QB Competition

[BlueRidgeMtns]

Per Moorhead on Jim Rome regarding the QB competition:

“Both guys are equally skilled as runners. If you look at their histories, they’re both around eight yards per carry, so that’s not going to be what separates them. For us, it’s going to be who throws the ball better, who makes the best decisions, who’s the most accurate, who can push the ball down the field and who can minimize turnovers?”


I hope either one of our guys can just throw the damn ball this year.




Also, this football-less stretch of the year is killing me despite all of the OT threads on grills, bunions, and the MCU.

View attachment 13447

 

[dawgstudent]

Here is the interview for those that want to listen...

 

[maroonmania]

For us, it’s going to be who throws the ball better, who makes the best decisions, who’s the most accurate, who can push the ball down the field and who can minimize turnovers?”

I think this pretty much tells you who the starter will be.

 

[Shmuley]

Translation: Welcome aboard, Tommy.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Or another possible translation:
"KT (& TS), it should be very clear to you both what my expectations are for #1 QB this year. Put in the necessary work to show me which of you will best meet my requirements, thus earning the job."

I don't think JoMo is going to simply assume TS is the man. I think it's speculation he will be better in those areas, primarily because of how KT performed as the backup...not how TS performed also as a backup vs different defenses. I believe KT will have every opportunity to show he has improved, as one would expect a QB to do when elevated from for-sure backup to legit contender to start and being in the 2nd year of Joe's system with the increased reps and focus on him this past off-season and this preseason that was before given to Fitz.

Let's not discount the fact that last year was KT's first exposure to JoMo's system, and even then it was as the backup to Fitz. Sure, TS looked a little better passing than KT, but TS also did not face the defenses KT did. Maybe I'm being naive, but I believe the competition truly is wide open, and if KT does a better job, he'll get what he earns.

 

[patdog]

Of course the competition is wide open from the standpoint that if Thompson outperforms Stevens in practice, he will be the starter. But I think Moorhead knows that Stevens is the strong front runner for the job and will probably be our starting QB when we play ULL on Aug. 31.

 

[Cary Hudson's little bro]

I hope Tommy doesn't think he can lower his shoulder and take on tacklers all season in the SEC. He definitely did that at PSU. He won't make it long.

Fitz was tough as nails and Tommy prob is too, but just run out of bounds when you can.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Of course the competition is wide open from the standpoint that if Thompson outperforms Stevens in practice, he will be the starter. But I think Moorhead knows that Stevens is the strong front runner for the job and will probably be our starting QB when we play ULL on Aug. 31.

You say of course it is wide open...and I agree it is common sense. But there appear to be many others who think it isn't, or at a minimum that KT will have to, "beat out" the expected starter TS. I think JoMo is far more likely to view them both from scratch, waiting to see how things develop between now & the final preseason camp. I believe he was dissatisfied with KT's overall performance last season, but knows KT was a backup in his first year in JoMo's system, as were all other supporting pieces. He knows KT was also limited as the backup. I have no doubt he believes TS has the advantage of being much more experienced in his system, even as a backup at PSU because TS was in it much longer than KT. Yet I am also convinced JoMo is aware comparing performance vs the defenses TS has faced vs those we've faced in the SEC is tricky, so a stat-to-stat comparison between KT & TS is not necessarily as useful as some seem to think.

 

[maroonmania]

Or another possible translation:
"KT (& TS), it should be very clear to you both what my expectations are for #1 QB this year. Put in the necessary work to show me which of you will best meet my requirements, thus earning the job."

I don't think JoMo is going to simply assume TS is the man. I think it's speculation he will be better in those areas, primarily because of how KT performed as the backup...not how TS performed also as a backup vs different defenses. I believe KT will have every opportunity to show he has improved, as one would expect a QB to do when elevated from for-sure backup to legit contender to start and being in the 2nd year of Joe's system with the increased reps and focus on him this past off-season and this preseason that was before given to Fitz.

