Our defense has gone from decent to horrendous in basketball....

[CadaverDawg]

I know that we no longer have much for legs, since we have no depth....but damn.

This is a turd of a team right now. I'd like to see us win another game or two, but I doubt we will. We look slower and slower each game. I think we've run out of gas. Now a ****** team that played with speed and high energy....is just a ****** team. Glad it's baseball season.

 

[was21]

Yeah, it's too bad. I don't know how Corch Ray can keep their hopes alive to continue to fight. They have to be worn out. It's a credit to him and the players that they still don't throw in the towel....unfortunate situation. The telling thing will be his ability to recruit. He has proved that he can corch.

 

[Will James]

Yup unless you can make it to the Hump there is no reason to watch or think about this team.

 

[Philly Dawg]

I like Ray, and like what he's trying to do, and certainly give him the benefit of any doubt with the roster he's got, but can't see how he's proven much of anything.

We do everything poorly. Everything. And we haven't defended well all year, not just recently. Do I think you can blame any of it on Ray? No. But we won't know what kind of coach he is until we have a full roster.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I like Ray, and like what he's trying to do, and certainly give him the benefit of any doubt with the roster he's got, but can't see how he's proven much of anything.

We do everything poorly. Everything. And we haven't defended well all year, not just recently. Do I think you can blame any of it on Ray? No. But we won't know what kind of coach he is until we have a full roster.

I agree that he hasn't "proven he can coach" just yet....but you can't say we didn't play good defense early in the year. We DID play good defense. But now we have no legs and are getting sloppy. No doubt we were playing defense at a high level through the first few games of SEC play.

 

[DAWG61]

How has he proven he can coach? I'm pretty sure we are the worst offensive team in America. That's kinda a big part of basketball coaching. I'm trying to give Ray a pass for this season but his product is just so 17ing terrible it's making the doubt impossible not to creep in. I have already conceited the fact that we won't win another game. I only want to see one thing. Please for the love of fundamentals can Ray get Sword's elbow some what closer to a 45 degree angle. How the hell did he get Alabama POY with his elbow pointed towards the scorers table? He's shot how many thousands of shots in his life and didn't once notice "oh maybe my arm shouldn't be pointed like that". The way he shoots a basketball is the equivelant of a baseball hitter trying to hit with the bat upside down.

 

[CadaverDawg]

How has he proven he can coach? I'm pretty sure we are the worst offensive team in America. That's kinda a big part of basketball coaching. I'm trying to give Ray a pass for this season but his product is just so 17ing terrible it's making the doubt impossible not to creep in. I have already conceited the fact that we won't win another game. I only want to see one thing. Please for the love of fundamentals can Ray get Sword's elbow some what closer to a 45 degree angle. How the hell did he get Alabama POY with his elbow pointed towards the scorers table? He's shot how many thousands of shots in his life and didn't once notice "oh maybe my arm shouldn't be pointed like that". The way he shoots a basketball is the equivelant of a baseball hitter trying to hit with the bat upside down.

I get your point, and agree with you....but of all people to pick on, you're going to single out our best player? Sword is going to be a good one.

 

[msstate7]

Kentucky lost their best player on a team full of blue chips and got blasted by a bad Tennessee team. Rick ray has held this team together even though we've been destroyed by injuries. If Davis or ready can play the point decent for us next year, I think we'll make the nit. That'll be huge turn aroubd

 

[Coach34]

How has he proven he can coach?.

If you cant see it- then it's hard to help you. Many here were saying Cohen couldnt coach his first two seasons when we were giving up 15, 17, and 20 runs in SEC games. Those of us that knew better just endured the comments- just like those of us that can see what Ray is doing.

When you have a serious lack of talent, depth, or experience this is what happens. We look better coached out there under Ray than we have at any time in the last 15 years. We just dont have the experience or talent to get what he wants done.

 

[DAWG61]

Absolutely I'm going to single him out. Sword could be an excellent player but he will never get there with his elbow pointed like that. That's why I'm saying it. How many coaches have failed him at this point in his career already by allowing him to shoot like that? It's very simple. If you can't hold a basketball in the palm of one hand without it falling off then you are holding it wrong. Craig Sword should shoot the basketball with only one hand for an hour every single day and it will force his elbow to be in the right position. It's not difficult.

