OT: New Orleans Camera Fine question.

[BeardoMSU]

Hey guys,

Quick question. My girlfriend just received a letter from the city of N.O. containing a fine of $135 for turning right on a red-light without coming to a complete stop. Thing is, however, is she was there for a Veterinary conference, and she wasn't driving, her dad was driving her car, on his way to pick her up. The instructions on Nola's traffic website are not very helpful, saying the only way to contest the fine is if the you recently sold the car, or it was stolen. What is the legality of camera fines? I mean, they can't prove she was driving the car, yet they send her a bill demanding payment. I know places like Starkville and other cities, who have initially tried to implement camera fines, have eventually had to drop the program because they end up being challenged legally.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

 

[uptowndawg]

I got one recently. Before I paid I asked a friend of mine who is an ADA for the Orleans criminal court the same question. He said pay it, so I did. Apparently holds as much weight as one given by a cop.

 

[RocketDawg]

They're becoming illegal in more and more states, the reason being what you said ... someone else can be driving the car. Plus, as I understand it, another reason is that they are strictly revenue-enhancing and have nothing to do with public safety. I think they should be illegal everywhere.

I suppose she has to play the fine, but doesn't have to like it. I wonder though if a moving violation is reported to her insurance company.

 

[hydrodawg]

Forward it to her dad.

Hey guys,

Quick question. My girlfriend just received a letter from the city of N.O. containing a fine of $135 for turning right on a red-light without coming to a complete stop. Thing is, however, is she was there for a Veterinary conference, and she wasn't driving, her dad was driving her car, on his way to pick her up. The instructions on Nola's traffic website are not very helpful, saying the only way to contest the fine is if the you recently sold the car, or it was stolen. What is the legality of camera fines? I mean, they can't prove she was driving the car, yet they send her a bill demanding payment. I know places like Starkville and other cities, who have initially tried to implement camera fines, have eventually had to drop the program because they end up being challenged legally.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I got one in St Louis a couple of years ago for the same thing. You don't have much wiggle room. Pay it.

 

[Dawg4ever49]

Take a Picture of $135.00 and mail it in

Even if you intend to pay it, send in a picture as well... My wife got a camera ticket in Selma AL of all places for running a red light.

 

[crackerjax]

Hey guys,

Quick question. My girlfriend just received a letter from the city of N.O. containing a fine of $135 for turning right on a red-light without coming to a complete stop. Thing is, however, is she was there for a Veterinary conference, and she wasn't driving, her dad was driving her car, on his way to pick her up. The instructions on Nola's traffic website are not very helpful, saying the only way to contest the fine is if the you recently sold the car, or it was stolen. What is the legality of camera fines? I mean, they can't prove she was driving the car, yet they send her a bill demanding payment. I know places like Starkville and other cities, who have initially tried to implement camera fines, have eventually had to drop the program because they end up being challenged legally.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

Burden is always on the state to prove you're guilty. You don't have to prove you weren't driving the car. They have to prove you were. Challenge it. Some places let you appeal in writing. If so, do it.

 

[Bucky Dog]

They just passed a law here in LA that the cities must post street signs now saying that you are entering a camera enforcement zone, whether it be radar for speed or at traffic lights. I know in Lafayette they max the fines at $25 and the ticket does not go on your driving record because they legally cannot actually prove who was driving the car. They just fine the car!!!

 

[Digging dog]

New Orleans would be the last place you would want to have an warrant for an outstanding traffic fine...... PAY IT.

 

[uptowndawg]

They just passed a law here in LA that the cities must post street signs now saying that you are entering a camera enforcement zone, whether it be radar for speed or at traffic lights. I know in Lafayette they max the fines at $25 and the ticket does not go on your driving record because they legally cannot actually prove who was driving the car. They just fine the car!!!

The way I heard Deke tell it on the radio, it will only apply to State highways.

 

[patdog]

They tried those in Mississippi. A friend got a ticket for running the red light at the Pearl St. bridge & State. She was pissed, but she had to pay it. Then a couple of months later the court ruled they were illegal. It was a real scam because most of the money was going to a company out of Arizona that had installed the cameras and operated them. The city was getting something like 1/4 of the fine. That said, just pay the ticket. Fighting it would be a lot more than $135 worth of trouble and you'd probably wind up having to pay it anyway.

 

[mstateglfr]

They're becoming illegal in more and more states, the reason being what you said ... someone else can be driving the car. Plus, as I understand it, another reason is that they are strictly revenue-enhancing and have nothing to do with public safety. I think they should be illegal everywhere.

I suppose she has to play the fine, but doesn't have to like it. I wonder though if a moving violation is reported to her insurance company.

I think they are great. My wife and I have each received 1 over the last couple years here in Des Moines. We were both speeding above 10mph over the clearly posted limit.

Here, camera tickets dont hit your insurance.

I see cameras as just an extension of the police as a natural progression in the government's efforts to ensure safety on the roads.
Back in the day, cops had to track speed by tailing a car. Then radar came. And overhead speed tracking via plane.
Cameras are just a new technology.


When people run redlights, it is unsafe. Nobody can actually believe the opposite. It is a statistical reality- running red lights is unsafe.
Having a camera at an intersection that has had a high number of traffic accidents due to running a red light, and clearly posting that the camera exists, is equal to having a cop car sit there. A sign and camera will allow drivers to know that if they break the law and put themselves and others in danger by running the red light, they will get a ticket.



As for the issue of who is driving, yeah that sucks. I would hope camera tickets arent reported to insurance in other states.

