Has perplexed me during the last several years...probably since I can remember. I look at our WR corp and think we are talented enough to get open, but it just seems like we rarely do for big yardage. You guys think its mostly qb related, wr talent, or the defenses we play? Even against the worst SEC secondaries did we have any big pass plays? Against the good Defenses we struggled to even complete passes. The SC game still pisses me off.
Our WR ability to get open..
- Thread starter Hector.sixpack
- Start date
..I have posted here several times that I think the MSU WR's are the recipient of ****** coaching.
They seldom run their routes correctly & none of them possess the killer instinct to fight for hard to catch ball (though you can't really coach that).
Look at Bumphis for example: A lot of raw talent & he can's run a route for ****. Not to mention the only thing Mullen will allow him to catch is those ridiculous lateral passes.
They seldom run their routes correctly & none of them possess the killer instinct to fight for hard to catch ball (though you can't really coach that).
Look at Bumphis for example: A lot of raw talent & he can's run a route for ****. Not to mention the only thing Mullen will allow him to catch is those ridiculous lateral passes.
1) The 2011 offense was built around Relf and Ballard. We were a power running team.
2) Our top 4 WR'swere basically 3 slot guys + a possession receiver. No one respected our deep ball. No one had to be double covered. And frankly, no one could beat man coverage. We have not recruited well at WR. Since Bumphis the only battle we have won is Morrow and he redshirted.
3) We had a young, 1st year WR coach who was promoted from the GA position. It's really tough to get your feet wet in the SEC. He had to be a little over-whelmed.
4) Our passing game was not very sophisticated. See #1. The QB shuffle didn't help. And you are going to lose some confidence when you play Bama, USCe, and LSU.
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2) Our top 4 WR'swere basically 3 slot guys + a possession receiver. No one respected our deep ball. No one had to be double covered. And frankly, no one could beat man coverage. We have not recruited well at WR. Since Bumphis the only battle we have won is Morrow and he redshirted.
3) We had a young, 1st year WR coach who was promoted from the GA position. It's really tough to get your feet wet in the SEC. He had to be a little over-whelmed.
4) Our passing game was not very sophisticated. See #1. The QB shuffle didn't help. And you are going to lose some confidence when you play Bama, USCe, and LSU.
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setup plays very well. For example, we don't throw several quick slants, ins, outs, or comebacks and then bust them with a few double moves once they start trying to jump routes.
Bumphis is a bad example, people talk about his 'great' raw talent but I don't see it. He is quick, not fast and has the hands of DB not a WR. He is a good player but not some great thing that people thought and still think he is. I think after 3 seasons we have seen all that we can expect to see. He showed some promise his freshman year and got everyone's hopes up, but he never really improved on that. I guess it could be argued that it is a coaching issue, but I still just don't see great raw talent.
Other than that, our passing plays are just really limited. The vast majority of them are either quick laterals or long developing play action passes. The play action passes would and do get open more, but by the time they do, our OL has broken down and the QB is getting hit or running for his life. I would like to see us add some quick 5-10 yard passes other than quick slants which we run a couple of times a game.
Also we probably have some of the worst WRs when it comes to moving back and helping the QB out on broken plays. Chris Smith is the only one that comes to mind that I have seen that actually tries to come back and help out the QB on broken plays after his called route is over. I know I have seen Bumphis on multiple occasions just stand there or walk around while Relf or Russell is running to the sideline looking downfield.
Bumphis is a bad example, people talk about his 'great' raw talent but I don't see it. He is quick, not fast and has the hands of DB not a WR. He is a good player but not some great thing that people thought and still think he is. I think after 3 seasons we have seen all that we can expect to see. He showed some promise his freshman year and got everyone's hopes up, but he never really improved on that. I guess it could be argued that it is a coaching issue, but I still just don't see great raw talent.
Other than that, our passing plays are just really limited. The vast majority of them are either quick laterals or long developing play action passes. The play action passes would and do get open more, but by the time they do, our OL has broken down and the QB is getting hit or running for his life. I would like to see us add some quick 5-10 yard passes other than quick slants which we run a couple of times a game.
Also we probably have some of the worst WRs when it comes to moving back and helping the QB out on broken plays. Chris Smith is the only one that comes to mind that I have seen that actually tries to come back and help out the QB on broken plays after his called route is over. I know I have seen Bumphis on multiple occasions just stand there or walk around while Relf or Russell is running to the sideline looking downfield.
