Planned Parenthood Videos...???

[UKserialkiller]

Like Id mentioned a few pages back, I do agree that abortion is no longer a question of law. Thats well settled and almost certainly will never change.

My discussions are about the morality, ethics, and rationale behind abortion.

That's why it's a difficult situation Bigblue. No easy answer. But I still hold firm that a fetus is not a human.

Also, about the individual's rights. Technically we have no say-so if we want to be born or not. Now, if we could develop the technology to ask a fetus about whether it wants to be born or not, then the debate gets more interesting.

 

[-LEK-]

I just think acting like women get pregnant by random chance is silly

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Serious question, not trying to troll and won't judge the answer. Pure curiosity here: when do you believe that life begins for lifeforms that don't have hearts at all, i.e. plants and trees?

To me, if the life form has a heartbeat - its alive.

I dont know enough about trees, etc to give much of an answer. If someone put a gun to my head, id answer that its alive if I can see it above the ground (sprout?).

 

[CatsFanGG24]

LEK thinks the stork brings mommy a baby and puts it in her lil' belly...cute - ask mommy n daddy how it works bud

 

[sluggercatfan]

Can I assume you are not an abstinence only education proponent?

That would be correct...People are going to have sex these days. STUPID not to prevent what it can cause...

 

[sluggercatfan]

Slugger makes me want to abort.

Probably been better if you had been.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

That's why it's a difficult situation Bigblue. No easy answer. But I still hold firm that a fetus is not a human.

Also, about the individual's rights. Technically we have no say-so if we want to be born or not. Now, if we could develop the technology to ask a fetus about whether it wants to be born or not, then the debate gets more interesting.

Definitely a complex topic. The utilitarian benefit of abortion for an already overpopulated planet is a legitimate position and makes several sound points. The pregnant victim of a rape also have valid, compelling points.

Using abortion as some sort of birth control, is not a valid point at all. The "its a womans body she can do whatever she wants" also isnt a valid point, because it isnt just her body. Theres an unborn person, and a father; who should also be considered.

As technology improves, and prenatal tests can test for projected intelligence, athletic ability, etc; I predict this issue will become even more divisive than it already is.

 

[fuzz77]

truly is unlucky for the woman to be forced into pregnancy. if only there were things she could do to avoid getting pregnant.

There is no method short of abstaining that is 100% effective, even the pill sometimes fails.

 

[TheDonJiggy]

There is no method short of abstaining that is 100% effective, even the pill sometimes fails.

Even that's not fool proof. Just ask the ole virgin, Mary.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Is there a reason you decided to harp on this again and quote me for this thread? You took a quote from another thread and put it over here?

Because it shows that there is concern about the PP videos, and there is no need to post about them in a thread about dentists killing lions in Africa. This thread about the PP videos is newer yet longer than the thread about dentists killing lions in Africa, which provides ammunition for the idea that the PP video controversy is at least as big a story as dentists killing lions in Africa. I think we all win when we can have separate discussions about the PP video and dentists killing lions in Africa.

Also, relax. You're more wound up than a dentist who killed a lion in Africa.

Edit: I also never got to do that (quote from one thread into another) on the old format. So score one for the better board. And for dentists killing lions in Africa.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Because it shows that there is concern about the PP videos, and there is no need to post about them in a thread about dentists killing lions in Africa. This thread about the PP videos is newer yet longer than the thread about dentists killing lions in Africa, which provides ammunition for the idea that the PP video controversy is at least as big a story as dentists killing lions in Africa. I think we all win when we can have separate discussions about the PP video and dentists killing lions in Africa.

Also, relax. You're more wound up than a dentist who killed a lion in Africa.

Edit: I also never got to do that (quote from one thread into another) on the old format. So score one for the better board. And for dentists killing lions in Africa.

I was talking more in regards to the media and the general population; not about the people on a sports message board where the majority come from the same region.

And agree on the board. I also find these debates and controversial topics exhausting so I don't know how the political pundits do it.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

There is no method short of abstaining that is 100% effective, even the pill sometimes fails.

Welp, I guess if you want to be 100% sure not to get pregnant there is a way...and if you want 99.9, throw a condom on and back that up with BC.

Things happen, that's fine...but please don't act like you don't know HOW it happens...I know a couple that has had a couple of kids - they were shocked both times! [winking]

 

[UKserialkiller]

I was talking more in regards to the media and the general population; not about the people on a sports message board where the majority come from the same region.

