poor old Tiger... the bitchiness was back but he still sucks...

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I just do not see him breaking Jack's record because he does not have enough courage to admit he might need help. He would rather pull the ******** like yesterday of "no, I only enter a tournament to win because I am Tiger" crap. Any other golfer with sense would be more than willing to at least say publicly, after going through the past 2 years that Tiger has, "well, I am going to need some time to get back in the groove but dammit, I will get there". Not just be a total *****. He just cannot understand that he is not the same person. I see him going back to his old swing when the new one doesn't produce results. When he does go back to the old swing, thats when the deterioration of the knee goes into overdrive and ends this.

Also, something I find humorous... He is ranked #28 in the world now. Well, apparently, the world rankings are basically a running total of the past 2 years. So, he is still getting a lot of benefit from the fact that won some tourneys 21 months ago. By the end of this year, he will be lucky to be ranked in the top 100.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I just do not see him breaking Jack's record because he does not have enough courage to admit he might need help. He would rather pull the ******** like yesterday of "no, I only enter a tournament to win because I am Tiger" crap. Any other golfer with sense would be more than willing to at least say publicly, after going through the past 2 years that Tiger has, "well, I am going to need some time to get back in the groove but dammit, I will get there". Not just be a total *****. He just cannot understand that he is not the same person. I see him going back to his old swing when the new one doesn't produce results. When he does go back to the old swing, thats when the deterioration of the knee goes into overdrive and ends this.

Also, something I find humorous... He is ranked #28 in the world now. Well, apparently, the world rankings are basically a running total of the past 2 years. So, he is still getting a lot of benefit from the fact that won some tourneys 21 months ago. By the end of this year, he will be lucky to be ranked in the top 100.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I just do not see him breaking Jack's record because he does not have enough courage to admit he might need help. He would rather pull the ******** like yesterday of "no, I only enter a tournament to win because I am Tiger" crap. Any other golfer with sense would be more than willing to at least say publicly, after going through the past 2 years that Tiger has, "well, I am going to need some time to get back in the groove but dammit, I will get there". Not just be a total *****. He just cannot understand that he is not the same person. I see him going back to his old swing when the new one doesn't produce results. When he does go back to the old swing, thats when the deterioration of the knee goes into overdrive and ends this.

Also, something I find humorous... He is ranked #28 in the world now. Well, apparently, the world rankings are basically a running total of the past 2 years. So, he is still getting a lot of benefit from the fact that won some tourneys 21 months ago. By the end of this year, he will be lucky to be ranked in the top 100.

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

This might be the worst post ever.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

sorry for offending, Tiger</p>

 

[gravedigger]

arrogant *** and people love to think how the mighty have fallen.

But the poster just forgets that the kid pretty much didnt get to be number one on a fluke. He is that much better. He wont a major on a broken 17ing leg.

He had the greatest claiming he would smash all his records.

Tiger will be back. He may never dominate like he did, but he'll be number one again, and when it happens not one soul will ever admit they doubted it. </p>

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I used to like Tiger. I really did. Then, I got so tired of the "show". I got so tired of the missing of a 50 foot putt and then looking around at everyone like "I read that perfectly. Obviously, the earth shifted because I read it perfectly". I get so tired of the "attempts" at being cocky.

His interview after his round yesterday was just so douche. I just do not believe he has great years left in him. He's 35 in a sport that is being dominated by 20-25 year olds. He also has a knee that might as well be that of a 70 year old after knee replacement.

I am, in no way, saying that he will never win again. But, he will not put together the quality play in every tournament that kept him at #1 for so long. And yes, I will love watching every second of it. I would love for him to win 17 majors.... and that be it.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

Tiger will be back. He may never dominate like he did, but he'll be number one again, and when it happens not one soul will ever admit they doubted it.

No way he gets back to #1. He might have a couple of good years and even win a major or two, but his days of being the unquestioned best are over.

 

[dogfan96]

nm

 

[gravedigger]

lets test that theory.

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

at least when it comes to coverage of golf. ESPN running Tiger's score on the bottom of the screen. Who gives a 17 if he's in contention for making the top 25 in the tournament?

 

[DAWG61]

is currently tied for 38th along with Phil Mickelson. He's 9 shots better than Darren Clarke. No he's not winning but I'm still impressed. Why arnt you? Of course he's trying to win the tournament. You don't get the title of worlds alltime greatest golfer without the mentality that you're the worlds greatest golfer. Don't get confused. Tiger IS the all-time best EVER!! His stretch of 13 year dominance secured that title awhile ago. He can never win another tournament again and 1997-2009 Tiger Woods IS the best ever. Period.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Thats just stupid. I am not saying by any stretch that he won't become the best. I hope he doesn't but at this point, there is no way you can say he is the best ever.