 

[uptowndawg]

On the flip side

When people run redlights, it is unsafe. Nobody can actually believe the opposite. It is a statistical reality- running red lights is unsafe.
Having a camera at an intersection that has had a high number of traffic accidents due to running a red light, and clearly posting that the camera exists, is equal to having a cop car sit there. A sign and camera will allow drivers to know that if they break the law and put themselves and others in danger by running the red light, they will get a ticket.

I got a ticket for not coming to a stop for a complete 3 seconds before taking a right on red. They had a video of me stopping, but not for the required 3 seconds. I didn't even know that the law was written with a 3 second rule. If it was a cop behind me instead of a camera I know I wouldn't have gotten the ticket.

 

[ReadyReady]

Meanwhile in DC ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...affic-cameras-to-go-live-feb-1/#ixzz2xpSqKun9

According to the District’s fiscal 2014 budget, the city expects to collect an additional $31.7 million from these new traffic cameras this fiscal year.

I think it's pretty ****** to squeeze 10s of millions out of your own citizens, but I'm sure cams are here to stay and will only increase in use. I drive in counties with them all the time and just know that I have to follow the rules there ....

To get around the "I wasn't driving" thing In DC/MD, they are treated as a parking ticket and don't affect driving points or insurance - associated with the vehicle, not the driver. Not sure why that particular approach would be any more illegal than giving out parking tickets.

 

[hullabaloodog]

Go ahead and pay it

I lived in Nola for five years and got a few of them. I hate those things. A while back it looked like they were going to get rid of them, but it looks like they are here to stay. The good thing is that it doesn't affect your insurance. I'd pay it just to avoid the chance of being booted for illegally parking the next time you're in Nola.

 

[elmsurfer1]

I got one from the company I work for...

in Bradenton, FL. Not happy but paid it. It said I had 25 days to pay or fine went up and they reported it so it would add points to my driving license. Really strong arm approach to try to keep you from fighting the ticket.

Hey guys,

Quick question. My girlfriend just received a letter from the city of N.O. containing a fine of $135 for turning right on a red-light without coming to a complete stop. Thing is, however, is she was there for a Veterinary conference, and she wasn't driving, her dad was driving her car, on his way to pick her up. The instructions on Nola's traffic website are not very helpful, saying the only way to contest the fine is if the you recently sold the car, or it was stolen. What is the legality of camera fines? I mean, they can't prove she was driving the car, yet they send her a bill demanding payment. I know places like Starkville and other cities, who have initially tried to implement camera fines, have eventually had to drop the program because they end up being challenged legally.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

 

[The Peeper]

My wife got one, from fvcking France! The ticket is in French and best I can tell from Google Translate she was in a commuter lane w/ not enough people in the car. She said she may have been but she couldn't read the signs that told her that. It was in a rental car and I guess the French police went through a lot of trouble and got our address from rental receipt. Needless to say that ones not getting paid, but I am going to have some fun w/ it later. Think I'm going to cut/paste an Interpol logo on a letter and tell her she is an internationally wanted criminal.......

 

[bsquared24]

Pay it

Just pay it, I hate the things but it isn't about who was driving the car its about what the car did. Think of it just like a parking ticket. They don't care who parked it there they just know its a violation, same with camera ticket. The tickets don't attach to you or your wife or your FIL, just to the car.

The more recent game in NOLA is to get 3 or 4 of these and then go in and say you lost your tag, new tag = no tickets as the camera system is just tied to the tag not the car VIN. Other options include not coming to New Orleans, coming in a different car, taking the tag off your car and telling the cop when you are stopped its in the backseat, etc. I say pay it not to have to deal with the hassle.

 

[patdog]

The more recent game in NOLA is to get 3 or 4 of these and then go in and say you lost your tag, new tag = no tickets as the camera system is just tied to the tag not the car VIN.

Would this really work? I don't think "losing" your car tag would remove it from their computer system. It would just be an old tag in their system and not the current tag for the vehicle.

 

[lanceharbor7]

Got one for the exact same thing

Hey guys,

Quick question. My girlfriend just received a letter from the city of N.O. containing a fine of $135 for turning right on a red-light without coming to a complete stop. Thing is, however, is she was there for a Veterinary conference, and she wasn't driving, her dad was driving her car, on his way to pick her up. The instructions on Nola's traffic website are not very helpful, saying the only way to contest the fine is if the you recently sold the car, or it was stolen. What is the legality of camera fines? I mean, they can't prove she was driving the car, yet they send her a bill demanding payment. I know places like Starkville and other cities, who have initially tried to implement camera fines, have eventually had to drop the program because they end up being challenged legally.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

According to a Solicitor in SC (not Napoleonic code), you can fight it by requesting a jury trial. The state can't produce a person that can prove you are driving the car. Might work if you are in NOLA, probably not worth the $135 shake down if you are from out of town.

 

[bsquared24]

The more recent game in NOLA is to get 3 or 4 of these and then go in and say you lost your tag, new tag = no tickets as the camera system is just tied to the tag not the car VIN.

Would this really work? I don't think "losing" your car tag would remove it from their computer system. It would just be an old tag in their system and not the current tag for the vehicle.

I've not tried it myself but I've heard several people say they have and it has worked. I believe the loophole is created in that you lose your tag and go get a new one from the Law Office of Motor Vehicles, a state agency. The camera tickets are issued by the City of New Orleans who has no clue when or if you get a new tag, they just know that Tag # XYZ123 has tickets on it. I don't believe Nola is as advanced as some other places that can boot any of your cars based on tickets even if it is not that car.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Most of that is probably from cab drivers. Those guys are nuts in DC.

 

[Dog of Tillo]

Here's what you do....you can beat this.

You have a right to face your accuser via the 6th Amendment....

http://personalliberty.com/now-thats-how-you-beat-a-photo-radar-speeding-ticket/


To Whom it May Concern,
I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.
If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.
Sincerely,
Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran