My position on parts availability, comes from discussion about these issues with a Tesla certified collision center's owner in the Atlanta area, who repaired my automobile (due to my incident occurring in proximity). I was made aware of the potential delays, how they had changed, and that were largely improved due to parts distribution changes in both logistics and regional inventory. Comparing late 2020 to early 2018, the once lauded horror show by Tesla detractors has changed to only potential drama. As I previously said, problem spots do remain. But it is not the deterrent to purchase it was 3 years ago.
OT: Tesla car
- Thread starter PhredPhantom
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My position on parts availability, comes from discussion about these issues with a Tesla certified collision center's owner in the Atlanta area, who repaired my automobile (due to my incident occurring in proximity). I was made aware of the potential delays, how they had changed, and that were largely improved due to parts distribution changes in both logistics and regional inventory. Comparing late 2020 to early 2018, the once lauded horror show by Tesla detractors has changed to only potential drama. As I previously said, problem spots do remain. But it is not the deterrent to purchase it was 3 years ago.
An EV will be made soon that will out tow an ICE. Electric motors operate at full torque all the time. Combustion engines do not. That is why the rail industry switched to diesel-electric engines decades ago. The diesel just turns the generator.
I know past results are not an indicator of future costs, but check this out:
In Houston, the price for a used 2 year old base Model 3 is $37,000 to 40,000.
A new base Model 3 is ... $40,000.
I'll agree with the point made here. In my Mississippi terms: Any non-Tesla Electric car with less than 300 miles of range is a universally great second family car (even though it can serve as a primary car to a great number of people). Because of the Supercharger network, I'll shrink that need for a Tesla to 200 (which can be the range of older, smaller capacity cars, after degradation). When Electrify America (of which there is only one station in the state), or other DC Fast Charging networks get more robust, I'll take off that limitation.
Oh and the supercharger network is about to get a lot bigger. TVA, Entergy, Southern Company, and others are building them all over the southeast. https://www.tva.com/newsroom/press-releases/electric-highway-coalition
FYI a 2021 model S needs an 11 minute stop to charge on a trip from Orange Beach, Alabama to Starkville, arriving with 30% of the battery left. Cost of the "fill up? $3. https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=a99c3314-0dd9-46b2-9e74-45c3367e3c49
Have a place to plug in there? Don't have to stop.
Want to drive to Dallas? You'll have to stop 3 times for a total of 42 minutes (11 minutes, 17 minutes, and 13 minutes). All reasonable bathroom stops
I didn’t downvote, but both his post and yours are misleading as hell. 68% of electricity comes from fossil fuels as a singular statement completely ignores the fact that electric cars are four times more efficient at converting energy than ICE cars. So with that 68% of electricity from fossil fuels, you do the same work with 17% fossil fuels in an all-electric as you would with 90% fossil fuels in an ICE car. That’s a hell of a footprint reduction, even if its not a total elimination of fossil fuel usage.
I definitely plan on keeping mine a while. I’ll probably look towards an ICE vehicle when I’m in the market for a fun car again because I miss exhaust noise and rowing through gears, but Tesla can’t be beat for a daily driver. The fit / finish of the interior isn’t up to MB, BMW or Audi, but the overall aesthetic of the Model S interior is fine for me. The refreshed Model S is going to really solve some of the basic issues I have with mine (interior storage being the main one). People have to remember that Tesla is more a technology company that figured out the manufacturing process to make a car that people would enjoy and not a 100+ year old legacy car manufacturer that’s dumping billions into their EV program to catch up.
EV's have their place with those that prefer them, but the premise that they will help change global climate trends is a MASSIVE scam unfolding before our eyes and being pushed by the elitist progressives. Auto manufacturers have taken the bait. If anyone wants to clean the air they need to entice China and India to vastly reduce their reliance on coal powered electrical grids and come up with a suitable alternative.
Well, I’ve been away from the computer for a while (primarily at the baseball games at MSU – THAT was pretty disappointing) since I started this thread and I’m just now getting a chance to read y’all’s advice and comments. I really appreciate the responses. There is a wealth of good information shared as well as the usual comments that have nothing useful to contribute. I’ll try to catch back up here.
RBDog82 and Captain Ron: I appreciate the offer to PM you and will do so shortly.
JoeLee’sSocks: the supply chain issues for parts, etc. you mentioned are a concern. I wonder if other people are still having the same issues or whether this it has improved as time has passed.
