Question for my left leaning friends of the board

[DvlDog4WVU]

I asked in a separate thread and Country outright refused to answer or even acknowledge I asked him a question. So here goes, in its own thread.

Trump is rightfully being blamed for his comments which are riling up the crazies. We've covered this ad nauseum, no reason to further beat this dead horse. 2 part question, the first because I honestly don't know and haven't had the time or inclination to research.

1. Have there been instances where Trump supporters have shown up to Hillary or Bernie rallies and caused disturbances? Any that have rivaled those that have occurred at Trump rallies, i.e. the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?
2. Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

 

[mule_eer]

I asked in a separate thread and Country outright refused to answer or even acknowledge I asked him a question. So here goes, in its own thread.

Trump is rightfully being blamed for his comments which are riling up the crazies. We've covered this ad nauseum, no reason to further beat this dead horse. 2 part question, the first because I honestly don't know and haven't had the time or inclination to research.

1. Have there been instances where Trump supporters have shown up to Hillary or Bernie rallies and caused disturbances? Any that have rivaled those that have occurred at Trump rallies, i.e. the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?
2. Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

I haven't heard of any instances of Trump supporters going to other candidates' rallies to cause disturbances. I suspect there are some protestors at nearly all rallies though, although the numbers are probably dwarfed in comparison to the numbers that show up for Trump.

I'm no expert, but I haven't seen where the folks who were charged with attacking officers claimed to be supportive of any candidate. Some were describing them as anarchist protestors, but who knows if that is really accurate either. I may have missed Bernie or Clinton signs in the crowd, but nearly all I saw were anti-Trump, not pro anyone. I'm sure there are Bernie and Clinton supporters mixed into the crowds, but I have no idea if those are the folks starting the trouble. Regardless, I think it would be wise for anyone who thinks they may hold some sway over protestors to ask them to temper their emotions.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Lake Erie is going to be on fire in July, and that's regardless of who wins the nomination or how. I do think that it is irresponsible for Trump to keep harping about riots in the streets if he doesn't get the nomination. I don't think that rises to "inciting a riot", but it won't help squelch one either. Having said that, I suspect there will be riots if he gets the nomination too. This is going to be an ugly election cycle.

 

[mneilmont]

I haven't heard of any instances of Trump supporters going to other candidates' rallies to cause disturbances. I suspect there are some protestors at nearly all rallies though, although the numbers are probably dwarfed in comparison to the numbers that show up for Trump.

I'm no expert, but I haven't seen where the folks who were charged with attacking officers claimed to be supportive of any candidate. Some were describing them as anarchist protestors, but who knows if that is really accurate either. I may have missed Bernie or Clinton signs in the crowd, but nearly all I saw were anti-Trump, not pro anyone. I'm sure there are Bernie and Clinton supporters mixed into the crowds, but I have no idea if those are the folks starting the trouble. Regardless, I think it would be wise for anyone who thinks they may hold some sway over protestors to ask them to temper their emotions.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Lake Erie is going to be on fire in July, and that's regardless of who wins the nomination or how. I do think that it is irresponsible for Trump to keep harping about riots in the streets if he doesn't get the nomination. I don't think that rises to "inciting a riot", but it won't help squelch one either. Having said that, I suspect there will be riots if he gets the nomination too. This is going to be an ugly election cycle.

I have seen nothing to suggest pro-Trump at Dem rally. Often wonder if those advertising Hillary and Bern are actually supporters or just carrying the signs to incite. Saw some black folks a few days back that were simply anti Trump. Would make a small wager that they will not vote. Their only purpose is to riot.

 

[bornaneer]

I asked in a separate thread and Country outright refused to answer or even acknowledge I asked him a question. So here goes, in its own thread.

Trump is rightfully being blamed for his comments which are riling up the crazies. We've covered this ad nauseum, no reason to further beat this dead horse. 2 part question, the first because I honestly don't know and haven't had the time or inclination to research.

1. Have there been instances where Trump supporters have shown up to Hillary or Bernie rallies and caused disturbances? Any that have rivaled those that have occurred at Trump rallies, i.e. the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?
2. Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

I'm not left leaning but I will answer.

1. Yes
2. Yes

 

[MountaineerWV]

Extreme viewpoints and comments will ALWAYS bring out people protesting or starting trouble. Regardless if it's Trump or a local KKK rally/march. If Trump were just.....well.....a NORMAL person.....there would be no problems.

And I hate Trump, even before all his stupid comments. But I did actually agree with his comment towards Ford. I'm settled in though, it's either Sanders or I'm going to see if I'm allowed to write my own name in on the ballot.

 

[Airport]

I asked in a separate thread and Country outright refused to answer or even acknowledge I asked him a question. So here goes, in its own thread.

Trump is rightfully being blamed for his comments which are riling up the crazies. We've covered this ad nauseum, no reason to further beat this dead horse. 2 part question, the first because I honestly don't know and haven't had the time or inclination to research.

1. Have there been instances where Trump supporters have shown up to Hillary or Bernie rallies and caused disturbances? Any that have rivaled those that have occurred at Trump rallies, i.e. the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?
2. Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

Most conservatives are too busy making a living to waste their time going to the opponents rally to cause problems. A lot of kids just want to do it to give them something to do. Kinda like cow tipping in college.

 

[moe]

I asked in a separate thread and Country outright refused to answer or even acknowledge I asked him a question. So here goes, in its own thread.

Trump is rightfully being blamed for his comments which are riling up the crazies. We've covered this ad nauseum, no reason to further beat this dead horse. 2 part question, the first because I honestly don't know and haven't had the time or inclination to research.

1. Have there been instances where Trump supporters have shown up to Hillary or Bernie rallies and caused disturbances? Any that have rivaled those that have occurred at Trump rallies, i.e. the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?
2. Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

1.Dunno 2. No.

 

[moe]

Most conservatives are too busy making a living to waste their time going to the opponents rally to cause problems

lol

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

1.Dunno 2. No.

Why?

 

[moe]

Why?

As for #2, I'm not interested enough to find out for sure but I don't think that they are paid protestors and I think that they are there of their own accord and not at the direction of either Dem candidate therefore I don't think that either has the responsibility to dissuade them from attending Trump rallies. If a third party is paying them to attend Trump rallies, I still don't see where either Dem candidate has any control over them or any responsibility to call them off. I also don't care if the same happened at the Dem rallies.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Most conservatives are too busy making a living to waste their time going to the opponents rally to cause problems. A lot of kids just want to do it to give them something to do. Kinda like cow tipping in college.

I think you have fundamental misunderstanding of the makeup of our party these days. There is a sizable percentage (30% or so) of people in our party that are not who you think they are.

 

[mule_eer]

Most conservatives are too busy making a living to waste their time going to the opponents rally to cause problems. A lot of kids just want to do it to give them something to do. Kinda like cow tipping in college.

Yet they are able to attend Trump rallies.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh?Do Hillary and Bernie share any responsibility as the individuals showing up to do this have admittedly been Bernie and Hillary supporters as any number of videos will show? They openly state who they are voting for. Is it incumbent on Hillary and Bernie to address their supporters to allow the election process to take shape?

"the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh" - is there a video showing an attack on police officers? The video I saw shows protesters holding their line and the police were pushing them back and then chaos ensues. To characterize it as "pre-meditated" is disingenuous. The only thing premeditated was an intent to protest, not necessarily an attack.

I think the protestors are mostly BLM and some may be supporting Bernie or Hillary, but their focus is to fight racial injustice, not necessarily to show up at a Trump rally to promote Hillary or Bernie. They are standing up against what they perceive is racial hatred and injustice. They have shown up at Bernie's campaign rallies and we've already went overt the extreme differences on how those situations were handled (between Trump and Bernie).

