Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
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I’ve mentioned that with regards to the PAC and thinking that some of them would end up in the MWC if things fell apart. The MWC schools would be better off as the PAC and getting all the benefits grandfathered into it.
It doesn’t matter. Leaving schools can’t dissolve a conference and escape their financial obligations.
Even if 10 ACC teams found other homes, they are still going to pay because BC, Syracuse, Wake,etc. will get the money as the remaining members of the conference.
That’s exactly the context I read it in. The one remaining PAC12 school could invite the whole MWC and still call it the PAC12.
If the contractual obligations aren't being met, there is no conference. Even if the remaining few want to call themselves that.
In my experience, when we travel east of the Mississippi we say "Cal-Berkeley" and that resonates faster than Cal alone (or even Berkeley alone in many instances). West of the Mississippi we say Cal and over 90% of the folks know who we are talking about.
I'll contrast that with Rutgers and then I have to get into geographic lessons and history of colleges in the USA
You could also mention DeSean Jackson, just to add one more name. Certainly the lack of success is a huge problem. It's not clear to me why it exists except for bad hires as coaches. All the same the branding issue a real one. Even when "Cal" does well, it doesn't add much luster to "Berkeley." The school needs to be one or the other.
You couldn’t be more wrong. Conferences existed before TV, let alone TV contracts.
They won’t go away because a reduction in members allows a TV partner to break their contract.
Not sure what your first point has to do with anything. Conferences existed before the internet but it's irrelevant to the topic.
You said if a conferences loses enough members to lose its TV contract, it ceases to exist.
That is not true. The conference will still exist and the leaving members will be paying the left behind members exit fees plus whatever a court rules on the GoR.
Cincinnati, Connecticut and South Florida revived the exit fees from the Big East schools that left, even though the Big East rebranded as the AAC.
The only way those exit fee obligations go away is if ALL schools find a satisfactory new home, and that isn’t happening with Syracuse, Wake, BC, etc.
sarah, wake, bc, duke, uva, pitt are all fked unless the b12 or pac does a east west thing.
Staying in the ACC is a death sentence for any program that wishes to remain somewhat competitive in the one sport that drives the bus
The amount of $ they've put into FB
Miami, Ville, VT, NCS in particular
GT, Pitt and Duke are interesting cases
Noles opening the 24 season across the pond in Ireland vs. GT
Between Alford's comments, coupled w/Clemson and UNC's comments re. unequal revenue sharing, their ratings, and the brand in general... this program will not be hanging out for 13 years and 500 million dollars short in the ACC
Between Alford's comments, coupled w/Clemson and UNC's comments re. unequal revenue sharing, their ratings, and the brand in general... this program will not be hanging out for 13 years and 500 million dollars short in the ACC
so where did you hear this?
bear in mind, it makes no financial sense for ESPN to do so and SEC is going to get the monies ESPN has.
I get throwing **** on the wall to make it stick but the 'I've heard ESPN will come in to assist' in no way, no form, no shape, makes any practical business sense. ESPN doesn't have to do anything really.
Now if the conference decides to alter their rev sharing, that is another matter but respectfully, if you or anyone thinks ESPN is going to alter the deal to add 100s of millions to a deal they don't have to while knowing they need to pony up for SEC bidding in 4 years, I want the drugs you're smoking
Agree but just a correction the SEC tv deal runs til the vicinity of 2033-2034 a few years before the ACC tv deal does.
Their new SEC GOTW deal with ESPN will be lined up to expire at the same time.
No drugs my friend, though walking the streets of New Orleans yesterday there were plenty to be found
ESPN - doesn't have to do anything. They're also not stupid and don't want 3 top brands to go to **** while dying on the vine. The ACC doesn't exist (it does, but at a MAC level) without FSU, Clemson and UNC. Those 3 staying there til 36 dilutes the conference to a mid major level vis a vis SEC/B1G
When I say come in and help, a few things could happen
1. Unequal revenue sharing
2. Making ACC "whole" and increasing their yearly payout to 5-10 mil behind SEC
What would be their motivation though for doing so is 36k question. Which is, why I've previously stated, it could be a combination of ESPN's assistance, plus enough schools getting their head out of their *** and starting to become proactive in searching for alternative homes, while simotanesly figuring out a way through attorneys (power in numbers) to challenge the GOR
you make zero sense here and are using what you want, vs what we know vs the reality of today's conference landscape
Miami doesn't draw
Wake doesn't draw
Duke doesn't draw,
BC doesn't draw
Pitt doesn't draw
Sarah doesn't draw
Clemson when winning otherwise nada
FSU is legit
ND will do what is in ND best interests and if you think FSU is gonna claim all the rev sharing when ND is affiliated for football I want those drugs
UNC doesn't draw for football outside of carolinas
ESPN has already made it known that SEC is going to compete with Big for dollars so please tell me where this additonal monies is coming from with respects to ESPN?
