Point the thumb...

[horshack.sixpack]

Just observational. If the last two coaches both thought that at least some segments of the fanbase were not in touch with reality, could there be some truth to it. I mean I want the best for MSU as quickly as possible, but I don't really see this year as being one that can be analyzed by any normal first year analysis process.

That being said, Moorhead's "kick rocks" press conference and Leach's last press conference both express frustration with what they perceive as unrealistic expectations from a fan base as they try to build a program their way. I'm not saying that they are correct, just that it's two different sources with similar sentiment.

I know if you're on your 5th divorce, it might be you.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I'll probably lay off of Leach until next year. This year - I get it. COVID, no practice, **** happens. We are still worse than we should be, and he certainly made this a bigger rebuilding project than it should have been. And honestly, the real dumbass is Cohen.

But at this point, I'm giving the guy next year. He better show some real damn improvement. We have a lot of good young players. They ought to be able to grasp simple offensive concepts by next season. I'm not into that "he needs 3-4 years" ********. Next year, period.

I have no idea what's motivating him, if he's cashing a retirement check, etc. But I figure it'll all be on display next season. He really needs to do some fanbase motivating as well during the offseason, and pull a great recruiting class.

 

[johnson86-1]

Expectations for Moorhead were pretty reasonable.

Expectations for leach may not be unreasonable in general, but were probably out of line with past experiences at Texas tech and WSU.

Leach has to clean up a bad culture and we are in shape and playing well on defense. I’m surprised at how bad the offense looks and am worried at this point, but there’s no point in melting down.

If we suck next year and leach is not making adjustments that other air raid based offenses have made, ill melt down.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Just observational. If the last two coaches both thought that at least some segments of the fanbase were not in touch with reality, could there be some truth to it.

Absolutely. Have you read the message boards?

 

[PartTimeGenius]

I have zero issues with Leach's press conference comments. He's right. Some folks just don't want the truth.

I've been disappointed with our offense this year, but I'm not looking for any bridges to jump off of.

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

I only read political message boards like SPS and 247, wouldn't know what's going on with Mississippi State message boards.**

 

[ronpolk]

Leach probably has a valid reason to be frustrated with criticism. The people who are mad at leach are really mad at Cohen. They may just not realize it yet.

Joe on the other hand... he made his fatal mistake engaging with the fans the way he did. He inherited a team that had a good culture, good talent and was ready to win big and he laid a turd.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Cohen is the issue. Leach and Mohead can’t help it that Cohen hired them.

 

[johnson86-1]

I have zero issues with Leach's press conference comments. He's right. Some folks just don't want the truth.

I've been disappointed with our offense this year, but I'm not looking for any bridges to jump off of.

His comments about finding another team were out of line. Everything I've seen other than that seemed perfectly reasonable and were good points.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

He doesn't know how many times most State fans have contemplated just doing that over the years.*** #tooclosetohome

 

[missouridawg]

My only issue with Leach is he seems content on losing games he can win this year in preparation for next year. I’d rather a coach try to win every game they coach and I don’t think Leach cares about Ws this year. If he did, Shrader would’ve got snaps in UK.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I can tell you that a sure way to fail as a leader is to abandon your strengths in favor of something short term, or to satisfy some kind of outcry. I don't mind him sticking to his guns on what kind of QB play he requires for his system. I will mind if we don't see improvement come along next season when he hopefully has a "normal" off season and spring.

 

[missouridawg]

I can tell you that a sure way to fail as a leader is to abandon your strengths in favor of something short term, or to satisfy some kind of outcry. I don't mind him sticking to his guns on what kind of QB play he requires for his system. I will mind if we don't see improvement come along next season when he hopefully has a "normal" off season and spring.

I understand your point, but if what we are seeing is “strengths” then we are 17ed.

Another good sign of leadership is actually being successful and usin let your current resources to achieve success. There’s only so many times you can say “trust me, it’ll work” before people stop trusting you that it will work.

 

[Kojak.sixpack]

From the Posts I’ve Read...

