Question about covid stimulus payments

[wsjmsu75]

Do you have to file your 2020 income taxes before you can get the $1,400 check? Thought I heard somebody say that on tv, but I find that hard to believe. Seems like they would just look at 2019 income if 2020 has not been filed. Anybody know?

 

[LawDawg97]

They look at the last return on file

So if your 2019 puts you over the threshold but your 2020 was lower, get it filed.

In any case, AGI from a tax return is such a 17ing stupid way to determine need.

A trust fund baby living off inheritance with little AGI is going to get a check, but a recent grad who nets 80k but may be drowning in student loan debt, medical expenses, taking care of elderly parents, etc. is above their arbitrary limit.

Good work Congress. At 75k you need it, but at 80k you don’t. Nevermind that they might’ve made that last year but got laid off in December. Sorry, but I have a client in this situation. Rant over.

 

[Dawg1976]

I thought I heard its based on 2019 but don't know for sure. I haven't even looked at my 2020 taxes.

 

[wsjmsu75]

I just Googled it, and yes they will use 2019 if 2020 has not been filed. That's what I thought.

 

[wsjmsu75]

So if your 2019 puts you over the threshold but your 2020 was lower, get it filed.

In any case, AGI from a tax return is such a 17ing stupid way to determine need.

A trust fund baby living off inheritance with little AGI is going to get a check, but a recent grad who nets 80k but may be drowning in student loan debt, medical expenses, taking care of elderly parents, etc. is above their arbitrary limit.

Good work Congress. At 75k you need it, but at 80k you don’t. Nevermind that they might’ve made that last year but got laid off in December. Sorry, but I have a client in this situation. Rant over.

I agree with this, however it would be impossible for the Feds to administer true need based eligibility, at least not in a timely manner for getting the checks out.

Edited to add- in a perfect world, these checks would only go to people who were at least somewhat impacted financially by the pandemic. But again, it would be pretty much impossible to process the eligibility in a timely manner.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

So if your 2019 puts you over the threshold but your 2020 was lower, get it filed.

In any case, AGI from a tax return is such a 17ing stupid way to determine need.

A trust fund baby living off inheritance with little AGI is going to get a check, but a recent grad who nets 80k but may be drowning in student loan debt, medical expenses, taking care of elderly parents, etc. is above their arbitrary limit.

Good work Congress. At 75k you need it, but at 80k you don’t. Nevermind that they might’ve made that last year but got laid off in December. Sorry, but I have a client in this situation. Rant over.

So if you make $75k in Little Rock you get it, but if you make $80k in San Fran you don’t? Ouch.

 

[LawDawg97]

My thought was have people fill out a one page Personal Financial Statement just like you do for a loan. One page. Assets - liabilities = Net worth, last 6 months wages, current financial status. That’s it. You certify to accuracy of it and if you’re lying you face fraud charges. Hesitant to give that info? No stimulus. Have a formula for net worth/income/job status and give a sliding scale stimulus based on that.

If I can get loan approval in 5 minutes I’m sure we could do the same for stimulus approval. But it’s the federal govt we’re talking about, so yeah the best way is just go deeper in debt throwing money at a **** ton of people regardless of need because at least it keeps the economy rocking. I guess rant wasn’t over.

 

[wsjmsu75]

My thought was have people fill out a one page Personal Financial Statement just like you do for a loan. One page. Assets - liabilities = Net worth, last 6 months wages, current financial status. That’s it. You certify to accuracy of it and if you’re lying you face fraud charges. Hesitant to give that info? No stimulus. Have a formula for net worth/income/job status and give a sliding scale stimulus based on that.

If I can get loan approval in 5 minutes I’m sure we could do the same for stimulus approval. But it’s the federal govt we’re talking about, so yeah the best way is just go deeper in debt throwing money at a **** ton of people regardless of need because at least it keeps the economy rocking. I guess rant wasn’t over.

Well, as I said above, ideally it would be for people below a certain income and net worth, who could also prove that their income/net worth went down significantly because of the pandemic. That last part could get complicated.