Thirty-Two Dive: Thank you (sincerely) for your detailed, point-by-point response. NO sarkasterisks.
You suggested looking at a new Model S because they just refreshed it. What does that mean? Have there been lots of improvements? Anything(s) in particular stand out?
You mentioned that the closest Service Center is probably in Pearl (about 125 miles from me) or Memphis (about 200 miles from me). If I need service and the car is at my house will Mobile Service come out that far? How much should I expect it to cost for them to come out that far (not counting labor and parts if not under warranty) at my location? How long is the warranty anyway and does it transfer to the new owner when the car is sold?
Regarding battery range in cold weather you mentioned that newer Teslas might have a heat pump. How new does the car need to be to have that?
SheltonChoked: You said my nearest “dealer” is Nashville. When you put it in quotes it made me wonder why. Are most Teslas bought from a dealer or online or some other way? What if I want to ask specific questions about their product or service – what is the best avenue for that? I really don’t know.
abetterrouteplanner.com looks like a very useful website. If I plan to only occasionally make road trips, should I pay to join as a member? Do you use it often and have you found their predictions to be accurate?
Go Budaw: That’s a very important point you made about the efficiency of EVs compared to ICE vehicles. Thanks for saying that.
From what I’m starting to gather from y’all’s comments, it’s starting to look like investing in a Tesla may be a good choice for me based on the type of driving I do most of the time – rare long trips and mostly 100-200 miles round-trip per day plus home every night. The Tesla would probably be my main vehicle but I also have an F-150 for when I need to haul something, tow something, or go on longer trips. My primary car now is a Lexus LS-430 but it’s 19 years old even if it has only 84,000 miles on it. I also have a couple of other ICE vehicles so I’ve got spares if I need them. I use the Lexus the most because my wife has mobility issues and it’s a lot easier for her to get in and out of than the F-150.
Some other general questions (assume Tesla Model S):
How much range is left if I arrive at my destination with 30% battery left? In other words, if I arrive at my destination late and wanted to turn in for the night instead of charging, how much range would I have left to drive to a charging station the next morning?
How is the “fit and finish” - inside and out - compared to other cars – say my Lexus for instance? Will I be disappointed with the quality of workmanship?
How well would you expect a Model S hold its value? Would you expect it to depreciate rapidly or about the same as other similarly-priced cars?
What is the lowest state of charge I should let the battery get to? Obviously, I don’t want to run it completely down but what is a safe, from an equipment standpoint, lowest charge level I should let it get to in order to keep from doing damage to it?
I’m sure I’ll think of more questions to ask later.
Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
Phred
RBDog82 and Captain Ron: I appreciate the offer to PM you and will do so shortly.
JoeLee’sSocks: the supply chain issues for parts, etc. you mentioned are a concern. I wonder if other people are still having the same issues or whether this it has improved as time has passed.
Thirty-Two Dive: Thank you (sincerely) for your detailed, point-by-point response. NO sarkasterisks.
You suggested looking at a new Model S because they just refreshed it. What does that mean? Have there been lots of improvements? Anything(s) in particular stand out?
You mentioned that the closest Service Center is probably in Pearl (about 125 miles from me) or Memphis (about 200 miles from me). If I need service and the car is at my house will Mobile Service come out that far? How much should I expect it to cost for them to come out that far (not counting labor and parts if not under warranty) at my location? How long is the warranty anyway and does it transfer to the new owner when the car is sold?
Regarding battery range in cold weather you mentioned that newer Teslas might have a heat pump. How new does the car need to be to have that?
SheltonChoked: You said my nearest “dealer” is Nashville. When you put it in quotes it made me wonder why. Are most Teslas bought from a dealer or online or some other way? What if I want to ask specific questions about their product or service – what is the best avenue for that? I really don’t know.
abetterrouteplanner.com looks like a very useful website. If I plan to only occasionally make road trips, should I pay to join as a member? Do you use it often and have you found their predictions to be accurate?
Go Budaw: That’s a very important point you made about the efficiency of EVs compared to ICE vehicles. Thanks for saying that.
From what I’m starting to gather from y’all’s comments, it’s starting to look like investing in a Tesla may be a good choice for me based on the type of driving I do most of the time – rare long trips and mostly 100-200 miles round-trip per day plus home every night. The Tesla would probably be my main vehicle but I also have an F-150 for when I need to haul something, tow something, or go on longer trips. My primary car now is a Lexus LS-430 but it’s 19 years old even if it has only 84,000 miles on it. I also have a couple of other ICE vehicles so I’ve got spares if I need them. I use the Lexus the most because my wife has mobility issues and it’s a lot easier for her to get in and out of than the F-150.
