Why was MSU located in Starkville given that Ole Miss was already in north MS? I know I've heard some on here gripe about the fact that it was, but I don't know that I've ever heard an explanation. One of my customers (and also MSU grad) was asking. He is from AL originally and claims Auburn was located where it is due to the influence of a powerful politician.
Question for MSU History Buffs (non-sports)
- Thread starter jwbigcreek
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Why was MSU located in Starkville given that Ole Miss was already in north MS? I know I've heard some on here gripe about the fact that it was, but I don't know that I've ever heard an explanation. One of my customers (and also MSU grad) was asking. He is from AL originally and claims Auburn was located where it is due to the influence of a powerful politician.
The land-grant institution was originally planned to be located in Oxford, since the Univussity were already there.
Yet, the plantation owners who sent their sons to UM didn't want them exposed to the working-class people expected to attend such a place.
Therefore, the powers that be cast about for another locale, and landed on Starkville.
That's the short version.
My GGrandfather, one of those plantation boys, graduated from UM in 1878, so I can believe that story.
RCD
Yet, the plantation owners who sent their sons to UM didn't want them exposed to the working-class people expected to attend such a place.
Therefore, the powers that be cast about for another locale, and landed on Starkville.
That's the short version.
My GGrandfather, one of those plantation boys, graduated from UM in 1878, so I can believe that story.
RCD
The power's that be wanted the universities to located in small comunities. Plus if soil or farming had anything to do with it, I think it would have been put in the Delta. I also heard that originally Ole Miss was going to be built in Sharon Miss but it was too close to Canton and Canton was too big.It was most likely BS but I have heard it many times.
I thought you were in the inaugural graduating class and could give a first-hand account. Just kidding & glad you made it through the storm/power outage.
that Stephen D. Lee bought the land from the Choctaw Indians for four pocketknives, a few colorful beads and some cheese and the only demand that they had was that we didn't build anything on the burial mounds, which is where Scott Field is to this day.
They promised pain, agony, sorrow, and gnashing of teeth if anything was ever built there.
They promised pain, agony, sorrow, and gnashing of teeth if anything was ever built there.
Elitest snobbery ruled back then, too.
http://www.reflector-online.com/2.13174/msu-ole-miss-rivalry-explained-1.1781762
http://www.reflector-online.com/2.13174/msu-ole-miss-rivalry-explained-1.1781762
<span style="font-style: italic;">Maroon and White: Mississippi State University 1878-2003</span> I feel especially able to answer this question.
It was initially considered to put State in the southern part of the state, but that was thrown out due to the lack of quality soil in the area. In the end, the two finalists were Meridian and Starkville. It was a five member panel making the decision, including W.B. Montgomery of Starkville (Sonny Montgomery's grandfather). It is widely accepted that his influence is what led to the school being placed in its current location.
Now, a there's a little more legend to the story than that. Rumor has it that the board had pretty much decided that the school would be placed in Meridian. W.B. Montgomery, on the other hand, had promised the people of Starkville that he would come through for them and deliver the school. This being the case, he went to another member of the board and said (something to the effect of) "look, I promised the people of Starkville that I would deliver the school there. That's obviously not going to happen, so would you please just vote with me so it won't look so bad? It'll still be 3-2 for Meridian, and I can save a little face with the folks in Starkville."
The trick was that W.B. Montgomery did this to TWO other members of the board, each in private.
Again, the last part is legend. But, it is generally accepted that the reason MSU is in Starkville and not Meridian is due to W.B. Montgomery's influence, one way or another.
It was initially considered to put State in the southern part of the state, but that was thrown out due to the lack of quality soil in the area. In the end, the two finalists were Meridian and Starkville. It was a five member panel making the decision, including W.B. Montgomery of Starkville (Sonny Montgomery's grandfather). It is widely accepted that his influence is what led to the school being placed in its current location.
