Playing Devil's advocate here (for all you that love Mullen)

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
Mullen has not won a single game as a head coach anywhere (much like Croom). He also has started off pretty much the same way one Sylvester Croom did, by staying with his previous team until after their season was over. We have heard just how great he is going to be in recruiting, but most of this class was put together by Croom. During his press conference Croom let us know just how great he was going to be at recruiting too. Also, we all know how hard headed Sly Croom was about his offense. He wouldn't change it, regardless of whether or not he has hte personnel to run it. That sounds a little like Mullen to me because frankly, we are going to be running 4 and 5 wide receivers and have our QB in the shotgun every play. We don't have 4 or 5 wide receivers that are SEC quality and we sure as hell don't have an SEC quarterback. Tyler Russell may be one, but I've learned not to count on a freshman too much. It's just the offense that Mullen has run throughout his career. Oh yeah - Russell originally committed to Croom.

That being said - I went to the Spring game and after about 3 plays looked at my wife and said "We're getting season tickets." I only went to one game when Croom was coach here - the game we lost to Tulane. I was probably Croom's biggest critic and am a supporter of Mullen, but before everyone goes falling in love with the guy - look at the similarities. Mullen has certainly started off the same way Croom did.
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
Mullen has not won a single game as a head coach anywhere (much like Croom). He also has started off pretty much the same way one Sylvester Croom did, by staying with his previous team until after their season was over. We have heard just how great he is going to be in recruiting, but most of this class was put together by Croom. During his press conference Croom let us know just how great he was going to be at recruiting too. Also, we all know how hard headed Sly Croom was about his offense. He wouldn't change it, regardless of whether or not he has hte personnel to run it. That sounds a little like Mullen to me because frankly, we are going to be running 4 and 5 wide receivers and have our QB in the shotgun every play. We don't have 4 or 5 wide receivers that are SEC quality and we sure as hell don't have an SEC quarterback. Tyler Russell may be one, but I've learned not to count on a freshman too much. It's just the offense that Mullen has run throughout his career. Oh yeah - Russell originally committed to Croom.

That being said - I went to the Spring game and after about 3 plays looked at my wife and said "We're getting season tickets." I only went to one game when Croom was coach here - the game we lost to Tulane. I was probably Croom's biggest critic and am a supporter of Mullen, but before everyone goes falling in love with the guy - look at the similarities. Mullen has certainly started off the same way Croom did.
 
Nov 17, 2008
1,519
0
0
Good points. The big difference is that Mullen is coaching like a college coach, not an NFL coach. College offense and college-style practices that fit college players. Croom tried to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
 

davatron

Redshirt
May 28, 2007
892
0
0
1MSUDawgFan said:
Mullen has not won a single game as a head coach anywhere (much like Croom). He also has started off pretty much the same way one Sylvester Croom did, by staying with his previous team until after their season was over. We have heard just how great he is going to be in recruiting, but most of this class was put together by Croom. During his press conference Croom let us know just how great he was going to be at recruiting too. Also, we all know how hard headed Sly Croom was about his offense. He wouldn't change it, regardless of whether or not he has hte personnel to run it. That sounds a little like Mullen to me because frankly, we are going to be running 4 and 5 wide receivers and have our QB in the shotgun every play. We don't have 4 or 5 wide receivers that are SEC quality and we sure as hell don't have an SEC quarterback. Tyler Russell may be one, but I've learned not to count on a freshman too much. It's just the offense that Mullen has run throughout his career. Oh yeah - Russell originally committed to Croom.

That being said - I went to the Spring game and after about 3 plays looked at my wife and said "We're getting season tickets." I only went to one game when Croom was coach here - the game we lost to Tulane. I was probably Croom's biggest critic and am a supporter of Mullen, but before everyone goes falling in love with the guy - look at the similarities. Mullen has certainly started off the same way Croom did.