 

[GloryDawg]

It is very possible that someone made a lot of money in 2019 and would not qualify for the stimulus. In 2020 they may not have made as much money as in 2019 because of the virus shut down. If that is the case you needed to do your 2020 so you would qualify for the stimulus. If not it was going to be based on 2019. Also if you had a dependent in 2019 but now not a dependent in 2020 because of age, you would want to wait until the check went out before doing your tax. That child may not have a 2019 tax return because of school and you are claiming him but in 2020 he had a job and he claimed him self. If that's the case you should do your tax and he should do his for 2020 before the checks go out. A another scenario is if you were married in 2019 and made less than the 150K but in 2020 you were widow or divorce and your AGI is over the 75K mark you might want to wait until checks go out before doing 2020 tax. It is also possible you made more money in 2020 than 2019 and the 2020 tax return puts you over the AGI limits. If so wait to do your taxes. It is based on the most current tax return. You have to put some thought into it.

 

[dog12]

My thought was have people fill out a one page Personal Financial Statement just like you do for a loan. One page. Assets - liabilities = Net worth, last 6 months wages, current financial status. That’s it. You certify to accuracy of it and if you’re lying you face fraud charges. Hesitant to give that info? No stimulus. Have a formula for net worth/income/job status and give a sliding scale stimulus based on that.

If I can get loan approval in 5 minutes I’m sure we could do the same for stimulus approval. But it’s the federal govt we’re talking about, so yeah the best way is just go deeper in debt throwing money at a **** ton of people regardless of need because at least it keeps the economy rocking. I guess rant wasn’t over.

Your idea makes too much sense.

Logic and accountability have no place in Congress.

Also, more generously giving away free money without limit permits Democrats to buy votes for the next election.

They want to keep their voters happy . . . and remind them to vote Democrat in every election.

 

[Grove Sh*tter]

There is a relatively new podcast called "All In" that discusses money, markets, tech, and politics from 4 different angles. They discuss the effects of these stimulus bills on the latest one (march 5), and it's very insightful.

The hosts are Chamath Palihapitiya, jason calacanis, david sacks, and david friedberg.

 

[The Peeper]

This all day long. My wife, our daughter nor I missed a single days work during all of this. Our elderly parents stayed home during all of this and I'm sure actually saved money by not being out running around. Yet all 5 of us keep getting these "free" checks from the guvmint because they know whats best for us. On the other hand, my sons salary was cut by 20%, I can see it for him but for the rest of us, it doesn't make any sense. The part about buying future votes is 100% correct too as is loosening up border openings and immigration.

 

[M R DAWGS]

Your idea makes too much sense.

Logic and accountability have no place in Congress.

Also, more generously giving away free money without limit permits Democrats to buy votes for the next election.

They want to keep their voters happy . . . and remind them to vote Democrat in every election.

This^^^

It’s all part of the plan. Dems aren’t stupid.

 

[dorndawg]

Your idea makes too much sense.

Logic and accountability have no place in Congress.

Also, more generously giving away free money without limit permits Democrats to buy votes for the next election.

They want to keep their voters happy . . . and remind them to vote Democrat in every election.

You're... exactly right?? "Doing **** voters overwhelmingly like" is a solid way to win the popular vote in 7 out of the last 8 Presidential elections.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

There is a phase out but it is much narrower than the first one. Single between $75 g and $80 g, you get partial but it drops of quickly to $0 at $80 g.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

It has been particularly beneficial to be a single income family with kids during this time, as it relates to stimulus. Thanks fishwater.

 

[GloryDawg]

with all this money flooding into the economy I worry supply will not be able to keep up with demand. We could end up seeing some serious inflation. A family of four will get 5400.00. I don't know if there is a cap. A family with four kids will get 8400.00.

 

[Coast Dawg]

Question for those of you informed:

How does AGI work in regards to this stimulus qualification in this scenario: married couple filing jointly in 2019 with two young children as dependents. AGI was $200k

 

[J-Dawg]

You're... exactly right?? "Doing **** voters overwhelmingly like" is a solid way to win the popular vote in 7 out of the last 8 Presidential elections.

If it's simply doing what voters like, why stop at $1,400? Why not $100k? $1 mill?

