After you leave what power does the conference have? We’ll see. How many years would they have that power if they quit sports?
OT- UPC files suit against ACC in Pickens County.
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There's absolutely no doubt that over the years, both in recent history and over the past 75 years, the SEC is and has been considerably tougher than the ACC. Clemson will point to, those they recruit, their recent history in making the playoffs. And, in the SEC, there will be at least 6 "Florida States" (and with Texas and Oklahoma joining, make that, at least, 8) that Clemson will have to contend with, on the field and/or standings. It will be like moving from a small town to a big city, a cultural shock. It is what it is.
I would also point you to this past season's final rankings. 5 SEC teams were ranked in the Top 14 to only one ACC team. Include Texas and Oklahoma, then the final tally is 7 SEC teams to one ACC team. The SEC is a different world from the ACC. The SEC is like competing in 3-dimensional chess whereas Clemson is now playing hopscotch.
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Should Clemson join the SEC and is then is entitled to the extra income I find it hard to envision the eventual demise of their program, or even they regress to just average as you suggest. Like it or not Clemson will in all likelihood thrive in their new conference in about 3-5 years.
I never said their program would die in the SEC. To think they will come in and be the big dog in the SEC is simply not being realistic. Penn State went from independence to Big 10 membership. They have won several conference championships in the past 35 years. But they have had nearly a dozen seasons when they either had losing records or barely above .500 records sprinkled in there. Look at Nebraska. That program is a shell of its power days since joining the Big 10. When you step up to the big leagues, history proves it's not "business as usual". It will be a different world for Clemson, one they have not seen for the past 15 years.
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probably true over time but in the immediate future they would contend. Long term probably not. It will depend on if they can stay where they are talent wise. Dabo adding Matt Luke and what they have done so far has me slightly concerned they may have turned the train back around.
I think everything is changing with a 14 team playoff. The #3 team in either the SEC or Big 10 should get in almost every year and some years the #4 team will get in. I may need to reasearch this more as I may be conservative in my estimation. Clemson will adapt. Clemson suing the ACC is more of a sign of the times and a changing landscape than anything else. The Penn State comparison is not really accurate. They had a legendary coach step down and as big of a scandal as sports has ever seen happen and those contributed to a drop in program competitiveness. Population shifts in the country work in favor of the Southeast schools and against the Northeast these days as well.
Isn't long-term what counts? It's like buying a stock. You might buy one that spikes higher over the course of a week. But there's a reason why you get a tax break for long-term holdings.
What some here are obviously ignoring is the significantly more difficulty in navigating SEC competitive waters compared to that in the ACC. That league has, top to bottom, been either the weakest or near weakest of all the power conferences. To step up to what is generally regarded as the strongest, is one VERY big leap.
The Nebraska example has a much more to do with UN having to unsuccessfully adapt from Osborne/Devaney type of offense to the more current types of offense used today. Unfortunately for them they simply have not been able to attract a coach who has been able to step out of the shadows of those 2 Nebraska legends.
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As it relates to sports in general, I don't care how this works out.
As it relates to USC football, I hope they end up in the SEC as that lightens our load considerably.
As it relates to justice, I hope they and FSU lose their lawsuits.
As it relates to USC football, I hope they end up in the SEC as that lightens our load considerably.
As it relates to justice, I hope they and FSU lose their lawsuits.
EVERYBODY will adapt.
Regarding Penn State, they went 7-6 in 2021 and 4-4 in 2020. Besides, Paterno was gone as of 2011.
Clemson will not be the only school in the Southeast that might benefit from population shifts. ALL SEC schools will. And Penn State was not the only school in the Big 10 affected by population shifts. ALL Big 10 schools were.
We all can come up with reasons why a program is not doing well. But the bottom line is the bottom line.
Agree.
And it puts us at a more equal footing regarding the playoffs. Them being in the ACC and playing an ACC schedule really gives them an advantage over us regarding getting into the playoffs. As you might remember, I have been an advocate for Clemson getting into the SEC for a long time for also the reason you give.
Many of us here have been advocates for Clemson to come into the SEC.
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I don't see Clemson being an annual contender in the SEC as they have been in the ACC. Undeniably, their path is much smoother in the ACC.
If their goal is titles, ACC makes most sense by far. If their goal is money, SEC makes most sense by far.
Our share has already been diluted with the additions of aTm, Mizzou, OU, and Texas.
It appears that the SEC has been tougher than the ACC in football over the past 75 years. Not so in hoops.
When Maryland and Rutgers joined the B10, wasn't it supposed to be a few years before they received any B10 revenue?
IMO, an integral part of a rivalry is being in the same conference as your rival. Makes the contests in all sports more meaningful.
We're lucky to get the crumbs from the table. Conference value burgeoned well AFTER us, but in no way because of us. It was all those upper-level conference games that funnelled SEC teams to more BCS and CFP championships than anyone else. At least three of the four you mentioned will add value in the next negotiation. They'll wind up helping us a lot more than we'll be helping them. Maybe one day, when there really is such a thing as the Starship Enterprise.
