Question about Barnhart.....

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Front end, this isn't a defense of Barnhart. As I said in another thread, although I defended him for years, I no longer have any faith that he can right this program. So this isn't that.

But I'm curious. It's become an article of faith on this board that Barnhart is too concerned with "morals". That because of standards he has, he refused to hire Petrino, for example, or that he'll refuse to interview Briles, another example. I know Barnhart is a Christian - but that in itself hardly distinguishes him from the majority of other ADs. What has he ever said or done that make people certain what he thinks about hiring standards and morals? Someone the other day accused Barnhart of "preaching all over the place". I read a good bit about UK sports, don't recall ever seeing him "preach" in any context.

This is a guy who hired Dennis Erickson and Billy Gillispie, after all........Make a list of the most "notorious" football and basketball coaches of the last 50 years, those 2 are on the list.....

 

[lex cath]

Those guys don't count

 

[STUCKNBIG10]

Front end, this isn't a defense of Barnhart. As I said in another thread, although I defended him for years, I no longer have any faith that he can right this program. So this isn't that.

But I'm curious. It's become an article of faith on this board that Barnhart is too concerned with "morals". That because of standards he has, he refused to hire Petrino, for example, or that he'll refuse to interview Briles, another example. I know Barnhart is a Christian - but that in itself hardly distinguishes him from the majority of other ADs. What has he ever said or done that make people certain what he thinks about hiring standards and morals? Someone the other day accused Barnhart of "preaching all over the place". I read a good bit about UK sports, don't recall ever seeing him "preach" in any context.

This is a guy who hired Dennis Erickson and Billy Gillispie, after all........Make a list of the most "notorious" football and basketball coaches of the last 50 years, those 2 are on the list.....

I think your potential rebuttals (Erickson and Gillispie) are sound, but I think that comes mostly from stories from former players and such who have told stories about Barnhart always trying to "show them the way" even when they didn't ask for his counsel. It's also clear that he thought he (and / or UK) were too good to even sniff Petrino when he was available even after Petrino made it clear that he wanted the job. Look who's having the last laugh...

 

[jgraf1]

UK wasn't the only SEC school to ignore Petrino. Wasn't there rumors about an SEC pact where they wouldn't hire him? I thought I read that on this board when he wasn't interviewed. South Carolina, Florida, Vandy, Missouri, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, Miami, USC, etc. all didn't even consider the guy. He's a great coach, but even if Barnhart hired him, who is to say he wouldn't have left for UL the next year after Charlie Strong left.

 

[brianpoe]

We suspended football players for blocking too hard during SEC games...

 

[Chadrock]

We suspended football players for blocking too hard during SEC games...

Yep, how soon we forget...

 

[catfan111]

We're also not in the middle of a NCAA IRS and FBI investigation either.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

I think your potential rebuttals (Erickson and Gillispie) are sound, but I think that comes mostly from stories from former players and such who have told stories about Barnhart always trying to "show them the way" even when they didn't ask for his counsel. It's also clear that he thought he (and / or UK) were too good to even sniff Petrino when he was available even after Petrino made it clear that he wanted the job. Look who's having the last laugh...

First point is a good one, I'd forgotten that. But second point - it wasn't just Barnhart that refused to interview Petrino. Heard Finebaum the other day say Petrino "tried desperately" to interview with Auburn and they wouldn't even talk to him. Wasn't there a rumor going around about him being blacklisted in the SEC?

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

We suspended football players for blocking too hard during SEC games...

heh, well, yeah - but surely Barnhart isn't telling Stoops who to discipline for on-field conduct?

 

[brianpoe]

heh, well, yeah - but surely Barnhart isn't telling Stoops who to discipline for on-field conduct?

 

[BlueRunner11]

I think it's mostly the Petrino thing. It was just such an obvious home run to many of us fans, that it just didn't make any sense to not even consider him unless he took issue with his personal life which comes across a tad self righteous to us fans.

Personally, I just think he doesn't like him. Simple is that. He didn't want to work with him and didn't want him to be part of the University. I don't think it has anything to do with his faith. Not to judge the man, but he obviously didn't let his faith take the lead on the BCG hire who had his own skeletons in his closet.

I think he hires people he likes quite honestly. People he can work with. Cal being the exception but of course he never even considered Cal two years prior and then does a 180 and was all on board when his own job was on the line for the BCG fiasco and had to have that job saving home run hire. Has more to do with self interest (as most our jobs do) and nothing to do directly with faith or morals imo.

