While you are technically correct about talent discrepancies, you can’t possibly sit here and ignore how much better Penn state is developing wrestlers compared to Iowa. Our most aggressive a best wrestler wasn’t even close to being ranked top 10 PFP and transferred from a small school. People gotta stop with the excuses and open their eyes.
Penn St. PBP
- Thread starter GableBeer
- Start date
And Gabe had a win over Rocco at who's number one. Penn State does get a disproportionate amount of number one recruits, but they are just better at what they do with the 5-20 guys. That same class had BK as the number 2. Every program has recruits that don't pan out, its the nature of it. Usually if a blue chip kid doesn't cut it, its evident pretty fast. Its not really regression, its more like a quick burn out. Iowa guys seem to slowly regress year after year. Thats 100% on coaching/environment.
Digging through old big boards is wild. You see all sorts of names you forgot all about lol
C’mon man. How many shots did those two take tonight? They’re both painful to watch. Not looking to score isn’t a talent discrepancy, it’s coaching
Recruiting is on the coach...
Big board ranks from last night
DP- 17. Lilledahl-2
Drake- 5. Blaze-1
Bailey-17. Davis- 42
Block- 22 SVN-4
Williams- 12 Duke-2
Caliendo?? Messenbrink-18
PK/Arnold 3/5. Haines-9
Ferrari-1 Welsh-6 (lost to Arnold in hs)
NA. Barr-7
BK-2 Mirasola-15
DP- 17. Lilledahl-2
Drake- 5. Blaze-1
Bailey-17. Davis- 42
Block- 22 SVN-4
Williams- 12 Duke-2
Caliendo?? Messenbrink-18
PK/Arnold 3/5. Haines-9
Ferrari-1 Welsh-6 (lost to Arnold in hs)
NA. Barr-7
BK-2 Mirasola-15
Intermat had Caliendo #73 that year. Pretty incredible trajectory he is on.
You want a really wild one to dig in, go to pa wrestling. All the PA high school wrestling results are insane. You really see some interesting things.Us parents would wear that site out checking on potential opponents lol.
Rose colored outlook
I went to the dual early on against Bellarmine. Iowa shut them out. I came away with a sick feeling in my stomach. I knew that this team was still nothing close to wrestling the old "Iowa Way", even against vastly inferior talent. Iowa's performance since that time has reinforced that sick feeling.
So sad. Iowa wrestling used to be one of the few positives of the long Iowa Winters.
Rose colored outlook, but...
I went to the dual early on against Bellarmine. Iowa shut them out. I came away with a sick feeling in my stomach. I knew that this team was still nothing close to wrestling the old "Iowa Way", even against vastly inferior talent. Iowa's performance since that time has reinforced that sick feeling.
So sad. Iowa wrestling used to be one of the few positives of the long Iowa Winters.
Recruiting is part of coaching as is development .
100% biggest reason we are where we are. If you can't see it your head is so far up your *** there's no pulling it out
After the match twitter-verse is full on discussion about new techniques Penn State is using on finishing on single legs, while Iowa can't get a shot off. says it all, even if we had the ponies, we ain't training them to run the same race right now.
Wrong. I am not happy with the Brands either, but Talent is the BIGGEST difference. Your guy in the corner, Cael was 0-3 against Brands at ISU. Iowa had better talent. Brands beat Cael a few times early on in Cael's tenure at PSU. Iowa had better talent. Penn State is beating Iowa now because they have vastly superior talent. Cael is a great coach, coaching the best talent in the country.
Pretty amazing that Kish and NDSU could make a guy ranked that low a freshman AA.
Not sure that you can simply point to that. Iowa had higher ranked recruits in 3 matchups last night and all lost. There is something else besides talent.
I don't think this a secret. The one guy that has figured him out a bit is David Carr. Carr is going to be an incredible coach and wherever he lands will be very fortunate.
Iowa winters are now mild with an occasional burst of extremes. Definitely very comparable to Iowa wrestling.
It’s long past time to change the assistant coaches and if TnT aren’t going to do that then all should go.
Dang. I miss those days and coaching philosophy on display. Gable had a way to get his guys to respond. The difference, for me, between Brands and Gable — Brands is a motivator and can light the fire but nobody wanted to disappoint Gable. The fire can be extinguished but to disappoint cuts through the core.
That is a coaching problem. Failure to recruit. Failure to develop talent. Failure to have guys in shape. Failure to advance wrestling skills in whatever wrestlers are on the roster. Failure to even give interviews without looking like an insane idiot. The time for change was 10 years ago, but how can anyone that even remotely cares about Iowa wrestling defend this Failure. Excuses are for wusses and coaching staffs I suppose. Go do the Iowa State dual using your same formula and see how that stacks up. It is all one big coaching failure and it is way past time for a complete clean out of this staff.
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Despite an elite HS status, a wrestler who needs external motivation is far less likely to achieve their goals.
Today's generation seem less concerned with disappointing others, so I'm not sure the father-figure trope works anymore. And anyways, dissappointment is fear-based, so less likely to produce guys who wrestle freely.
Recruiting self-motivated wrestlers who hold themselves accountable better enables coaches to focus on wrestling technique. Having a trained sports psychologists on staff also helps.
Better recruiting and continuously improving mindsets is key.
Nailed it. This is what Cael is so good at. He is able to minimize the pressure for these guys, so when they’re in the biggest, toughest environments, they are able to wrestle freely at their best.