Agree, but we couldn't pull of a West Coast offense with this group either. The formations Mullen uses will make us more competitive than anything Croom would have used.
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
is to use a ball control offense. If we can get the guys in that can run the spread, then great. But as of now, I would just say don't turn the ball over and play ball control. Croom's problem is he tried to make a simple offense difficult and it wouldn't work. We don't have the speed to run Mullen's offense effectively. If we are to get that speed, Mullen better be recruiting some great wide receivers and some good linemen.
 

TBonewannabe

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
1,262
0
0
It isn't like the 4th option on a passing play will get the ball, more than likely they are there to block or drag defenders. From the spring game, I actually thought we have more servicable receivers than I had expected. Wilder looked good, as well as Delmon, Terrence Davis, and of course Leon Berry. Getting McRae back and the freshmen coming in, we should be ok at WR.
 

OEMDawg

Redshirt
Mar 22, 2008
1,383
0
0
Mullen has been a college coach for his career, not 20 years ago. And best of all, he doesn't worship the Barrrrrrrr. F Crooms. A dead body can recruit better than he did.
 

karlchilders.sixpack

All-Conference
Jun 5, 2008
19,574
3,692
113
I would dare to guess that we may have not scored 45 points in 5 Croom coached Spring games....It'll be close.
AND he did what he did, with existing players.

There's a new sheriff in town, and he's got bullets in his gun, give him a chance. I think you will see the coaching flexibility, that Croom could not deliver... Won't see, We run what we run and that's all...attitude.

Buy the tickets!
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
OEMDawg said:
Mullen has been a college coach for his career, not 20 years ago. And best of all, he doesn't worship the Barrrrrrrr. F Crooms. A dead body can recruit better than he did.

that there aren't differences. But, there are similarities too, and I just think everybody is going a little overboard about how great he is. The truth is at this point, we don't know. I'm optimistic, but not nearly as optimistic as some are. Those same people who criticize Croom applaud Mullen on the same thing. But you are right - 17 Crooms. He was Nick Saban's best recruiter. He constantly talked about how great Alabama is and quite frankly, they really weren't that good for some of that time.
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
karlchilders said:
There's a new sheriff in town, and he's got bullets in his gun, give him a chance. I think you will see the coaching flexibility, that Croom could not deliver... Won't see, We run what we run and that's all...attitude.

Buy the tickets!
I am giving him a chance and I did buy tickets. Like I said, I am optimistic. But maybe our defense has just gotten worse. We did just graduate some of the best players on our defense - Pegues, Fitzhugh, etc.
 

norman.sixpack

Redshirt
Jun 5, 2007
121
0
0
I bet you any amount of cash that he never allows a recruiting class to go by without one stinking qb in it?? Croom had one of the biggest advantages in recruiting that any state coach could ever hope to have, and it turned out to not be worth a sh*t. I think alot of the exitement for mullen is from two things---croom gone, and all the winable games we found ways to lose (UK, La Tech, Maine, Houston, Tulane........) that any half *** coach could have pulled out.
 

PBRME

All-Conference
Feb 12, 2004
10,752
4,313
113
1MSUDawgFan said:
He also has started off pretty much the same way one Sylvester Croom did, by staying with his previous team until after their season was over.
One BIG difference here. Croom came here to sign the contract and didn't come back until after Green Bay lost in the playoffs. Mullen spent more time at MSU recruiting and working on his staff until the quiet period then went back to FL to prepare for the national championship. Even during the quiet period he was flying back and forth to get his staff ready.
 

SLUdog

Redshirt
May 28, 2007
2,149
9
38
(hopefully more than that) in 5 years of coaching than Croom did. If he doesn't we'll get another football coach.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
I think you raise some good points. The truth is Mullen might be the next Urban Meyer, and he might be the next Ron Cooper. In all likelihood, he will be somewhere in the middle. Or hopefully closer to Meyer.

I do think Croom could have worked out. But it didn't- and that's part of it. Most of the reasons he failed were self-inflicted.

