OT: there’s a lot of truth in this rant

[retire the banner]

Some NBA player’s today need to hear this. As someone who loves the NBA and wants it to succeed, the players need to play and give 100%. It’s a part of the responsibility of being one of the richest human beings to ever walk the the earth. When you’re signing fully guaranteed contracts worth $100s of millions of dollars there’s responsibility that comes with it. Unfortunately, there’s no way to force players to play in regular season or all star games. They’ve gotten soft. Money will do that.

 

[POTUS]

A lot of athletes love the paraphernalia of playing pro sports more than the sport itself. Can't really blame them too much. But also, can't really call them an all-time great when guys like Michael Jordan or Pete Rose would throw an elbow at your grandmother if it meant winning.

 

[22yardpunt]

A lot of athletes love the paraphernalia of playing pro sports more than the sport itself. Can't really blame them too much. But also, can't really call them an all-time great when guys like Michael Jordan or Pete Rose would throw an elbow at your grandmother if it meant winning.

Damn straight!!!

 

[dickiedawg]

I’m sorry, but NBA owners and GMs are not paying you $60 Million dollars a year to play hurt on a Thursday in February. If you have to miss time in order to be at your best for the playoffs, so be it.
Yes, it sucks for the fans paying big bucks for tickets if the star player isn’t out on the court.

 

[POTUS]

Yes, it sucks for the fans paying big bucks for tickets if the star player isn’t out on the court.

If you got a refund when Steph, Luka or Giannis was scratched, it'd be a lot better. Lots of teams only come to an arena once a year. If you're paying to let your kid see those stars and they don't play, that is gutting.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

As far as the NBA goes it’s not the players, it’s the owners and GMs saying sit them. Ja Morant missing nearly every other game especially back to back games is about to drive me insane and it’s not him, it’s the team holding him back.

 

[retire the banner]

As far as the NBA goes it’s not the players, it’s the owners and GMs saying sit them. Ja Morant missing nearly every other game especially back to back games is about to drive me insane and it’s not him, it’s the team holding him back.

I’m sure the owners dictate a portion of it. But I find it hard to believe these players are dying to play basketball and the owners are holding them back. It falls on the player just as much.

Jayson Tatum rarely misses games and he’s played deep into the playoffs every year since he’s been in the league. Some players just aren’t built for it, and it’s becoming more and more common.

 

[BigHarryBolz]

Some NBA player’s today need to hear this. As someone who loves the NBA and wants it to succeed, the players need to play and give 100%. It’s a part of the responsibility of being one of the richest human beings to ever walk the the earth. When you’re signing fully guaranteed contracts worth $100s of millions of dollars there’s responsibility that comes with it. Unfortunately, there’s no way to force players to play in regular season or all star games. They’ve gotten soft. Money will do that.

I certainly wish and want professional athletes to do better and play harder, but they don’t really owe anyone that.

At some point if it causes an issue with dollars to them and owners, they’ll change.

Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

 

[BigHarryBolz]

If you got a refund when Steph, Luka or Giannis was scratched, it'd be a lot better. Lots of teams only come to an arena once a year. If you're paying to let your kid see those stars and they don't play, that is gutting.

Supply and demand will fix that.

 

[mstateglfr]

Supply and demand will fix that.

What are you actually proposing?
...supply the NBA with more teams? Supply the fans with more games so teams come to an arena more often?

 

[ckDOG]

I don't know what the number is but you know your season is too long when it's an easy decision to pull your best players out of the abundance of caution. It's bad for the product and recently why it's hard for me to rationalize buying Grizz tickets in advance. My group of friends has been wanting to grab a suite for a weekend game but we chicken out bc we don't want to be stuck with the bill and watching Scottie Pippen Jr start instead of Ja.

 

[DawgInThe256]

Too many playoff teams and playoff games is a big part of the problem. No repercussions for taking games off. If they don't want to downsize the playoffs, maybe give the highest seeded teams extra home games during the playoffs.

I've also heard a suggestion about raising the minimum number of games for individual awards like MVP. Sounds like a good idea.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Damn straight!!!

Would be better if he'd used the actual MJ gif instead of the Key & Peele knock off. Just sayin.....

 

[POTUS]

Would be better if he'd used the actual MJ gif instead of the Key & Peele knock off. Just sayin.....

Would it though?

 

[BigHarryBolz]

What are you actually proposing?
...supply the NBA with more teams? Supply the fans with more games so teams come to an arena more often?

No. Not surprised you don’t get it.

right now people are going to those games even if the best players don’t play bc they might play.

demand is really high. Supply is limited.

if people quit going demand is lower and supply is up. Owners and players would then be more likely to put out a different product to get demand back up.