 

[bornaneer]

As for #2, I'm not interested enough to find out for sure but I don't think that they are paid protestors and I think that they are there of their own accord and not at the direction of either Dem candidate therefore I don't think that either has the responsibility to dissuade them from attending Trump rallies. If a third party is paying them to attend Trump rallies, I still don't see where either Dem candidate has any control over them or any responsibility to call them off. I also don't care if the same happened at the Dem rallies.

Hypocrite..........you have a totally different view if the candidate is a repub.

 

[moe]

Hypocrite..........you have a totally different view if the candidate is a repub.

I also don't care if the same happened at the Dem rallies. Read much? smh

 

[bornaneer]

I also don't care if the same happened at the Dem rallies. Read much? smh

I read that and took it for what it was......total ********.

 

[moe]

I read that and took it for what it was......total ********.

Sorry that you feel that way. I only make honest and truthful posts.

 

[mule_eer]

"the pre-meditated attack on police last night in Pittsburgh" - is there a video showing an attack on police officers? The video I saw shows protesters holding their line and the police were pushing them back and then chaos ensues. To characterize it as "pre-meditated" is disingenuous. The only thing premeditated was an intent to protest, not necessarily an attack.

I think the protestors are mostly BLM and some may be supporting Bernie or Hillary, but their focus is to fight racial injustice, not necessarily to show up at a Trump rally to promote Hillary or Bernie. They are standing up against what they perceive is racial hatred and injustice. They have shown up at Bernie's campaign rallies and we've already went overt the extreme differences on how those situations were handled (between Trump and Bernie).

3 people attacked the police in Pittsburgh. I haven't heard them claim to support any particular candidate, but 3 people are in custody from those attacks.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

3 people attacked the police in Pittsburgh. I haven't heard them claim to support any particular candidate, but 3 people are in custody from those attacks.

And what I read where they used pepper spray on the police tells me they had a premeditated expectation for violence.

 

[moe]

And what I read where they used pepper spray on the police tells me they had a premeditated expectation for violence.

Anyone that goes to a Trump rally to protest should expect a physical confrontation with some type of security people, police or other.

 

[mneilmont]

3 people attacked the police in Pittsburgh. I haven't heard them claim to support any particular candidate, but 3 people are in custody from those attacks.

Should they be water-boarded to get truth as to their sponsor? Before or after they are released from the hospital?

 

[mneilmont]

Anyone that goes to a Trump rally to protest should expect a physical confrontation with some type of security people, police or other.

Why would you make that statement? Have there been that many confrontations? Why not reported?

 

[moe]

Why would you make that statement? Have there been that many confrontations? Why not reported?

Do you watch the news? Have you not seen protestors (and others) getting thrown out of Trump rallies? I'm not saying that some don't deserve it but it seems to be a common occurrence.

 

[bornaneer]

Do you watch the news? Have you not seen protestors (and others) getting thrown out of Trump rallies? I'm not saying that some don't deserve it but it seems to be a common occurrence.

Do you watch any news? Its a common occurrence at Trump rallies BECAUSE the Soros backed agitators have publicly stated that they will protest and distrupt Trump events.

 

[mneilmont]

Do you watch the news? Have you not seen protestors (and others) getting thrown out of Trump rallies? I'm not saying that some don't deserve it but it seems to be a common occurrence.

Yes, I have noticed a couple radicals being removed lately when they attempt to compete with the speaker. Has this been so at all his rallies - or just recently? What do you offer as the reason for the increase in disruption recently?

It takes effort to attend these meetings? Why do you suppose anyone would spend the time and effort and risk of physical harm when they have totally no interest in what is being said? Why would you think anyone would be that intent? Hell, I remember MLK marches, and I even remember the purpose. Most of these people have no ***** idea what they are protesting. Yet, they return. Why?

 

[moe]

Do you watch any news?

Yes and thanks for asking.

 

[bornaneer]

Yes and thanks for asking.