His comments about finding another team were out of line. Everything I've seen other than that seemed perfectly reasonable and were good points.

If people are so intent on trashing Leach and everything within the program after 6 games, why is he wrong. He has won everywhere he has been. He has had unreal, significant turnover. He is starting a true freshman qb that posters and fans are already saying will never make in the SEC after HIS FIRST START that he won.

I’m had my share of critique for certain aspects of the program over the years. But at this point with Leach it is not warranted. These folks really should go find another team. They aren’t suited to be a Mississippi State fan and honestly are causing State some harm with this mentality of everything has to work day one. At some point the negativity and hand wringing bleeds into the school and the program and on the field. I tend to agree with Leach. Go on.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Sometimes making the right changes and leading in the best direction for long term success produces exactly the opposite short term results that you want to see. I've had to lead through that kind of storm before, weather all the criticism, but eventually, get the right people on board, in the right places, and then watch as the business began to get healthy and produce the expected results. All along the way, I had naysayers telling my how the direction I was heading was not right, it wasn't how that business had run before, that wasn't how they've been successful in the past, etc. Nevermind the fact that they had had basically a few years of really doing well financially and were then on a downward trend when I came in, and they were heading downward because they kept doing what they had always been doing. Eventually the naysayers shut up, but it took a while. Culture had to change, behavior had to change, and in many cases, personnel had to change, but it worked. They could've fired me after 12 months and all the naysayers would have claimed to be right, because it took about 18 - 24 months before everything really began to line up correctly and move forward.

Because he is a proven, long-term, head coach I'm willing to give him a little time to get things heading in the right direction. Year 1 dismissal would be a breach of duty on Cohen's part. If Leach doesn't make it past 3 years and the reason for his departure is lack of success, then Cohen has to be looked at very closely because we probably don't want him picking another football coach.

 

[patdog]

Another sure way to fail is to keep doing something that clearly isn't working at all and not making any adjustments.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Cohen is certainly not above reproach; he's effed up quite a few sticky situations. But the fans narrative that he made poor coaching hires is funny to me. Every hire he's made has been interpreted at the time as a success.
Errybody was hyped when Cannizaro was landed.
I'd say 95% of everyone I talked to said Jugghead was a homerun hire at the time.
I'd say 90% were stoked about Leach. I was still mad about Jugghead burning down a once proud and competitive program in 2 short years, and got my hand slapped because this new hire was "a very big deal" and Leach is a "proven winner" and how Cohen was "awesome for such a great hire". I was 50/50 on this guy but wait for the instant replay in a year or so.

I'll give Leach points for being a hard *** and culling any spoiled quitter drama queen that Jugghead was too gutless to cull early on.

I'll take points away for an absolutely horrible offense. This offense takes time, requires certain players, and precision.

I reserved my enthusiasm about him until he can prove success in the SEC. But the gnashing of teeth against Cohen for this hire is funny to me after such euphoria in January.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You do understand the concept of short term sacrifice for long term gain? I'm blown away by the, I guess, lack of maturity, or leadership experience, or something that seems pervasive. Would you seriously tell a guy to coach in a way that is not his way for this year to hopefully build on what, exactly? A disaster that Moorhead left behind? In the hopes of what, exactly, setting yourself back yet another year from becoming what you want the team to become? Give up the limited practice time that we've had already to teach things that won't help anyone past this year? The time to adjust was Moorhead's first year, when he was pretty loaded, but that didn't happen. This is the perfect point for a re-build in culture, effort, style of play, whatever.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

This reeks of common sense and rational thought. Please take it elsewhere.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

A key difference between the two is Moorhead replaced the best coach in program history and won as many games in his two seasons as Mullen did in his last two seasons. He also went 2-0 vs. Ole Miss compared to Mullen finishing 1-3.

Leach was hired to replace a fired coach and is paid $5 million* compared to Moorhead's $3.2 million.

The standard for Moorhead was win more than Mullen. I don't see why we shouldn't expect Leach to win more than Moorhead.

