Pat Disibato

[MC63]

In his column today in The Southtown, Pat Disabato discusses how Evergreen Park, JCA and Crete Monee easily "upset" higher seeded teams in the first round of the playoffs. He points to the experience they gained playing higher class teams in the regular season than the talent they faced in the post.

This doesn't prove,but it supports, what I've been arguing for a month or so.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/subu...ta-spt-pat-disabato-column-st-1031-story.html

ps: I'm aware that I misspelled his name in the subject line, but I can't edit that out. My apologies to him..

 

[ClownBaby]

Are we really going to act like that guy is the voice of reason when it comes to high school football? Though I did find his tv show entertaining when he used to have it a few years back.

 

[mullin17]

The TV Show is still on.
"Coaches Corner"
Very comical to watch.

 

[RetiredReferee]

His 8A math is a bit off.

 

[wasdo]

Is this kid in high school?

 

[cocacoaler]

In his column today in The Southtown, Pat Disabato discusses how Evergreen Park, JCA and Crete Monee easily "upset" higher seeded teams in the first round of the playoffs. He points to the experience they gained playing higher class teams in the regular season than the talent they faced in the post.

This doesn't prove,but it supports, what I've been arguing for a month or so.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/subu...ta-spt-pat-disabato-column-st-1031-story.html

ps: I'm aware that I misspelled his name in the subject line, but I can't edit that out. My apologies to him..

MC63, there is a part of me that agrees with you and sees your point. My question is this; what can possibly be done about it? Should the IHSA look for a different criteria other than enrollment as a way to determine classification? In my opinion, you can not blame the schools for where they are classified. You also can’t blame them for trying to find the best possible competition during the regular season. Maybe I’ve missed it in prior posts, and if I did, I apologize. But what do you propose should be done?

 

[MC63]

I haven't made any proposal. Apparently, there is a success factor, but I don't think it's strong enough Perhaps tighten that up.

I brought this up originally because guys from JCA, PC and Montini were making a big deal out of their large number of state championships.

Because these teams play "big" schools during the season, and smaller, less sophisticated programs during the playoffs, I feel that they had a huge advantage.

If they were playing the same caliber of team in the playoffs as the regular season, their championship totals would likely be vastly reduced.

I posted the link to the article because the opposition to my position has been very strong, especially from fans of the 3 schools.

 

[Penlight]

I haven't made any proposal. Apparently, there is a success factor, but I don't think it's strong enough Perhaps tighten that up.

I brought this up originally because guys from JCA, PC and Montini were making a big deal out of their large number of state championships.

Because these teams play "big" schools during the season, and smaller, less sophisticated programs during the playoffs, I feel that they had a huge advantage.

If they were playing the same caliber of team in the playoffs as the regular season, their championship totals would likely be vastly reduced.

I posted the link to the article because the opposition to my position has been very strong, especially from fans of the 3 schools.

After years of being one of the more insightful and enjoyable posters on this board, you have really transformed into a bitter guy.
What in the hell happened?

 

[Corey90]

I haven't made any proposal. Apparently, there is a success factor, but I don't think it's strong enough Perhaps tighten that up.

I brought this up originally because guys from JCA, PC and Montini were making a big deal out of their large number of state championships.

Because these teams play "big" schools during the season, and smaller, less sophisticated programs during the playoffs, I feel that they had a huge advantage.

If they were playing the same caliber of team in the playoffs as the regular season, their championship totals would likely be vastly reduced.

I posted the link to the article because the opposition to my position has been very strong, especially from fans of the 3 schools.

MC63
You make valid points. I have thought the same thing for a long time but haven’t verbalized it. I think your on to something but I am not sure their is a fair way to fix it. No matter what you do somebody isn’t going to be happy. I don’t want to minimize any schools Championships but it’s tough to play teams in the CCL blue MC/Loyola etc in the regular season that will be in 8A and then drop to 4-5-6A for the playoffs based on enrollment.

 

[ClownBaby]

MC63
You make valid points. I have thought the same thing for a long time but haven’t verbalized it. I think your on to something but I am not sure their is a fair way to fix it. No matter what you do somebody isn’t going to be happy. I don’t want to minimize any schools Championships but it’s tough to play teams in the CCL blue MC/Loyola etc in the regular season that will be in 8A and then drop to 4-5-6A for the playoffs based on enrollment.

So since JCA (so does Montini some years) struggles in the regular season due to playing playing larger schools they should be forced to play larger schools in the post season? I think there is a better argument to made that they are playing in the wrong conference? I think the ESCC and CCL have acknowledged the conferences were wrong and thats why they are merging next year.