Then you are aware about the financial and organizational support that folks like Soros are providing.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Do you watch the news? Have you not seen protestors (and others) getting thrown out of Trump rallies? I'm not saying that some don't deserve it but it seems to be a common occurrence.

So you come prepared to fight security/police? Prepared=Premeditated

 

[moe]

So you come prepared to fight security/police? Prepared=Premeditated

The only presidential rally I've been to was John Kerry in Charleston and I was prepared to enjoy the cash bar. I don't endorse the idea of protestors carrying pepper spray as they won't make any new friends and will probably make things worse for themselves. I would never go to a political rally where I didn't support the candidate.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

So you come prepared to fight security/police? Prepared=Premeditated

Not necessarily ... some people just have pepper spray on them pretty much all the time. A Trump supporter pepper sprayed a girl at a rally not long ago.

To answer your first post:
1) I don't think Trump supporters can read well enough to figure out where/when the Bernie/Hillary rallies are going to be held, so they can't make it to them. But in all honesty, I haven't seen or heard of it.
2) I don't know how Bernie/Hillary could be thought of as responsible for this when they haven't said anything to their supporters to suggest that the supporters should do this. As far as allowing the election process to take shape, I don't see how these actions obstruct that ... an election is part of our right to free speech IMO and protests are part of that. Violence is not however.

Is Trump "responsible" for the actions of his supporters? I don't see how. You can say whatever you want to somebody and try to get them to do whatever, but their actions are their own. Having said that, I don't see how anybody could argue that Trump doesn't encourage physical altercations from his followers at his rallies. That's the difference, as I see it, between the actions of Trump supporters and Bernie/Hillary supporters.

I've not seen the level of protesting over a candidate that we see with Trump. A lot of it is driven by his own rhetoric, when you speak as he does and makes the statements that he does, you are going to stir emotions. That includes those that agree with you as well as those that don't.

 

[bornaneer]

I've not seen the level of protesting over a candidate that we see with Trump. A lot of it is driven by his own rhetoric, when you speak as he does and makes the statements that he does, you are going to stir emotions. That includes those that agree with you as well as those that don't.

I also have not. No doubt Trump is a loose cannon. I can't believe that he says some of the things he does. However I also believe that most of it is done to keep him in the news and on all the news shows. It must be really bad when the Repub establishment goes against him. It spite of everything I still believe he is the only one that can beat Clinton.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I also have not. No doubt Trump is a loose cannon. I can't believe that he says some of the things he does. However I also believe that most of it is done to keep him in the news and on all the news shows. It must be really bad when the Repub establishment goes against him. It spite of everything I still believe he is the only one that can beat Clinton.

That could be, and probably is accurate ... but in my opinion it is stirring up emotions and people that are probably better left unperturbed.

It is speculation on both our parts, but I don't see how he could win the general election when he doesn't even have the support of his own party. For that matter, I don't see how he makes it out of a brokered convention with the nomination in the first place.

I'm still dumbfounded. Out of ALL of those candidates, Trump and Cruz are who people have settled on?

 

[mule_eer]

That could be, and probably is accurate ... but in my opinion it is stirring up emotions and people that are probably better left unperturbed.

It is speculation on both our parts, but I don't see how he could win the general election when he doesn't even have the support of his own party. For that matter, I don't see how he makes it out of a brokered convention with the nomination in the first place.

I'm still dumbfounded. Out of ALL of those candidates, Trump and Cruz are who people have settled on?

I agree with your confusion over the top 2 GOP candidates. I understand the Bush malaise and concerns over Rubio's lack of experience. Cruz has the same lack of experience as Rubio, but at least Rubio could get along with more than 1 or 2 of his colleagues.

 

[bornaneer]

That could be, and probably is accurate ... but in my opinion it is stirring up emotions and people that are probably better left unperturbed.

It is speculation on both our parts, but I don't see how he could win the general election when he doesn't even have the support of his own party. For that matter, I don't see how he makes it out of a brokered convention with the nomination in the first place.