Some other general questions (assume Tesla Model S):
How much range is left if I arrive at my destination with 30% battery left? In other words, if I arrive at my destination late and wanted to turn in for the night instead of charging, how much range would I have left to drive to a charging station the next morning?
How is the “fit and finish” - inside and out - compared to other cars – say my Lexus for instance? Will I be disappointed with the quality of workmanship?
How well would you expect a Model S hold its value? Would you expect it to depreciate rapidly or about the same as other similarly-priced cars?
What is the lowest state of charge I should let the battery get to? Obviously, I don’t want to run it completely down but what is a safe, from an equipment standpoint, lowest charge level I should let it get to in order to keep from doing damage to it?
I’m sure I’ll think of more questions to ask later.
Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
Phred
They've massively updated the interior, for the first time in years. go check out the web site. Granted, this is an $80,000 car. They've updated it to feel more like one. Cutting edge tech. BUT... You aren't buying a Lexus LS. The materials quality is fairly good, but not Lexus quality (especially before the incoming refresh). Tesla, by design, tries to keep things lightweight, and minimalistic. So, that will take some getting use to, going from a Lexus. It is all function over form.
It also has more range. Approximately 100 more miles than an old P100D. (412 vs 315). Its 0-60 of 3.1 is slower than the 2.4 of the P100D, if that matters. Not to mention, the price difference probably won't be worth the tradeoff. But that is for you to compare and decide, of course.
I'm pretty sure the warranty is transferable, as far as that's concerned. A decade ago, Mobile Rangers used to be like $1/roundtrip mile (minimum $100 service fee. But they got rid of that minimum charge years ago). I think it now depends on the service, and whether it is a warranty call or not. I'm not of authority on service or warranty, for I haven't needed it. The newest Model 3s and Model Ys have a heat pump, which is really efficient for heating. I think the Model S is still uses resistant heating, which uses mucho electricity. Heated seats/steering wheel uses much less energy, than HVAC heating in electric cars. It's not a deal breaker, in the south. But it's something you learn to account for.
Teslas don't depreciate as fast as other cars (The higher end performance trims of the X and S take a long term hit, but not like the German high end cars that eventually, really long term, get mechanically totalled with daily use). But, I expect that to change in the future as the cars are updated, and competent electric cars appear on the horizon, and more Teslas hit the used market, with people upgrading to newer cars.
Keep you car in between 20-80% for daily use, and the battery will last longer than you'll care to keep it. Tesla has an built in buffer (Tesla's is an undefined amount. but like 4-5%), like newer electric cars, that will keep you from using it to a critical point of damaging the battery. You may charge the car to 100% for long trips, but don't let it sit long at that percentage.
Here's some extra... I charge to 95% for trips, or, if I'm going to use a supercharger, that amount of energy to get there +15%. I use the middle 20% of my battery on daily use, to preserve long term battery health. If you use 50% of your battery each day, charge daily to 75%, and run it down to 25%. The more you Supercharge, the less beneficial it is for your battery's long term health. Now, I'm splitting hairs for optimum health. Supercharging is not going to kill your battery, unless you do it alot, and try to charge it to 100% when doing so. Superchargers charge really fast at low energy levels, but taper off, the more "full" it gets. Supercharging from 85-100% will be take approximately more time than charging 10-85%. You can learn alot by going to the tesla owners forums, but it is a lot of either redundancy, or overkill. (like what I usually post).
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Concerning the "supercharger network" for a Tesla, do you have to pay anything to use it? If so, then how is the cost determined? Is it a flat fee?
I'm not sure how soon massless batteries could make sense if they don't come with another technology advance where batteries don't wear out. Until that happens, you're talking about having structural elements of the car that can be taken out and replaced economically. Which means those parts will probably have to be standardized across different cars by a manufacturer if not across different manufacturers.
Coal and natural gas probably shouldn't be lumped together if you're talking about real environmental impacts. Coal is dirtier on things that matter. Not that I'm against coal being used for electricity generation. I'm still of the age group where using natural gas to generate electricity seems wasteful. But if you're worried about environmental impacts, you should want less coal and more natural gas. Of course, you should also want the US to burn more coal to put upward pressure on coal prices and make it more expensive for countries like China and India to burn coal, as they don't have the environmental controls we do on our coal plants.
