question for soccer fans

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm not a soccer guy, but I gave it a chance and watched the complete USA vs. England match on Saturday. It was the first time I have watched a complete game from beginning to end. I've got a few questions/comments.

1. Can somebody give me the cliff's notes version of offsides?
2. I was amazed at the skill level of ball-handling with feet only. Amazing what these guys can do.
3. Who decides how much time to add at the end of each half?

Also, is there some rule that says if anyone gets within 3 feet of you, that you must fall to the ground as if soaked with gasoline and set on fire? I have never seen a sport where so many injuries are faked. That was the most embarassing part of the game. Is it always that way? It was more embarrassing than comical.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm not a soccer guy, but I gave it a chance and watched the complete USA vs. England match on Saturday. It was the first time I have watched a complete game from beginning to end. I've got a few questions/comments.

1. Can somebody give me the cliff's notes version of offsides?
2. I was amazed at the skill level of ball-handling with feet only. Amazing what these guys can do.
3. Who decides how much time to add at the end of each half?

Also, is there some rule that says if anyone gets within 3 feet of you, that you must fall to the ground as if soaked with gasoline and set on fire? I have never seen a sport where so many injuries are faked. That was the most embarassing part of the game. Is it always that way? It was more embarrassing than comical.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm not a soccer guy, but I gave it a chance and watched the complete USA vs. England match on Saturday. It was the first time I have watched a complete game from beginning to end. I've got a few questions/comments.

1. Can somebody give me the cliff's notes version of offsides?
2. I was amazed at the skill level of ball-handling with feet only. Amazing what these guys can do.
3. Who decides how much time to add at the end of each half?

Also, is there some rule that says if anyone gets within 3 feet of you, that you must fall to the ground as if soaked with gasoline and set on fire? I have never seen a sport where so many injuries are faked. That was the most embarassing part of the game. Is it always that way? It was more embarrassing than comical.

 

[patdog]

1. When the ball is kicked, there have to be at least 2 defensive players (usually 1 is the goalkeeper) behind any player who makes a play for that pass. If a player is in an offside position but doesn't make a play for the ball, it's not offside.

2. Agree. It's even more impressive if you watch a game in person.

3. The referee on the field decides how much time is added. The clock that everyone can see never stops, but the ref keeps the official time and he stops his watch for injuries, etc. At least that's the theory. I really think the game just ends when the ref decides to end it.

4. There is a good bit of flopping in soccer. It's supposed to be a yellow card, but it's rarely called. I did see one yellow card for flopping in the World Cup this year though (and I haven't really watched all that much of it). A lot of the "fake" injuries are real though. People ***** about soccer players looking like they're hurt then walking off the field and then coming right back in the game. They don't realize that the exact same thing happens a dozen times in every football game you see. They just don't notice it as much in football since the game stops for 30 seconds after every 10 seconds of action anyway.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I'm not a soccer guy, but I gave it a chance and watched the complete USA vs. England match on Saturday. It was the first time I have watched a complete game from beginning to end. I've got a few questions/comments.

1. Can somebody give me the cliff's notes version of offsides?
2. I was amazed at the skill level of ball-handling with feet only. Amazing what these guys can do.
3. Who decides how much time to add at the end of each half?

Also, is there some rule that says if anyone gets within 3 feet of you, that you must fall to the ground as if soaked with gasoline and set on fire? I have never seen a sport where so many injuries are faked. That was the most embarassing part of the game. Is it always that way? It was more embarrassing than comical.

1. Offsides: If an attacking player is between the goal keeper and the defenders, he is offside if he receives a pass. You must stay in front of the defenders to not be offsides. Pretend there is an imaginary line going across the field wherever the last defender is standing. You have to say in front of it, not behind it to where the keeper is the only player between you and the goal. Obviously if you have the ball at your feet you cannot be offsides. <div>
</div><div>3. There's another referee who keeps time from how long it takes the game to get back underway during injuries, substitutions, free kicks, ball out of bounds, etc. If there was a total delay of 2-3 min, that's how much time is added on. If there's no injuries, stoppage time is normally one minute and the referee who checks players into the game when a substitute is made keeps track of this time which is called "stoppage time."</div><div>
</div><div>You'll see that most of the people who fall and roll around on the ground are foreign and not American players as much although they do that too, but I played soccer for 15 years competitively and when your running full speed and you get taken out it does hurt, if you get stepped on by those cleats it'll bruise your foot, getting kicked below the shinguard on the ankle hurts, and getting tackled an cleats going into your legs is painful. I know alot of it is exaggerated, but alot of the times it does hurt and it's all done to try to earn a free kick and make it look bad so the ref feels he made the right call. I personally never flopped around on the ground and hated seeing other teams do it, so I was not one of those players. I don't think I ever needed help being taken off the field and I did suffer man hamstring injuries and sprained ankles, etc.</div><div>
</div><div>Hope this helps.</div>