If one were to create an SEC from scratch these days, neither Vanderbilt, the Mississippis, nor USC would be invited to join, even though the first three were charter members. I think you could safely say that charter members Tulane and Georgia Tech would also not be invited. Kentucky might be invited because of their basketball legacy.
We got in to the SEC simply because we were the best available option at the time.
Which begs the question, does adding FSU and Clemson actually make the conference better off financially? They'd have to bring SIGNIFICANT value in order to per school payout to increase, and that seems unlikely. If they don't increase the TV market and they don't add substantial value (compared to what we already have), what is the advantage for the SEC to add them?
I'm not saying they don't add value at all, but when you already have Alabama, UGA, UF, UT, LSU, Auburn, Texas, OU, etc, does adding FSU and Clemson really move the needle that much?
I find it odd that our fans think Clemson will fail in the SEC. They have a pretty good record against SEC opponents (including us) over the last 10 or so years. Folks, they don't have to win the SEC to be included in a 14 team playoff. Of the 50 most viewed games last season, Clemson was in as many or more than Ole Miss, A&M, Oklohoma, LSU, Auburn, MIzzou, USC, Miss St., Arkansas, Kentucky, and Vandy. Truth be told, Clemson is a better program than all but maybe two of those over the years. Yes, since we have to play Clemson every year it would be easier for us to schedule another non-conference game if they were in the SEC. But don't be surprised if Clemson is in the top third of the conference when/if they enter the SEC (or Big 10 for that matter).
I didn't say they would fail.
They have fared quite well against SEC teams in one-off matchups, but playing a full SEC slate is a different story.
Unfortunately, this is the truth. But folks ain't gonna like it.
I think it add eyes on the TV. They are both national brands whether we want to admit it or not. If they are added it will actually bring more money into the SEC which would then be distributed to everyone. They only potential problem for us is if the big boys (those new entries included) gang up and want a greater share of the pie than the teams you didn't mention (including us). If that happens we are screwed.
I realize that the divisions are gone now, but the idea of playing Vandy, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee, Mizzou, etc. doesn't seem like such a daunting task. Occasionally Florida and Tennessee are good. There are really only 4-5 of the 16 teams in the conference that are elite. Most are mediocre at best.
Sounds like what F$U and Clemron are trying to do vis a vis the ACC right now.
Spot on 18, spot on. I'm not sure why that's hard for some people to understand. 6 SEC teams made up 29% of the Top 21 last season. Now add Texas and Oklahoma. it comes to 38% of the Top 21. Does anyone really think that Dabo Sweeney wants any part of that? LOL My goodness, look at our 2024 schedule and compare it to Clemson's. Does anyone really think Dabo would prefer to trade schedules?
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You aren’t kidding. We like to think we are safe in the SEC. And we SHOULD be safe, most likely. But if the top 6 or so football schools threatened to leave and start their own conference unless they got a much larger share of the conference money, they would probably get the bigger payout. Those of us on the outside looking in wouldn’t be able to risk losing the top teams.
The SEC has always shied away from that kind of stuff. And, when the ACC signed the grant of rights contract, the SEC leadership bragged about not needing one because we are all committed. But money can turn any relationship sour, as indicated by the rest of the conference grabs. And if that happens in five years in the SEC, we will be stuck with whatever the big boys want to give us.
Count me in as one who thinks clemson will "fail" in the SEC. But what I Mena is that they won't continue 10 win seasons, and conference championships.
They will lose 3 games a year, and sometimes more. And that's IF they even bounce back a little from this slump or whatever they are in. Their last years team? 6 or 7 wins with an SEC schedule.
I had an odd thought about people arguing Clemson will do well. We've spent 30 years saying we were tired at the end of the year because of the schedule, or we didn't have enough wins because of our schedule, or we could have done what clemson did (with wins) had we had their easy schedule. But now that they might actually get something like our schedule, some think they'll do just fine with it. (Reasonably fine....)
They will lose 3 games a year, and sometimes more. And that's IF they even bounce back a little from this slump or whatever they are in. Their last years team? 6 or 7 wins with an SEC schedule.
I had an odd thought about people arguing Clemson will do well. We've spent 30 years saying we were tired at the end of the year because of the schedule, or we didn't have enough wins because of our schedule, or we could have done what clemson did (with wins) had we had their easy schedule. But now that they might actually get something like our schedule, some think they'll do just fine with it. (Reasonably fine....)
I don’t know why anyone thinks the ACC will negotiate a reduced buyout. If Clemson and FSU leave, the conference is dead.
Yeah, just doesn't make sense. Why would they negotiate their death? They either keep Clemson and FSU and live to fight another day, or they lose Clemson and FSU, in which case all other notable programs will follow suit and the conference will cease to exist. In the latter case, buyout money means nothing.
The ACC will ''lawyer up'' and file counter suits galore and use Clemson and FSU league money to do it.
Negotiation is not in the cards.
If they enter SEC, I wonder how long it will take Dabo to change his opinion on using the portal? NIL is most likely making him adjust in recruiting, as everyone else is experiencing.