You are giving "everyone" wayyyy too much credit. Not sure there are many on this forum, but I have heard plenty of very educated people say some really ignorant **** on energy, including thinking that we can be done with fossil fuels in ten years if we just decide to invest in solar and wind. Basically any mainstream profession other that you can think of, except for engineering, it's not hard to find somebody that thinks we can get off fossil fuels.
Just eyeballing it, I think you are leaving out the energy loss from converting fossil fuels to electricity.
Just eyeballing it, you seem to be leaving out the efficiency of a heat engine converting fossil fuels to motion.
I'm sure you remember the ideal otto cycle is only 50% efficient, and you are never driving your car at peak efficiency. Vs a CCGT brayton cycle is 60% and operates there all the time in a power plant.
and, in the TVA region, 40+% of the power has no carbon emissions, which even further increases the footprint reduction.
But you knew that...
A second vehicle as an EV would be great for us. The only challenge we have is that we need a vehicle for towing, and we also need at least one SUV with a third row for kids. And the SUV really needs to be our road trip vehicle. So if we get a SUV that is large enough for the kids and has the towing capacity, it's just more expensive than if we pair a truck for towing with an SUV for kids/trips.
Depends on what car you buy or how many people buy a car with your code.
But worse case you pay to use it. A Model S100 D will cost you about $11 to fill up to 100% from 10%.
For now, Nashville is the closest delivery dealer to you. There are service centers that are closer, (in Pearl and Memphis), but they don't deliver cars right now.
The service center is where you''ll take your car, (or more commonly, it's where the service tech will drive to you from) if something breaks that cannot be fixed with a software update.
Unless you plan on many cross country trips, I wouldn't join A betterrouteplanner as a member. The free site is good enough and you can get to the website on the tesla screen in the car.
Thirty Two did a good job for the other questions, and all I'll add it get the windows tinted with a ceramic tint. Even if it is clear.
As for range at 30%, 1 100D has a 100kw battery, and uses 300 Watts per mile. So at 30% you'd have 30Kw, or about 100 miles. But starting from cold uses more power, so I'd only count on 50-70 miles. The new S has more range so 30% is about 125 miles.
My parents have a model3 and drove it to gulf shores. Plugged it into a 110v/15 amp plug overnight and got 60 miles of charge.
So you think electric cars are four times more efficient at converting energy than ICE cars without accounting for the efficiency of ICE cars? I'm having trouble understanding how this statement from Go Budaw even makes sense if it's not talking about energy lost from converting the fuel to movement:
But way to be snarky when you are missing the point. Very on brand for you.
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Have auto manufacturers taken the bait or are they fishing and consumers are taking their bait too?
Seems like the latter to me. Auto companies recognize there is money to be made in this market and are investing in it to get a piece of the pie.
I agree that in addition to the US reducing its harmful emissions, other countries such as the developing nations you mentioned need to reduce harmful emissions as well for the needle to move.
Woah, I hadnt looked at these numbers before. Very neat.
39% of my state's power is from coal and natural gas.
59% is from wind.
You weren't snarky. I just quoted you confusingly. I was pointing out that Shelton was being snarky while being a dubmass. The statement I quoted from you was showing the part of the thread that Shelton didn't read.
When I responded to you, I was just pointing out that it looked like you were leaving out the efficiency of converting fossil fuel to electricity when coming up with how much work electric cars do with fossil fuels compared to ICE cars.
Say Tesla engine is 90% efficient and Ice is 30% (using higher end ranges for both). That's three times more efficient, but that doesn't account for the fact that if it was 100% fueld by CC natural gas, then you first have a loss of 60%, then you have 90% of that, so you are really at 54% efficiency when you stack converting electric to movement on top of converting fossil fuels to electricity. So you're just under twice as efficient. If you use 90% (tesla) and 22.25% (ICE), then you're right at twice as efficient. IF you drop that down to 68% of the fuel coming from natural gas cc, then you still don't get more than 5 times of work for the same amount of fossil fuel.
That's still simplified because among other things, you also have loss converting oil to gasoline and line losses for getting electricity from the plant to your car. That's why I said just eyeballing it. The result didn't seem right just doing very abbreviated back of the envelope math in my head, but I didn't feel like really doing the math and I could have gotten it wrong.
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I'm not fighting EV's (about ready to look at one) but how does their efficiency stack up when payloads and driving speeds are increased to what we've become used to with our ICE vehicles. I.E. real world, everyday usage.
