Playoff ranking system
- Thread starter FarWestNorthCarolinaSports
- Start date
Y'all crybabies are getting exactly what you asked for. All we heard was "The MaxPreps ranking has to go!" "No one knows their formula!". Well, here is the NCHSAA's solution: Their own formula spelled out for you. You should've known that they would f*ck it up. Those turkey legs in Raleigh don't have time to analyze every single team in every single sport to create a eye-based ranking system. They have to have something simple and mathematical that they can do themselves, or farm it out to an outside source. Which they already tried, and you cried about it.
In the eye-test rankings, yes, and rightfully so. But in the RPI, Mitchell looks like a very average team. .600 win percentage... Mountain Heritage at #2 is fairly comical. They were down at the half to both Erwin, and Swain (neither very good), and got swamped and home by Pisgah, who hasn't played anyone with a pulse.
To get a bump or to rise your RPI isn't beating a higher ranking team except for maybe that team might have a good winning percentage.
If your team wins a game it of course helps your winning percentage which is 30% of your RPI
the team you beat winning percentage is 40% of your RPI and 30% is the average winning percentage of the teams they played so beating a team who is 3-1 (75%) who opponents average is 67% is going to help more then beating a team who is 2-1 (67%) who's opponents average is 50%.
Correct. Once teams start playing more games, the rankings will start to play out a little more as expected. I would say closer to week 8 is when you will start to see a more "correct" list of rankings.
The NCHSAA could let you pick your rankings and I think majority of you would still complain it was wrong.
We've had imperfect systems for years. There will always be flaws. Complaining over it doesn't do anything.
So if there is 64 teams that play football you could have 8 1a conferences 4 for the West and 4 the East 8 teams total for each conference.Top 4 in each conference makes the playoff. 16 for the West and 16 for the East that’s 32 teams total. Every team would know what they got to do to make the playoffs and you still can schedule 2 out of conference games. No need for computer ratings or split conferences.
Based on NCHSAA there are actually 66 (not that it makes that big of a difference) so we'll go with the perfect number of 64 and your breakdown. So now we have the 32 teams that have made the playoffs, how do we seed them? Assuming you put all conference finishers 1st, how do you seed 1-4 for each, east and west?
Also, what about the travel time and travel cost for those conferences?
It makes sense, but then folks would still get mad about the conferences not having their rivals, or that there was too much travel, or about good teams in strong conferences getting left out of the playoffs. No system is perfect.
Conference champions could play the 4 place teams and the 2nd place teams play the 3rd place teams to start out the bracket.
Yes some conferences might be loaded one year but it is what it is. Finish in the top 4.At least it’s not a computer formula and split conferences. No way Shelby should be playing 1a schools for conference games.When my son played in TN he had a conference game 3 hrs away.
EDIT: Are you saying that each conference would play itself again? That's not going to go over well with a lot of people either.
That still doesn't answer the question of what 1st place team plays what 4th place team.
Lets say Mount Airy, Mitchell, Robbinsville, & Thomasville all finish 1st in their conference. Now Elkin, Avery, Andrews, & South Davidson all finish 4th. Who plays who?
At the end of the day teams have to be able to be ranked somehow in order to know who they are going to play.
If you did things that way, this year I think you'd have a conference that was Murphy, Mitchell, Mountain Heritage, Swain, Robbinsville, Andrews, Cherokee, Hayesville, Avery.
And then you'd have a league that would look something like Draughn, Rosman, TJ, MIC, Cherryville, Bess City, Christ The King, Highland Tech.
So then Rosman fans would be mad they aren't in with the mountains, but you can't put them there without splitting up M.H., Mitchell, and Avery and sending one of them to the Northwest. Then you've got them complaining about losing rivalries and travel. Plus you've got a mountain conference where two teams on the Swain/Mitchell/Mountain Heritage/Murphy/Robbinsville/Andrews level are going to miss the playoffs, while Cherryville gets in from the other conference.
I agree that it is what it is. I'm just saying people are going to complain no matter what.
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Make one conference have to play one conference and rotate every year. Conference A plays conference B. Conference C play’s conference D. The next year B and C play and A and D. The next year A and C play and B and D play. Do that West and East. Home field could rotate between the conferences. In a perfect bracket you would have 8 conference champions in the final 8. 4 from the West and 4 from the East. At least you know what you have to do as a team every year.
You could find a way to divide teams up not to make a super conference. Mileage wise there isn’t much difference between Draughn,Cherryville or TJ to Murphy as Mitchell, Mountain Heritage and Avery. You could keep Rosman in the SMC. Yes people would still complain.
