Players Not Collins Lost That One
- Thread starter catfans5
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1. Collins chose these players and developed them.
2. When the same mistakes happen over and over again without improvement, that is on the coach.
2. When the same mistakes happen over and over again without improvement, that is on the coach.
Coaches and teachers and bosses can only get their people to do so much - it’s up to the people.
We almost won to beat MSU and UM away in the same season for the first time in 60 years! And we’re going to tish all over this team?
We finally get a bunch of FTs in a game ... and miss 10.
Michigan goes 8-12 on 3s.
To me one of the biggest sequences was after we called a TO with 6 on the shot clock when we were up 5. Nance gets into the paint for a 10-footer he should make just about every time and leaves it short, then UM comes down and runs a perfect set for an open 3 to get within 2. Then Nance dribbles it off his leg, they come down and get a dunk to tie it.
Michigan goes 8-12 on 3s.
To me one of the biggest sequences was after we called a TO with 6 on the shot clock when we were up 5. Nance gets into the paint for a 10-footer he should make just about every time and leaves it short, then UM comes down and runs a perfect set for an open 3 to get within 2. Then Nance dribbles it off his leg, they come down and get a dunk to tie it.
13th place… 14th place…. What’s the difference? I agree that a new coach is unlikely to be successful but the status quo is certainly not successful.
It’s terribly frustrating, for sure. But never in my 38 years watching having we been this competitive night in and night out. There is something better than ever before here, albeit still not where we’d like it to be. The question is what gets us more. I don’t think it’s blowing up the program with a new coach when we’re making progress.
13th place… 14th place…. What’s the difference? I agree that a new coach is unlikely to be successful but the status quo is certainly not successful.
And that’s really the shame of it. They’re in all of these games but they just don’t have the winners mentality and the mental toughness to win them. That’s one thing I always admired about Porter Moser’s Loyola teams. Tough as nails down the stretch. Unflappable. Collins teams have none of that.
And that’s really the shame of it. They’re in all of these games but they just don’t have the winners mentality and the mental toughness to win them. That’s one thing I always admired about Porter Moser’s Loyola teams. Tough as nails down the stretch. Unflappable. Collins teams have none of that.
The worst manager I ever had, a real toad, once said "if our teams do not meet their goals it is because we have failed them". I've never forgotten it.
He looked like the Angry Elf and was only about 5'4" with the same arrogant attitude. But he was right. The manager gets the roses when they succeed and get the pricks when they fail
I guess I don’t see progress. I see a program with experienced players who have played a lot of games in their careers and are still a 13th place team. I just don’t see how things get better under this coach.
Progress? Carmody had us consistently in the NIT by the time he was fired. Collins has had one miraculous year and nothing else. That’s not progress
But these players who are approaching graduation haven't won yet. Lots of this core group have been together 2.5 years now. Nance, Buie, Beran, and Young are seasoned veterans who have played together for years in a ton of close games. They still aren't winning. They really should be and tonight, they should have won. It's not as much that Michigan hit those shots down the stretch as it was that again, as has so often been the case, we went into a massive FG drought in crunch time. After we took that 7 pt lead with 5 minutes left, we only hit one more FG the rest of the way, and that was a desperation 3 by Buie, not something run off a good offensive set.
Obviously the choked missed FT's by Nance were devastating but more egregious was the fact that going to the line was basically our only offense the last 5 minutes of that game.
Obviously the choked missed FT's by Nance were devastating but more egregious was the fact that going to the line was basically our only offense the last 5 minutes of that game.
You disagree that going from consistently NIT to bottom of the barrel is not an indication of progress? Nobody said NIT was the end goal.
I admire your passion, but you have to be realistic. CC just ain’t getting it done. Time for a change. This does not contradict anything in my original post.
You watch the games from home. I go to the games. Have been for the last 16 years. Please explain to me why I should spend four hours of travel to the game, attendance at the game, and travel home. I will be at the Illini game, but if they lose, 2-8 in conference. No NIT, no NCAA, and no hope.
Player development as a reason? Nope. The only dramatic development over the last 3 years is Young. Otherwise, not much.
Just remember this: I am a paying season ticket holder. There are not many of us. CC is losing us. Blowing it up gives hope and would be interesting to watch. I would pay for a couple of more years for that. Couple more years of Chris? Nope. I can stay home and switch to the Hallmark Channel.
I measure you based on your demeaning comments - and you continue to make progress!
No. I disagree with using the NIT as a measuring stick of anything close to a good program - especially after firing the unwarranted, cheap moral victory shot.
Nobody said the NIT was a measuring stick of a good program. But it is some sort of standard, even if low. A standard we used to be able to meet under Carmody but now can’t. That is the opposite of progress. Understood?
Now back to the yogurt shop with you.
The NIT selection criteria has changed since the NU Carmody era. Regular season conference champs get an automatic invite, which reduces the number of at-large invites.
I wasn't bringing this up to get into it with you. Calm down.
But if you are going to use it as a measuring stick you need to make sure the stick is consistent.
I'm not the one who used it as a comparison point.
Big attitude. Low standards. Understood.
Makes sense to draw that difference if it would make a difference. In this case it doesn’t. Use whatever stick you want - conference record, conference position. Collins falls short in them all.
Back to the OP ... I'm understanding the blame game less and less.
Let's call it five "winnable games" that have been blown. If they had won two or three of those games, there might be a discussion.
Anything close to a decent team bails out some bad coaching.
And I'd like anyone to introduce me to a 2-7 team with a coach that's doing a hell of a job. Especially one that loses in as many ways as this one does ... and has done it over a number of years.
This level of bad is an all-around thing. If you want to think this team has the talent to win four of those five games to get aaaaaaaaall the way to .500 with a replacement level coach ...
... If you want to think the players are only four plays away from four more wins while performing pretty badly in so many areas on both sides of the ball, good luck with that.
Let's call it five "winnable games" that have been blown. If they had won two or three of those games, there might be a discussion.
Anything close to a decent team bails out some bad coaching.
And I'd like anyone to introduce me to a 2-7 team with a coach that's doing a hell of a job. Especially one that loses in as many ways as this one does ... and has done it over a number of years.
This level of bad is an all-around thing. If you want to think this team has the talent to win four of those five games to get aaaaaaaaall the way to .500 with a replacement level coach ...
... If you want to think the players are only four plays away from four more wins while performing pretty badly in so many areas on both sides of the ball, good luck with that.
I can understand your frustration and I’m really frustrated as well, without the time and $ commitment. It’s quite a character builder to lose for all of our living years. I see us losing recently again but still see (and have measured) progress. I also thought (now doubt more) that we had some recruiting momentum. I would guess it’s ultimately all about the big donors in the administration’s ear as to what they want to do.
I disagree that Collins didn't lose this game. Sure, he didn't miss the free throws down the stretch, but he consistently sets this team behind with poor lineup construction. After the first half, it was clear that more size was needed yet Collins ran back the starting lineup to start the second half and immediately gave up a 14-4 run, points that would've came in handy down the stretch. Getting Ryan Young in sooner to draw key fouls/disqualify Dickinson and Diabate sooner would've made all the difference, but yet again he ran out the wrong combinations. That's what cost us the game
Hell, I'd beg to see them win two games in a row after January 1 against P6 .500 teams. I'm not going to use it as any type of measurement.