As a fan, I expected to take a step back from the best coach in program history. I expect better results when we fire a coach to pay the next guy more than 50% more. But let's give Leach at least the same 16 SEC games we gave Moorhead. Maybe he can outperform Moorhead's 7-9 SEC record.

*-Congrats to Mike for negotiating $1 million more than Washington State was prepared to pay him in 2020 due to our administration waiting until after the bowl game to decide to fire a coach.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

A key difference between the two is Moorhead replaced the best coach in program history and won as many games in his two seasons as Mullen did in his last two seasons. He also went 2-0 vs. Ole Miss compared to Mullen finishing 1-3.

Leach was hired to replace a fired coach and is paid $5 million* compared to Moorhead's $3.2 million.

The standard for Moorhead was win more than Mullen. I don't see why we shouldn't expect Leach to win more than Moorhead.

As a fan, I expected to take a step back from the best coach in program history. I expect better results when we fire a coach to pay the next guy more than 50% more. But let's give Leach at least the same 16 SEC games we gave Moorhead. Maybe he can outperform Moorhead's 7-9 SEC record.

*-Congrats to Mike for negotiating $1 million more than Washington State was prepared to pay him in 2020 due to our administration waiting until after the bowl game to decide to fire a coach.

Can you imagine what Leach would have done in 2018? I bet he goes 4-8.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

After watching the game from the upper deck Saturday, I was able to see things I had not seen from Section 2 or 3. Down there, I mostly watched the ball, the guy that had it and the guy he was throwing it to.

In the upper deck, I was able to watch a whole lot more. Like I saw exactly when a Vandy adjusted the defensive front in the 2nd Qtr. And I also noticed that we were missing 2 starters on an already bad offensive line. And I noticed when we had to sub in on the oline for an injury. And I noticed that we had to move Olinemen to positions they hadn’t been playing all year. And I noticed they were not as good as the early season starters that were bad. We had 7 available Olinemen Saturday night and finished the game with 6 available Olinemen. We had 7 straight 3 and outs, with 3 starters and 2 new guys on the oline. Our Olinemen were wore slap out. 7 straight 3 and outs wore out our dline that was also short of available players. We played 2 former Walkons in the Defensive backfield due to injuries and Covid.

A bad State team with no depth is gonna struggle with a bad Vandy team, even if both teams have 30 players unavailable.

Vandy had 58 scholarship players available. We had 54 scholarship players available. We have played 19 first year players in 6 games, more than any other FBS team.

Dems da facks!!!

 

[BigDawg0074]

Bruiser’s post above should give some perspective to the Negative Nancys. If this team were playing their normal schedule we are talking about a five win team, maybe six with a little luck. They would probably lose to NC State but would absolutely beat the others. They have two conference wins and have an outside chance to win another. All things considered, three conference wins would be pretty good IMHO. I know things look bad right now but have some perspective, the best coach in our history had four seasons with three or less conference wins.

 

[HumpDawgy]

Who points which finger?

Pointer finger - Everybody, that is why it is called the pointer.
Thumb - Joe Moorhead and Little Jack Horner
Ring Finger - Nick Saban
Pinky - Tea sippers in Oxford
Middle finger - State fans

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Every fan base has fringe fans that are unreasonable. Arkansas fans couldn't wait to fire Nutt because he ran the ball to much.

I always got the impression Moorhead thought he was smarter than any of us at little ole MSU.

With Leach, I don't think the W-L expectations were that high for him. The problem for Leach. He is supposed to be some offensive genius and his offense has been absolutely horrible. Horrible! If we were putting up points and stats like OleMiss and 2-4, the heat on Leach would be minimal.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

You do understand the concept of short term sacrifice for long term gain? I'm blown away by the, I guess, lack of maturity, or leadership experience, or something that seems pervasive. Would you seriously tell a guy to coach in a way that is not his way for this year to hopefully build on what, exactly? A disaster that Moorhead left behind? In the hopes of what, exactly, setting yourself back yet another year from becoming what you want the team to become? Give up the limited practice time that we've had already to teach things that won't help anyone past this year? The time to adjust was Moorhead's first year, when he was pretty loaded, but that didn't happen. This is the perfect point for a re-build in culture, effort, style of play, whatever.