 

[WildcatDJ]

Pretty sure one of the former players spoke about Barnhart trying to make the players into good young men...the player went on to say something about football players needing a mean streak, and he felt like that was taken away. That is not word for word, just a generalization.

Pretty sure it was Marcus McClinton that was speaking on this...

 

[allabouttheUK]

Two different jobs, but Edward T. Foote II reminds me of Barney.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Dude, surely not. Have you heard that, or are you just assuming? For off the field stuff, I can an AD interjecting. But for that?

 

[DACats86]

We're also not in the middle of a NCAA IRS and FBI investigation either.

None of which have anything to do with Petrino and UofL football... Apparently, Petrino only cheats on his wife, not with the NCAA...

 

[brianpoe]

Dude, surely not. Have you heard that, or are you just assuming? For off the field stuff, I can an AD interjecting. But for that?

You think this guy was suspending players for BLOCKING too hard at Florida State????

I have zero doubts where this came from.

 

[theoledog]

Pretty sure one of the former players spoke about Barnhart trying to make the players into good young men...the player went on to say something about football players needing a mean streak, and he felt like that was taken away. That is not word for word, just a generalization.

Pretty sure it was Marcus McClinton that was speaking on this...

yes... i remember that....

but... he didn't even interview BP... he did interview BCG... and i'll forgo comment.
i also have lost all confidence that our AD can hire coaches... yes Cal... 2nd time around....
Lee Todd didn't like/want Cal 1st go-round... so if you believe that then apparently trump cards get pulled.....

we're not as good as WKU... think on that.... they haven't been D1 all that long....

 

[fuzz77]

Cal being the exception but of course he never even considered Cal two years prior and then does a 180 and was all on board when his own job was on the line for the BCG fiasco and had to have that job saving home run hire.

How many times does it have to be stated that Lee Todd specifically removed Cal's name from consideration in 2007?
"I removed Cal's name from the list." quoting Lee Todd. Todd did so under counsel from Sandy Bell who nearly quit when Cal was hired.

 

[brianpoe]

Sandy Bell who nearly quit when Cal was hired.

No.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Front end, this isn't a defense of Barnhart. As I said in another thread, although I defended him for years, I no longer have any faith that he can right this program. So this isn't that.

But I'm curious. It's become an article of faith on this board that Barnhart is too concerned with "morals". That because of standards he has, he refused to hire Petrino, for example, or that he'll refuse to interview Briles, another example. I know Barnhart is a Christian - but that in itself hardly distinguishes him from the majority of other ADs. What has he ever said or done that make people certain what he thinks about hiring standards and morals? Someone the other day accused Barnhart of "preaching all over the place". I read a good bit about UK sports, don't recall ever seeing him "preach" in any context.

This is a guy who hired Dennis Erickson and Billy Gillispie, after all........Make a list of the most "notorious" football and basketball coaches of the last 50 years, those 2 are on the list.....

That is a perfect point. Saying Barnhart is this or that is simply message board material.
It goes with the old saying that if you say something enough and get it repeated enough, it will become the reality when it is simply an opinion.
if a poster on here is well liked and thought of highly says Barnhart is a great human being, then soon enough others will follow suit.
I do not know him personally and cannot say he is or isn't a specific type. But like you said, he hired Gillispie, he passed over Calapari because of concerns, then came back and hired him, he hired Brooks, Joker and now Stoops. Nothing is to say they are good, bad, or in-between.
Themedia also plays a big part in what we think of a person without regard to reality.

 

[fuzz77]

Pretty sure one of the former players spoke about Barnhart trying to make the players into good young men...the player went on to say something about football players needing a mean streak, and he felt like that was taken away. That is not word for word, just a generalization.

Pretty sure it was Marcus McClinton that was speaking on this...

One thing that comes from the AD's office is encouragement for the players...from all sports to get involved in community service. UK is not alone or unique in doing so.

If McClinton or anyone thinks that takes away from their playing ability then they are just looking for excuses. If you look at any of the UK players in the NFL then most all of them have continued giving and doing community service as do many other college and professional athletes.

 

[BlueRunner11]

How many times does it have to be stated that Lee Todd specifically removed Cal's name from consideration in 2007?
"I removed Cal's name from the list." quoting Lee Todd. Todd did so under counsel from Sandy Bell who nearly quit when Cal was hired.

I guess at least one more time. Could you share your links.