Tiger has 14 major championships and about14 top 5 finishes in Majors.

Nicklaus has 18 majors and freaking 20 SECOND PLACE finishes in Majors.

This is not just Tiger hate. He cannot compete with that 'yet'. He may well do it, but he's not there yet. And until he learns how to putt again, he won't be getting any closer any time soon

Edited to change fat fingered 9 to 0 on second place finishes

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Until Tiger actually beats Nicklaus, he's not better than him.

Tiger:

<table style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #aaa 1px solid; TEXT-ALIGN: center; BORDER-LEFT: #aaa 1px solid; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-SIZE: 95%; BORDER-TOP: #aaa 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #aaa 1px solid" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3"><tbody><tr style="BACKGROUND: #eee"><th align="left">Tournament</th><th>1995</th><th>1996</th><th>1997</th><th>1998</th><th>1999</th><th>2000</th><th>2001</th><th>2002</th><th>2003</th><th>2004</th><th>2005</th><th>2006</th><th>2007</th><th>2008</th><th>2009</th><th>2010</th><th>2011</th></tr><tr><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><font color="#0645ad">The Masters</font></td><td>T41 <span style="FONT-SIZE: 0.8em"><font size="1">LA</font></span></td><td>CUT</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T8</td><td>T18</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">5</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T15</td><td>T22</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T3</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T2</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">2</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T6</td><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: yellow">T4</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T4</td></tr><tr><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><font color="#0645ad">U.S. Open</font></td><td>WD</td><td>T82</td><td>T19</td><td>T18</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T3</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T12</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T20</td><td>T17</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">2</td><td>CUT</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T2</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T6</td><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: yellow">T4</td><td>DNP</td></tr><tr><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><font color="#0645ad">The Open Championship</font></td><td>T68</td><td>T22 <span style="FONT-SIZE: 0.8em"><font size="1">LA</font></span></td><td>T24</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">3</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T7</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T25</td><td>T28</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T4</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T9</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T12</td><td>DNP</td><td>CUT</td><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">T23</td><td>DNP</td></tr><tr><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><font color="#0645ad">PGA Championship</font></td><td>DNP</td><td>DNP</td><td>T29</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T10</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>T29</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">2</td><td>T39</td><td>T24</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">T4</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td style="BACKGROUND: lime">1</td><td>DNP</td><td style="BACKGROUND: yellow">2</td><td style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">T28</td></tr></tbody></table>14 Major wins, 22 Top 10s

Nicklaus:

18 Major wins, 55 Top 10s.

Also, you want to talk about great stretches... During the ENTIRE DECADE OF THE 1970s, Nicklaus did not finish in the top 10 in FIVE MAJORS!!! Thats right. Out of 40 Major events, he finished outside of the top 10 in only 5

 

[DAWG61]

stupid argument. Old golf can't compete with new golf. Just like old baseball,football,and basketball players can't compete with the modern day player. Old *** Jack and his ****** 10 other players he competed against wouldn't even sniff the same amount of success today as they did back in the good ol days.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

are you really kidding me with this argument? Hell, Nicklaus had to actually compete against some of the other top golfers of all time. Who is Tiger's biggest competitor? Phil? who else?

This is not the argument you want to make, sir.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

until further notice.
Tiger, in my opinion is not finished.
Both have/ had that intimidating factor.

Time will tell.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

He may very well become the best but he isn't it today. I, for one, hope he doesn't ever regain his form. But, I would be the first to say he deserves it if it happens. But, it certainly has not happened already.

 

[DAWG61]

Palmer, Player, Watson is because there was only 10-20 guys worth a ****. It's a little easier to finish in the top 10 when only 20 guys can play championship level golf. The modern day player has to compete against a MUCH LARGER pool of highly talented players. The top 200 players now have legitimate chances to get hot for 4 days and win. That can't be said about professional golf before idk 1997. This isn't just limited to golf. ANY competition is harder to win when the pool of players is multiplied by 10.

 

[patdog]

Nicklaus has 18 majors and freaking 20 SECOND PLACE finishes in Majors.

The 38 top-2 finishes may be even more impressive than the 18 titles. That's pretty damn incredible. Tiger's barely halfway to matching that.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

a ton of tourneys. If I had to guess, you are a bit younger than me and do not really understand golf 'before' Tiger. You can argue all you want but when Jack was competing, he had 4-5 other players that had won 5+ majors (Player had 8, Palmer had 7-8, Watson has 7, I think) and a bunch of other players like Raymond Floyd, Tom Weiskopf, Johnny Miller and Tom Kite. Just because you don't know how good those players were doesn't mean they weren't good. It says a lot about how little golf was paid attention to on a media level at this time.