Right there are 66 1A schools , 32 in 10 conferences in the East and 34 in 11 conferences in the West. plus 2 independent schools in each who don't play football.
Thing is this conversation has been how it relates to the playoffs but first you'd have to figure out how to reduce 10 and 11 conferences to 8 which logistically won't work to many schools are located to were they couldn't combine with another conference because of their location, it's why we have split conferences.
If I'm not mistaken, I think they used to do pre-determined brackets based on conference. Not exactly like you are stating but all first place finishers were seeded first but the overall #1 would go to Conference A this year and then the next year Conference B would be the #1 seed.
NCHSAA seem to change it every year though so I could be wrong.
They used to do that in basketball and baseball for sure. And people complained about which conference got grouped with which other conference, etc.
1A West is loaded with E Randolph, Thomasville, Mt Airy, Mitchell, Heritage and a few SMC schools. Looking forward to seeing this weeks rankings.
I am too, they don't make a lot of sense. x3 x4 x3. How do they justify this calculation ? Makes less sense than MaxPrep's ADM I have seen teams that played teams that would have fallen below 500 in almost every conference go on to win the state championship. 2008 Mount Airy, Tarboro a few years and I am sure some on here can name other teams. Will they ever get a far solution ? NO ! ! ! Getting some of the private, magnet, and charter schools playing each other was one step in the right direction.
Everything is going to work itself out !!
Conference play begins and count in injuries and Covid and who knows who will be ranked where. For sure things are going to be shook up and as usual the traditional powerhouses will rise to the top. I’m just glad these young men are getting to play
Conference play begins and count in injuries and Covid and who knows who will be ranked where. For sure things are going to be shook up and as usual the traditional powerhouses will rise to the top. I’m just glad these young men are getting to play
I assume you meant .3 .4 .3....some states use 45% 45% 10% and some use 25%, 50% ,25%.
but the idea is to account for strength of schedule your RPI is your win-lost record which counts for 30% then your opponents win-lost record counts for 40% your opponents - opponents records count for 30%.
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To be honest I don't have a big issue with the playoff formula. The two things the new re-alignment year I have a lot more issues with. First I believe with the school size differences especially in 1A they should have ether left the playoffs A & AA championships or if your gonna have one championship per classification they should have added 5A.
Second I believe classification should be just your ADM as always ( now 50%) , I still haven't figured out what a schools 3 year Wells Fargo State Cup average (25%) or the number of kids on government assistance (25%) has to do with a schools classification. Some examples I noticed of schools ADM that just seems odd .... ADM 614 - 1A(2A last year).... 614 -2A (1A last year).....630 -1A (2A last year)..... 588 - 2A ( 1A last year ) .....
671 -1A (2A last year)
Second I believe classification should be just your ADM as always ( now 50%) , I still haven't figured out what a schools 3 year Wells Fargo State Cup average (25%) or the number of kids on government assistance (25%) has to do with a schools classification. Some examples I noticed of schools ADM that just seems odd .... ADM 614 - 1A(2A last year).... 614 -2A (1A last year).....630 -1A (2A last year)..... 588 - 2A ( 1A last year ) .....
671 -1A (2A last year)
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I have always said 6 classifications without the A & AA, which puts it closer to the A & AA and use the ADMs. Works for other states so why not here ? Also keep the private, magnet, and charter together in their own world.
I am completely and total in agreement that private and/or charter schools should be in their own world. The ability to "recruit" makes Average Daily Attendance meaningless. If you think there is an affect in football, just look at basketball. Out of the past 10 years in 1A, how many "regular" schools won the Men's State Basketball Championship? Statesville for many years just said NO to playing any private school. Without them having to adhere to the same rules, if I were the AD I would just say NO.
Yeah... there is no way that is happening. 8 rounds of football???lol. Its going to be 32 teams with 4 rounds of football at most. Otherwise they might as well go ahead and give everybody a trophy.
64 teams is not 8 rounds of football unless I mistaken..many teams will also get byes I imagine
Oh my bad then. Roger that. But wow...Absolutely ridiculous allowing that many teams in the playoffs. The old days were better.
I assume everyone in the East will play and 1 team will have a bye because they only have 31 teams listed on the nchsaa rpi rankings. MaxPreps has 3 more teams on their East Mattamuskeet but I believe they dropped to 8 man in 2020, Wilson prep for some reason they have in the East but nchsaa has them in the West and Union Academy which Simmons rankings has listed as well and according to scorestream they've had games but they not listed on the nchsaa rankings.
And the West has 34 so I guess 2 won't play.
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I personally liked the format that was used back in the spring season. It was a simple format 1st round 2nd round regionals then states. I'd rather keep that format than whatever format this season is gonna be.