where
Just because those schools spent on athletics will not compel a media company to pay more for the product. Media will pay for location and brand. Outside of 3-4 maximum 6 names there is very little argument to pay above present day rates.
correct my apologies
so this strengthens our argument against espn doing anything for acc as espn will work to keep sec and make them 'whole' per se, acc is a distant afterthought
acc schools will have to get creative with big12 and pac10 to rebrand and add additional value to their conference.
acc is dead man walking without it
Really, I think the doom and gloom is overdone. Opportunity is there for the bigger names and still will be there for the smaller names in the future when the bigger status schools leave. Yea they will get a lot less money but they can still achieve lofty goals. The playoffs are expanding to 12 and I wouldn't be surprised if it went to 16 somewhere down the line. The big conferences want more inclusion too because it's good for the sport and they don't want outside interference either. Will they get more bids, probably. But there will likely always be room for the smaller status schools as well with the autobids and such.
For the time being, the bigger status schools can be a big fish in a small pond and still achieve big goals and when the time comes opportunity for smaller status schools in these conferences to take that mantle. Cincy has worked its way up from CUSA to the B12, even making a 4 team playoff. Same goes for TCU. Houston is resurrecting success not seen since Drexler/Olajuwon. Opportunity will be there for schools, especially the big status ones stuck for the time being. It's not some automatic death knell.
For the time being, the bigger status schools can be a big fish in a small pond and still achieve big goals and when the time comes opportunity for smaller status schools in these conferences to take that mantle. Cincy has worked its way up from CUSA to the B12, even making a 4 team playoff. Same goes for TCU. Houston is resurrecting success not seen since Drexler/Olajuwon. Opportunity will be there for schools, especially the big status ones stuck for the time being. It's not some automatic death knell.
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There may be way to create some additional value but likely will never close the gap to the SEC/B10. That's just structural because of the schools in each conference, ratings and revenue are driven by that.
But really, like I said in an above post, I don't see it as an automatic death sentence for these schools. Yes they will get a lot less money but for the big status programs they have the opportunity to be a big fish in a small pond and still achieve lofty goals. Even for the small schools, I think there's opportunity in the future when the bigger status schools leave just like with Cincy/TCU or Houston in basketball.
Wake, Cuse and BC are done
However, this goes beyond FB
Unequal revenue (really revenue earned)- though advocated for by the Big 3, I don't think that will fly.
It's about university mission, etc. espec when considering B1G
Athletics accounts for less than 1 % of total revenue for univerisities
From purely a fb prespective, there's 2 valueable properties (FSU/Clemson)
From an all sports prespetive, UNC is up there
From a university mission/research prespective, 3 schools in particular (FSU, UNC and UVA) fit what the B1G is looking for, in addition to being strong across the board in overall athletics
UVA odviously isn't good in FB, which is fine b/c you won't have 20 hammers in a conference
Soccer, bball, baseball, and lax, 4 B1G staples, are where they excel
mission purpose and research doesn't matter ala NU
This is about money, we're now at a point where any school must increase the revenue for all and only 3 schools do that; ND, combo of CAL/Stanford, FSU/UNC
nothing else matters, no one else adds monies required to inclusion into the club.
this is a business decision, nothing else is going to matter now
also, don't be surprised if FL get's poached for another school not named Miami
Money rules the day
Research, mission, etc. brings in money
I don't think they stop at 18/20 - i think they go bigger
ND def # 1 choice
FL getting poached assuming you mean UCF already happened w/B12
You saying SEC/B1G poaching UCF ?
Article is paywall but just posting for the comments. I agree Yormark is a good salesman and trying to shake things up and draw attention to his conference however he can. It doesn't mean it will always work but he's being creative at least. I read the B12 is going to do a conference level pro day in the future.
Not paywall.
Not paywall.
Full Interview with Arizona president, no paywall.
Until I see it happen I cannot believe that ESPN will blow up their most advantageous sports rights contract, that has 12 years to run, in a time of corporate austerity to save the brands of a few football schools.
The model that makes ESPN their real money has already dwindled by a third due to cord cutting. It would be extra stupid for ESPN to invest extra money in the ACC now when they may not be able to monetize any gains from that investment at a point not long in the future.
Pitt and Louisville’s best hope is that, since they already have WVU and Cincinnati, the B12 will want to shore up that region instead of having WVU and Cinn as geographic outliers.
Plus I don't necessarily buy the notion that the brands needs saving. They have every opportunity to be big fish in a small pond and still achieve lofty goals. So ESPN can still benefit regardless of which conference they are in.
Research mission etc…. Matter to alumni professors and leadership. Media who pays for the rites to broadcast don’t give two ***** about research.
It's big picture
Not just football and bball
A lot goes into the whole thing
Case in point FSU. B1G would not be looking at them if they still had 1970's level academics (and to the point, FB as well)
Since then, they've grown exponentially, expanded research, completely transformed the university, and are now striving for AAU status, being a top 20 public instituiton in the country while being the co-flagship of the state of FL