Now, a there's a little more legend to the story than that. Rumor has it that the board had pretty much decided that the school would be placed in Meridian. W.B. Montgomery, on the other hand, had promised the people of Starkville that he would come through for them and deliver the school. This being the case, he went to another member of the board and said (something to the effect of) "look, I promised the people of Starkville that I would deliver the school there. That's obviously not going to happen, so would you please just vote with me so it won't look so bad? It'll still be 3-2 for Meridian, and I can save a little face with the folks in Starkville."
The trick was that W.B. Montgomery did this to TWO other members of the board, each in private.
Again, the last part is legend. But, it is generally accepted that the reason MSU is in Starkville and not Meridian is due to W.B. Montgomery's influence, one way or another.
However, at the inception of the program they were given the opportunity to take up the land grant education in agriculture and mechanics/engineering for the state of Mississippi, but they could not generate enough interest from the students enrolled and the programs were dropped and subsequently Mississippi State was formed.
From the beginning, they've had very weak programs in the practical sciences and quite frankly have wanted nothing to do with them.
From the beginning, they've had very weak programs in the practical sciences and quite frankly have wanted nothing to do with them.
I had been told many years ago, that the level of rain fall was thekey factor, due to the Ag.
Seems Starkville had the highest level in the state.
Anyway I bought it.
Seems Starkville had the highest level in the state.
Anyway I bought it.
Indian Burial Ground located just northeast of Malfunction Junction.
Not confirmed but Malfunction Junction was thought to have also been a part of the burial ground.
Not confirmed but Malfunction Junction was thought to have also been a part of the burial ground.
Today, while Meridian isn't as much of a "railroad town", it's still famous for its booze and floozies.jakldawg said:
Seems like I remember that during my first year at ECCC in Decatur some of the local guys took us out onto a back road somewhere between Union and Decatur and there was a monument/plaque located next to the edge of the road that said something to the effect that "this site was selected as a potential location for MSU; however, the vote to locate the school here failed by 1 vote"...It said much more than that but we didn't have cell phones back then so the memory is all I have.
Thelocationof Black Bear U. was between Oxford and the now non-existent Montgomery County town of Middleton (which is basically now present day Winona).The legend goes that Oxford won out by 1 vote in the legistlature. </p>
State was placed in Starkville for 3 main reasons: Railroad access, Fertile soil, and lack of nightlife. Story I learned in a class on the school history was that Meridian (which we know to be the other "finalist") had the first 2, but the nightlife was a deterrant because they wanted the cadets to stay focused on their studies and not be distracted by the nightlife, so they headed north to Stark.
and turned it down. Natchez had no reason to want a college in 1848. In the 1840's it was the wealthiest town in the world per capita.
The folks in Natchez wanted to make Jefferson College, which at the time wascalled the 'Versailles of the West' into the official University of Mississippi. The other power center in the State (politically speaking) the Columbus Area wanted a more neutral location.Eventually Oxford was selected after tense negotiations.
At least this is all according to my college Ms History recollection.
At least this is all according to my college Ms History recollection.
From what I know, the location of where UM was going to be was between Middleton and Oxford. During this same time period, the town of Middleton was "moved" a couple of miles east so town center would be closer to the railroad and renamed Winona. The only thing left of the town is an old cemetery, which is currently inside Winona city limits. Legend has it there was resistance among locals in Middleton because there was a boarding school already there (don't know what that had to do anything, just what I heard). I think bribery and politics had more to do with it than anything else.