We’ve been bashing because he hasn’t done jack sh*t. This win gives him a little credibility but he still has to show us every time out, not just once in a while. And his conditioning - and he’s not alone - still needs work.
Loved Rocco’s patient win, maybe the only way to beat Angelo. Even the trolliest, slappyist, oldest hiker sees Angelo’s issue. Kneeling before other elite wrestlers won’t always translate to the wins he’ll pile up with lesser foes. With strict refs, it may even cost him stalling points. Poor kid doesn’t seem to know that scrambling out of even a bad takedown attempt is his best weapon against elites. He’s strong and fast enough to improvise in precarious spots (scrambling’s very definition) and should dive into those treacherous waters all day. A coach telling him to continue kneeling (praying?) until the last half minute of period 3 does him no favors.
Ahem, Tom can donate my coaching consultant fee to the National Park Service.
Ahem, Tom can donate my coaching consultant fee to the National Park Service.
Don’t worry, tom told him to make more fakes during his post dual presser….Loved Rocco’s patient win, maybe the only way to beat Angelo. Even the trolliest, slappyist, oldest hiker sees Angelo’s issue. Kneeling before other elite wrestlers won’t always translate to the wins he’ll pile up with lesser foes. With strict refs, it may even cost him stalling points. Poor kid doesn’t seem to know that scrambling out of even a bad takedown attempt is his best weapon against elites. He’s strong and fast enough to improvise in precarious spots (scrambling’s very definition) and should dive into those treacherous waters all day. A coach telling him to continue kneeling (praying?) until the last half minute of period 3 does him no favors.
Ahem, Tom can donate my coaching consultant fee to the National Park Service.
Cael also continues to evolve - every aspect of the program, recruiting, conditioning - his guys always look fresh some saturday night in march while ours look like they should be led out by a civil war drum and pipe duo with all the bandages, which plays a part in the insane record they have in finals and why we only have 3 different individual champs in 10 years - technique.. and on and on. yes, he has the best talent, doubt anyone can argue that, but where he and his staff continue to evolve day after day, season after season... they are maximizing that talent. even when we had superior talent 4-5 years ago, we still only had 1 individual champ, not to downplay how hard it is to get multiple guys into the final.
Penn State shutout Rutgers last weekend and Iowa scored 3 points. Let that sink in. Is Iowa closer to Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Michigan St. and Northwestern than Ohio St, Nebraska, Penn State, Michigan? Will Michigan and Minnesota become battles year in and year out? Program is falling down, down, down.
I have no doubt he will be. But that doesn't justify a complete lack of offense from Drake. There's a reason he has 5 losses this season, it's not a fluke or bad luck.
The recruits in those classes look exactly like the guys on your team now. Good wrestlers. Not very offensive.
Here’s a question for you Iowa fans:
Have you ever seen an Iowa wrestler shoot an outside step single in a match?
Rankings of high school prospects are quite often wrong. No doubt Cael is a great coach but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.
How much, if any, did the absence of Endene as a training partner (before and after being de-rostered) factor into Kueter's and Angelo's recent performances?
And if he stays off the team for the rest of the year?
How would it bode for the rest of the season, if Endene healed up and was back on the roster soon?
If the Brands saw the negative impact of Endene's absence on the team as a whole, I could see them pressing Endene to return sooner rather than later.
I hope Endene returns healthy. Without him Iowa would've likely lost to OkSt the first time.
Surely the Brands understood the implications of a 6/7 loss season, which is what they seem to be facing without Endene.
Gabe had no chance.Because Gabe is really hard to take down and PK is much better offensively, but was likely to get worked by someone as relentless as Haines.
Problem is Gabe's offense is what you saw against really good competition, just doesn't have a ton of skill on the offensive side. That said, he had a chance late, which several did actually, we just sucked when it mattered most.
So Gabe did indeed do his job, he kept the mauling under 30 which was apparently the goal tonight.
Doesn't seem to have the gas tank to "dive into treacherous waters all day ".Loved Rocco’s patient win, maybe the only way to beat Angelo. Even the trolliest, slappyist, oldest hiker sees Angelo’s issue. Kneeling before other elite wrestlers won’t always translate to the wins he’ll pile up with lesser foes. With strict refs, it may even cost him stalling points. Poor kid doesn’t seem to know that scrambling out of even a bad takedown attempt is his best weapon against elites. He’s strong and fast enough to improvise in precarious spots (scrambling’s very definition) and should dive into those treacherous waters all day. A coach telling him to continue kneeling (praying?) until the last half minute of period 3 does him no favors.
Ahem, Tom can donate my coaching consultant fee to the National Park Service.
Gabe has a thick short frame, he needs to close the space with inside tie /contact attacks if he is ever going to improve offensively.
I can’t understand why Angelo can’t let it fly with top 10 opponents. I think he has the skill.
The only way to beat Angelo? Well, if he is playing for a 1-1 match going into OT, then either start wrestling or else just wait for ride-outs, every match is just going to be a coin flip as to whether he wins or not.
It doesn‘t have to be that way.
I think Welsh just showed how to beat Angelo. Hold the center, stiff jab the head, advance him to the edge to draw the stall call and force a bad decision. The 3 point stance had no forward motion and most times 1/2 step back. At least fake some low singles to prevent the stall call. I guarantee refs are going to get aggressive on this.
According to Pyles he dropped to his knees for over two minutes and over thirty times total .
I have no idea why he wrestles that way.