First of all, he should have known better than to hire his friends. If you do hire your friends, put them in a job similar to what Felker is doing for us now. The fact of the matter is coordinators change teams like shoes. And if your team is struggling, the coordinators are usually the first scapegoats. Don't make things potentially awkward for yourself by hiring friends. I don't think Mullen has done this. I like what he has done with his staff- hire some guys that are really good coaches and some that are really good recruiters.

As far as the WCO, I don't think Croom himself really understood the offense. He tried to make a pass to set-up the run offense a power running offense. That's not what it was intended to be. I am one of the few (You can rail me later) that do believe that the WCO can work in college. BUT you do have to simplify it so that a college team can effectively run it. Giving a college team an NFL playbook would be the equivalent of giving a HS team a college playbook. You have got to match your scheme to the level and ability of the players- even if that's the Yale Wedge. And like anything else, in the WCO, you need players with talent. I'm sure some people may be thinking, yeah the WCO looks good with Montana and Rice, but the fact of the matter is ANY offense we ran would have struggled with the collection of talent we had assembled under Croom. I bet Henig would have thrown 30+ INT's if he were in Hawaii's offense and had been able to somehow stay healthy. But it wasn't just QB- Croom totally neglected the o-line, WR's, and TE's. All of those are key to the WCO.

Mullen will be nothing like Croom. He is a spread guy, and there is no question that he knows how that offense is supposed to work, and what kind of perssonnel you need to run it. And he has made that a priority in his recruiting. We may very well struggle on offense some because maybe we're lacking in a couple of areas, or are going to have to play Fr., but I have no doubt in my mind that Mullen is going to have the offense progressing well within five years. I can deal with a guy putting in a new scheme and giving him a year or two to build his perssonnel, even if it doens't quite fit the talent.

I actually think Croom did a pretty good job with defense. He let Ellis Johnson or Cheese run the unit and pretty much left it alone. Too bad he didn't do that for the offense.

Croom also sorely neglected special teams. That is one area we really can not afford to be bad in. ST's can change the momentum of a game in an instant. I could almost (key word here being almost) overlook the offense being bad if we were good on ST's. During the Croom era, we had the worst kicker and punter in the SEC, and looked completely disorganized for four out of Croom's five years. The one year we didn't was the year we went to the Liberty Bowl. I don't think that's a coincidnece. I don't know how we will be on ST's under Mullen, but I am at least encouraged that he has brought in better specialists at the very least.

At first, Croom had no clue how to recruit, and he gave out too many scholarships as favors to friends. Croom did improve in this area. I will give him that. I'm not worried about Mullen in recruiting. He closed this last class strong, and the only two guys that we lost were Garrett and Patterson. And we may have lost them anyway. We're running an offense that a lot of the HS kids seem to like, and hopefully we can continue to get good defensive players- if we're known for anything, it's good defense, so I feel OK.

Finally, I think Mullen has blown Croom away in alumni relations. That is huge, because those are the people that pay lot of money, and spend time to go to Starkville to watch your product. And you represent them. I'm including the students as alumni, because they are future alumni. You plant that seed when they are in school. The students also are your most vocal group at the games and help get everyone else going. I like how Mullen is encouraging bringing cowbells, actually have a real spring game, choosing helmets that are more appealing to the fans, and I doubt that he is going to tell me that I am blind.
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
Todd4State said:
First of all, he should have known better than to hire his friends. If you do hire your friends, put them in a job similar to what Felker is doing for us now. The fact of the matter is coordinators change teams like shoes. And if your team is struggling, the coordinators are usually the first scapegoats. Don't make things potentially awkward for yourself by hiring friends. I don't think Mullen has done this. I like what he has done with his staff- hire some guys that are really good coaches and some that are really good recruiters.
I don't have a premium subscription to this website, but read the article headline on the main article. It seems to indicate that you are wrong on this and Mullen has in fact hired some friends. Now, I don't buy what the Swan has to say and take it with a grain of salt, but it does make you wonder.

http://mississippistate.scout.com/
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
and I could very well be, I will say that Mullen has made the same mistake.