Let's not discount the fact that last year was KT's first exposure to JoMo's system, and even then it was as the backup to Fitz. Sure, TS looked a little better passing than KT, but TS also did not face the defenses KT did. Maybe I'm being naive, but I believe the competition truly is wide open, and if KT does a better job, he'll get what he earns.

Sure, absolutely KT can win the job, but we all know that accuracy and turnovers have been the 2 things that KT has struggled with since he has been at MSU. Even when KT replaced Fitz in the 2017 Egg Bowl we still win the game pretty handily without 3 turnovers directly from KT (2 fumbles and an INT).

 

[blacklistedbully]

Sure, absolutely KT can win the job, but we all know that accuracy and turnovers have been the 2 things that KT has struggled with since he has been at MSU. Even when KT replaced Fitz in the 2017 Egg Bowl we still win the game pretty handily without 3 turnovers directly from KT (2 fumbles and an INT).

Early turnovers from a QB who did not go into the game expecting to play and who did not get starting reps in practice. Had KT gone into the game as the starter, I suspect he would most likely not have had the t/o problem he did.

 

[patdog]

I think this is semantics. Moorhead can't announce Stevens as the starter before the first practice, but I think he knows Stevens is the better QB and will be the starter. There's a "competition" in the sense there's always a competition for any position. If the backup improves and becomes better than the starter, then he'll replace the starter. But I don't think for a second Moorhead recruited Stevens to be the backup or that Stevens transferred to MSU for to be the backup.

 

[maroonmania]

Early turnovers from a QB who did not go into the game expecting to play and who did not get starting reps in practice. Had KT gone into the game as the starter, I suspect he would most likely not have had the t/o problem he did.

He was a true freshman so I will definitely cut him slack there. BUT, in general, the backup QB is always just one play away from being the starter and should be game ready at any time.

 

[blacklistedbully]

He was a true freshman so I will definitely cut him slack there. BUT, in general, the backup QB is always just one play away from being the starter and should be game ready at any time.

As game-ready as he can be given the comparatively few reps with the 1st team he would have received...not just in the week prior, but throughout the season. I would also put to you, it is one thing to "do your best to be ready at a moments notice" as a backup, but in practice it is difficult, if not impossible to be at your best if & when it does happen.

Being "game ready" includes mental, emotional & physical elements, all three of which are rare to do at one's best in such a situation. It sounds good on paper, but in practice, it is highly unlikely. In reality, you hope for the best, expect the best effort, given the circumstances, but also expect there will be at least a period of adjustment. It's not a switch that can be flipped on except in rare cases, and those cases tend to be athletes who are vets with tons of previous starter experience.

 

[RPOdawg]

Some of y’all are still suggesting that there’s a QB battle at Mississippi State huh?. KT won’t play a snap in the opener.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I didn't suggest TS was brought in to be a backup. He was brought in because he became available and seems to have some real advantages due to his fit and experience in JoMo's system. He was brought in because Joe believes he has great potential to earn #1 QB. I'm just saying I don't think Joe brought him in, "to be the starter unless KT beats him out". Rather I think he brought him in to legitimately compete for the job straight up.

I think TS jumped at the chance because he believes in himself, and knows his familiarity with Joe's system gives him an advantage he would not have elsewhere. I think Tommy knows Joe will absolutely give him the chance to earn the job, and that if he does, this could be his best chance to get a shot at the NFL.

 

[blacklistedbully]

So you think Joe goes with TS no matter what he sees preseason? You're saying KT could improve from last season, do better than TS preseason, but Joe will just ignore that if it happens and go with Tommy because he's already decided TS should be better?

Look, I've already stated TS comes in with the advantage of being more familiar/experienced with Joe's system than KT. But what you don't seem to allow at all for is the possibility KT improves enough and gains enough of a grasp after a year to mitigate Tommy's edge in experience. I'm not saying KT will, but am saying I think Joe is going into this legitimately giving both the chance to show who does best, and will start that guy.

 

[johnson86-1]

So you think Joe goes with TS no matter what he sees preseason? You're saying KT could improve from last season, do better than TS preseason, but Joe will just ignore that if it happens and go with Tommy because he's already decided TS should be better?