My bad. I edited my reply, and understand your explanation. I think my original post was perhaps oversimplified, but in any scenario you are looking at a huge leap forward in efficiency even in the “twice as efficient” explanation above. That’s a big deal, even if its not a sweeping breakaway from coal and natural gas. Still a big leap in the right direction that will only get more pronounced with cleaner energy.
It always gets political. Here are some hopefully non polarizing takes.
1. EV's are just better tech. They are already setting the standard for performance and redefining luxury and it's only the top of the first inning in the advancement of EV technology. I think in 10 years there will be vastly more new EV's sold than ICE, even if it was proven EV is more harmful to the environment. Just because they are better in nearly every category except range (for now.)
2. Let's say the mix of electricity generation in the US is 40% NG, 20% coal, 20% nuclear, 20% renewable... And we should say that because those are the numbers. In that case, 20% is worse than gasoline on emissions (coal), 40% is better than gasoline (NG), and the final 40% (nuclear, hydro, wind, solar) is considerably better than gasoline. Add it all up and you are probably, marginally better in overall emissions with EV's... Likely not a major needle mover at this point. But the one thing for certain is you are now only going to rely on domestic sources. We can use our own oil for heavy transport and air travel and power autos with NG, Nuclear, Hydro, Coal, Etc. That's a big deal in my opinion.
3. Once the other manufacturers tilt their production and research into EV's, you are going to see rapid advancement in battery tech. Solid state will probably be here by 2025 and will bring EVs with 600-800 mile range into play. Massless will be cool one day, but solid state will be here in a matter of years.
4. Versatility. I was in a focus group in January of 2020 where we were presented with the possiblity of a "large undisclosed auto manufacturer" was working on a universal platform for their EV's (the infamous skateboard.) The idea is they want to build a 20 year, 1 million mile drivetrain that you buy and after 5-7 years you can replace the body and wear components. This platform could be a 500 hp sports car or a 500 hp off road monster with 35" tires. We worked through the process and decided it was like power tools. Once you have your battery platform, you now can buy all of the different tools you need that are powered by it... It was fascinating to think about. Not sure what will come of it, but fascinating none the less.
5. It's going to be great for the economy. This will be a massive time of innovation and adoption. It will generate new jobs, new careers, and new investment. The US is going to benefit from this the same way we did with microchips, personal computers, software, and the internet revolution in the 80's and 90's.
1. EV's are just better tech. They are already setting the standard for performance and redefining luxury and it's only the top of the first inning in the advancement of EV technology. I think in 10 years there will be vastly more new EV's sold than ICE, even if it was proven EV is more harmful to the environment. Just because they are better in nearly every category except range (for now.)
2. Let's say the mix of electricity generation in the US is 40% NG, 20% coal, 20% nuclear, 20% renewable... And we should say that because those are the numbers. In that case, 20% is worse than gasoline on emissions (coal), 40% is better than gasoline (NG), and the final 40% (nuclear, hydro, wind, solar) is considerably better than gasoline. Add it all up and you are probably, marginally better in overall emissions with EV's... Likely not a major needle mover at this point. But the one thing for certain is you are now only going to rely on domestic sources. We can use our own oil for heavy transport and air travel and power autos with NG, Nuclear, Hydro, Coal, Etc. That's a big deal in my opinion.
3. Once the other manufacturers tilt their production and research into EV's, you are going to see rapid advancement in battery tech. Solid state will probably be here by 2025 and will bring EVs with 600-800 mile range into play. Massless will be cool one day, but solid state will be here in a matter of years.
4. Versatility. I was in a focus group in January of 2020 where we were presented with the possiblity of a "large undisclosed auto manufacturer" was working on a universal platform for their EV's (the infamous skateboard.) The idea is they want to build a 20 year, 1 million mile drivetrain that you buy and after 5-7 years you can replace the body and wear components. This platform could be a 500 hp sports car or a 500 hp off road monster with 35" tires. We worked through the process and decided it was like power tools. Once you have your battery platform, you now can buy all of the different tools you need that are powered by it... It was fascinating to think about. Not sure what will come of it, but fascinating none the less.
5. It's going to be great for the economy. This will be a massive time of innovation and adoption. It will generate new jobs, new careers, and new investment. The US is going to benefit from this the same way we did with microchips, personal computers, software, and the internet revolution in the 80's and 90's.