That said, at least from the looks of that article, at least he made that guy the TE's coach, and not the OC. Which to me is a huge difference.
 

1MSUDawgFan

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
183
0
0
including the OC and DC? I really don't know. All I am saying is that there are similarities that Croom got blasted for that Mullen seems to be getting a free pass on.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
55,898
24,868
113
Where Crxxm 17ed up was in hiring a friend for a job he wasn't qualified for. McCorvey had never coached QBs in his life, had no experience with the offense Crxxm wanted to run, and got fired after 1 year from the only OC job he ever had. I was about as big of a Crxxm sheep as there was back when we first hired him, but my first "Uh, Oh!" moment was the day he hired McCorvey.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
55,898
24,868
113
Mullen has been a very successful OC at the top levels of college football, Crxxm hadn't even been in the college game in well over a decade. Mullen's career path is the typical career path that most all successful college coaches have followed. Crxxm was a pro position coach. Mullen will run an offense that has been proven to work at the college level. Crxxm ran a bastardized version of an offense that worked in the pros in its original version that has never really worked at all in college football.
 

dawgatUSM

Redshirt
Apr 6, 2008
3,835
27
48
Mullen put the QB under center probably about 15-20 percent of the time in the spring game. I think he understands that our current personnel is going to call for that occasionally
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
1MSUDawgFan said:
including the OC and DC? I really don't know. All I am saying is that there are similarities that Croom got blasted for that Mullen seems to be getting a
free pass on.

and I won't give him a free pass if they suck and he won't get rid of them. And I'm not. I already said that if he did, it was a mistake.

And if you do hire your friends, you better make darn sure that they are qualified and you better make sure that you let them know up front that if things go bad, that you may have to let them go. You don't make promises to never fire your assistants no matter what.
 

dawgwhisperer

Redshirt
May 26, 2008
53
0
0
croom came in and ran several good players out the door. some left on their own and some people say they couldn't handle crooms practices, personally i think some of them could see from the get go croom was going to be a sinking ship so why put your self through what he wanted them to do just to lose? i haven't heard of any of our players from last year jumping ship yet while at the same time i have read where several of the players are saying that mullens practices or more intense than crooms was.

bottom line is croom sucked, any moron could see that. mullen may turn out to be just as bad only time will tell, but i'd be more than willing to bet anyone our offense will rank in the top 100 which is something croom never even sniffed.
 

OEMDawg

Redshirt
Mar 22, 2008
1,383
0
0
If anybody thinks that Mullen can win more than 5 games next season, then they have a Kool-Aid IV. The ONLY way it could happen is Tyler Russell comes on campus and plays better than a QB has EVER played at MSU. The only way I come away disappointed next year is if we were to somehow go 0-11, 1-12, or the offense can't move the ball on anyone.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Mullen did have that small issue with Delmon Robinson and a couple of other WR's, but he seems to have smoothed things over. Probably to the benefit of both.

At first I was OK with Croom running people off, but when it started to get to what seemed like 30 guys, I was like uhhh.....are we going to be able to field a team? The problem with Sherrill's teams were discipline on the field in terms of penalties. All Croom had to do was get them to commit fewer penalties, and then everything would have been fine as far as discipline.
 

ArrowDawg

Redshirt
Oct 10, 2006
2,041
0
0
............about whether or not Mullen will get the job done. All the talent in this state would flock to OM and there's not a coach we could hire who would change that.

I'm starting to feel a little like Arlen Specter right now. Can't beat 'em, join 'em. OM is pwning our asses in almost all sports, so what the hell..........right? It's a losing cause.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
0
0
1MSUDawgFan wrote: Also, we all know how hard headed Sly Croom was about his offense. He wouldn't change it, regardless of whether or not he has hte personnel to run it. That sounds a little like Mullen to me because frankly, we are going to be running 4 and 5 wide receivers and have our QB in the shotgun every play.
Are you living in a closet?

