinks about today work ethic and America in general.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What are you talking about? You guys are crazy..

Most dams take 3 years to design and 5 years to build.

You dont just pile up dirt and call it good.

The dam is over 80 years old and needs the entire outlet works reconstructed.

Took 11 years to plan and design the dam (1928 flood control act to 1939 when construction started).Took over 4 years to build orginally.

Thus, the new outlet works is under design which will take 3 years (2025-2028) and construction which will take 5 years (2028-2033).

The Corpse can’t do anything without funding.. they just got funding this year to move forward.

The new project will require over 1 m cubic yards of dirt.. that’s over 300 miles of dump trucks lined end to end. It’s a 70-80ft tall dam.. not some rinky-dink dam in your subdivision.

Wow..

It's pretty mind-blowing when you find out what the general public thinks about government funding and capital infrastructure projects in general. They don't have a clue.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

People can’t fathom how this country would be different if it weren’t for sustained navigability of the River, thanks to the Corps. Even if they could fathom that, the change to MS and LA would be too much to imagine. With that said, the Corp is far from infallible, though, Steele Bayou pumps still alive being exhibit A.

Steele Bayou is more about politics than the Corp.

 

[vhdawg]

How many engineer corpses does it take to build a dam?

 

[Dawgbite]

I would be curious to know too.. what thinks about today work ethic and America in general.

I can tell you what my father thought of my work ethic, he wasn’t impressed. Around 2001 his criticism finally sunk in, he died in 2005. I’d like to think he’d be proud of the final results.

 

[turkish]

Steele Bayou is more about politics than the Corp.

Debatable. Don’t think for a minute the Corps doesn’t want the work.

 

[johnson86-1]

How many engineer corpses does it take to build a dam?

What do you call enough engineer corpses to build a dam?

A good start.

Hmmmm...doesn't work as well with engineers as lawyers...

 

[johnson86-1]

This is one of those "I wish my father was still alive" that I could send it to him and get his perspective. Career CoE officer and how I ended up in Vicksburg so guessing he would have some thoughts. I don't know the particulars about this but have to say with everything I read/see these days my first reaction is, I wonder what the other/another side of the story is.
"This stuff is wildly complicated" and "the politics behind it" reminded me of how he seemed to come to know the Congressmen and Senators of MS so well.

I think people would be amazed at how much we could get down and how quickly if we stopped building 1,000 different bureaucratic roadblocks into everything. I'm sure there have probably been some really bad projects stopped by a 10 years process trying to get a record of decision, but I bet the impacts are miniscule compared to the good projects that have been stopped. And hell, just the waste of human capital having troves of really smart people basically dedicating their lives to putting into place and then navigating bureaucratic nightmares.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think people would be amazed at how much we could get down and how quickly if we stopped building 1,000 different bureaucratic roadblocks into everything. I'm sure there have probably been some really bad projects stopped by a 10 years process trying to get a record of decision, but I bet the impacts are miniscule compared to the good projects that have been stopped. And hell, just the waste of human capital having troves of really smart people basically dedicating their lives to putting into place and then navigating bureaucratic nightmares.

Bureaucracies aren't the problem......it's the powerful people in charge.

One exception - environmental. But even that is necessary to keep people from dumping toxic waste in the water.

 

[TimberBeast]

Also, if Rising Tide is a great book on the 1927 flood, flood control, and the politics behind it. It's a slog at first, but it's an absolutely wild story that will make you hate the state of Louisiana.

I don't need to read a book to tell me that!