Who are the 'legends' that you consider Tiger to be competing against? Lets see, you have Phil (4 majors) and who else? Ernie Els? Padraig Harrington?

If you cannot understand how impressive 38 top 2 finishes in majors is, I cannot help you</p>

 

[DAWG61]

you throwing out numbers of majors won and second places etc...during an era that only had 20 legitimate players is not impressive as you think. It's the same as telling me how many SEC basketball titles Kentucky has. There are only 11 other teams to beat. Now if Kentucky had that same amount of National Championships in basketball you would be more in the neighborhood of the difference between modern golf and Nicklaus golf. More teams/players makes a feat much harder to accomplish. Saying but but but Watson had 5+ majors blah blah doesn't change the TOTAL amount of players Nicklaus competed against. Give Nicklaus and Tiger the same clubs at both their primes and let them play 18 holes of golf on any course and Tiger wins more than he losses. Put the 18 holes on national tv with 100,000 surrounding every hole and Tiger wins EVERY time.

 

[memphodawg]

The way the point system is set up we'll see players swapping the #1 ranking quite a bit. He will never dominate like he once did having Sean "I love me some hair gel" Foley as his coach.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Just because there are more players that YOU think are better doesn't mean ****. Do you have any statistical proof that the 200 hundred golfers playing today are better than the 100 golfers playing in the days of Nicklaus? I argue that there may be more golfers but there are definitely fewer with the ability to win.

And, saying that Tiger beats Nicklaus all the time if they were both in their primes is just proof that you 1) Don't know much about Nicklaus 2) Definitely have no appreciation for how freaking good Nicklaus was 3) to even say that Tiger is a better clutch player than Nicklaus is just beyond dumb... Do I have to find you his back 9 at Augusta in '86?

NEVER did I say Tiger wasn't good. He is. Anyone who says he isn't is an idiot. But, likewise, anyone that refuses to give the respect due to Jack Nicklaus is beyond an idiot.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Because (and I didn't know this until the other day listening to ESPN radio) they use a running total of the past 2 years worth of golf. So, thats why he is actually still ranked so high. But, by the same regard, once this season comes and goes and he still hasn't won, he will have an enormous mountain to climb to get back to the top. He is still getting a lot of credit for the 3-4 victories that he won 21 months ago. When those roll off, he's going to plummet

 

[fishwater99]

By the way. your still and idiot..

Our debt and current spending is unsubstainable at the current level. The problem is the actual debt and the amount it will increase unless spending is decreased and revenues increased. It does no good to increase the debt limit by 3 trillion, if over the same period you add another ten trillion in debt. Both parties have been feeding the beast, but the spending under the democratic Congress and Obama has been totally out of control and reckless to say the least.

 

[mstateglfr]

Are you looking for scoring average? GIR? Driving distance?
What statistical proof are you looking for? To flip that, what proof do you have that the limited talent pool back in the 60s was just as deep as today?

 

[Sutterkane]

and see if he wins.

Because, you know, he hasn't done that.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

You disagree with me, so be it. You are not going to make me change my mind and all the sudden come over to the 'wrong' side of this argument.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

You can 'say' all day long that there are more golfers that 'could' win any tournament but I can also 'say' that there are fewer players that can 'dominate' today. As far as stats, all I can go on to determine the best is that Nicklaus has played the same major tournaments and won more, finished higher in more against competition that also won more than any of Tiger's competition.

Is it really a good argument to say thatthere are hundreds that 'could' win any major or that there are 10-20 that probably 'should' win any major? Its just a flawed argument. And, frankly, I am tired of debating anyone that really, honestly at this point in his career feels that Tiger is actually better than Jack. No way. No possible way you can look at the info available and come up with that. You may very well have a point of 'he WILL be better' but he is not today. And, I feel he never will be.

 

[GTAdawg]

**

 

[DAWG61]

stats when the answer is common sense. There are thousands of "professional" golfers currently. From the nationwide tour to the Korean tour and the 100 other professional tours that are currently paying golfers to compete. Here's a stat you should look up. How many different golfers did Nicklaus finish ahead of in a tournament? Now compare that to how many golfers Tiger has finished ahead of. I bet it's no smaller than 500 more names that Tiger has beat. Was their even 10 professional tours in 1965? Doubt it.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Just to prove the point... Byron Nelson finished 15th in the 1965 Masters. Ben Hogan finished 21st...

Last time... Just because there are MORE golfers today doesn't mean that there are MORE golfers that are great. You just have a flawed argument. You cannot prove any way, shape or form that Tiger is better because he is playing against more (or better) competition if his competition hasn't actually won. Even if there were fewer golfers during Jack's era, there apparently (not according to me but to any golf historian known to man) were some of the greatest golfers of all time playing during that era. THAT WOULD SHOOT DOWN YOUR ARGUMENT. There cannot be 'better' golf today if the golfers are not some of the best of all time. I love Phil Mickelson and he is a great golfer. Is he one of the best ever? No way. He is very, very good. But, he's probably top 15 all time. He is literally the best golfer that Tiger is playing against.