I'm still dumbfounded. Out of ALL of those candidates, Trump and Cruz are who people have settled on?

Straight up, Cruz has zero chance against Trump. He may be in second place but l attribute that to his organization. Trump's ground game is very weak at this point.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Not necessarily ... some people just have pepper spray on them pretty much all the time. A Trump supporter pepper sprayed a girl at a rally not long ago.

To answer your first post:
1) I don't think Trump supporters can read well enough to figure out where/when the Bernie/Hillary rallies are going to be held, so they can't make it to them. But in all honesty, I haven't seen or heard of it.
2) I don't know how Bernie/Hillary could be thought of as responsible for this when they haven't said anything to their supporters to suggest that the supporters should do this. As far as allowing the election process to take shape, I don't see how these actions obstruct that ... an election is part of our right to free speech IMO and protests are part of that. Violence is not however.

Is Trump "responsible" for the actions of his supporters? I don't see how. You can say whatever you want to somebody and try to get them to do whatever, but their actions are their own. Having said that, I don't see how anybody could argue that Trump doesn't encourage physical altercations from his followers at his rallies. That's the difference, as I see it, between the actions of Trump supporters and Bernie/Hillary supporters.

I've not seen the level of protesting over a candidate that we see with Trump. A lot of it is driven by his own rhetoric, when you speak as he does and makes the statements that he does, you are going to stir emotions. That includes those that agree with you as well as those that don't.

Have they condemned and tried to discourage the actions and violence of their supporters? I don't know. I feel like they should though and regardless of what Trump says, I don't see how he is responsible.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Have they condemned and tried to discourage the actions and violence of their supporters? I don't know. I feel like they should though and regardless of what Trump says, I don't see how he is responsible.

Then shouldn't Trump condemn and try to discourage the actions and violence of his supporters too?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Then shouldn't Trump condemn and try to discourage the actions and violence of his supporters too?

Yes, of course. This isn't a defend Trump post. Clearly he's a piece of ****. My point is that Hillary and Bernie are equal pieces of **** relative to this discussion since their people are actually the ones reacting to Trump and causing the damn problems.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Yes, of course. This isn't a defend Trump post. Clearly he's a piece of ****. My point is that Hillary and Bernie are equal pieces of **** relative to this discussion since their people are actually the ones reacting to Trump and causing the damn problems.

This is one of those times where I think we will just disagree. While I agree that maybe they should say something, I wouldn't say that they are equal pieces of **** if they don't because they aren't actively promoting it like Trump is. I could see them making a statement, and that would be prudent, but I don't feel they would be obligated to do so if people aren't doing it at their direction or encouragement. Sometimes silence can be seen as condoning ... I don't think this is one of them.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

This is one of those times where I think we will just disagree. While I agree that maybe they should say something, I wouldn't say that they are equal pieces of **** if they don't because they aren't actively promoting it like Trump is. I could see them making a statement, and that would be prudent, but I don't feel they would be obligated to do so if people aren't doing it at their direction or encouragement. Sometimes silence can be seen as condoning ... I don't think this is one of them.

Politically, I think they are condoning it, albeit privately. Trump is the biggest threat to both of their agendas and their candidacy. Not saying anything allows them to remain "disconnected" from it, but like you said, their silence says a lot to me about their character.

 

[bornaneer]

This is one of those times where I think we will just disagree. While I agree that maybe they should say something, I wouldn't say that they are equal pieces of **** if they don't because they aren't actively promoting it like Trump is. I could see them making a statement, and that would be prudent, but I don't feel they would be obligated to do so if people aren't doing it at their direction or encouragement. Sometimes silence can be seen as condoning ... I don't think this is one of them.

They are actively promoting anger against Trump. They make blanket statements that he is against women, Mexicans,Muslims and immigrants. You don't think that stirs emotions? They do it and they never are taken to task by the media.