And agree on the board. I also find these debates and controversial topics exhausting so I don't know how the political pundits do it.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Probably been better if you had been.

Hey, I didn't ask for this.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Hey, I didn't ask for this.

Oh, you didn't know that individual's right to life ends when it does not line up with Slugger's belief systems?

 

[IdaCat]

To me, if the life form has a heartbeat - its alive.

I dont know enough about trees, etc to give much of an answer. If someone put a gun to my head, id answer that its alive if I can see it above the ground (sprout?).

Single human cells and even dormant plant seeds are living things. "Alive" is not normally the issue. If that's your gauge, you murder millions with every ejaculation.

 

[wkycatfan7]

This topic didn't seem to come up much until the 60's. Which is interesting all by itself.

 

[UKserialkiller]

This topic didn't seem to come up much until the 60's. Which is interesting all by itself.

When they started finding out the #1 reason why women were going to the ER?

 

[Big_Blue79]

Single human cells and even dormant plant seeds are living things. "Alive" is not normally the issue. If that's your gauge, you murder millions with every ejaculation.

Used to call them drain babies on deployment. As in, "Make sure you wear flip flops in the shower or your feet will be covered in drain babies." You are correct that alive is not the issue.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Single human cells and even dormant plant seeds are living things. "Alive" is not normally the issue. If that's your gauge, you murder millions with every ejaculation.

They have heartbeats?

 

[IdaCat]

They have heartbeats?

The point was that not every living thing has a heartbeat. You pulled heartbeat = living right out of your ***.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

At a minimum, Planned Parenthood needs to raise their own money.

And how would they do that? By selling "baby parts?" I thought that's what started this latest uproar.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

To me, if the life form has a heartbeat - its alive.
...

Define heartbeat. Be specific on when exactly the heart is formed and when exactly it begins to beat.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

The point was that not every living thing has a heartbeat. You pulled heartbeat = living right out of your ***.

Define heartbeat. Be specific on when exactly the heart is formed and when exactly it begins to beat.

Obviously you two missed the part where I said it was my opinion. Im not holding myself out as some medical expert.

Even @IdaCat, your attempted slam is entirely incorrect. I didnt say every living thing had a heartbeat. I said I didnt think a fetus was alive until it had a heartbeat. Then in further discussion, I said my opinion was everything with a heartbeat was living. My statements are entirely consistent.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

Obviously you two missed the part where I said it was my opinion. Im not holding myself out as some medical expert.
...

No, I didn't miss that. But it's irrelevant. You don't get to say "it's my opinion" and think that somehow ends the discussion. After all, you want others to agree with your opinion. So, tell me, when exactly is the heart formed? Be specific. And when exactly does it begin beating? Be specific.

I want to know the exact moment that it goes from being ok to abort to not ok. You drew a line, now define it clearly.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I would be in favor of outlawing abortion after 6 weeks but on the condition the nearest church to the mother's address either pays all expenses for the mother to bring it to full term and the child is legally adopted by a new family or pays all expenses for the child until he/she is 18. If not, no more tax exemption for churches and the child becomes a product of foster care so all taxpayers foot the bill and said child likely ends up f'd up anyway.

Sorry. You don't get to make the rules.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

If the "law" is settled on capital punishment, then why do liberals protest so strongly to defend individuals who committed horrendous crimes? But yet, they also protest to allow for the killing of completely innocent fetuses---almost up to the point of being a fully developed baby.

Where is the logic in this?

...end a life because it isnt wanted here and might grow up to amount to nothing yet open the borders to sumbitches that have proven they arent going to amount to nothing and give them everything to live on. damn, I need a drink.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

No, I didn't miss that. But it's irrelevant. You don't get to say "it's my opinion" and think that somehow ends the discussion. After all, you want others to agree with your opinion. So, tell me, when exactly is the heart formed? Be specific. And when exactly does it begin beating? Be specific.

I want to know the exact moment that it goes from being ok to abort to not ok. You drew a line, now define it clearly.

Im sure it doesnt end the discussion. This is a discussion board after all. But dont act like I held myself out as some sort of medical expert.

I dont know the exact moment. Im assuming its different. in each case. If a medical device detects a heartbeat, no abortion. I really dont think my opinion is that hard to understand. I dont expect everyone to agree with it. So dont confuse understanding and agreeing.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

yet open the borders to sumbitches that have proven they arent going to amount to nothing

lol

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

Im sure it doesnt end the discussion. This is a discussion board after all. But dont act like I held myself out as some sort of medical expert.