I actually heard this on the radio the other day. If you spent $100,000 on a Tesla Roadster in 2011, it would be worth $35,000 today. If you bought $100,000 in Tesla stock in 2011, it would be worth $12.1 million.
Keeping an eye on towing for sure
I wouldn't ever tow more than 8-10k lbs in the near future and 15k way down the road. The new Ford hybrid has my attention for sure. The full EV trucks coming out can town a damn mountain, but I'm concerned how practical it will be for towing long distances. Time will solve all of this of course. When I'm old and retired, I might be towing a 5th wheel with an EV and solar panels.
I wouldn't ever tow more than 8-10k lbs in the near future and 15k way down the road. The new Ford hybrid has my attention for sure. The full EV trucks coming out can town a damn mountain, but I'm concerned how practical it will be for towing long distances. Time will solve all of this of course. When I'm old and retired, I might be towing a 5th wheel with an EV and solar panels.
2 questions : 1) Who's gonna own the charging stations 2) if they can be privately owned has anyone checked into building one ?
Ive seen this sort of mentality in tweets too, but its just a really dumb way to look at consumerism. If you invest money, there is a pretty 17ing good chance you will have more of it after 10 years compared to if you spend that money on a depreciating product.
Thats just common sense and its hardly some groundbreaking thought.
If you spend that money on stock, then you dont have it to buy a damn car. Now the argument can be made that you should spend $50K on a car and invest the other $50K and at that point, you are just using hindsight to tell people where to spend their money. Maybe that person wants to enjoy their time on this earth and like being an early adopter of tech.
Maybe someone who can afford a $100K car has other cash on hand to invest in Tesla stock and so they can have their cake and eat it too.
The obvious end result of this sort approach to spending and investment if asset growth is the only motivator is that you buy cheap **** and invest everything else. There are some people who do this, but it isnt a popular lifestyle for a reason.
Again, the OP lives in the TVA area, so 54% of his power is made without making any CO2.
So yeah, an electric car does put out 4x less co2 (or is 4x more efficient).
But you are too obtuse, to see that, as usual.
Tesla says their motors are 97% efficient. And again only 46% of the electrons are made with CO2 sources vs 100% for the ICE. So redo your math with only 46% of the power making CO2.
Also, do your back of the envelope math to see how many KW of power are in your 15 gallon gas tank. see what factor it is higher than the 100kw battery in the OP Model S 100D
Hint: it's about 5x.. 15 gallons of gasoline is ~500 kwh
Also
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Seems like 4x was conservative.
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There is a mix.
If you have a business you can install a 16KW (240v @48 Amp) [up to 34 miles of charge per hour] or a 32 KW (240V @100 amp) [up to 44 miles of charge per hour] charging station in the parking lot. It will cost you about $1,400 each plus the electricity. You can set the fee you charge for people to use it, usually about 10 to 25 cents a minute. not bad if you had a restaurant, supermarket, or a bar where people would spend more than 45 minutes in.
Superchargers are DC chargers. These need a 3 phase 500 amp circuit. I have only seen a few marketed for sale and they are much more expensive ($35,000 to 45,000) and the Power Companies are beginning to install a network for them. Cost for those is between $0.25 to $1 a minute but charge at 350 kw. Most users of this will only be there under 20 minutes.
The power companies are putting in
I think there is going to be some pain for a few years as vehicle demand outpaces infrastructure (public superchargers for example.) I still feel like we are in the early adoption stage (42" plasma TV 480p cost $7k in 2003.... Now a 43" LED 4k costs $235.) Now that GM, Ford
It's going to be amazing what EV's can do in 10 years. I think big auto getting involved is going to really drive down price points. It will be hard to not justify buying EV with 4-500 mile range from GM for the same price as the same model in ICE.
It's going to be amazing what EV's can do in 10 years. I think big auto getting involved is going to really drive down price points. It will be hard to not justify buying EV with 4-500 mile range from GM for the same price as the same model in ICE.
Now do it with real numbers, and not ones you just made up.
Use 40% to 55% with no CO2 for the electricity.
Use 12-20% for ICE
Use 97% for the tesla motor.
Amazing how every time you have to defend yourself, the made up numbers always back you up. and the real ones show you don't know what you are talking about.
Use 40% to 55% with no CO2 for the electricity.
Use 12-20% for ICE
Use 97% for the tesla motor.
Amazing how every time you have to defend yourself, the made up numbers always back you up. and the real ones show you don't know what you are talking about.
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