as well. That may be completely false, but it is all legend, anyway. Bribery and manipulation makes a lot more sense than some people concerned about nightlife, especially during a time period when bribery was fairly commonplace. It was quite surprising to a lot of people that the university was placed in Starkville because at the time, Meridian was one of, or becoming one of, the largest cities in the southeast. Of course it didn't stay that way, but at the time, I would imagine Meridian had a lot of influence in the state legislature.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #999999; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Sports Illustrated - December 02, 1991</span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: #666666; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-font-kerning: 18.0pt">The Dixie Cup</span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">When Ole Miss faces Mississippi State, there is far more at stake than mere gridiron supremacy </span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 4.5pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.25pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">... Ole Miss is the last bastion of the traditions of the old Southern gentry. Its teams are nicknamed Rebels; its fans still wave Confederate flags despite official disavowal of the symbol by the university and its alumni association; its marching band still plays Dixie. The very term Ole Miss is not a contraction of "Old Mississippi," but an old slave term—a plantation owner's daughter was called "the young miss" and his wife "the old miss."</span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 4.5pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.25pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mis'ippi State's people loathed those symbols long before loathing them was nationally cool. Mis'ippi State was born of a boycott by the working classes against the very aristocracy that Ole Miss embodies. In 1872, after the federal government provided for land-grant agricultural and mechanical colleges, the Mississippi legislature tried to attach an agriculture school to Ole Miss. Land was designated near the Oxford campus, a dean was hired, a curriculum was designed, the school was proclaimed open, and, according to Ole Miss history professor David Sansing, nobody enrolled. "Not a single student came," Sansing says, "because the sons of the industrial classes didn't want to go up to Ole Miss, where they would have to go to school with the sons of the gentry."</span></p>
</p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">So an entirely new school was created in Starkville. It opened in 1880 as Mississippi A&M but quickly acquired a popular nickname: People's College. No vestiges of class structure, such as those that prevailed at Ole Miss, were allowed at what would become Mississippi State. ...
<font size="4">It's amazing that this attitude prevails today.</font></span>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: #666666; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-font-kerning: 18.0pt">The Dixie Cup</span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">When Ole Miss faces Mississippi State, there is far more at stake than mere gridiron supremacy </span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-outline-level: 3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 4.5pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.25pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">... Ole Miss is the last bastion of the traditions of the old Southern gentry. Its teams are nicknamed Rebels; its fans still wave Confederate flags despite official disavowal of the symbol by the university and its alumni association; its marching band still plays Dixie. The very term Ole Miss is not a contraction of "Old Mississippi," but an old slave term—a plantation owner's daughter was called "the young miss" and his wife "the old miss."</span></p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 4.5pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.25pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mis'ippi State's people loathed those symbols long before loathing them was nationally cool. Mis'ippi State was born of a boycott by the working classes against the very aristocracy that Ole Miss embodies. In 1872, after the federal government provided for land-grant agricultural and mechanical colleges, the Mississippi legislature tried to attach an agriculture school to Ole Miss. Land was designated near the Oxford campus, a dean was hired, a curriculum was designed, the school was proclaimed open, and, according to Ole Miss history professor David Sansing, nobody enrolled. "Not a single student came," Sansing says, "because the sons of the industrial classes didn't want to go up to Ole Miss, where they would have to go to school with the sons of the gentry."</span></p>
</p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">So an entirely new school was created in Starkville. It opened in 1880 as Mississippi A&M but quickly acquired a popular nickname: People's College. No vestiges of class structure, such as those that prevailed at Ole Miss, were allowed at what would become Mississippi State. ...
<font size="4">It's amazing that this attitude prevails today.</font></span>
Because everything but the "vote with me and it'll still be Meridian" speculation part is straight out of the history book of the university.
back during the depression era. The one for Ms. is nothing like what I got in Ms. History classes in school. The original state did not include the NE portion of the state and the residents that formed the state were primarily Catholic. Evidently the first state constitution tied the church and state together and the rest of the country was upset. After the treaty of Pontotoc with the Chickasaws, protestants were encouraged to move into NE Ms. and they took over the legislature and re wrote the state constitution which is why the Ms. Constitution is oneofmost clearest in terms of separation of church and state. The NE had the political power to put both Universities in that region. There's also some great info on the lifestyle of Indian Tribes in Ms. in the book and well worth the read.