 

[BARBQGRILLER]

UK wasn't the only SEC school to ignore Petrino. Wasn't there rumors about an SEC pact where they wouldn't hire him? I thought I read that on this board when he wasn't interviewed. South Carolina, Florida, Vandy, Missouri, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, Miami, USC, etc. all didn't even consider the guy. He's a great coach, but even if Barnhart hired him, who is to say he wouldn't have left for UL the next year after Charlie Strong left.

Because you make it like Jurich did, a huge payout to UofL if someone wants Petrino before his contract is up .

 

[fuzz77]

I guess at least one more time. Could you share your links.

Sure thing.
The quote I gave you was from the press conference when Cal was hired. Find the transcript to that press conference and it will be there. Below are two articles from CBS and SI...I've pointed out for you the paragraphs that clearly show the concern that Todd had about the hire. Notice the focus on Todd around the hiring of Cal?

"Simply put, there was -- as former Kentucky president Lee Todd once described it -- lots of "smoke" around Calipari and, back then, Kentucky officials did not believe they needed to hire somebody with that kind of reputation. So they completely passed on Calipari in favor of a less-accomplished and less-sophisticated coach whom Calipari had just eliminated from the NCAA Tournament, and that's when, I know, Calipari started to genuinely wonder whether he'd ever make it to the so-called right side of the rope"

"But relationships can be sticky things, and few programs know that better than Kentucky's. The school has been on probation in every decade for the last 60 years, and its football program began serving a three-year sentence in 2002, just after Todd took over as president. He vowed that under his watch it wouldn't happen again. In 2007, when athletic director Mitch Barnhart brought up Calipari, Todd was so put off by Memphis's reliance on, as he puts it, "bogus high schools"—transcript-padding prep schools that the NCAA has since cracked down on—that he barred any contact. "I was uncomfortable enough," says Todd, "that I wasn't ready to do that.""

You could have just as easily done the research. One of the things I really dislike about message boards regardless if you are talking sports or politics is that too many people simply repeat, accept what they hear...especially if it confirms what they want to think and never seek to research independent sources.

 

[catfan111]

But but fuzz this can't be right. Everyone on this message board knows that Mitch is the boss and he answers to no one and people above him don't tell him who or who not to hire.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Sure thing.
The quote I gave you was from the press conference when Cal was hired. Find the transcript to that press conference and it will be there. Below are two articles from CBS and SI...I've pointed out for you the paragraphs that clearly show the concern that Todd had about the hire. Notice the focus on Todd around the hiring of Cal?

"Simply put, there was -- as former Kentucky president Lee Todd once described it -- lots of "smoke" around Calipari and, back then, Kentucky officials did not believe they needed to hire somebody with that kind of reputation. So they completely passed on Calipari in favor of a less-accomplished and less-sophisticated coach whom Calipari had just eliminated from the NCAA Tournament, and that's when, I know, Calipari started to genuinely wonder whether he'd ever make it to the so-called right side of the rope"

"But relationships can be sticky things, and few programs know that better than Kentucky's. The school has been on probation in every decade for the last 60 years, and its football program began serving a three-year sentence in 2002, just after Todd took over as president. He vowed that under his watch it wouldn't happen again. In 2007, when athletic director Mitch Barnhart brought up Calipari, Todd was so put off by Memphis's reliance on, as he puts it, "bogus high schools"—transcript-padding prep schools that the NCAA has since cracked down on—that he barred any contact. "I was uncomfortable enough," says Todd, "that I wasn't ready to do that.""

You could have just as easily done the research. One of the things I really dislike about message boards regardless if you are talking sports or politics is that too many people simply repeat, accept what they hear...especially if it confirms what they want to think and never seek to research independent sources.

Not sure this article proves that Mitch wanted Cal but only quotes Todd as saying no. Only states he's name came up, I assume with many others as well. It does confirm that Cal was def not an option in 2007 and yet a 180 was done by hiring him in 2009. In fact Todd is on record saying he was certain Cal was clean. What changed? Did Cal's baggage become less or just less important now that the heat was on and a home run hire was a MUST

Maybe this Stoops experiment will make a home run hire a must for Mitch and company this time as well.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Not sure this article proves that Mitch wanted Cal but only quotes Todd as saying no. Only states he's name came up, I assume with many others as well. It does confirm that Cal was def not an option in 2007 and yet a 180 was done by hiring him in 2009. In fact Todd is on record saying he was certain Cal was clean. What changed? Did Cal's baggage become less or just less important now that the heat was on and a home run hire was a MUST

Maybe this Stoops experiment will make a home run hire a must for Mitch and company this time as well.