 

[DAWG61]

There are qualities about Ray that I most certainly see and appreciate. For starters not one of his players has pouted or quit once this entire season. A huge problem with our defense is the lack of a quality 4 man on the floor and the result is getting us crushed on the boards but as of right now Rick Ray's entire basketball team except Jalen Steele can NOT shoot a basketball. This is the most important skill for any team. Until I see improvement in this area alone I'm not going to bother with criticing much of anything else because if Ray's teams can't shoot then he's never going to win consistently.

 

[Hanmudog]

When you have a serious lack of talent, depth, or experience this is what happens. We look better coached out there under Ray than we have at any time in the last 15 years. We just dont have the experience or talent to get what he wants done.

I'm sorry but that is absolute horseshit. Stansbury no doubt laid turds for the last few years but it is insane to discredit the year we went undefeated on the road and won the SEC. That was about a million times better a coaching job than what we are seeing now.

That is not to discredit Ray but your hate of all things Stansbury makes you blurt out some stupid ****.

 

[Coach34]

I'm sorry but that is absolute horseshit. Stansbury no doubt laid turds for the last few years but it is insane to discredit the year we went undefeated on the road and won the SEC. That was about a million times better a coaching job than what we are seeing now.

That is not to discredit Ray but your hate of all things Stansbury makes you blurt out some stupid ****.

So Les Miles won the SEC too? Thats makes what he does a good coaching job also right? And answer carefully- that search option can be a ***** sometimes with past posts....

 

[was21]

Might as well give it up. There are still Stansbury supporters around who will never give it up.

 

[Hanmudog]

Look I like Coach Ray and am not going to say he is a bad coach but I'll be damned if I have seen anything that indicates he is an above average coach at this time. He is making the best of a horrible situation that is Stansburys fault but he has a **** ton to prove before anyone can say he is doing a better job than Stansbury did in the early 2000's.

The book is still open.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Absolutely I'm going to single him out. Sword could be an excellent player but he will never get there with his elbow pointed like that. That's why I'm saying it. How many coaches have failed him at this point in his career already by allowing him to shoot like that? It's very simple. If you can't hold a basketball in the palm of one hand without it falling off then you are holding it wrong. Craig Sword should shoot the basketball with only one hand for an hour every single day and it will force his elbow to be in the right position. It's not difficult.

That is some dumb ****. Not the way you're saying to fix it...but the fact that you are singling him out at a time like now.

So let me get this straight....You wanted Ray to come in and in his first (shortened) off season, ask his best recruit to change everything about the way he shoots a basketball???

Sword scored 25 today. How good would he be right now if we had changed his shot completely? That's not something that can be changed mid-season.

I expect the coaches to change it over time....but to expect that change to have happened before his freshman season is insane. If you want to blame his high school coaches, fine, but Ray didn't want to risk 17ing up the shot of his best recruit as his first move as the new head coach.

There are SO many things you could ***** about with this team, and to single out the guy who is, and has been our best player, is just crazy to me. Once again, I'm not saying your logic in his arm angle and high school coaching is wrong....just the fact you're bringing that up of all things right now. Makes no sense to me.

 

[GetHype]

Might as well give it up. There are still Stansbury supporters around who will never give it up.

I mean, he was the only major conference coach tenured for 10+ years without a Sweet 16 appearance in his entire career. That's all I needed to hear. I love what I'm seeing from Ray's teams and understand the insurmountable task this team faces every time they practice, never mind play, with so few healthy scholarship players. I'll keep watching all year, because I love seeing our players grind out there. That's what State is all about.

 

[DAWG61]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]The reason Sword gets singled out is because his shooting fundamentals are the most obvious and most egregious of anyone on the team. Today was his best game of the year by far but he's shooting 38% fg, 19% 3's and 53% ft for the year. His is an easy fix yet it is allowed to continue. Why? Because Ray is afraid to hurt his feelings? That's ******** and the worst type of coaching imo. Sword could spend only one 17ing hour a week shooting with only one arm and he'd have the issue fixed in no time and your 25 point games would be the norm and not his career best game. You don't even have to criticize Sword if you're Ray by making everyone on the team do it. They all will quickly see the positive results themselves and will eagerly want the change for better.

Nothing motivates a basketball player more than teaching them how to be better and they see the improvement of the ball going through the net. Quit coddling the players. There's way too many posters on this board that coddle the players. Take that **** to Genespage. The most obvious fact about this Rick Ray basketball team is that they shoot the basketball LIKE TOTAL 17ING ****!! The women's team shoots better than they do. I'm not going to coddle grown men trying to make a career out of basketball who represent my University.

