Political Thread: Global Warming Edition

[CatDaddy4daWin]

I guess Republicans think the American people elected Benjamin Netanyahu as their leader, I can't think of any other reason why they would be delivering his letters to Iran.

It's just shy of treason and if the shoe was on the other foot their would be trials and witch hunts over this.

And for you constitutional folks, telling states to ignore the EPA who has been subjected to Supreme Court review and passed, is pretty much pissing on the constitution that you accuse Obama of. But hey I guess since he's doing it we will too right, I mean that's your stupid logic on everything. Just like Obamacare was found to be constitutional despite your cries otherwise.

Like I've said a hundred times, hypocrites. Doing a bang up job of running Congress.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Originally posted by CatDaddy4daWin:
I guess Republicans think the American people elected Benjamin Netanyahu as their leader, I can't think of any other reason why they would be delivering his letters to Iran.

It's just shy of treason and if the shoe was on the other foot their would be trials and witch hunts over this.

And for you constitutional folks, telling states to ignore the EPA who has been subjected to Supreme Court review and passed, is pretty much pissing on the constitution that you accuse Obama of. But hey I guess since he's doing it we will too right, I mean that's your stupid logic on everything. Just like Obamacare was found to be constitutional despite your cries otherwise.

Like I've said a hundred times, hypocrites. Doing a bang up job of running Congress.

Jesus christ you're a dumb ***.

I could give two ***** whether Iran gets a nuclear bomb. I sort of hope they do and the entire Middle East just spirals out of control so long as the radiation can stay on that side of the world.

What I do find hilarious is that you're now screaming TREASON because the republicans decided to once again inform Obama how the US government works. Surprised he didn't have the same, "so sue me" response. I wish they would sue him, but they haven't. He's pissed because this is a classic Obama move. Do an end around the opposition at all costs to get your way. The Republicans are trying to out-Obama Obama on this one.

He's unilaterally rewritten Obamacare. He granted unilateral amnesty. He's repeatedly talked about how he has to go around Congress to get his way. He's **** all over the privacy rights of Americans. He's made Nixon look like a choir boy.

But now, the separation of powers and each branch's rightful place in government wants to be discussed. You made your bed. You can't defend someone shitting all over the Constitution and then cry foul when the other side pushes the envelope.


I think it's retarded what the Republicans did. If they weren't just out-Obamaing Obama, I'd be a little more pissed. I would say I'm disappointed in how the Repbulicans are doing in Congress, but it's exactly what I expected and that's why I didn't vote for any of them in November.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Originally posted by ukalumni00:
Continued to be amazed with the pathetic leadership in the GOP. Like others have said they get the majority and have done nothing but screwed that up and it has not even been 3 months since they took over. Reid is in his own league of pathetic leadership, but the others are not far behind. One step would have been electing new leadership for both parties, but in typical Washington fashion money and power spoke too loud once again.

Sooner or later hopefully all Americans wake up and quit toeing party lines and start holding everyone in Washington accountable. There are a few who are there trying to do the right thing, but there are not many left.

This is why I was telling you all it didn't matter if Grimes got elected, and may actually be better for the country.

Nothing would be different right now. But that could have been the end for McConnell and Grimes could have been voted out next cycle.

If you voted for McConnell you are part of this problem.

 

[Uncle Ivan]

Originally posted by Bill Cosby:

**** off.

This x 1000.

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

But if she's the nominee; you're voting for her. Are you not?

I'm undecided. Jeb Bush is someone I could conceivable vote for if he get's the nomination. He has a good record as a governor of a large state which is significant. He has some business experience and has done good work on education.
I think he is much more his dad who I voted for than his brother who was a joke. We'll see how it shakes out.

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by dgtatu01:
I consider myself a conservative, but the Republicans have totally peed down their leg with the majority in both houses. Good lord, this is the sorriest excuse of governing I have ever heard of. The audacity of senators to send a letter to a foreign government claiming that they may not want to use diplomacy with the president because he might not be in office and sighting the Constitution????? I am quite sure the Constitution lays out specifically that the duties of the executive branch are to deal diplomatically with foreign governments and negotiate treaties, etc.

