Pat Patterson
- Thread starter DieHardDawg
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Randy Moss, TO, Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Micheal Irvin, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terry Holt, Fred Biletnikoff, Lynn Swann, and Don Hutson all disagree with Bruiser as well, among others.
Like I said, with a few exceptions. The list of WRs that can change a game all by themselves is short. Larry Fitzgerald is one of the best examples. That guy should've won the Heisman in a landslide over Jason White. He could've made me look like a decent D-1 QB.
However, I'm not betting on Patterson or anyone else for that matter being the next Larry.
Which is why I said he's probably at best 5th on my list of wants for the rest of the spots in our class.
However, I'm not betting on Patterson or anyone else for that matter being the next Larry.
Which is why I said he's probably at best 5th on my list of wants for the rest of the spots in our class.
come on man. Alabama's offense didn't get any better this year with Julio out wide did it? Georgia's with AJ Green? Southern's with Brown?
and they were all true freshmen!
Cease your argument immediately.
and they were all true freshmen!
Cease your argument immediately.
Georgia's offense didn't do nearly as well this year as was originally expected because, are you ready for this, they had a bunch of key injuries on the OL, and therefore the offense wasn't nearly as potent as had been expected. Don't get me wrong. They had a very good offense even still, but the inexperience on the OL kept it from reaching its potential. AJ Green helped, but I'm telling you right now that if you take away Green and give them their O-line back healthy, that offense puts up better numbers.
And I'm not sure which Alabama team you watched, but they were a run first team. Without that dominant offensive line to open up the passing game, Julio wouldn't have been nearly as effective. They pounded it out against teams this year and forced you to play 8 in the box. Andre Smith, as you saw in the Sugar Bowl, was a much bigger reason for their offensive success.
Percy Harvin is a completely different story, because Florida didn't use him as a pure wideout. They used him as a slot back and got him the ball on options and other situations. He awsn't your typical WR.
And I don't know much about USM, because they play in CUSA, and I typically ignore those games.
I'm not saying that having a good WR doesn't help. It does. I'm just saying that I think it falls behind QB, OL, and RB when you're ranking the importance of the positions.
And I'm not sure which Alabama team you watched, but they were a run first team. Without that dominant offensive line to open up the passing game, Julio wouldn't have been nearly as effective. They pounded it out against teams this year and forced you to play 8 in the box. Andre Smith, as you saw in the Sugar Bowl, was a much bigger reason for their offensive success.
Percy Harvin is a completely different story, because Florida didn't use him as a pure wideout. They used him as a slot back and got him the ball on options and other situations. He awsn't your typical WR.
And I don't know much about USM, because they play in CUSA, and I typically ignore those games.
I'm not saying that having a good WR doesn't help. It does. I'm just saying that I think it falls behind QB, OL, and RB when you're ranking the importance of the positions.
Bruiser does have a point, the best passing games in the history of this state weren't due to guys like Eric Moulds, but rather Eli Manning, Doug Buckles, Chris Spencer, Marcus Johnson, and David Cutcliffe.
Chris Collins, Bill Flowers, and Taye Biddle were very average players, and their starting RB that year was one of the worst in the SEC in the last 10 years talent wise.
To me, receivers are a dime a dozen, QB's, coaching, and OL's (in that order) are what produces. Look at how many WR's are in the NFL that didn't play big time college ball, for every Fitzgerald there is a Wayne Chrebet or TO that was overlooked in and coming out of college.
Chris Collins, Bill Flowers, and Taye Biddle were very average players, and their starting RB that year was one of the worst in the SEC in the last 10 years talent wise.
To me, receivers are a dime a dozen, QB's, coaching, and OL's (in that order) are what produces. Look at how many WR's are in the NFL that didn't play big time college ball, for every Fitzgerald there is a Wayne Chrebet or TO that was overlooked in and coming out of college.
from Mississippi- Jerry Rice and Willie Totten. I'd have to say that Totten was made A LOT better because of Rice rather than Rice was made better because of the Satellite.
I don't think the three are mutally exclusive- the three being QB, OL, and WR. Eli was good because he was good. Not because of Buckles, Johnson, Espy, Spencer, Collins, and as much as Eli checked off and the fact that his Dad was Archie Manning, I don't know how much credit Cutcliffe really deserves there. Almost none of his WR's are in the NFL anymore. Spencer and Johnson made it in the NFL, but they would have made it even if Ole Miss had started Ethan Flatt for four years.
I mean, if Taite made Moulds better, why did he never get a shot in the NFL, other than the fact he smoked a lot of pot? If Eli made Chris Collins better, why is he not in the NFL?
And the thing about WR's being least important is ridiculous. And we at MSU have first hand knowledge why- if you don't have good WR's, you're getting 9 in the box EVERY TIME. And it's a lot harder to run against that then when you can throw the ball some.
The NFL has a ton of players that were overlooked at every position- see Matt Cassel, Jeff Saturday, Harrison for the Steelers, heck, who knew that Kevin Dockery would be playing in the NFL right now? I don't think that is something exclusive to the WR position.