The best coaching Craig Sword could get is to get him to shoot the basketball the correct way. Make him fix it and he will come back 20 years from now after making millions of dollars playing basketball and he will sincerely thank the man who had the stones to make him fix it. Let Sword continue to shoot like he does and he will be done with organized basketball in a short 3 and a half years. Should Ray wait another day to let his mechanics magically fix themselves? Tick tick tick Craig Sword's career is ticking away. Who wants to save it or would that be ******** to try and do?[/FONT]

 

[CadaverDawg]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]The reason Sword gets singled out is because his shooting fundamentals are the most obvious and most egregious of anyone on the team. Today was his best game of the year by far but he's shooting 38% fg, 19% 3's and 53% ft for the year. His is an easy fix yet it is allowed to continue. Why? Because Ray is afraid to hurt his feelings? That's ******** and the worst type of coaching imo. Sword could spend only one 17ing hour a week shooting with only one arm and he'd have the issue fixed in no time and your 25 point games would be the norm and not his career best game. You don't even have to criticize Sword if you're Ray by making everyone on the team do it. They all will quickly see the positive results themselves and will eagerly want the change for better.

Nothing motivates a basketball player more than teaching them how to be better and they see the improvement of the ball going through the net. Quit coddling the players. There's way too many posters on this board that coddle the players. Take that **** to Genespage. The most obvious fact about this Rick Ray basketball team is that they shoot the basketball LIKE TOTAL 17ING ****!! The women's team shoots better than they do. I'm not going to coddle grown men trying to make a career out of basketball who represent my University.

The best coaching Craig Sword could get is to get him to shoot the basketball the correct way. Make him fix it and he will come back 20 years from now after making millions of dollars playing basketball and he will sincerely thank the man who had the stones to make him fix it. Let Sword continue to shoot like he does and he will be done with organized basketball in a short 3 and a half years. Should Ray wait another day to let his mechanics magically fix themselves? Tick tick tick Craig Sword's career is ticking away. Who wants to save it or would that be ******** to try and do?[/FONT]

You cant change his shot During the season. Thats the point. That is a post season change. That's the only problem in what you're saying.

 

[Hanmudog]

Might as well give it up. There are still Stansbury supporters around who will never give it up.

By the same token there are some that hated Stansbury so much that we could be 0-30 this year and we would still be reading about how much better it is this year watching the "hustle" and "grinding" while losing by 30 on a regular basis.

I am glad Stansbury is gone but this losing sucks *** and it is hard to tell if the freshmen are getting worse or if they are just gassed. Too many of you get sand in your ****** at the slightest mention of a criticism of Coach Ray.

And for you stupid bastards that cannot read: I am not saying Ray is a bad coach or a bad hire. I am just saying the jury is out on whether he is a good coach because he has nothing to work with.

 

[DAWG61]

And I disagree 100%. He'd shoot 20% points better on his free throws from today until the season is done if he'd simply just tuck his elbow in. It's not a golf swing or a flaw in his pitching motion. Those can't be fixed in season. Tucking your elbow in can be fixed in one day.

 

[Coach34]

I am glad Stansbury is gone but this losing sucks *** and it is hard to tell if the freshmen are getting worse or if they are just gassed. Too many of you get sand in your ****** at the slightest mention of a criticism of Coach Ray.

I really cant believe you just typed that. On 2nd thought, no it's not. And this is what I'm talking about when I say some people can see what's going on- and others like you dont.

We had some minute success early because Ray outcoached some teams bringing out the 1-3-1 and such. But now people have us on film and we have no surprises left. They also see the problems our Freshmen have and can exploit them better. Nothing is going to help this team but getting healthy and time for the young guys to grow up.

It's not that they are getting worse. That's really just dumb as ****. It's borderline retarded.

 

[Hanmudog]

I really cant believe you just typed that. On 2nd thought, no it's not. And this is what I'm talking about when I say some people can see what's going on- and others like you dont.

We had some minute success early because Ray outcoached some teams bringing out the 1-3-1 and such. But now people have us on film and we have no surprises left. They also see the problems our Freshmen have and can exploit them better. Nothing is going to help this team but getting healthy and time for the young guys to grow up.

It's not that they are getting worse. That's really just dumb as ****. It's borderline retarded.