I totally agree with that. Every one of these jackasses should be handed a M-16 and sent over to Iran to fight if that's where we eventually go.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

I totally agree with that.

Well that's shocking.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

#47traitors

This is what happens when you hate Obama more than you love your country.


This post was edited on 3/10 1:14 PM by CatDaddy4daWin

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by Bill Cosby:

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

I totally agree with that.

Well that's shocking.

No ****, he and catdaddy should go tell Tom Cotton that. multipletours#

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by qwesley:

Pfffft....Harry Reid who referred to Bush as "loser" and that we had "lost the Iraq War" says today that the GOP is "empowering the ayatollahs"

Not sure justifying a new bottom with the "they did it first' excuse is the way to go here. Actually, I am sure. It's not the way to go, unless you're going for the role of partisan shill that blindly supports your side.

I'm sure what Pelosi was doing in the photo is wrong. Not because I know what she's trying to do, I don't, but because it's Nancy Pelosi.

This letter isn't about an attempt to "educate" Iran on how the US government works. That's laughable. First, Iran can access any detail of our constitutional process any time they want via the interwebz. Second, the process in which the letter purports the ratification of international treaties within the US government is erroneous.

This is just an embarrassment for everyone involved in writing and signing the letter. Obviously those on the left will fall all over themselves in trying to lambaste the authors and co-signers with hyberbolic and hypocritical tirades, but any such fallout won't measure that relating to this ridiculously stupid letter to Iran's regime.

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by Mime-Is-Money:

Originally posted by qwesley:

Pfffft....Harry Reid who referred to Bush as "loser" and that we had "lost the Iraq War" says today that the GOP is "empowering the ayatollahs"

Not sure justifying a new bottom with the "they did it first' excuse is the way to go here.




Didn't justify anything. The letter is pretty pointless. Really any "agreement" with Iran is pointless. I just find these treason and general outrage comments classic. DC has devolved into a trollfest and I there is not doubt though one party has been the most egregious in driving it there.

 

[JHB4UK]

Originally posted by CatDaddy4daWin:
#47traitors

This is what happens when you hate Obama more than you love your country.


This post was edited on 3/10 1:14 PM by CatDaddy4daWin

Whoa, lookie here, another example of Democrats meddling in foreign policy counter to the sitting President of the United States. Since you have displayed that you are clearly a very young and very ignorant person who gleens your politics from Vox or daily show or john oliver, the guy on the left is then Senator/now Secretary of State John Kerry, guy in the middle is just recently retired Sen Tom Harkin, and the dude in the fatigues is a central american communist bloodthirsty dictator named Ortega

TRAITORS!*!!01!1!

 

[Deeeefense]

Since I guess this is handshake Tuesday, here's another one. . . .

 

[Deeeefense]

Oh and since we're talking about Iran. . . .

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

My party

Just stop

Sorry, forgot you get to decide who is in what party and what they must believe. You're a perfect fit for the mess in DC.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by qwesley:

I just find these treason and general outrage comments classic. DC has devolved into a trollfest and I there is not doubt though one party has been the most egregious in driving it there.

If you're first reaction is to dig through past examples of the other political party phucking up to avoid discussing the issue then you're doing it wrong. Then to get hung up on what others are saying about your side is perpetuating the ridiculous.

Pushing "it's the other side's fault that we are stooping this low" is definitely the way towards improvement.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

But if she's the nominee; you're voting for her. Are you not?

I'm undecided. Jeb Bush is someone I could conceivable vote for if he get's the nomination. He has a good record as a governor of a large state which is significant. He has some business experience and has done good work on education.
I think he is much more his dad who I voted for than his brother who was a joke. We'll see how it shakes out.

Lengthy article, but read this and you might change your mind.

