"Shape of the Program When Croom Was Hired"

[whatever.sixpack]

Is anyone else tired of the media and seemingly everyone else wanting to give Croom time because of "the terrible shape the program was in when he was hired." Chris Low just said what I always hear people say, "well, you have to know what kind of mess he inherited."
Really? Every program that gets rid of a coach must have somewhat of a problem, but in my opinion, Croom inherited more talent then than he has now so that excuse just seems like a myth. We had Norwood, Conner, Eric Butler, Burch, David Stewart, Willie Evans, Dockery, Jermamie Johnson, Ronald Fields, Culberson, etc... I agree there may have been some attitude problems, but so what?
Thoughts?

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Is anyone else tired of the media and seemingly everyone else wanting to give Croom time because of "the terrible shape the program was in when he was hired." Chris Low just said what I always hear people say, "well, you have to know what kind of mess he inherited."
Really? Every program that gets rid of a coach must have somewhat of a problem, but in my opinion, Croom inherited more talent then than he has now so that excuse just seems like a myth. We had Norwood, Conner, Eric Butler, Burch, David Stewart, Willie Evans, Dockery, Jermamie Johnson, Ronald Fields, Culberson, etc... I agree there may have been some attitude problems, but so what?
Thoughts?

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Is anyone else tired of the media and seemingly everyone else wanting to give Croom time because of "the terrible shape the program was in when he was hired." Chris Low just said what I always hear people say, "well, you have to know what kind of mess he inherited."
Really? Every program that gets rid of a coach must have somewhat of a problem, but in my opinion, Croom inherited more talent then than he has now so that excuse just seems like a myth. We had Norwood, Conner, Eric Butler, Burch, David Stewart, Willie Evans, Dockery, Jermamie Johnson, Ronald Fields, Culberson, etc... I agree there may have been some attitude problems, but so what?
Thoughts?

 

[HD6]

QB-2004, especially if **** for brains had installed the right offense. But Conner is a far sight better than what we have now.

RB-Is this a joke? 2004 for Norwood alone.

WR-Today is better, but it's really the skinniest fat guy here.

TE-2004 aGAIN by a long shot.

OL-I would go 2004 here. David Stewart was better than anyone we have now. Richard Burch was halfway decent before he got arrested. Will Rogers and Brian Anderson were OK. This year's line is terrible.

DL-I say aGAIN, it's not close, it's 2004. Fields, Evans, Heard, Robinson, Powell. That's pretty solid actually.

LB-This position was terribly weak in 2004, so 2008 wins in a walk.

DB-If you broke by position, 2004 would win at CB, and 2006 would win at safety. Overall, slight edge to 2008, Pegues and Fitzhugh are damn good. But it could go either way.

P/K-Do I really need to say anything? 2004.

And I don't want to hear any **** about depth. We don't have any quality depth now, let alone then. But when you compare the starting lineups, I think the 2004 team is better at at least 20 of 24 positions.

 

[SLUdog]

the condition of the program in 2003-4 had nothing to do with losing to LaTech in 2008. After 4 Croom classes are we demonstrating more talent? I'm not sure.

 

[patdog]

In year 5, it doesn't matter what shape the program was in when you took over. It's YOUR team now. And Crxxm's team sucks donkey balls.

 

[Indndawg]

Jackie got the recruits just lost fire and control

Cr_ _ ms gets a few good recruits and totally cannot coach a lick, but they play hard

 

[TBonewannabe]

All the NCAA stuff with Xenareb (stupid *****) and then his personal problems just compounded everything. It is tough enough in the SEC without all that other stuff. Croom has no excuses unless his golf cart's battery is dead.

 

[Coach34]

I give props to DS, Heydog, and the crew for creating this board...because of you gentlemen (and I use that term loosely), we are able to actually overcome those dumbass sheep as well as the grossly uninformed with facts. Absolute facts.

And the only fact is that we play harder for the most part than we did in 2004. We are not better off in any other way than we were then. Crooms can absolutely take credit for that, but its time to win. Just playing harder doesnt get the job done.

Saturday is a big day for this coaching staff and they know it. They have been put on alert that some heads are going to roll if they dont get to 4-5 wins this year.