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Ifan offensive playercan't get behind a defender and receive a pass, do the defenders often play forward some, knowing that the offensive player can't be behind them? Do they sometimes bait someone into an offsides? It seems if your defenders move forward, that would force the offensive player further from the goal. Does that makes sense at all? Please excuse my ignorance, just trying to learn.

 

[croomsgone]

one more thing about offsides.... if one guy is past everybody and he passes the ball backwards to one of his teammates, his teammate can be past everyone too

 

[lawdawg02]

I had no idea he had that reputation. He is making Pau Gasol, Manu Ginobili, and Derek Fisher look like hockey players.

While we're asking questions, I have one. Are there certain times that the goalkeeper, while still in his box, may NOT use his hands? It seems to me that when his own team kicks it to him, as part of keeping possession, they don't use their hands. Is this a rule? I have sort of been blindly assuming so.</p>

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

Defense will often push forward, and sometimes even jump forward suddenly to "trap" a player offsides. You have to be careful though, because you create open space between you and the goal. When you are facing a player like Messi or Rooney or Eto, someone with excellent speed, this can be very risky because the ball can be played through the defense and that player can use his speed to beat the defenders to the ball in the open space.

The whole key is for the forward to time his break perfectly so that when his teammate strikes the ball he is off. The defense counters this by trying to jump it right before the opposing player kicks it. If that makes sense.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

They not only create space but aren't as susceptible to and offsides trap.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

He is one of the worst. He got hosed on that yellow card though.

With flopping, some players are obviously worse than others and some countries worse than others. Unfortunately, Italy is pretty notorious for flopping. It is almost like it is part of the soccer culture. It is my least favorite part of the game. The South American teams arent nearly as bad as the Euro teams.

 

[jsireland]

instead of his play! ronaldo is one of the worst in the game.

the keeper can't pick it up if it's intentionally passed back from his own player's feet/legs. if it's headed/chested back or unintentional (a whole new can of worms), then he may pick it up.

 

[af102]

<span><embed height="355" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bRPra3sHdPM?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span>

 

[jsireland]

and shows you're thinking about strategies.

there is the "offsides trap" with defenders who will push up simultaneously to catch a player offsides. you will also see teams push up in general to prevent the opposition from going so deep.

the problem with this is that if one person doesn't push up at the right time, he plays the opponent onsides and has a good goal scoring opportunity (mexico's goal against south africa comes to mind). the problem with playing farther and farther up in general is that you allow your opponents lots of room behind you to run onto the ball and have open space when they do.

it ends up being a balance. think of the safety in football. if they push up to stop the run, they are vulnerable to the pass. if they drop deep, the offense can likely chew up more yards on the ground. if your safeties are faster then you can risk it a bit more. etc.

hopefully that gives you at least a decent understanding of some strategy involved.

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

I never watched a game of soccer until the last world cup. I was a senior at state and watched it constantly. I've been looking forward to the world cup for four years. I'm watching it right now instead of working. If you play video games, rent Fifa World Cup andyou will get a perfect understanding for what offsides is and will instantly love watching soccer even more. As far as flopping goes, it's just part of the game. The U.S. doesn't do it as much as everyone else which is cool, beause it's like hey we're not pussies like y'all. But it is a big disadvantage to not do it, because everyone does. It's just a fact you have to get used to. The whole world does it and you can ***** about it but it's not gonna change the fact that it is just part of the game.

 

[Swampazz]

You can only be offsides when you are on your opponents side of the field. Or should I say pitch.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

Mainly because I can't stand Ronaldo. But both of those incidents in the first half were cases of him making a mountain out of a mole hill. The first one he might have gotten nicked but fell like he was shot. The 2nd he sees the tackle and just falls into it. He was halfway to the ground before the Ivory Coast dude touched him. I guess it's still a foul but it's embarassing to see players go to the ground so easily.