 

[wkycatfan7]

I hate partisan politics more each day. It's going to take a national crisis of some sort to make us band together and be a united country again. The influence of the greatest generation is nearly gone.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Is anyone here defending the republicans?

What they did was incredibly stupid. They look like childish idiots - and for all intents and purposes, that's what they are. Saying it another way, it's exactly what we've come to expect from Obama, and what you morons have defended lockstep.

All they're doing is out Obama-ing Obama. None of you dipshits that voted for Obama once and especially TWICE get to say a word about this.



You give Obama a pass for all the meddling and illegal use of his executive agencies while POTUS - you scoff that people even ask questions about the IRS/Benghazi/gun running/"green" energy deals/etc. etc. THAT'S ALL DIRECTLY EFFECTING YOU AS AN AMERICAN.

But now the Republicans have committed TREASON, an offense punishable by death, because they sent a letter to some ******** in Iran, and ruined the deal that was finally going to bring peace to a region that has been at war for thousands of years. Seriously. The republicans are going to be blamed by the left for the next few hundred years of violence because Obama, the man who claimed he'd stop the oceans from rising, our Nobel Peace Prize POTUS, was finally going to bring peace to the middle east. They ruined the messiah's one true shot at peace.

So Obama can **** all over the Consitution and act as if the separation of powers doesn't exist, so long as it's only Americans that are being harmed. But as soon as the republicans step out of line on a peace deal that was never going to bring peace to a region, they're the traitors.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:


But if she's the nominee; you're voting for her. Are you not?

I'm undecided. Jeb Bush is someone I could conceivable vote for if he get's the nomination. He has a good record as a governor of a large state which is significant. He has some business experience and has done good work on education.
I think he is much more his dad who I voted for than his brother who was a joke. We'll see how it shakes out.

You know good and well you would never vote for Jeb. The only reason you even typed this is the inane delusion of grandeur which allows you to believe it may somehow trick even 1 republican voter into voting for Jeb in the primary; which makes you somehow feel fulfilled.

1) We know youre not being genuine

2) Jeb will almost certainly mean victory for the Dems, because undecided voters wont vote for a Bush

3) The GOP voters may be dumb enough to elect him anyway

 

[JHB4UK]

Originally posted by Mime-Is-Money:
If you're first reaction is to dig through past examples of the other political party phucking up to avoid discussing the issue then you're doing it wrong. Then to get hung up on what others are saying about your side is perpetuating the ridiculous.

Pushing "it's the other side's fault that we are stooping this low" is definitely the way towards improvement.

Obama's been wiping his *** for 6 years with any concept of the 3 balanced branches of government on which we have existed for 220+ years.

Recess appointments when Senate isnt recessed.
Waging ware against Libya without asking Congress for authorization.
Changing Obamacare time after time to make it less politically painful than full lawful implementation.
Amnestying millions of illegal invaders 2 separate times.
On the verge of giving away the candy store to the terrorists of Iran.

Instead of calls for him to step back his dictatorial unconstitutional acts the left in congress and the media cheers him on.

Glad some on the right have finally started growing their spines back and are answering fire with fire. Inviting other heads of state to address Congress (and the country). Educating islamic dictators that any surrender given them by Obama is worthless.

Want to have conversations about balance of power, about appropriate actions by segments of government? well welcome to the party lefties, but you are just a few years too late.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by JHB4UK:

Originally posted by Mime-Is-Money:
If you're first reaction is to dig through past examples of the other political party phucking up to avoid discussing the issue then you're doing it wrong. Then to get hung up on what others are saying about your side is perpetuating the ridiculous.

Pushing "it's the other side's fault that we are stooping this low" is definitely the way towards improvement.

Obama's been wiping his *** for 6 years with any concept of the 3 balanced branches of government on which we have existed for 220+ years.

Recess appointments when Senate isnt recessed.
Waging ware against Libya without asking Congress for authorization.
Changing Obamacare time after time to make it less politically painful than full lawful implementation.
Amnestying millions of illegal invaders 2 separate times.
On the verge of giving away the candy store to the terrorists of Iran.