Look, I've already stated TS comes in with the advantage of being more familiar/experienced with Joe's system than KT. But what you don't seem to allow at all for is the possibility KT improves enough and gains enough of a grasp after a year to mitigate Tommy's edge in experience. I'm not saying KT will, but am saying I think Joe is going into this legitimately giving both the chance to show who does best, and will start that guy.

Nobody is arguing he won't. It's just that it's unlikely Joe got TS to come here without representing to him that he'll be the best QB on campus when he gets here. Maybe Joe lied and it's actually close, but I am thinking he probably doesn'tn roll that way and that TS is going to be the starter unless KT makes a significant jump beyond where MOorhead expected him to be when he recruited TS. I do think that TS probably gets the nod in a tie breaker b/c if he doesn't start TS after recruiting him as a transfer, that's going to make it harder for him to recruit transfers going forward.

 

[patdog]

You're being ridiculous. Moorhead will start Logan Burnett if he's the best QB this fall. The best QB will start. I'm pretty sure Moorhead already knows who that QB is, pending one of the other guys changing his mind between now and Aug. 31. And that QB is the one he recruited to be the starter this fall.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

In a perfect world, can we start Tommy Stevens, RS Key and make Jaylen Mayden the back up?

 

[RPOdawg]

So you think Joe goes with TS no matter what he sees preseason? You're saying KT could improve from last season, do better than TS preseason, but Joe will just ignore that if it happens and go with Tommy because he's already decided TS should be better?

Look, I've already stated TS comes in with the advantage of being more familiar/experienced with Joe's system than KT. But what you don't seem to allow at all for is the possibility KT improves enough and gains enough of a grasp after a year to mitigate Tommy's edge in experience. I'm not saying KT will, but am saying I think Joe is going into this legitimately giving both the chance to show who does best, and will start that guy.

I’ll say this for like the 100th time on this board. Maybe this time it’ll stick. Joe Moorhead knew months ago when he signed tommy Stevens who his 2019 starting quarterback would be. It’s common sense. You don’t bring on a 5th year grad transfer to sit on the bench. I fully expect KT to be suspended for the first game, and then after that he play his 4 games and use his redshirt. That also is common sense considering he has a redshirt to burn. Some of y’all are making this out to be a competition and it’s just not. Will Moorhead say it’s a competition? Of course, he has too.

 

[maroonmania]

As game-ready as he can be given the comparatively few reps with the 1st team he would have received...not just in the week prior, but throughout the season. I would also put to you, it is one thing to "do your best to be ready at a moments notice" as a backup, but in practice it is difficult, if not impossible to be at your best if & when it does happen.

Being "game ready" includes mental, emotional & physical elements, all three of which are rare to do at one's best in such a situation. It sounds good on paper, but in practice, it is highly unlikely. In reality, you hope for the best, expect the best effort, given the circumstances, but also expect there will be at least a period of adjustment. It's not a switch that can be flipped on except in rare cases, and those cases tend to be athletes who are vets with tons of previous starter experience.

Two of the three turnovers were just running the ball and being stripped. It wasn't like a bad snap exchange or something. I'm not sure additional game preparation would have helped him protect the ball while running. That's something that should have been learned since HS. I bet I could count on one hand the number of fumbles Fitz had running the ball his entire 3 years of starting.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

You NEVER name a starter in the preseason competition, especially in today's transfer crazy climate. The fear is that your back-ups all leave because they weren't named the starter and perhaps you have an injury bonanza like 2007 (Mike Henning injured, Josh Riddell injured, and then stuck with a Freshman QB like Wesley Carroll) and have no proven backup.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Do we have any other QBs on campus? If this truly turns into a full fledged competition in August with 6 QBs on the roster, and there is no clear cut starter, then we either have stockpile QBs, or we don’t even have 1 that can separate from the rest.

Stevens should be well ahead of 2 sophomores, a Redshirt Freshman and a true Freshman.