Way to cherry pick. You conveniently left off the "or if they are just gassed" part. Sword played well today but prior to that he and Thomas have shot mind bogglingly awful and turned it over like crazy over the last several games hence my comment.

Ah screw it. Ray is the greatest coach in MSU history and anyone that criticizes him whatsoever is a dumbass. Sound better?

I admit that Stansbury practically destroyed the program that he himself built. Ray has got a long row to hoe ahead of him but you are getting ahead of yourself his status as a head coach.

 

[CadaverDawg]

And I disagree 100%. He'd shoot 20% points better on his free throws from today until the season is done if he'd simply just tuck his elbow in. It's not a golf swing or a flaw in his pitching motion. Those can't be fixed in season. Tucking your elbow in can be fixed in one day.

Wrong. If you've ever played basketball, it is Exactly like changing your arm angle in pitching or your wrists in a golf swing. You cant change it mid season.

 

[DAWG61]

Yup I played basketball and I was the best shooter in my HS. I chose baseball and golf over basketball. Btw you don't really change your "wrists" in a golf swing unless you're a total hack and your wrist isn't flat during impact.

 

[patdog]

Good point, Coach. As bad as we are in basketball this year, we're not any worse than we were in Cohen's first 2 seasons in baseball. Ray has already won more games than most expected this year. But anyone had to know the stretch run with this team would be horrendous given our lack of depth and experience.

 

[Hanmudog]

I think if you look back at the prediction thread at the first of the year then you will see that we have not won more games than most predicted. We are every bit as bad as I thought we would be. Seems like I predicted 7-8 wins.

 

[patdog]

I used to catch hell on this site for how much I supported Stansbury. But this season is ALL on him. Maybe we should have kept him another year after all. Then no one would be bitching about firing him.

 

[DawgsOnTheWing]

Gavin Ware has been improving over the last 4 or 5 games, more so offensively than defensively.

 

[Hanmudog]

Who is bitching about firing Stansbury other than Dawgbreeze?

Stansbury got what he deserved last season. Ray is in an impossible situation. All I am saying is he has not proven one way or the other that we made the right hire. I do think we will be dramatically better next year.

 

[Coach34]

I think if you look back at the prediction thread at the first of the year then you will see that we have not won more games than most predicted. We are every bit as bad as I thought we would be. Seems like I predicted 7-8 wins.

Those predictions were with Wendell Lewis on the team...also didnt think we would lose Steele almost half a season either...

Ask Kentucky how much losing a player can mess up a team

 

[DAWG61]

UK would of still lost by 20 with Noel today. Tennessee beat the **** out of them and Noel wouldn't of changed that. It could of been a lot worse had Martin not called of the dogs with 10 minutes left in the game.

 

[patdog]

Anyone bitching about this season is bitching about stansbury being fired. This is ALL on him. The jury is out on Ray but this year doesn't push it one way or the other. Well have to wait at least another year before we can even start to judge him.

 

[Will James]

Those predictions were with Wendell Lewis on the team

This really changes nothing. Let's be honest.

 

[Hanmudog]

I have no problem with that. I just get tired of seeing posts about how Ray is already a better coach than Stansbury ever was at any point. Maybe he will be but no one knows yet.

This season was going to suck no matter who the coach was so we might as well have made the coaching change when we did.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Wrong on so many levels

I mean, he was the only major conference coach tenured for 10+ years without a Sweet 16 appearance in his entire career. That's all I needed to hear.

First, Bill Carmody has been at Northwestern for 10+ years and never even made it to the NCAAT.

Second, you should know that if someone is able to stay at the same school for 10+ years, it means that they are doing a GOOD job.

Of the 344 current coaches, there are only 12 that meet your 'major conference with 10+ years' criteria and that is 3.5% of the current coaches. The ones below are considered pretty good coaches.

Of the teams that they coach, only one (Northwestern) had a similar BB budget to State; most were 125 to 200%.

Rick Barnes, Texas Longhorns</SPAN>
Billy Donovan, Florida Gators</SPAN>
Kevin Stallings, Vanderbilt Commodores</SPAN>
Lorenzo Romar, Washington Huskies</SPAN>
Bo Ryan, Wisconsin Badgers</SPAN>
Bill Carmody, Northwestern Wildcats</SPAN>
Tom Izzo, Michigan State Spartans</SPAN>
Mike Krzyzewski, Duke Blue Devils</SPAN>
Jim Boeheim, Syracuse Orange</SPAN>
Mike Brey, Notre Dame Fighting Irish</SPAN>
Rick Pitino, Louisville Cardinals</SPAN>
Jay Wright, Villanova Wildcats</SPAN>

 

[CadaverDawg]

Yup I played basketball and I was the best shooter in my HS. I chose baseball and golf over basketball. Btw you don't really change your "wrists" in a golf swing unless you're a total hack and your wrist isn't flat during impact.