 

[retire the banner]

Another banger

 

[HotMop]

If you got a refund when Steph, Luka or Giannis was scratched, it'd be a lot better. Lots of teams only come to an arena once a year. If you're paying to let your kid see those stars and they don't play, that is gutting.

It happens though, I went to a Padres game back in 1994 and Tony Gwynn took both days off.

 

[mstateglfr]

No. Not surprised you don’t get it.

right now people are going to those games even if the best players don’t play bc they might play.

demand is really high. Supply is limited.

if people quit going demand is lower and supply is up. Owners and players would then be more likely to put out a different product to get demand back up.

Its been years of players sitting out though, and demand is still high. If people havent decided to stay home yet, why would they suddenly change behavior?

I didnt understand the point of your post because it didnt say anything of substance. Now that you explained your point, I dont understand your post because your point is just bad.

 

[retire the banner]

It happens though, I went to a Padres game back in 1994 and Tony Gwynn took both days off.

Lol

 

[BigHarryBolz]

Its been years of players sitting out though, and demand is still high. If people havent decided to stay home yet, why would they suddenly change behavior?

I didnt understand the point of your post because it didnt say anything of substance. Now that you explained your point, I dont understand your post because your point is just bad.

God you are really dumb.

the point is that nothing is gonna change as long as people are still watching and going.

 

[mstateglfr]

Wembanyama was put on a heavy restricted minutes plan.

 

[HotMop]

Lol

And it was Tony Gwynn towel night for the Friday game.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Would it though?

YES!

 

[POTUS]

YES!

 

[The Peeper]

Somebody might better start paying attention, owners, players, GMs somebody because the fans are getting sick of them. ESPN just opted out of MLB contract too.

 

[mstateglfr]

View attachment 762373

Somebody might better start paying attention, owners, players somebody because the fans are getting sick of them. ESPN just popped it off MLB contact too.

Clay is a bag of dicks and the number of people who watched or didn't watch the AllStar game is not indicitive of how the NBA is doing as a brand.

Take 20 minutes and look at what NBA franchises are worth now compared to 10 years ago when Silver took over running the league.
Seriously, go do that.


Then come back here and try to defend the claim that Silver and LeBron have destroyed the NBA's brand.
I wish I had a brand that was destroyed as much as the NBA has been destroyed this last decade.


Here, I'll just provide you a place to start.

Report: Warriors' value tops in NBA; Knicks, Lakers next

The Warriors' $9.14 billion valuation was tops in the NBA, followed by the Knicks at $8.3 billion and the Lakers at $8.07 billion, according to Sportico.

www.espn.com

The average NBA team is worth $4.6 billion, a 15% rise over last year and nearly twice the worth from four years ago.

The value of all franchises has almost doubled in the last 4 years...yet Silver and LeBron have destroyed the NBA brand?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

View attachment 762373

Somebody might better start paying attention, owners, players, GMs somebody because the fans are getting sick of them. ESPN just opted out of MLB contract too.

The All Star game gives zero indication of literally anything. Look at the ratings of all the all star games of any league.

 

[The Peeper]

The All Star game gives zero indication of literally anything. Look at the ratings of all the all star games of any league.

It indicates that 80% less nobody's watch it now than formerly did. Year to date NBA is down 5% over same point last year and that's a recovery from double digits earlier in the season.

 

[mstateglfr]

It indicates that 80% less nobody's watch it now than formerly did. Year to date NBA is down 5% over same point last year and that's a recovery from double digits earlier in the season.

And yet actual value of the league has nearly doubled in recent years.
Silver and LeBron have not destroyed the brand.

That is a dumb claim to make and a dumb tweet to repost and defend using AllStar viewership numbers.

 

[POTUS]

And yet actual value of the league has nearly doubled in recent years.
Silver and LeBron have not destroyed the brand.

That is a dumb claim to make and a dumb tweet to repost and defend using AllStar viewership numbers.

Maybe franchise value isn’t the only metric of how good a league is doing? What about viewership? Ticket sales? Are those franchise values propped up by tv contracts that could go away? Are they propped up by inflation? People I listen to, who love the NBA, have acknowledged there’s a problem.

 

[retire the banner]

And yet actual value of the league has nearly doubled in recent years.
Silver and LeBron have not destroyed the brand.

That is a dumb claim to make and a dumb tweet to repost and defend using AllStar viewership numbers.

Maybe franchise value isn’t the only metric of how good a league is doing? What about viewership? Ticket sales? Are those franchise values propped up by tv contracts that could go away? Are they propped up by inflation? People I listen to, who love the NBA, have acknowledged there’s a problem.

Burying head in the sand in regards to NBA’s decline isn’t going to make the problem’s go away. It’s great the NBA secured massive TV deals, but if the league continues on this trajectory, it will face consequences down the road. These consequences don’t happen overnight, glfr.