Instead of calls for him to step back his dictatorial unconstitutional acts the left in congress and the media cheers him on.

Glad some on the right have finally started growing their spines back and are answering fire with fire. Inviting other heads of state to address Congress (and the country). Educating islamic dictators that any surrender given them by Obama is worthless.

Want to have conversations about balance of power, about appropriate actions by segments of government? well welcome to the party lefties, but you are just a few years too late.

You're still justifying stupidity by laying blame on the other side. Good luck with that.

"Educating islamic dictators that any surrender given them by Obama is worthless"

There is no "education" going on here. The letter was stupid and has a very limited understanding of US precedence with international treaties negotiated with foreign leaders. If the left did, it would still be stupid.

Believe me, the left has done some really retarded things, in the most classic and controversial senses of the word. But that still doesn't excuse the stupidity of this letter.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by Bill Cosby:

Is anyone here defending the republicans?

Originally posted by JHB4UK:
Glad some on the right have finally started growing their spines back and are answering fire with fire. Inviting other heads of state to address Congress (and the country). Educating islamic dictators that any surrender given them by Obama is worthless.


[/QUOTE]I'm not sure why this letter is a necessary stepping stone to discuss the alleged abuse of power by the current, or any administration. Such ostensible abuse of power is already discussed ad nauseum on this thread (nee board). Why can't the absurdity of this direct letter to the ruling clerics of Iran that the current negotiations between the US, Iran, and 4 other nations may not be valid (the phuck?!?) be addressed on its own?

That's one of the many problems of the prevailing political discourse in this country.
This post was edited on 3/10 3:14 PM by Mime-Is-Money

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

My party

Just stop

Sorry, forgot you get to decide who is in what party and what they must believe.

No, it is the fact you have never posted one pro-Rep word and have probably one of the most blindly optimistic views of govt involvement we have seen here.

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by Mime-Is-Money:

Pushing "it's the other side's fault that we are stooping this low" is definitely the way towards improvement.

Obama's been wiping his *** for 6 years with any concept of the 3 balanced branches of government on which we have existed for 220+ years.

Mime, until you can show the balls to give these little lectures to your team, just stfu. Really.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

My party

Just stop

Sorry, forgot you get to decide who is in what party and what they must believe.

No, it is the fact you have never posted one pro-Rep word and have probably one of the most blindly optimistic views of govt involvement we have seen here.

Examples of my blind love for all that is government please

 

[qwesley]

EKY, not going back into the NN discussion but your myopia, bordering on poetry, toward how this would create groundbreaking competition was comical.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Blind support of government regulation of the internet without ever seeing one word of actual regulation ring a bell?

 

[EastKYWildcat]

So my support of net neutrality seriously leads you to believe that? How are you making that jump?

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:
Lengthy article, but read this and you might change your mind.

Yea he was on the wrong side of the Schiavo issue but in the greater context of things considering the major issues we face this has to be very minor. Also you have to realize that politicans of both parties have to do a certain amount of pandering to their base.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:
Lengthy article, but read this and you might change your mind.

Yea he was on the wrong side of the Schiavo issue but in the greater context of things considering the major issues we face this has to be very minor. Also you have to realize that politicans of both parties have to do a certain amount of pandering to their base.

I'm extremely uncomfortable in granting that man any amount of power after his actions regarding Schiavo.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by qwesley:
Mime, until you can show the balls to give these little lectures to your team, just stfu. Really.

If you need someone else to show you how to put partisan politics aside to 'be the bigger man' and discuss blunders of diplomacy on the international stage then you really need to re-evaluate your priorities.

The lectures to my team are more than taken care of by the conservatives that repsresent 90% of this thread.

Obama has done some really, REALLY stupid things in regards to ISIS and Russia. Anyone that can't admit that on the left is horribly misguided and ruining any attempt at constructive political discourse.

See, it's not that hard. Not sure why you see that as an alternative to shutting the phuck up. Really.

Your turn and you're welcome.