 

[rem101]

Lots of teams play the offside trap. You just have to be careful. If the offensive team plays a ball through to a diagnal run you can get burned with a 1 on 1 with the goalie.

 

[lawdawg02]

This is the first I've seen of his actual play. I already don't like him.

Thanks for the info on the keeper - that makes perfect sense.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

The major sports that we in the US watch have all tweaked their rules to allow for more offense and scoring. Things like 24 second clocks, 5 yard chucking, protecting the QB rules, smaller ballparks and more frequent ball replacement are all things to increase the offenses ability to succeed.

The offside in soccer is the exact opposite. it is in place to restrict offense. Watching the USA v England game there were roughly 7 - 10 scoring opportunities in the 97 minutes they played. (I think there were 7 extra minutes added during the course of the game.) I got excited when we scored and when Altidore hit the post. I got a little concerned when England had some of their good opportunities. It just was too much time in between those exciting moments.

I understand it is due to what we are used to as US sports fans. I do understand it is due to my lack of exposure to soccer growing up. But how can people complain that Baseball is boring and slow and think Soccer is not. Baseball has a chance for things to happen on every pitch. That is hundreds of opportunities in each game for something to happen. Soccer seems to have 10 to 20 opportunities in a game for something to happen.

If they made the offside more like hockey where it is a line on the field where the ball has to cross before there can be a break away, instead of letting the defense dictate where that line is, it would improve scoring opportunities. However millions of people watch and love soccer as it is and it is not up to me to request or demand changes to their sport. I just know I can't really enjoy the game in it's current form.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

The fact that goals are at such a premium is what makes them so exciting when they happen. If it were easier it would not be the same.</p>

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

First, these teams are still getting used to playing together. As the tournament goes on, you will see more action around the goals as they begin to pass and attack better together.

Second, the group stage brings on a "survivalist" strategy where teams are just trying to get points.

When the knockout rounds start, there are no ties. The intensity of extra time in the world cup is something to behold. Not to mention the excitement of penalty shootouts. For those of you on the fence, stay tuned in. It only gets better from here.

 

[patdog]

If they made the offside more like hockey where it is a line on the field where the ball has to cross before there can be a break away, instead of letting the defense dictate where that line is, it would improve scoring opportunities.

I do agree that there needs to be more scoring in soccer. Not a lot more, but a little more. And your proposal might work. It'll never happen, but it would be interesting to see some league try it just to see what would happen.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

1) Change the offsides rule to only one defender between the offense and the goal. From what I understand, the ball counts as a defender. That would open up the net, make the goalie defense more space, and allow more scoring.

2) Set a sniper on the roof of every major stadium. Then, every time a player goes down with a near-fatal injury, you have to assume that he's near death and he needs to be put out of his misery. A trained sniper with a .50 cal sniper gun could do such a thing with a good head shot.

*- You have to have one crazy idea, so you can always plead insanity......heh heh heh, changing offsides to only one defender, heh heh heh....

 

[o_1984Dawg]

2) Set a sniper on the roof of every major stadium. Then, every time a player goes down with a near-fatal injury, you have to assume that he's near death and he needs to be put out of his misery. A trained sniper with a .50 cal sniper gun could do such a thing with a good head shot.

 

[af102]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the ball counts as a defender." Unless you mean that if you are behind the ball, you can't be offside, which is true.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

AzzurriDawg4 wrote:

Second, the group stage brings on a "survivalist" strategy where teams are just trying to get points.

When the knockout rounds start, there are no ties. The intensity of extra time in the world cup is something to behold. Not to mention the excitement of penalty shootouts. For those of you on the fence, stay tuned in. It only gets better from here.

I know that in the group stage, that 2 teams from each group advance based on points (0 points for loss, 1 point for tie, 3 points for win). Therefore 16 teams will advance. Will everything then be single eliminationwith16 teams? If you have a tie in a game, will they go to overtime? How long is overtime?

 

[patdog]

If a game ends in a draw, there will be 2 15-minute overtime periods played (not sudden death which is moronic). Then if it's still tied, they'll go to penalty kicks. If it goes to penalty kicks, the game officially ends in a draw and the score is listed as a draw, but the team that converts more penalty kicks advances to the next round.