I’ve seen NBA talking heads say “why are we bad mouthing the NBA? We need to prop it up!” Sure, it’s good to acknowledge good games and players when they occur, but the notion we should completely ignore the lack of effort by the players during competition (which has been heightened since COVID) is bizarre. The media and fans discussing and holding the league accountable when it has a glaring issue is what will drive it back in the right direction.

I watch probably 50-60% of Celtics regular season games the last 20 years, pay for league pass and watch most every NBA playoff series. I love the NBA and want it to succeed more than ever.

Silver has been a cancer for the league, the recent NBPA agreements have been a total disaster. The NBA has always been a player heavy, star driven league - but they’ve taken that and completely abused it. Players have total control over every move. Teams have very little leverage anymore. For example, Damian Lillard signed a max deal with the Blazers, knowing he was going to demand a trade months later and then held the Blazers hostage by dictating which team he wanted to be traded to. Jimmy Butler recently did the same exact thing. Durant declined being traded to the Warriors and Grizzlies at the deadline, even though the trade would’ve been best for all parties involved. The teams GM/ownership are absolutely terrified of being shed in a bad light due to optics and politics. You can’t sustain and operate a healthy league this way. It’s headed for disaster unless there are major reforms.

NBA contracts are essentially meaningless now. Well besides the fact they are fully guaranteed and make the player filthy rich, but the players now hold the teams hostage.

 

[mstateglfr]

Maybe franchise value isn’t the only metric of how good a league is doing? What about viewership? Ticket sales? Are those franchise values propped up by tv contracts that could go away? Are they propped up by inflation? People I listen to, who love the NBA, have acknowledged there’s a problem.

Yes there is a problem with viewership. It seems to be more than just NBA though and applies to many college and pro sports leagues/conferences.
That should help show it is not specific to the NBA and therefore the claim that Silver and LeBron have 'destroyed the brand' is baseless.

I have only been commenting on the claim that Silver and LeBron have 'destroyed the brand'. If any of us were given an anonymous spreadsheet of numbers and a corresponding line graph which charted the collective NBA franchise value over the last 10 years, we would say 'wow, that company has grown a lot!'.
It really is that simple.
The brand has not been destroyed. The NBA's franchises are collectively worth almost double what it was 4 years ago.

Again, the claim that Silver and LeBron have destroyed the brand is what I have been commenting on. Nobody that looks at metrics that measure value would ever claim the brand has been destroyed.

 

[mstateglfr]

Silver has been a cancer for the league, the recent NBPA agreements have been a total disaster. The NBA has always been a player heavy, star driven league - but they’ve taken that and completely abused it. Players have total control over every move. Teams have very little leverage anymore. For example, Damian Lillard signed a max deal with the Blazers, knowing he was going to demand a trade months later and then held the Blazers hostage by dictating which team he wanted to be traded to. Jimmy Butler recently did the same exact thing. Durant declined being traded to the Warriors and Grizzlies at the deadline, even though the trade would’ve been best for all parties involved. The teams GM/ownership are absolutely terrified of being shed in a bad light due to optics and politics. You can’t sustain and operate a healthy league this way. It’s headed for disaster unless there are major reforms.

NBA contracts are essentially meaningless now. Well besides the fact they are fully guaranteed and make the player filthy rich, but the players now hold the teams hostage.

Yep, all these things are excellent points and show the NBA(owners and players) has a lot to address in coming years. Legitimately- the power struggle turns a lot of people away from being fans and needs to be addressed.

And yet...
- the brand is more valuable now than ever before.
- the brand has consistently increased in value under Silver.
- the brand has shot up in value a crazy amount in the last handful of years.

Therefore...Silver and LeBron have not destroyed the brand because the brand is more valuable than at any other point in its existence.

The number of viewers for an AllStar game is a dumb metric to support a narrative. Its simply dumb. That is what started this tangent- its a totally dumb metric to use when claiming the entire NBA as a brand has been destroyed. Its the AllStar game...nobody cares about it and hasnt cared about it for decades. Literal decades. The fact that fewer cared about it this year vs other years means nothing when it comes to whether or not the NBA as a brand has been destroyed.

On a related note, the NFL Pro Bowl has declined in viewers every year since 2019 and in '24 it was 40% of what it was in 2011. The NFL as a brand has not been destroyed though. Pro Bowl(AllStar) viewership doesnt have any bearing at all on whether the NFL as a brand has been destroyed.




Clay Travis is a clown.
Clay Travis used a meaningless statistic to try and push a narrative.
The NBA is more valuable than ever and the brand has not been destroyed, despite Travis' claim.
The NBA has work to do in coming years to address contracts and power struggles.
^ all 4 of these can be true at the same time.