This post was edited on 3/10 3:29 PM by Mime-Is-Money

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by Mime-Is-Money:

Originally posted by qwesley:
Mime, until you can show the balls to give these little lectures to your team, just stfu. Really.

If you need someone else to show you how to put partisan politics aside to 'be the bigger man' and discuss blunders of diplomacy on the international stage then you really need to re-evaluate your priorities.

The lectures to my team are more than taken care of by the conservatives that repsresent 90% of this thread.

Obama has done some really, REALLY stupid things in regards to ISIS and Russia.

See, it's not that hard. Not sure why you feel that was called up as an alternative to shutting the phuck up. Really.

You're turn and you're welcome.

I already did it above when I said it was stupid, try reading. You conflated the two issues (Iran, fake outrage) to make a smarmy dig.
And the whole "I never criticize the left because others do it" is pussyish contrived copout. bb79 does that too. Only when absolutely called out do you throw a generic "he does stupid things" umbrella out there. You can call it a copout to say the left has devolved DC to a much higher degree but it is still very true.
Like BC said, any lefty showing up and faking outrage after being silent for 6 years can get pumped.

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

You know good and well you would never vote for Jeb. The only reason you even typed this is the inane delusion of grandeur which allows you to believe it may somehow trick even 1 republican voter into voting for Jeb in the primary; which makes you somehow feel fulfilled.

1) We know youre not being genuine

2) Jeb will almost certainly mean victory for the Dems, because undecided voters wont vote for a Bush

3) The GOP voters may be dumb enough to elect him anyway

You're not only wrong but your delusional as well. why would I not vote for Bush? I voted for his father and I also voted for Reagan - twice. I vote for who I think is the best person to lead the country and that isn't always going to be the person who I can check most of the boxes with.

Secondly the country is by and large centrist. Center right, center left, independent or otherwise somewhat flexible in their voting patterns. No one from the far left or far right is going to get elected. Jeb is very electable, and unless she self destructs, so is Clinton. Scott Walker could be but he's proven to be somewhat in over his head so far but he could pull it off. There is no one else in the Republican field that's electable. Rand Paul has too many extreme views, Mike Huckabee is a joke, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz they all appeal to a wing of one party which is about 25% of the electorate, but have virtually no appeal to the moderate swing voters you need to get elected.

If you know anything about electoral politics you will know that the road to the whitehouse runs through Ohio and Florida. they are the 2 key swing states that you need to get into office. Of the Republicans out there who do you think would have the best chance of winning Florida? Jeb of course!

BTW I'm not hear to "trick" anyone for voting for a particular person - how stupid is that? Anyway as far as this board goes which is very far right, If I say I like a certain Pub, it's most probably reason for them to vote AGAINST them not for them.

This post was edited on 3/10 3:33 PM by Deeeefense

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Originally posted by qwesley:
I already did it above when I said it was stupid, try reading. You conflated the two issues (Iran, fake outrage) to make a smarmy dig.

You never said it was stupid, you said the letter was pointless =/= stupid. Try reading your own posts.

Actually, your first 4 responses on the matter was 'Obama and the Dems did it first'. while being flippant on the issu. That's where I found the inherent flaw in appropriately addressing this action as a stupid one and moving on.

But now you call it stupid. We're at an agreement.

Yes, I'm smarmy, just like you. Good times. If you don't think you have the same posting style then you need to take a step back and re-read this garbage thread. You're smarmy. Own it.

Originally posted by qwesley:

And the whole "I never criticize the left because others do it" is pussyish contrived copout.

I criticize the left, just not on here that often because I have better things to do MOST of the time.

The left does some really retarded things. There, it's now 4-1 in my favor. It's kinda funny that you ask me to do it (or STFUPZ!!) and then say it's a cop out when I oblige.

Originally posted by qwesley:

Only when absolutely called out do you throw a generic "he does stupid things" umbrella out there. You can call it a copout to say the left has devolved DC to a much higher degree but it is still very true.