 

[thunderclap]

has been pointing to Year 5 for the last four years as our big measuring stick, the time to see results.

1-4, 100+ on offense.

Same as Year 1.

The end.

 

[gtowndawg]

he won three games with them...three!

Jerious Norwood
David Stewart
Kevin Dockery
Quinton Culberson
Ron Fields
Deljuan Robinson

he also had Willie Evans who is currently on the scout team for Atlanta. All Jackie recruits.

We have one sure NFL player right now. Pegus. Nobody (to my knowledge) made an NFL team from last year...Croom's first class. It will take years for Croom to get 6 players in the NFL.

One other point...stars do matter. Almost all the guys listed above had high star rankings.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I put the list together off the top of my head.

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[gtowndawg]

nm

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[thunderclap]

Omarr Conner, who at the time, was as athletic as any QB in the SEC.

Who wouldn't take Omarr as our QB right now?

 

[graddawg]

he won three games with them...three!

Jerious Norwood
David Stewart
Kevin Dockery
Quinton Culberson
Ron Fields
Deljuan Robinson

he also had Willie Evans who is currently on the scout team for Atlanta. All Jackie recruits.

We have one sure NFL player right now. Pegus. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Nobody (to my knowledge) made an NFL team from last year...Croom's first class.</span> It will take years for Croom to get 6 players in the NFL.

One other point...stars do matter. Almost all the guys listed above had high star rankings.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I put the list together off the top of my head.

I believe Titus caught on with the Brown's practice squad after Miami let him go. However, your points stands.

 

[olemissbydamn]

The media does that because he is afterall the FBSEC coach. They have written article after article promoting affermative action hirings for college and pro teams. They have to have an excuse. They couldn't have posssibly been wrong about some of these hirings.

Your sheep and our sheep love to play this card when defending Orgeron or Croom. It's like a white flag now though. Both Orgeron and Croom inherrited some decent talent. They just had no idea what to do with it. We had around 12 NFL type players on the 2005 squad.

 

[Stormrider81]

This is Croom's program now. He is totally responsible for the roster we have now.

The position of shifting blame in year 5 to the state of the program when he inherited it is inconsistent at best. If the guy was 4-1 right now these same people would be giving him all sorts of credit, and rightfully so. If he would have deserved the credit for winning, he also deserves the blame for losing. The single biggest issue with this team right now is offense, and that is his fault for refusing to make changes there. If he remains stubborn in that area it will cost him his job.

The program was bad when he inherited it. I'll say this, the second half of year 1 we looked pretty decent. We made a ton of progress that year. Problem is, we didn't build on that. We never have with Croom. He can't keep momentum going and build off of success. I hope the guy somehow gets it going, because having Croom as a winner at HC would be great for State. I just don't have much hope that will happen.

Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall. Croom has been too proud to admit he was wrong at various points along the way, and it is truly a shame. Let's say last offseason he says, "this offense just isn't working, and even though we won 8 games we need to make a few changes in order to maintain this level of success." Instead he tried to incorporate a few new ideas with the same bad coaches and it just isn't working.

 

[GeauxTigahs2005]

Croom inherited a team that quit on the field, he had to change the mind set of the players, and try to recruit a different style of player. I really don't think he has improved any of the athleticism nor the talent of this team. Last years team was a culmination of Players playing together for a while. That being said there is no reason this team is 1-4. This being the measuring stick this year, Croom has regressed in my book.

 

[awalkerdog]

pisses me off. All you hear is how bad the program was and how bad the players were and blah...blah...blah.

The Kangs offense at the end of that year ranked 99. Our current "year five" offense is ranked at 103......let that sink in for a minute.....103. Our offense is worst NOW than it was in 2003. If this was any coach, any where else in America he would be **** canned so fast at the end of the year that he would wake up as a defensive line coach for the Saints.

 

[Todd4State]

If something is NOT working by year two, you should probably make changes- at the LATEST.

The only thing that I can say that we are tangibly better at is we commit fewer personal fouls. Of course at least 50% were BS because of the Jackie factor.