 

[FreshAsHail]

Wembanyama was put on a heavy restricted minutes plan.

And now they will tank the season to get Cooper Flagg. I'm sure the fans just love going to the games for the experience and don't care if their team wins or not.

 

[retire the banner]

Yep, all these things are excellent points and show the NBA(owners and players) has a lot to address in coming years. Legitimately- the power struggle turns a lot of people away from being fans and needs to be addressed.

And yet...
- the brand is more valuable now than ever before.
- the brand has consistently increased in value under Silver.
- the brand has shot up in value a crazy amount in the last handful of years.

Therefore...Silver and LeBron have not destroyed the brand because the brand is more valuable than at any other point in its existence.

The number of viewers for an AllStar game is a dumb metric to support a narrative. Its simply dumb. That is what started this tangent- its a totally dumb metric to use when claiming the entire NBA as a brand has been destroyed. Its the AllStar game...nobody cares about it and hasnt cared about it for decades. Literal decades. The fact that fewer cared about it this year vs other years means nothing when it comes to whether or not the NBA as a brand has been destroyed.

On a related note, the NFL Pro Bowl has declined in viewers every year since 2019 and in '24 it was 40% of what it was in 2011. The NFL as a brand has not been destroyed though. Pro Bowl(AllStar) viewership doesnt have any bearing at all on whether the NFL as a brand has been destroyed.




Clay Travis is a clown.
Clay Travis used a meaningless statistic to try and push a narrative.
The NBA is more valuable than ever and the brand has not been destroyed, despite Travis' claim.
The NBA has work to do in coming years to address contracts and power struggles.
^ all 4 of these can be true at the same time.

Idk why you’re talking to me about Clay Travis, I 17ing hate that guy.

But there’s a deeper issue to his point. LeBron & Silver have not setup the NBA for success in the future. It’s a longer discussion, but LeBron treating the league as the current NCAA transfer portal where he signs 1+1 deals and with no commitment to a team because he believes he’s bigger than the NBA brand has been detrimental. The current NBA fandom landscape is now where the younger generation follows players and not teams - this primarily was started 15 years ago and you can point to the “Decision” for a lot of this.

Silver has been a disaster. No spine and defers to player control which is slowly spiraling out of control.

 

[mstateglfr]

Idk why you’re talking to me about Clay Travis, I 17ing hate that guy.

I mentioned Travis because my initial comments about how the NBA brand hasnt been destroyed was in response to another poster pushing a Travis tweet that claims Silver and LeBron have destroyed the brand.
So I have been directing back to that Travis tweet and post because that is what my comments have been about, so I am trying to keep em tied to just that point.

Good to see you hate that guy because he is a pot stirrer that has hurt public discourse.

But there’s a deeper issue to his point. LeBron & Silver have not setup the NBA for success in the future. It’s a longer discussion, but LeBron treating the league as the current NCAA transfer portal where he signs 1+1 deals and with no commitment to a team because he believes he’s bigger than the NBA brand has been detrimental. The current NBA fandom landscape is now where the younger generation follows players and not teams - this primarily was started 15 years ago and you can point to the “Decision” for a lot of this.

Silver has been a disaster. No spine and defers to player control which is slowly spiraling out of control.

Totally agree that this has, overall, hurt the league and fan engagement.

 

[golferdog]

I don't know what the number is but you know your season is too long when it's an easy decision to pull your best players out of the abundance of caution. It's bad for the product and recently why it's hard for me to rationalize buying Grizz tickets in advance. My group of friends has been wanting to grab a suite for a weekend game but we chicken out bc we don't want to be stuck with the bill and watching Scottie Pippen Jr start instead of Ja.

I've thought the NBA has taken a big step back since Jordan's era. Too many poor role models. Morant gets in trouble every year and his father is an embarrassment to the league with his rants. Too many marquee players sitting out all of the time. I can't take it seriously. That's just my opinion.

 

[mstateglfr]

I've thought the NBA has taken a big step back since Jordan's era. Too many poor role models. Morant gets in trouble every year and his father is an embarrassment to the league with his rants. Too many marquee players sitting out all of the time. I can't take it seriously. That's just my opinion.

Who would view Ja Morant as a role model?...and why?


The Jordan era is when Barkley's infamous 'I AM NOT A ROLE MODEL' commercial aired. Just found that sorta funny, given your comments.

 

[Chesusdog]

And now they will tank the season to get Cooper Flagg. I'm sure the fans just love going to the games for the experience and don't care if their team wins or not.

No need to tank, just hope the Hawks keep losing.

 

[FreshAsHail]

No need to tank, just hope the Hawks keep losing.

I agree there's no need to tank. But if you don't think they will when it comes down to the end and they need to lose then you are just kidding yourself.