 

[HamSammich]

Six? I’m only aware of 4. Stevens, Thompson, Mayden and Shrader

 

[MSUDC11]

I read those comments as the better passer will start, and it’s widely believed that Stevens is the better passer. Barring Keytaon taking major strides since the spring I don’t expect him to be the starter.

There is also the rumor floating around that KT may not even be available for the opener.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I’ll say this for like the 100th time on this board. Maybe this time it’ll stick. Joe Moorhead knew months ago when he signed tommy Stevens who his 2019 starting quarterback would be. It’s common sense. You don’t bring on a 5th year grad transfer to sit on the bench. I fully expect KT to be suspended for the first game, and then after that he play his 4 games and use his redshirt. That also is common sense considering he has a redshirt to burn. Some of y’all are making this out to be a competition and it’s just not. Will Moorhead say it’s a competition? Of course, he has too.

Don't care if you say it 1,000 times, so maybe this will stick. I do not think Joe will start TS just because he is a 5th year grad transfer. He will start the guy he thinks will give us the best chance to win...period. While you don't necessarily bring in said transfer to sit on the bench, you also do not hand him the job if he doesn't earn it between now and then. Joe is paid to win as much as he can with what we have. He is not going to ignore any QB on our roster as a possible starter if those guys kick *** more than TS.

Joe's obligation to TS is to give him a real opportunity to win the job, and do his best to provide TS with the resources he needs to get to his best. He owes the same to KT. He owes it to our university to start the guy who gives us the best chance to win this year, regardless of the name on the back of his jersey. If he does otherwise, he's a damned fool.

As I refuse to accept a HC of Joe's reputation would start a QB who did not perform as well as another QB, I'm going to believe whoever starts it will be because they earned the job outright, not because they have just one year left, or because Joe already made up his mind before TS ever took a snap on our team. If TS is the starter, it will be because he was at least as good as any and every other candidate.

 

[blacklistedbully]

You're being ridiculous. Moorhead will start Logan Burnett if he's the best QB this fall. The best QB will start. I'm pretty sure Moorhead already knows who that QB is, pending one of the other guys changing his mind between now and Aug. 31. And that QB is the one he recruited to be the starter this fall.

You're being ridiculous and plain argumentative. You're saying almost the same thing I am (the one who does the best between now and 8/31 will be Joe's starter), only adding to it that you think Joe (and you) already knows that will be TS before TS attends his first practice with us. I'm assuming you are basing this primarily on TS having more time practicing in Joe's system, and your belief TS is going to be a better passer, and better able to make the quick reads, make the right decisions, etc.

That may turn out to be true, but I'm not willing to assume KT won't improve enough in his 2nd year to earn it over TS. I'm also not at all sure passing isn't easier in the B10 than it is in the SEC. And anyone who is convinced TS is clearly the better passing QB , consider the number of pass attempts TS has taken in each game he played in his college career:

2016
0
2
0
0
0
1

2017
6
0
4
7
0
3
7
0

2018
0
1
4
4
0
2

I don't understand how any of you can look at how little he has thrown the ball and still be so certain he's a much better passer. There's not enough evidence, IMO to make an educated guess.

KT completed more than 50% of his passes in 6 of 16 games. TS in 6 of 20 games. KT threw 8 TD's vs 3 INT's. TS threw 4 TD's vs 1 INT. Last year KT had 6 TD's vs 1 INT. TS had 1 vs 1. Consider that last year, KT had to do it in a brand new scheme, while TS had the same system the entire time, 2 under Joe and a 3rd under the same scheme after Joe left.

Some of you think Nick ran the ball too much last year, his first in JoMo's system. Are you aware Fitz threw more than he ran 9 of 12 games? By contrast TS threw more than he ran in just 4 of 20 games, and 2 of those were where he threw exactly 1 pass.

So, based on games played, TS has been primarily a runner, yet last year KT averaged 9.4 ypc vs 6.7 for TS. So those of you who have closed-the-book on who is starting this year, what are you hanging your hat on...the pass completion % of a guy who threw more than 4 times in just 3 of 20 games played, and more than 2 times in just 7 of 20 games?