I don't think the three are mutally exclusive- the three being QB, OL, and WR. Eli was good because he was good. Not because of Buckles, Johnson, Espy, Spencer, Collins, and as much as Eli checked off and the fact that his Dad was Archie Manning, I don't know how much credit Cutcliffe really deserves there. Almost none of his WR's are in the NFL anymore. Spencer and Johnson made it in the NFL, but they would have made it even if Ole Miss had started Ethan Flatt for four years.
I mean, if Taite made Moulds better, why did he never get a shot in the NFL, other than the fact he smoked a lot of pot? If Eli made Chris Collins better, why is he not in the NFL?
And the thing about WR's being least important is ridiculous. And we at MSU have first hand knowledge why- if you don't have good WR's, you're getting 9 in the box EVERY TIME. And it's a lot harder to run against that then when you can throw the ball some.
The NFL has a ton of players that were overlooked at every position- see Matt Cassel, Jeff Saturday, Harrison for the Steelers, heck, who knew that Kevin Dockery would be playing in the NFL right now? I don't think that is something exclusive to the WR position.
What I'm saying is that you could plug in whatever receivers you wanted into an offense w/ a great QB, great Oline, and good coach, like the 03 Ole Miss team. Those were very average skill guys that produced more than most offenses at OM ever did, all b/c of the most important positions on the field (QB and OL)
On the other hand, great WR can be hidden and useless in a bad offense (Moss w/ the Raiders)
So I absolutely think WR are a dime a dozen. While there aren't many special ones, there are tons and tons of 6'0" 180 lb guys that run under a 4.5, while it's rare to find a guy good enough to play OL in the NFL, much less a great QB.
Look at McNabb's WR, I've never heard of most of them. Did Welker suddenly become a great athlete when he went to NE? Give me a great QB and OL, and I agree w/ Croom that you can find a WR on a street corner to put out there like they did in Green Bay w/ Driver and Jennings (Alcorn and Western Mich guys)</p>
On the other hand, great WR can be hidden and useless in a bad offense (Moss w/ the Raiders)
So I absolutely think WR are a dime a dozen. While there aren't many special ones, there are tons and tons of 6'0" 180 lb guys that run under a 4.5, while it's rare to find a guy good enough to play OL in the NFL, much less a great QB.
Look at McNabb's WR, I've never heard of most of them. Did Welker suddenly become a great athlete when he went to NE? Give me a great QB and OL, and I agree w/ Croom that you can find a WR on a street corner to put out there like they did in Green Bay w/ Driver and Jennings (Alcorn and Western Mich guys)</p>
Actually I think it's been shown on more than one occasion that YP has made up his own "direct quotes" from players. He is an idiot for doing so and it's going to bit him in the *** one day, but he's damn sure done it before and been called out on it.Fratrebel said:
a good line, qb, and coach means you can be successful offensively.
Next you'll tell me with good safeties, a good DC, and a solid defensive line you can put anybody at corner.
There was nothing wrong with Kevin Fant or Omarr Connor. They simply had nobody to throw the ball to.
Next you'll tell me with good safeties, a good DC, and a solid defensive line you can put anybody at corner.
There was nothing wrong with Kevin Fant or Omarr Connor. They simply had nobody to throw the ball to.
<div class="scrolling"> <div> and FWIW, i believe he will sign with Ole Miss. But this will always be in the minds of State and OM fans during recruiting battles: Jan 28, 2007 My visits are over - I'm tired. I have enjoyed travelling with my Mom, she deserved some trips, but I have been bleeding Red & Blue for a year now and I'm going to be a Rebel," said Elliott, fresh off his latest official visit to Mississippi State. Elliott, the 6-1, 200-pound speedster who is rated a 4-star prospect by Scout.com, has been the subject of constant and relentless rumors the past few weeks about him backing off of his commitment to Ole Miss. "None of them were true. Every time you guys (Scout) called me, I told you the same thing - I was committed to Ole Miss," he laughed. "I am very excited to be a Rebel. It's done - over.Fratrebel said:
I'm pretty sure that those are DIRECT QUOTES from YP as well. </div> </div>
And that's all I'm saying. Of course good receivers help, but you can have a lot of success offensively without a good receiver. It's a lot tougher to have offensive success if you don't have a good QB.
Would we have been better with Moulds for Eli to throw to? Of course. But Moulds wouldn't have made as much of a difference to our offense as Eli would've made to your offense with Moulds.
That's all I'm saying. If you could be great at every spot except one on offense (using QB, RB, WR, and OL as the spots), then I'd choose to be great at QB, RB, and OL every time and try my luck with average WRs. Being average at any of the other positions is much harder to cover up than being average at WR. Hence, WR is the least important position on the offense in my opinion.
Would we have been better with Moulds for Eli to throw to? Of course. But Moulds wouldn't have made as much of a difference to our offense as Eli would've made to your offense with Moulds.
That's all I'm saying. If you could be great at every spot except one on offense (using QB, RB, WR, and OL as the spots), then I'd choose to be great at QB, RB, and OL every time and try my luck with average WRs. Being average at any of the other positions is much harder to cover up than being average at WR. Hence, WR is the least important position on the offense in my opinion.