Just because you like something doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do in the long run. Pandering for votes now with no regard for future ramifications.

 

[LawDawg97]

You get nothing. Not even for the dependents

Question for those of you informed:

How does AGI work in regards to this stimulus qualification in this scenario: married couple filing jointly in 2019 with two young children as dependents. AGI was $200k

$150k and under gets it. $160k and over completely phased out. That’s why if your AGI for 2020 is any lower than 160k go ahead and file.

Isn’t that a kick in the teeth? If you’re over 160k you just sent via your taxes $7,000 to your neighbors with 3 kids that make 150k. Very fair.***

 

[dorndawg]

If it's simply doing what voters like, why stop at $1,400? Why not $100k? $1 mill?

Just because you like something doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do in the long run. Pandering for votes now with no regard for future ramifications.

IDK, maybe it's because we have sane, reasonable grownups in charge now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mobile Bay]

If it's simply doing what voters like, why stop at $1,400? Why not $100k? $1 mill?

Just because you like something doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do in the long run. Pandering for votes now with no regard for future ramifications.

There is a reason the founders set up the country to be insulated from the whim of the mob. The 17th amendment needs to be repealed.

 

[dorndawg]

There is a reason the founders set up the country to be insulated from the whim of the mob. The 17th amendment needs to be repealed.

Authoritarian says what?

 

[johnson86-1]

I agree with this, however it would be impossible for the Feds to administer true need based eligibility, at least not in a timely manner for getting the checks out.

Edited to add- in a perfect world, these checks would only go to people who were at least somewhat impacted financially by the pandemic. But again, it would be pretty much impossible to process the eligibility in a timely manner.

Time constraints were a reasonableish justification for the first stimulus checks. That's no justification for a second set of circumstances.

The reality is our savings rate is through the roof (for the US at least; still not that high in the grand scheme of things). There is already souped up unemployment. They could have beefed up TANF to make it available to more people and maybe at higher rates. They could have maybe put in a loan deferral program for loans backed by the federal government so somebody that made good money but took a hit due to covid doesn't have to lose their home or SBA backed business.

This is just buying votes in a dumb way. But, as dumb as it is, the costs of the checks are dwarfed by the special interest handouts, so I guess in that sense it's a relatively cheap way to buy votes.

 

[dorndawg]

$150k and under gets it. $160k and over completely phased out. That’s why if your AGI for 2020 is any lower than 160k go ahead and file.

Isn’t that a kick in the teeth? If you’re over 160k you just sent via your taxes $7,000 to your neighbors with 3 kids that make 150k. Very fair.***

I generally agree with your assessment here. There's a cohort of voters who got 2 stimulus checks under donnie who won't under Biden. Frustratingly, many of these voters hail from the very same suburban areas that put Biden over the top. I guess this somehow made Joe Manchin happy.

 

[dorndawg]

Time constraints were a reasonableish justification for the first stimulus checks. That's no justification for a second set of circumstances.

The reality is our savings rate is through the roof (for the US at least; still not that high in the grand scheme of things). There is already souped up unemployment. They could have beefed up TANF to make it available to more people and maybe at higher rates. They could have maybe put in a loan deferral program for loans backed by the federal government so somebody that made good money but took a hit due to covid doesn't have to lose their home or SBA backed business.

This is just buying votes in a dumb way. But, as dumb as it is, the costs of the checks are dwarfed by the special interest handouts, so I guess in that sense it's a relatively cheap way to buy votes.

Inasmuch as conservatives have actual policy ideas/beliefs these days, isn't a key one "Citizens deserve to keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars"?

 

[Mobile Bay]

Authoritarian says what?

Read Federalist number 10 by James Madison.

 

[Pars]

Yes Democrats buying votes again
I’ve gotten three stimulus checks in my life
1 from Bush jr
& 2 from trump
damn vote buying democrats

 

[dorndawg]

Yes Democrats buying votes again
I’ve gotten three stimulus checks in my life
1 from Bush jr
& 2 from trump
damn vote buying democrats

 

[johnson86-1]

Authoritarian says what?