Sounds like Mullen? Really? I have heard just the opposite from Mullen. Mullen has said that He will run whatever Our personell fits. How is that even close to Croom's run straight at you even if We only get a yard offense.

You Sir are a Jackass.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
0
0
1MSUDawgFan said:
. Also, we all know how hard headed Sly Croom was about his offense. He wouldn't change it, regardless of whether or not he has hte personnel to run it. That sounds a little like Mullen to me because frankly, we are going to be running 4 and 5 wide receivers and have our QB in the shotgun every play.
Here's a quote from Mullen for you.......

" We will blend the spread in stages as We have the personnel ready to add more. They were more of a power I team When I got here, so We have a lot of TEs and Fullbacks and not a lot of recievers , so it will be a little process adjusting. How fast We can integrate Our offense depends on how fast the players adjust and perform."

How in the blue Hell does that sound anything like Croom blowing about how We are going to run "straight at " LSU even if We only get 1 yard.

G-zus, joe zuff and Mayree........Do some of you post **** here just to try to draw some attention to yourself? You are WAY behind. You are like the 19th guy in your class to get a tattoo so you can be "different".

Mullen sounds about as much like Croom as Polk's uninspired *** sounded like Bobby Knight.

GD......just GD.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
and the LSU quote Crooms made says it all when you look at those two. Night and Day. There is no comparision of these two coaches. None</p>
 

wbc40

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2008
848
0
15
Compare Croom's background to Mullen's. Not saying he will do better, but at this point, your post is FAIL.
 

Bulldog Backer

Redshirt
Jul 22, 2007
865
0
0
patdog said:
Where Crxxm 17ed up was in hiring a friend for a job he wasn't qualified for. McCorvey had never coached QBs in his life, had no experience with the offense Crxxm wanted to run, and got fired after 1 year from the only OC job he ever had. I was about as big of a Crxxm sheep as there was back when we first hired him, but my first "Uh, Oh!" moment was the day he hired McCorvey.
...you are right on target there.
 

vandaldawg

Junior
Feb 23, 2008
2,134
308
83
The only measure of the quality of coach Mullen will or will not be is when the L's start mounting up - and they will - and the team's belief and spirit start waivering - and they will - how does Mullen handle it. We shall see.
 
Mar 3, 2008
64
0
0
People are thinking that becaues we run the "spread" we're going to line up and throw it every down. We did in the spring game because we had Dixon, who we can't afford to get hurt, and after that, Sylvester Hemphill. Mullen and Meyer have been "spread option" coaches everywhere they've been. As have Hudspeth and Koenning (sp). We've got 2 220+ lb. running backs and we're going to spread the field and they're going to pound it in the lanes. Spreading the defense thins defenses out up the middle theoretically and we're still going to run right at them.

See Florida, Utah, Bowling Green, Northwestern, Wake Forest, Oregon, etc.
 

Agentdog

Redshirt
Aug 16, 2006
1,433
0
0
Mullen has been coaching with one of the more successful college coaches today for the last 8 seasons. He has been around the recruiting, practices, game planning, etc. So, you would think he knows what it takes to run a successful college football program. Although, Croom had more overall experience in coaching the game in general. I think Mullen has more practical knowledge at this point to be a college head coach than Croom did.

In response to the thread in general, I still think Mullen is going to struggle. I think we look better. We will be much effective on offense and hopefully the kicking game(s) will improve. However, Croom did not leave Mullen much in the way of talent. It will be a tough go for Mullen and us for a few years. So, Eric.....you can go to Oxford for a few years. We won't tell anybody on the BOMB.
 

MagnoliaHunter

All-Conference
Jan 23, 2007
1,425
1,122
113
they both have 2 arms, 2 legs, and a head. Unlike Croom, Mullen actually has something in his head.