Look, I'm really glad we got Tommy, and I hope he plays up to his full potential. If that winds up being better than KT or anyone else, I damn sure hope he starts. But I absolutely do not think it is far-fetched to think Joe is going to have a very open mind as he evaluates who deserves to start this year.

 

[tired]

Not rumor. So your starting QB for State the first game of the season will be TS. Doesn't matter how good or how much KT has improved. The second game will be TS as well, and the third, and the..........well maybe KT can catch him later in the season. The guy in this thread typing novels doesn't know. Much.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I read those comments as the better passer will start, and it’s widely believed that Stevens is the better passer. Barring Keytaon taking major strides since the spring I don’t expect him to be the starter.

There is also the rumor floating around that KT may not even be available for the opener.

While he may be the better passer this year, it is hard to say so based on his college stats. IF you look at both guy's senior season in high school, TS threw for 1,895 yards with 16 TD's & 6 INT's. He rushed for 842 yds and another 10 TD's. KT was the Gatorade Player of the Year, throwing for 3,824 yards, 45 TD's and 5 INT's. KT also rushed for 1,418 yards and another 25 TD's.

Some of you guys may be writing KT off a little too soon.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Not rumor. So your starting QB for State the first game of the season will be TS. Doesn't matter how good or how much KT has improved. The second game will be TS as well, and the third, and the..........well maybe KT can catch him later in the season. The guy in this thread typing novels doesn't know. Much.

And yet you fail to counter any of what I've posted with a single fact or stat, other than informing us KT is out the first game. And I'm the one who doesn't know much?

 

[blacklistedbully]

Stevens should be well ahead of 2 sophomores, a Redshirt Freshman and a true Freshman.

While he is older, and it is true he is a grad transfer, he does not have more college game experience than KT. 20 games for TS vs 16 for KT, but KT played more snaps.

If you limit it to play in JoMO's system, then it's closer, with TS in 20 games attempting 41 passes and 76 rushes, while KT in 6 games in JoMO's system attempted 39 passes and 24 rushes.

 

[MSUDC11]

While he may be the better passer this year, it is hard to say so based on his college stats. IF you look at both guy's senior season in high school, TS threw for 1,895 yards with 16 TD's & 6 INT's. He rushed for 842 yds and another 10 TD's. KT was the Gatorade Player of the Year, throwing for 3,824 yards, 45 TD's and 5 INT's. KT also rushed for 1,418 yards and another 25 TD's.

Some of you guys may be writing KT off a little too soon.

I don’t doubt that KT is very much capable of improving from his first two years, and he still may be good QB for us eventually. But I feel incredibly confident in saying that Joe brought Stevens in with every intention of him being the starter. Yes, Keytaon has a chance of winning the job in camp if he outplays Stevens, but it would require both KT lighting it up in practice and TS being really bad in practice, neither of which is expected to happen.

It just seems pretty straight forward to me. Joe doesn’t bring in a grad transfer if he trusts KT, and Stevens doesn’t leave a QB battle at Penn State for a QB battle at a lesser program when he had other offers where he for sure would’ve been the starter. He’s here because the expectation by him and our coaching staff is that he will start.

 

[patdog]

Career passer rating:
Tommy Stevens - 148.1
Keytaon Thompson - 134.7

And Thompson's stats were padded with 1/3 of his career attempts in the game against Stephen F Austin and a rating of over 190 in that game, despite a 41% completion percentage. There's not much question who is the better passer.

 

[mount lefroy]

Or another possible translation:
"KT (& TS), it should be very clear to you both what my expectations are for #1 QB this year. Put in the necessary work to show me which of you will best meet my requirements, thus earning the job."

I don't think JoMo is going to simply assume TS is the man. I think it's speculation he will be better in those areas, primarily because of how KT performed as the backup...not how TS performed also as a backup vs different defenses. I believe KT will have every opportunity to show he has improved, as one would expect a QB to do when elevated from for-sure backup to legit contender to start and being in the 2nd year of Joe's system with the increased reps and focus on him this past off-season and this preseason that was before given to Fitz.