My only point was morals, values, integrity, character are all wonderful attributes to be had but usually end up taking a back seat to self interest and preservation and whether Mitch, Todd, or both...I think it did this time as well.

 

[brianpoe]

Todd covering for Mitch is not a huge surprise.

Do you use your ukathletics email account to logon here Fuzz?

 

[bthaunert]

My guess on the Erickson and BCG comparisons is that they were quite a few years removed from anything negative that happened with them. Erickson left Miami in 1994 to go to the NFL and Miami was hit with probation (Erickson was cleared of any wrong-doing) and 5 years later, he was hired at Oregon State. As for BCG, he was arrested for a DUI in 2003 (which was thrown out) and hired at UK 4 years later.

Petrino was involved in the motorcycle accident in April 2012 and was fired. We hired Stoops 7 months later. Briles was fired in May and I just don't see Mitch hiring him 5 months later.

I think that is the biggest difference in the scenarios imo...not saying I agree, just believe that is what it is.

 

[fuzz77]

Not sure this article proves that Mitch wanted Cal but only quotes Todd as saying no. Only states he's name came up, I assume with many others as well. It does confirm that Cal was def not an option in 2007 and yet a 180 was done by hiring him in 2009. In fact Todd is on record saying he was certain Cal was clean. What changed? Did Cal's baggage become less or just less important now that the heat was on and a home run hire was a MUST

Maybe this Stoops experiment will make a home run hire a must for Mitch and company this time as well.

The information is out there if you care to do the research.

 

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

I joke about him having a holier than thou attitude (which he does) and the fact that he thinks college sports is a charity when in actuality it's a multi-million dollar business. He has consistently shown with his hires that he would rather hire a square that's coaching ability is average than a guy with an ego or some baggage that's a great coach. That's my beef and that's where these things about his morals come up (that and the fact that multiple players have come out over the years talking about how players are "domesticated" by Barnhart with the culture he has created over there).

My bigger beef is the fact that the guy is incompetent, plain and simple. I don't care if he goes to church ten times a week or if he goes out and sleezes around, I'm more concerned about getting an AD that is competent. When you're trying to hire a football coach at Kentucky you're going to have to think outside the box and be willing to take some coaches with baggage. Barnhart is capable of neither. That's my beef.

 

[Poetax]

First point is a good one, I'd forgotten that. But second point - it wasn't just Barnhart that refused to interview Petrino. Heard Finebaum the other day say Petrino "tried desperately" to interview with Auburn and they wouldn't even talk to him. Wasn't there a rumor going around about him being blacklisted in the SEC?

If I remember right Western Ky may have been his best offer.

 

[Stenchymouse]

The fact that UK won't even CONSIDER a transfer from another school while UofL takes them all tells me that Barnhardt is involved with that...

I think that several things like lead people to this conclusion.

 

[Poetax]

The fact that UK won't even CONSIDER a transfer from another school while UofL takes them all tells me that Barnhardt is involved with that...

I think that several things like lead people to this conclusion.

And you would have to include Sandy Bell in there on transfers.

 

[fuzz77]

that and the fact that multiple players have come out over the years talking about how players are "domesticated" by Barnhart with the culture he has created over there

Link?

The notion is quite ridiculous. There are about 450 athletes at UK. If you think Mitch is spending that much time with each of them then you're clueless to the workload of an AD.
Add that UK has been in the upper half of the league for players arrested for the last several years. They don't come across as all that "domesticated".

 

[Stenchymouse]

And you would have to include Sandy Bell in there on transfers.

Not unless grades are an issue...

 

[Longtrip]

We're also not in the middle of a NCAA IRS and FBI investigation either.

Sorry, but that is not justification for his salary ($900,000+ / yr) given what he has actually done for the football and basketball programs (which is more harm than good).

 

[Poetax]

Not unless grades are an issue...

Her duties are way wider then that. She even handles walk ons. Look at basketball, she helps and investigates transfers for Cal. Besides grades are a part of all of that too for eligibility.

 

[Stenchymouse]

Her duties are way wider then that. She even handles walk ons. Look at basketball, she helps and investigates transfers for Cal. Besides grades are a part of all of that too for eligibility.

That doesn't mean that she can nix a potential transfer just because she thinks he's a "bad boy".

 

[sluggercatfan]

We're also not in the middle of a NCAA IRS and FBI investigation either.

Which has nothing to do with football or hiring a winning coach.