So, do you understand yet? Tiger playing against a bunch of people who rank in the mid 100s and 1000s of greatest golfers ever DOES NOT make his competition better than when Jack was playing against 3-4 from the top 10-15 of all time. Doesn't matter how many more golfers there are that Tiger is playing that rank in the 1000s. There is not the top end talent. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Plus, the sonofabitch hasn't even broken the 17ing records yet. If Michael Jordan never won a championship, would he have ever been the automatic choice for best ever? No. Peyton Manning will never outrank Tom Brady unless he wins more championships.

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm

 

[DAWG61]

the equipment is greatly improved, the players are bigger and stronger, they hit the ball farther and their is many more tiers of higher competition to weed through before you can even be allowed to play on the PGA tour. Hmmm yea that makes sense that the golfer in 1965 would be better than the golfer today. Seriously all those hall of fame names you're throwing out couldn't even beat Dustin Johnson and he's never won a major. Quit living in the 60's buddy. It's over let it go.

 

[thatsbaseball]

he`s won? Let me help you. His competition has been weak. Exactly who are the other great players Tiger has competed with ? Chokleson ?

 

[majors42]

here is a list of winners from the last 51 years of the us open. I have counted the first 25 years and last 26 years to see how many repeat winners there were. I wish I could find the rankings at the time they won, but that would require too much time.

since 1985 there have been 20 different winners
since 1960 up to 1985 there have been 21 winners.

just by looking at how many different winners there were. there has been steady compatition since 1960.

I'm sure there are more tours today than there were in the 50s 60s and 70s though. partly because alot of the world was still recovering from wwII and the korean war.
this arguement is like comparing guys playing football in the 60s and playing football in the 90s. we would never know if the smaller guys in the 60s could have hung with the bigger guys of the 90s. The point is, its a different game with different equipment, money etc.... Jack was the best at the competition he faced and Tiger, until recently, was the best in the competition he faced

2011- mcilory -
2010 - Graeme McDowell -
2009 - Lucas Glover -
2008 - Tiger Woods-p -
2007 - Angel Cabrera -
2006 - Geoff Ogilvy -
2005 - Michael Campbell -
2004 - Retief Goosen -
2003 - Jim Furyk -
2002 - Tiger Woods
2001 - Retief Goosen-p
2000 - Tiger Woods
1999 - Payne Stewart -
1998 - Lee Janzen -
1997 - Ernie Els -
1996 - Steve Jones -
1995 - Corey Pavin -
1994 - Ernie Els
1993 - Lee Janzen
1992 - Tom Kite -
1991 - Payne Stewart-p
1990 - Hale Irwin-p -
1989 - Curtis Strange -
1988 - Curtis Strange-p
1987 - Scott Simpson -
1986 - Ray Floyd -
1985 - Andy North -
1984 - Fuzzy Zoeller-p -
1983 - Larry Nelson -
1982 - Tom Watson -
1981 - David Graham -
1980 - Jack Nicklaus -
1979 - Hale Irwin -
1978 - Andy North -
1977 - Hubert Green -
1976 - Jerry Pate -
1975 - Lou Graham-p -
1974 - Hale Irwin
1973 - Johnny Miller -
1972 - Jack Nicklaus
1971 - Lee Trevino-p -
1970 - Tony Jacklin -
1969 - Orville Moody -
1968 - Lee Trevino -
1967 - Jack Nicklaus
1966 - Billy Casper-p -
1965 - Gary Player-p -
1964 - Ken Venturi -
1963 - Julius Boros-p -
1962 - Jack Nicklaus-p
1961 - Gene Littler -
1960 - Arnold Palmer -

 

[goindhoo]

He just couldn't keep his mouth shut and take the high road. By the way, you didn't win ****. You are caddie. When you start hitting the shots you can open your mouth.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

with worse equipment setting the records that the guy with superior equipment cannot beat, then YES, Jack is far superior.

Give Jack from 1965 the same clubs Tiger has today and he probably whips him by 10 strokes. Also, he probably kicks his *** for being such a ***** smartass.

The top end competition is just not there. You are literally the only person I have ever heard make this argument or even say anything close to it.

And, for the record, I didn't live in the 60s... But, I have watched enough golf to know that there aren't that many golfers that are being talked about today as 'greatest' by anyone but you. You bring up Dustin Johnson. Thats who you think is one of the greatest of today's game is? And you think he is better than Arnold Palmer or any of the like?