You are right and wrong.

He still owes it to the current seniors to at least TRY to win, which means running the ball a little bit. You can't just abandon a year. I guess you can halfway do it this year because they can all come back again, though many will probably just give up football at that point.

We all understand about giving him time. We lived through Croom. Don't be a condescending jerk.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

You are right and wrong.

He still owes it to the current seniors to at least TRY to win, which means running the ball a little bit. You can't just abandon a year. I guess you can halfway do it this year because they can all come back again, though many will probably just give up football at that point.

We all understand about giving him time. We lived through Croom. Don't be a condescending jerk.

Don’t be a condescending jerk?

Okay goat, AKA the biggest condescending jerk in the history of MSU message boards.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You are right and wrong.

He still owes it to the current seniors to at least TRY to win, which means running the ball a little bit. You can't just abandon a year. I guess you can halfway do it this year because they can all come back again, though many will probably just give up football at that point.

We all understand about giving him time. We lived through Croom. Don't be a condescending jerk.

Nothing condescending here. When I've had to step into similar (albeit business related) situations, I was hired to lead the team because they needed someone to lead the team. I came in, assessed where they were, cast a vision for where I wanted to get. Began working with them on how to get there and followed MY plan. I took full responsibility and was willing to be fired if it didn't work. What I wasn't willing to do was accept responsibility without the authority to make it happen. In fact, anytime I accept any new position, I ask a ton of questions about how much responsibility I'm going to have and how much authority I'm going to be given. If those are out of line, I decline.

What you are suggesting is that Mike should not do what he knows how to do in favor of something intermediate to satiate the win-now crowd, and or some dissatisfied players. In fact, he should be given all of the authority to do all that he needs to do and all of the responsibility if it doesn't work. This is not the year to determine if it isn't working. If current players want to be a part of laying that foundation, great, if not great. I completely understand, given the coaching carousel that these upper classmen have been on that it could be frustrating, even to the point of quitting. However, that is just an unfortunate fact at this point.

 

[was21]

Seems to me that to state that 90% were high on the Leach hire is a bit of a stretch...just a gut feeling...probably more of a 40-45% approval

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Nothing condescending here. When I've had to step into similar (albeit business related) situations, I was hired to lead the team because they needed someone to lead the team. I came in, assessed where they were, cast a vision for where I wanted to get. Began working with them on how to get there and followed MY plan. I took full responsibility and was willing to be fired if it didn't work. What I wasn't willing to do was accept responsibility without the authority to make it happen. In fact, anytime I accept any new position, I ask a ton of questions about how much responsibility I'm going to have and how much authority I'm going to be given. If those are out of line, I decline.

What you are suggesting is that Mike should not do what he knows how to do in favor of something intermediate to satiate the win-now crowd, and or some dissatisfied players. In fact, he should be given all of the authority to do all that he needs to do and all of the responsibility if it doesn't work. This is not the year to determine if it isn't working. If current players want to be a part of laying that foundation, great, if not great. I completely understand, given the coaching carousel that these upper classmen have been on that it could be frustrating, even to the point of quitting. However, that is just an unfortunate fact at this point.

The difference is that your workers can choose to be there for the long haul. Our players cannot. At best, they all lose a year of wear/tear on their football careers. At worst, they lose eligibility and not to mention the mental idea of being signed by a school then cast out in favor of younger players, simply because the younger players will be there next year. That's total horseshit. Do you think Errol Thompson deserves to lose these games because of what MAY happen the next few years?

I still cringe when I hear Croom on that SEC show saying, "You guys won't be here when we reap the rewards" while crying talking about how he loved those kids. Guess what? He was right, they weren't there, nor was anyone else, because the rewards never came. Unless you consider the Liberty Bowl a reward. And honestly, I'm afraid that the 'reward' for the Leach experiment is going to be a riveting 7-5 or 8-4 season just like that.