you have to spend a ****-ton of practice time repping that out of the gun- which we stay in every play. It takes alot of work for a QB to catch the snap, control the ball, and throw a slant on rhythm. That is why I have always said for Tyler Russell to be the QB- we will have to change the way we practice.You cant have the type of running game we have had the last 3 years, and also spend time throwing slants in a sophisticated passing attack. A QB would have to throw 20-25 of them a day at a minimum- and you have to work the right and left sides for footwork. You only have so much practice time to work on offense<div>
</div><div>Something has to change this Spring</div><div>
</div><div>It's really dumb to keep blaming the WR coach. We had all the WR's returning- and many of them had worked for 2 years under Hud- they didnt just suddenly forget what he taught them. And I'm pretty sure Mirando ran most of the same drills Hud did- because practice is scripted. It's not just show up and decide what you are going to do on the walk out to the field. They have what those guys are going to do down to the minute. We ran the same **** they have been doing the last 2 years- it wasnt like we changed offenses.</div><div>
</div><div>They didnt get as open this year because defenses didnt respect our running game as much as they year before due to our OL being extremely inconsistent</div>
</div><div>Something has to change this Spring</div><div>
</div><div>It's really dumb to keep blaming the WR coach. We had all the WR's returning- and many of them had worked for 2 years under Hud- they didnt just suddenly forget what he taught them. And I'm pretty sure Mirando ran most of the same drills Hud did- because practice is scripted. It's not just show up and decide what you are going to do on the walk out to the field. They have what those guys are going to do down to the minute. We ran the same **** they have been doing the last 2 years- it wasnt like we changed offenses.</div><div>
</div><div>They didnt get as open this year because defenses didnt respect our running game as much as they year before due to our OL being extremely inconsistent</div>
and I understand why we have been doing what we do philosophically in the pass game. I'm with you on hoping that we mix more of that in this spring and open up our passing game with Russell. I hope that Prescott is a good enough passer for this to be a lasting (more than 1 or 2 year) setup. With an open passing game, our traditionally successful running backs, and even a QB with running ability when Prescott is ready, our offense could be great. Add to that our good defense, especially with recent recruiting boosts, we could have a special team in a couple of years. Or it could all go down the crapper, but the potential is there.
Heard Mullen was moving Mirando to TE's.
What games were you watching? Every team we played stacked the box and pressed our receivers.
We have a coach leaving, and he is adjusting the staff to get the possible addition to the staff.<div>
</div><div>as far as watching us- we saw alot more man-free coverage this past season than we did the year before- teams started figuring out they could keep a safety back while playing man underneath and get away with it.</div>
</div><div>as far as watching us- we saw alot more man-free coverage this past season than we did the year before- teams started figuring out they could keep a safety back while playing man underneath and get away with it.</div>
out of demoting successful position coaches.
My favorite part of your post is when you said it's not Mirando's fault because he runs the same drills as Hudspeth. Hell, Stansbury runs the same drills as John Wooden.
Like I said, I certainly don't think Mirando deserves all of the blame. It's mainly a talent issueand philosophy issue. But to think that Mirando, as a 20 something rookie, could be as effective as a 30 something veteran coach with head coaching experience is pretty naive. Mirando himself said he made a mistake by not giving Robert Johnson and Jameon Lewis more reps.
My favorite part of your post is when you said it's not Mirando's fault because he runs the same drills as Hudspeth. Hell, Stansbury runs the same drills as John Wooden.
Like I said, I certainly don't think Mirando deserves all of the blame. It's mainly a talent issueand philosophy issue. But to think that Mirando, as a 20 something rookie, could be as effective as a 30 something veteran coach with head coaching experience is pretty naive. Mirando himself said he made a mistake by not giving Robert Johnson and Jameon Lewis more reps.
<span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">"favorite part of your post is when you said it's not Mirando's fault because he runs the same drills as Hudspeth."</span><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">My point was that the WR's didnt suddenly forget what Hud taught them and start from zero. After 2 years, you can only teach so much. They should have been teaching the younger guys this past year with it being their 3rd year. We didnt change what we were doing. Same ****- different season. So the guys in their 3rd seasons should have known the **** inside out after 2 Falls and 2 Springs</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">If Bumphis, Clark, Smith, and Heavens didnt have the **** down pretty good by September, they aint ever going to get it</span></div>
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">My point was that the WR's didnt suddenly forget what Hud taught them and start from zero. After 2 years, you can only teach so much. They should have been teaching the younger guys this past year with it being their 3rd year. We didnt change what we were doing. Same ****- different season. So the guys in their 3rd seasons should have known the **** inside out after 2 Falls and 2 Springs</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">If Bumphis, Clark, Smith, and Heavens didnt have the **** down pretty good by September, they aint ever going to get it</span></div>
really, what wr that we started would be playing for bama or lsu. even ug, sc or ua (great receivers), the top sec teams. chris smith might get some pt at a possession receiver. we just don't have good wr's. whether it be talent, coaching or development, it just isn't there. not there this year, hopefully something will show up next year.
That's funny, because I remember after the Gator Bowl several posters saying we HAD to hire Mirando because it looked like our WRs had just gotten their first coaching of the year and surely Mirando was to get the credit for that.
is the main reason Bumphis had a "down" year. Like others have metioned, Mullen was caught somewhere between being a power running team and the basic spread. I will agree that our offensive injuries did require adjustments but it seems our creativity on offense from year 1&2 to year 3 was lacking to say the least. We have an identify problem on offense and hopefully we can get that "cleaned up" this spring. Bumphis is very good in space, and I think he should have been our punt returner all year because he is very quick side to side.</p>
<div>as shown here... can we not get the ball to him any other way? He's 5'10" but we throw more jump balls to him than anyone on the roster. So my answer to the original question - we don't have great talent, but we're not doing a good job of utilizing what we do have. I think we've got a decent group of WR and I've certainly seen worse be more productive than ours were this year. I think the bigger problem was playcalling this year & our QBs / OL were also pretty bad.</div><div>
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