I dont know the exact moment. Im assuming its different. in each case. If a medical device detects a heartbeat, no abortion. I really dont think my opinion is that hard to understand. I dont expect everyone to agree with it. So dont confuse understanding and agreeing.

I just don't understand why you're fixated on a heartbeat. Why not limb movements? Why not brain waves? Why not first breath or first words or first steps?

Human life is a complex thing and trying to distill it down to something as arbitrary as a heartbeat strikes me as odd.

Didn't Augustine say that the spirit didn't enter the fetus until quickening?

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

I just don't understand why you're fixated on a heartbeat. Why not limb movements? Why not brain waves? Why not first breath or first words or first steps?

Human life is a complex thing and trying to distill it down to something as arbitrary as a heartbeat strikes me as odd.

Didn't Augustine say that the spirit didn't enter the fetus until quickening?

Just seems like the best way to measure. Im nothing close to a medical expert though. So Im just going with what sounds reasonable to me.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I just don't understand why you're fixated on a heartbeat. Why not limb movements? Why not brain waves? Why not first breath or first words or first steps?

Human life is a complex thing and trying to distill it down to something as arbitrary as a heartbeat strikes me as odd.

Didn't Augustine say that the spirit didn't enter the fetus until quickening?

Couldn't this be argued in reverse? Why is 24 weeks the cutoff? Why not 34? Why not pull that thing out and see if it's up to your standards or not...don't know why your are getting on his heartbeat deal, when you aren't staying your thoughts on timing.

Doesn't seem like a fair and consistent criticism.

 

[_nelson3]

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

Couldn't this be argued in reverse? Why is 24 weeks the cutoff? Why not 34? Why not pull that thing out and see if it's up to your standards or not...don't know why your are getting on his heartbeat deal, when you aren't staying your thoughts on timing.

That's exactly my point. It's all arbitrary. It's fairly easy to deal with the extremes (partial birth abortion vs <1 week), but not so easy to deal with the massive area between those extremes.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

Im sure it doesnt end the discussion. This is a discussion board after all. But dont act like I held myself out as some sort of medical expert.

I dont know the exact moment. Im assuming its different. in each case. If a medical device detects a heartbeat, no abortion. I really dont think my opinion is that hard to understand. I dont expect everyone to agree with it. So dont confuse understanding and agreeing.

Sure, on the surface it may seem like a good way to decide the issue. Heartbeat? Then no abortion allowed. No heartbeat? Abortion allowed.

But when you dig a little deeper, you realize it's not so cut and dry. We can probably all agree that at 3 days, the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat. And at 8 months it does. But what about that grey area in between? Is there an exact moment when the fetus goes from no-heartbeat to having a heartbeat? No. Or it is a continuum that can't be broken down so easily? Yes. As the fetus develops, it's tough to draw a line to say "these are some cells turning into a heart" to "this is now a heart."

And how exactly do we determine whether the heartbeat is present? It is going to be different for each pregnancy and dependent on technology at our disposal. So you can't say "abortion ok until week x."

The point it, your criteria appears simple at first glance, but further thought shows it's arbitrary and difficult to assess.

So it's not going to work as a solution to this issue, IMO.

 

[LordEgg_rivals16573]

im pro life generally speaking but do have to consider that anyone who would have an abortion probably shouldn't be adding to the gene pool. so maybe I'm not. its all so confusing. glad i have a outie.

 

[GrandePdre]

A 5th video emerges.
WARNING- Graphic footage about halfway through.

 

[WettCat]

"a certain portion of the products of conception."

Otherwise known as a fetus. Or a living being.

Nice choice of words there to make it sound like a production run in a manufacturing plant.

 

[BigSexyCat]

Abortion is murder. Plan and simple. Some of the liberal hipsters on this site tow the liberal platform hook, line and sinker. If the MSNBC & CNN told them incest was now on the liberal hipster ok list they would be raping their daughters that very night all while thinking how progressive they were.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Abortion is murder. Plan and simple. Some of the liberal hipsters on this site tow the liberal platform hook, line and sinker. If the MSNBC & CNN told them incest was now on the liberal hipster ok list they would be raping their daughters that very night all while thinking how progressive they were.

Solid contribution, champ. Not sure how "incest was now . . . ok" = "raping their daughters," but the rest is so obviously ironclad and unassailable that we can all overlook that bit of buffoonery. 8/10, would read again.