I wasn't called out. My first post on the matter talked about hyperbolic and hypocritical figures on the left reacting to the absurdity of the letter.

And no, it's not "very true". It takes two to tango. I'm actually surprised you think this way to lay the blame squarely on one side.

Originally posted by qwesley:

Like BC said, any lefty showing up and faking outrage after being silent for 6 years can get pumped.

And like I said, on my own, if anyone's first reaction to this kind of ridiculous effort is to point the other way and say they did it first then, in my opinion, they should really re-evaluate their priorities. I used to do the same, now I don't (as often) and have found it much more satisfying. Maybe it's just me. I would apologize if that seems severe and targeted, but it was meant that way and I'm not sorry. The reaction that I addressed is, and will always be, a complete waste of time.


This post was edited on 3/10 4:04 PM by Mime-Is-Money

 

[CherylD]

For those that didn't hear Hillary's pc, it was hilarious. She was lying pure and simple.


-- She was not going to turn over her private server.
-- She didn't want to carry 2 devices with her (so she could use 2 email accounts).
-- It was Bill Clinton's server she was using.
-- She has already destroyed some emails.
-- It was more convenient to use her private email accounts.
--Did not want to answer why she fired an ambassador because he used private email accounts.


If anyone thinks that she should even be considered for POTUS, she was absolutely a sorry excuse for a candidate.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

You know good and well you would never vote for Jeb. The only reason you even typed this is the inane delusion of grandeur which allows you to believe it may somehow trick even 1 republican voter into voting for Jeb in the primary; which makes you somehow feel fulfilled.

1) We know youre not being genuine

2) Jeb will almost certainly mean victory for the Dems, because undecided voters wont vote for a Bush

3) The GOP voters may be dumb enough to elect him anyway

You're not only wrong but your delusional as well. why would I not vote for Bush? I voted for his father and I also voted for Reagan - twice. I vote for who I think is the best person to lead the country and that isn't always going to be the person who I can check most of the boxes with.

Secondly the country is by and large centrist. Center right, center left, independent or otherwise somewhat flexible in their voting patterns. No one from the far left or far right is going to get elected. Jeb is very electable, and unless she self destructs, so is Clinton. Scott Walker could be but he's proven to be somewhat in over his head so far but he could pull it off. There is no one else in the Republican field that's electable. Rand Paul has too many extreme views, Mike Huckabee is a joke, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz they all appeal to a wing of one party which is about 25% of the electorate, but have virtually no appeal to the moderate swing voters you need to get elected.

If you know anything about electoral politics you will know that the road to the whitehouse runs through Ohio and Florida. they are the 2 key swing states that you need to get into office. Of the Republicans out there who do you think would have the best chance of winning Florida? Jeb of course!

BTW I'm not hear to "trick" anyone for voting for a particular person - how stupid is that? Anyway as far as this board goes which is very far right, If I say I like a certain Pub, it's most probably reason for them to vote AGAINST them not for them.

This post was edited on 3/10 3:33 PM by Deeeefense

Nothing yout say will convince me you would ever vote for any non democrat; whether it be Reagan or Jeb.

Oh I didn't say you'd trick anyone into voting for Jeb. I said you might hope to do so. That's why I said it was delusional; because we all know you're never voting for anyone other than Dems.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

Nothing you say will convince me

..and thus our government's unsustainable state of affairs

 

[Chuckinden]

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

My party

Just stop

Sorry, forgot you get to decide who is in what party and what they must believe.

No, it is the fact you have never posted one pro-Rep word and have probably one of the most blindly optimistic views of govt involvement we have seen here.

And you are the extreme opposite.

 

[warrior-cat]

Originally posted by EastKYWildcat:

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

Nothing you say will convince me

..and thus our government's unsustainable state of affairs

Not really in this case. Blue knows as do many of us that Deee is pure partisen. In one post he will profess he is tired of the corruption in all politics then, in the next sentence blast the GOP and defend the left while singing the praises of Obama and his supporters.