 

[af102]

Top 2 from each pool advance to a 16 team bracket. Everything is single elimination after that. If games are tied after 90 mins, you play two 15 minute halfs of overtime, and you have to complete all 30 mins even if someone scores. It used to be golden goal (sudden death), but they changed it a few years back. If still tied, it goes to a penalty shootout, with each team taking 5 each. If still tied, it goes to sudden death penalties, which means each team takes one, and if still tied, you keep going. Teams have gone 10 or 11 deep in shootouts.

 

[jsireland]

comes the "knockout" stage. it is basically a 16 team bracket, with the first place teams playing the second place teams from the group stage in the first round and on from there. it is single-elimination. if the match is still tied after 90 minutes, they play 30 minutes of overtime. this is two 15-minute halves. no sudden death.

if they are still tied after overtime, it goes to a penalty shootout. 5 shots for each team. if it is still tied, it's "sudden death" penalty shots of 1 per team. they will continue until one team makes it and the other misses.

i hope that makes sense.

 

[seshomoru]

patdog]

If they made the offside more like hockey where it is a line on the field where the ball has to cross before there can be a break away, instead of letting the defense dictate where that line is, it would improve scoring opportunities.

I do agree that there needs to be more scoring in soccer. Not a lot more, but a little more. And your proposal might work. It'll never happen, but it would be interesting to see some league try it just to see what would happen.

True, it'll never happen and doesn't need to. The game has done just fine without the US for ages, and they sure aren't about to change the rules just so US fans will get interested.

I think we'll come around as a nation the better and better we get. It'll start with the national team and eventually bleed down into MLS. I expect a LOT of Latino players to be the ones that truly help MLS get the talent worthy of respected league.

 

[patdog]

Nobody likes a match to come down to penalty kicks. It's just too random and cheap. Of course, after teams have played 120 minutes you don't have much choice. All doing away with the Golden Goal does is increase the number of games that end on PKs. Also, there's nothing more exciting in sports that a score that ends the game, like the Golden Goal (or a walk-off home run, or an overtime touchdown, etc.). Why do away with that?

 

[Buford T. Justice]

On the sudden death penalty kicks, is that just an offensive player versus a goalie? Or is that the kick where the defenders form a little wall where you have to kick over or around them?

 

[jsireland]

from 12 yards (11 meters).

here's the youtube from germany vs. argentina from the world cup in germany in 2006. this is to get into the semifinals. long but exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJZhCb7c_oM

 

[jsireland]

while searching for a penalty shootout example, i came across the footage of the same shootout taken at a "public viewing". these are all over the countries, all over the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AljBo3rb9Ho

gives you a bit of a feel for how much it means to other countries.

 

[Eureka Dog]

have never (in my experience) taken the time to (1) learn the rules, (2) watch 40-50 games, and (3) think about the strategy involved in the game.

If youattended (with a person who had never seen a game)four games, one of each --American football, baseball, basketball,and soccer --and you had to explain each and every call to that person, you would speak the least at the soccer game.

A simpler explanation is that most folks under 45 have grown up with video games that present constant action to the viewer/player. Interludes don't exist in video games. This has lead to an inability to focus during the low-action moments of sports such as baseball and soccer. Heck, listen how folks in the standscomplain when the TV timeouts "take too long" at a college FB game.

 

[Eureka Dog]

(basically) that the NFL modified its sudden-death OT rules. (Most fansdon't like to seea hard fought, evenly matched gamego into overtime and then end when only one side has had an offensive possession.)

 

[JimHalpert.nafoom]

It's 85% luck whether the guy scores or not. It's like a World Series game going to a home run derby after 12 innings.

 

[patdog]

I can see why the NFL modified their rule, because with the kickoff from the 30 it's too easy for a team to kick a FG after a 30-yard drive and win the game. But soccer doesn't work like that. You don't have one time in a hundred where a team scores before the other team gets possession. And even if you did give up a goal that easily, you deserve to lose.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

I believe the golden goal rule was done away with because teams were playing too defensive. Basically they were scared of the golden goal more than they were seeking it. They got rid of it to have a more open, less conservative overtime.

I've never heard that it was because one team might not get a possession. The odds of that happening are nowhere close to what they are in the NFL.