Well, if u are being honest, then you would know nothing about changing your shot. I, on the other hand, had a 17ed up shot much like Sword....and it took me an off season of completely changing my form to get it fixed. It felt awkward and used different muscles to change it, and could never have been done mid season without totally 17ing my game up.

You cant change the shot youve used for 20 years just by tucking in your elbow in between games in practice. But you obviously wouldn't know that since you were such a gifted shooter.

If it was that easy, I can assure you it would have been done. You dont make changes to a shot during the season....ask anybody with an ounce of basketball knowledge....that wasn't the "best shooter in their highschool*)

Not saying u are wrong on the fix...just that it cannot be done mid season

 

[DAWG61]

Haha nice post +1. The first two things I was taught at a very young age where to tuck in your elbow and the correct follow through. So you're correct in saying I never had to change my shot mid-season.

Sword should never be thinking mechanics while the clock is running but he can easily tuck in his elbow for free throws. He has to start sometime and let's be honest this season is already down the ******* and his shooting percentages can't get any worse. I see a lot of potential in Sword but he will never reach that potential unless he fixes this. He has to do it. Fred too but his shot looks more like a timing and arc problem along with the incorrect elbow.

I keep bringing this topic up because I can already tell this is going to be an on-going issue with Ray's teams unless someone is brought in to teach mechanics on how to shoot correctly. Ray and none of his assistants are going to address how to shoot a basketball correctly. It baffles my mind that shooting mechanics are not taught on a daily basis at MSU. I guarantee the QB coach and pitching coach teach mechanics daily so why the 17 would the most important aspect of basketball not be taught by the coaching staff? You could literally pick any high school coach in the state of Indiana and watch one of their practices and you'd see shooting drills and the coaches teaching mechanics during every practice.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

When you say "Ray and none of his assistants are going to address how to shoot a basketball correctly", what are you basing that on? How do you know that?

 

[CadaverDawg]

Haha nice post +1. The first two things I was taught at a very young age where to tuck in your elbow and the correct follow through. So you're correct in saying I never had to change my shot mid-season.

Sword should never be thinking mechanics while the clock is running but he can easily tuck in his elbow for free throws. He has to start sometime and let's be honest this season is already down the ******* and his shooting percentages can't get any worse. I see a lot of potential in Sword but he will never reach that potential unless he fixes this. He has to do it. Fred too but his shot looks more like a timing and arc problem along with the incorrect elbow.

I keep bringing this topic up because I can already tell this is going to be an on-going issue with Ray's teams unless someone is brought in to teach mechanics on how to shoot correctly. Ray and none of his assistants are going to address how to shoot a basketball correctly. It baffles my mind that shooting mechanics are not taught on a daily basis at MSU. I guarantee the QB coach and pitching coach teach mechanics daily so why the 17 would the most important aspect of basketball not be taught by the coaching staff? You could literally pick any high school coach in the state of Indiana and watch one of their practices and you'd see shooting drills and the coaches teaching mechanics during every practice.

First off, I agree that this season is a turd, so if there's ever a time to try a change mid season....this would be it. But I still don't think it should ever even be considered mid season.

Secondly, I understand your point about form....but why are you so quick to say that Ray and his staff will never address shooting the ball correctly? Why are you drawing that conclusion already?

He has had 1 off season. And his entire team is 1st year players basically. It would not have been a big confidence builder to say, "hi Craig, hi Flat Top Fred, I'm Rick Ray. You've never heard of me, but the first thing I want to do is change your shooting technique. I know, you've shot that way your whole life....but it's time to change it now."

The only prayer he had at being competitive was for Sword and Thomas to play well. You take your chances with their normal shooting form this year...then try to make adjustments this off season. Or at least I'm assuming that's the way Ray and Co. is approaching it. If Sword plays all 4 years with that same shot...then I apologize to you and admit that you had incredible foresight. I'm just not ready to concede that Ray won't work with those two this offseason yet.