^^^Doesn't understand what a republic or federalism is^^^

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Because in December, Trump himself also came out in favor of $2,000 total instead of the $600 that was granted in the second go-around. This is just making up the difference.

Link: Here.

 

[dorndawg]

^^^Doesn't understand what a republic or federalism is^^^

Understand them fine, thx. Which Americans do you not want voting?

 

[Dawgzilla]

with all this money flooding into the economy I worry supply will not be able to keep up with demand. We could end up seeing some serious inflation. A family of four will get 5400.00. I don't know if there is a cap. A family with four kids will get 8400.00.

Then they also get the Child Tax Credit. Hardly anyone is talking about this, but depending upon the age of those kids, your family with 3+ kids will get $900 per month for the next 12 months. $10,800 to go with the $8,400 stimulus. This will help a lot of families, but it goes to families making up to $170,000. (Starts phasing out at $150,000).

 

[Mobile Bay]

Understand them fine, thx. Which Americans do you not want voting?

It's been a while. I can't tell if this is a strawman argument, or a red herring. Perhaps a bit of both.

 

[johnson86-1]

Inasmuch as conservatives have actual policy ideas/beliefs these days, isn't a key one "Citizens deserve to keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars"?

It is but part of that is a values issue and part of it is an incentive issue. Just spraying federal tax dollars at people on an ad hoc basis without a strong tie to earnings doesn't accomplish either.

Since republicans now have completely abandoned the idea of paying for government spending, the democrats could have gotten an annual $1,400 reduction in taxes (probably not to the extent it woudl be refundable) and elevated child tax credits (probably partially refundable) on a permanent basis, but they understand incentives also and they want the money hose disconnected from earnings.

 

[dorndawg]

It is but part of that is a values issue and part of it is an incentive issue. Just spraying federal tax dollars at people on an ad hoc basis without a strong tie to earnings doesn't accomplish either.

Since republicans now have completely abandoned the idea of paying for government spending, the democrats could have gotten an annual $1,400 reduction in taxes (probably not to the extent it woudl be refundable) and elevated child tax credits (probably partially refundable) on a permanent basis, but they understand incentives also and they want the money hose disconnected from earnings.

For folks making in the upper incomes who were able to rock on during pandemic, I agree at least in part here. BUT, millions of Americans are in desperate need of cash and present a more pressing policy goal than parsing down precisely who should get what. This 3rd round of stimulus (along with the prior 2) makes headway towards accomplishing that.

 

[047Dog]

So if your 2019 puts you over the threshold but your 2020 was lower, get it filed.

In any case, AGI from a tax return is such a 17ing stupid way to determine need.

A trust fund baby living off inheritance with little AGI is going to get a check, but a recent grad who nets 80k but may be drowning in student loan debt, medical expenses, taking care of elderly parents, etc. is above their arbitrary limit.

Good work Congress. At 75k you need it, but at 80k you don’t. Nevermind that they might’ve made that last year but got laid off in December. Sorry, but I have a client in this situation. Rant over.

Yes, and in another case, if you are divorced and you alternate claiming kids each year you should determine which one you need to have on file.

In my case, I claimed 2 of my kids on my taxes for 2020. But since the stimulus payments last year were based on 2019 returns my ex got the payments when they went out. I was able to get the stimulus money for myself when I filed my taxes, but I wanted to make sure I went ahead and got my 2020 taxes on file so I would get the benefit up front when this new stimulus goes out.

 

[eckie1]

Omg....

IDK, maybe it's because we have sane, reasonable grownups in charge now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Name ONE? Just one.

Wow.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Name ONE? Just one.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Then they also get the Child Tax Credit. Hardly anyone is talking about this, but depending upon the age of those kids, your family with 3+ kids will get $900 per month for the next 12 months. $10,800 to go with the $8,400 stimulus. This will help a lot of families, but it goes to families making up to $170,000. (Starts phasing out at $150,000).

Yeah this is a weird one. I get my current child tax credit when I get my tax refund (which is most all of it since I try to keep it around a 0 refund as far as what I pay in vs. what I get in April). With this, I'm curious if I'll get it throughout the year or in April, since it's just an expansion of the existing credit.