This is college football. Every game counts. Players get 4 years to actually play. The only way a 'rebuild' is necessary is if the win total for this year will likely not surpass the win total of the previous year. That was NOT the case here. The chickens will eventually come home to roost on the person who allowed this happen.

 

[thatsbaseball]

You are correct sir.

 

[thekimmer]

Leach probably has a valid reason to be frustrated with criticism. The people who are mad at leach are really mad at Cohen. They may just not realize it yet.

Joe on the other hand... he made his fatal mistake engaging with the fans the way he did. He inherited a team that had a good culture, good talent and was ready to win big and he laid a turd.

Based on their track record Leach probably never got much criticism at WSU or TT and especially during the early days where the team sucked badly like now. He is just not accustomed to it. Welcome to the SEC coach.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

None of that absolves the leader of the need to lead, nor does it put any onus on the leader other than to lead in a direction that helps build the program for the long haul. I suspect Errol will learn a ton of great life lessons about grit and what it takes to be successful in tough situations. I suspect he will take those lessons with him in life and be better for it. I suspect that anyone who looks backward at losing college football games and holds that as a high reason that they haven't been successful in life is not being honest with themselves. I even bet that that kind of individual would have found something, other than their actions to blame if things didn't go their way. I suspect that anybody who faces adversity has a choice in how they handle it.

 

[CreekFishin]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Peaches has a Jerry Rice-like hold on #1. Now, in the Most User Names category Goat's obviously the leader.

Don’t be a condescending jerk?

Okay goat, AKA the biggest condescending jerk in the history of MSU message boards.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

None of that absolves the leader of the need to lead, nor does it put any onus on the leader other than to lead in a direction that helps build the program for the long haul. I suspect Errol will learn a ton of great life lessons about grit and what it takes to be successful in tough situations. I suspect he will take those lessons with him in life and be better for it. I suspect that anyone who looks backward at losing college football games and holds that as a high reason that they haven't been successful in life is not being honest with themselves. I even bet that that kind of individual would have found something, other than their actions to blame if things didn't go their way. I suspect that anybody who faces adversity has a choice in how they handle it.

Got nothing to do with if a player is successful in life. You have a short window of time playing college ball and you want to be the best you can be while you're there.

Your talk of "leading" is really misplaced. Leaders know what they are doing. Leach is one of those. Cohen is not, at least in his current position. He needs to be coaching baseball, where his skillset is useful. Leach will get it turned around, to 8-4, which is absolutely not worth the price of his 'rebuild'.

You can lead people right off the cliff. Doesn't mean you're not a good leader. Means your on the wrong path. When you're skills don't match the position, that tends to happen.

 

[thekimmer]

Bruiser’s post above should give some perspective to the Negative Nancys. If this team were playing their normal schedule we are talking about a five win team, maybe six with a little luck. They would probably lose to NC State but would absolutely beat the others. They have two conference wins and have an outside chance to win another. All things considered, three conference wins would be pretty good IMHO. I know things look bad right now but have some perspective, the best coach in our history had four seasons with three or less conference wins.

That is true but I really don't think the consteration right now is about wins and losses. Mind you nobody is going to be happy at 2-4 but they would be a hell of a lot less unhappy if we were showing at least a hint of a pulse on offense. Case in point is the mississippi sharts.

The reason is two-fold. 1) You can overcome bad defense with good offense a heck of a lot easier than you can overcome bad offense with good D. It is just nearly impossible to win when you cannot even move the football much less score. Plus a high scoring game is so much easier to watch. 2) We hired a guy, and are paying him $5M, specifically for his offensive prowess. I get it that this is year 1 and we must be patient but it is still a hard pill to swallow when that 'high flying' offense is putting up 200 yards against vandy.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Who knows, you may be right. I think most of us who were on the fence for the Leach hire suppressed our doubts since we weren't sure if he was the answer, but embraced the change, any change, since we knew for a certainty Jugghead was a confirmed bust.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Well, you've gotten me to quit with that reply...

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