 

[MC63]

So since JCA (so does Montini some years) struggles in the regular season due to playing playing larger schools they should be forced to play larger schools in the post season? I think there is a better argument to made that they are playing in the wrong conference? I think the ESCC and CCL have acknowledged the conferences were wrong and thats why they are merging next year.

If they struggle so much, ho come they're almost always in the playoffs? With a decent seed?

 

[pjjp]

I would be more inclined to applaud lower enrollment schools who played larger schools in the regular season. Seems to me they are challenging themselves. And most of these small, private schools have very little choice as to their conference affiliation. Public schools don't want them in their conferences, so they have to take what they can get.

Football enrollment was used to address the "problem" MC63 alleges. The average enrollment of a school's opponents was figured into the calculation of a school's football enrollment. It bumped up the enrollment number for smaller schools playing larger opponents in the regular season. However, it was applied to all schools. Some public schools who were "penalized" by it, bitched and got the football enrollment calculation thrown out.

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

I’m staying out of this

 

[ClownBaby]

If they struggle so much, ho come they're almost always in the playoffs? With a decent seed?

JCA has missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and Provi has missed 2 of 4 years considering the are strong programs and the playoff bar is pretty low at 5-4 I would disagree with your point.

Provi was 15/16 seeds
Montini 4/16 seeds
JCA 14/16 seeds

Who was seeded wrong?

 

[Corey90]

JCA has missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and Provi has missed 2 of 4 years considering the are strong programs and the playoff bar is pretty low at 5-4 I would disagree with your point.

Provi was 15/16 seeds
Montini 4/16 seeds
JCA 14/16 seeds

Who was seeded wrong?

As I stated your not going to make everyone happy because their is an argument for both sides. You will never have a perfect solution.

 

[ClownBaby]

I would be more inclined to applaud lower enrollment schools who played larger schools in the regular season. Seems to me they are challenging themselves. And most of these small, private schools have very little choice as to their conference affiliation. Public schools don't want them in their conferences, so they have to take what they can get.

Football enrollment was used to address the "problem" MC63 alleges. The average enrollment of a school's opponents was figured into the calculation of a school's football enrollment. It bumped up the enrollment number for smaller schools playing larger opponents in the regular season. However, it was applied to all schools. Some public schools who were "penalized" by it, bitched and got the football enrollment calculation thrown out.

WWS was the biggest victim of football enrollment in the 90’s they got bumped to 6A with a 5A enrollment. The 95, 96 and 98 teams had 5A enrollment..... would have loved for them to play MC those years.

 

[MC63]

WWS was the biggest victim of football enrollment in the 90’s they got bumped to 6A with a 5A enrollment. The 95, 96 and 98 teams had 5A enrollment..... would have loved for them to play MC those years.

You played us for the championship -- twice -- a few years earlier and guess what?

 

[ClownBaby]

You played us for the championship -- twice -- a few years earlier and guess what?

That’s true but the WWS teams a few years later were at a whole different level and they would have been great games. But it doesn’t matter since the 96 and 98 WWS teams won at the highest level so all MC has is a claim to fake state titles in those years...

 

[Bwm57]

JCA has missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and Provi has missed 2 of 4 years considering the are strong programs and the playoff bar is pretty low at 5-4 I would disagree with your point.

Provi was 15/16 seeds
Montini 4/16 seeds
JCA 14/16 seeds

Who was seeded wrong?

Yeah, I agree that JCA and PC were more likely over the past 15 years or so to go into the playoffs with a middle to low seed due to their regular season schedule.
Once the playoffs started though, those seeds didn’t matter.

 

[ClownBaby]

Yeah, I agree that JCA and PC were more likely over the past 15 years or so to go into the playoffs with a middle to low seed due to their regular season schedule.
Once the playoffs started though, those seeds didn’t matter.

If anything having a lower seed due to tough regular season actually made their playoff road tougher by having to play tougher road games in the first and second round.

 

[wasdo]

MC63
You make valid points. I have thought the same thing for a long time but haven’t verbalized it. I think your on to something but I am not sure their is a fair way to fix it. No matter what you do somebody isn’t going to be happy. I don’t want to minimize any schools Championships but it’s tough to play teams in the CCL blue MC/Loyola etc in the regular season that will be in 8A and then drop to 4-5-6A for the playoffs based on enrollment.

 

[wasdo]

Montini was 6/1 in the CCL blue this year ,so that blows away his theory.

 

[Bwm57]

If anything having a lower seed due to tough regular season actually made their playoff road tougher by having to play tougher road games in the first and second round.

True because you started out with higher seeds from the start.
I wonder what’s the lowest number of total opponents seeds anyone has ever played on their way to the championship?