Let's not discount the fact that last year was KT's first exposure to JoMo's system, and even then it was as the backup to Fitz. Sure, TS looked a little better passing than KT, but TS also did not face the defenses KT did. Maybe I'm being naive, but I believe the competition truly is wide open, and if KT does a better job, he'll get what he earns.

I’d like to think that black, but the reality is that Tommy is a system guy that is more mature. Maybe KT will have learned his lesson by the time he gets his shot, but I’m going to have to see that to believe it. Tommy isn’t going to be coming in with false bravado. However he will have to be mature enough to understand that he already has an understanding of the offense that many of his offensive team mates just haven’t developed. That to me could be a pitfall for him if he gets impatient. On the other hand, if he helps teach his teammates, he could have a season that creates quite a National buzz.

I’ve resigned myself to be ready for just about any outcome. The UK and UT games are going to tell a story though. I really hope KT doesn’t give up fighting for the job if aTommy grabs too much spotlight. I do think it’s important Tommy gets pushed to continue to earn the job all season.

I do not want to see Stevens running the ball 2-3 straight times unless it’s because the defense is giving up big chunks.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Maybe. But I think it entirely possible TS came here because he did not get what he was promised at PSU, knew he had just one year to make an impression on the NFL, and figured his best chance for that, outside of PSU was to play for JoMo, where he would not have to learn a new scheme, and could play in a league with ultimate exposure. With only one year to play, taking a, "sure thing" as a starter in another offensive scheme would be a very risky strategy...more risky than trying to beat out competition here.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Nice to see a well-stated differing opinion. No nastiness, no insults. I appreciate it.

Now, if your concern is seeing TS running too much, consider that KT passed more than he ran in JoMO's system. TS ran almost twice as much as he passed in JoMo's scheme.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Career passer rating:
Tommy Stevens - 148.1
Keytaon Thompson - 134.7

And Thompson's stats were padded with 1/3 of his career attempts in the game against Stephen F Austin and a rating of over 190 in that game, despite a 41% completion percentage. There's not much question who is the better passer.

Please do provide the stats from TS's best passing games. Hell, how about any game with a sample size of passing attempts that are anything other than far too small to be relevant? To save you some time, 13 of his 20 games were two or fewer pass attempts. 1/4 of his career attempts came vs Akron & Georgia State. He never had more than 7...ever. I'll wait

Oh and that KT game was the very first game we played in the JoMo offense. Considering how much our starter, Fitz struggled in it, even in the last game, don't you think KT deserves a little break on game 1 of the JoMo era?

I'm not saying KT is the better passer. I'm saying there is not much evidence available that really suggests TS is.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Please do provide the stats from TS's best passing games. Hell, how about any game with a sample size of passing attempts that are anything other than far too small to be relevant? To save you some time, 13 of his 20 games were two or fewer pass attempts. 1/4 of his career attempts came vs Akron & Georgia State. He never had more than 7...ever. I'll wait

Oh and that KT game was the very first game we played in the JoMo offense. Considering how much our starter, Fitz struggled in it, even in the last game, don't you think KT deserves a little break on game 1 of the JoMo era?

I'm not saying KT is the better passer. I'm saying there is not much evidence available that really suggests TS is.

You're completely missing the point of the people in this thread saying TS will absolutely start the first game. RPO stated it clearly and you glossed right by it. They believe the growing rumor that KT will be suspended the first game. If true, TS will of course start over the freshmen and of course look good against ULL. He'll therefore get another start against USM and look good, and so on and so on. Unless he falls on his face later in the season there won't be a chance for KT to be the guy because he's taken himself out of the equation for game one (according to the rumor). So you can write as many long posts as you want, but that's not the point.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

All I got to say..... JoMo better have that figured out and settled with the team before game 2. Or ..... there won’t be any joy in Mudville after game 2.

 

[RPOdawg]

I’m just amazed that there’s people out there who have seen both TS and KT play and think KT is better. I’ll say it again, it’s not a competition. TS will be the 2019 QB and KT will have a shot to be the 2020 starting QB.