 

[Faustdog]

Is anyone else tired of the media and seemingly everyone else wanting to give Croom time because of "the terrible shape the program was in when he was hired." Chris Low just said what I always hear people say, "well, you have to know what kind of mess he inherited."
Really? Every program that gets rid of a coach must have somewhat of a problem, but in my opinion, Croom inherited more talent then than he has now so that excuse just seems like a myth. We had Norwood, Conner, Eric Butler, Burch, David Stewart, Willie Evans, Dockery, Jermamie Johnson, Ronald Fields, Culberson, etc... I agree there may have been some attitude problems, but so what?
Thoughts?

I'm not tired of it, because it's the truth. Croom could not have possibly inherited a tougher situation. I forget the exact number, but that 2003 team lost SEC games by an average of about four touchdowns. There was rampant drug use and a looming probation. And it's much harder to recover in the SEC than in any other conference.

The truth is that we had a few talented players in skill positions, and nothing else but trouble.

 

[patdog]

that was FIVE YEARS AGO. It's no excuse for our pathetic excuse for a football team in 2008. This is Crxxm's team and his team only. I give him credit for cleaning up the mess he inherited (and it was a FUBAR mess other than about a dozen SEC caliber players). But he cleaned that up years ago. The time to show results has come and gone and this team is still no better than it was by the end of Crxxm's first season. It's time to do what most schools do to losing coaches.

 

[cps36]

We scored under 20 in 6 of 12 games in 2003. Losing all those games.

Let that marinate for a sec. Croom has had 40+ scored on him only 7 times TOTAL. I appreciate that since I sat through all the home games played in 2003.

Also in Sherrils thrid year he was 4-5-2 with one win coming by forfeit. By all accounts some people on this board would have called for his head after that year.

 

[whatever.sixpack]

I realize that in year 5 it's solely his program with his players and he should have no excuses, and I agree. But the media still uses this reason, which is ridiculous.
What I'm saying is that this excuse should've never been used in the first place. Yes, we quit in Jackie's last year, but I've seen plenty of teams come out and play with great effort the next year with the same players. A new year energizes everyone and gives them new hope, and it could have for those players too.
Bottom line is that we had more talent then, and he shouldn't have had to take 3 years to turn things around b/c of the supposed "shape" of the program.
Mentality can be changed in a year IMO, especially when you have the two best set of offensive tackles you've had in years, your best RB in school history, one of the most highly recruited QB's in school history, and at least FIVE future NFL guys on defense. (Culberson, Dockery, D Robinson, Fields, Evans/ not to mention solid guys like Jeramie Johnson)

 

[rebelrouseri]

Croom could not have possibly inherited a tougher situation

When you factor in the low expectations and patience it is especially not true.

 

[Stansfield]

We scored under 20 in 6 of 12 games in 2003. Losing all those games.

Let that marinate for a sec. Croom has had 40+ scored on him only 7 times TOTAL. I appreciate that since I sat through all the home games played in 2003.

Also in Sherrils thrid year he was 4-5-2 with one win coming by forfeit. By all accounts some people on this board would have called for his head after that year.

Jackie had two winning seasons his first two years here. He proved that he could win consistently.

 

[dawgstudent]

Also in Sherrils thrid year he was 4-5-2 with one win coming by forfeit. By all accounts some people on this board would have called for his head after that year.

As Stansfield said, we had gone to two bowl games prior. No way we would have fired him. Maybe in 1996, I might have been for a new direction but he ended the season on a very good note with wins over Bama and Ole Miss.

 

[olemissbydamn]

Is anyone else tired of the media and seemingly everyone else wanting to give Croom time because of "the terrible shape the program was in when he was hired." Chris Low just said what I always hear people say, "well, you have to know what kind of mess he inherited."
Really? Every program that gets rid of a coach must have somewhat of a problem, but in my opinion, Croom inherited more talent then than he has now so that excuse just seems like a myth. We had Norwood, Conner, Eric Butler, Burch, David Stewart, Willie Evans, Dockery, Jermamie Johnson, Ronald Fields, Culberson, etc... I agree there may have been some attitude problems, but so what?
Thoughts?

I'm not tired of it, because it's the truth. Croom could not have possibly inherited a tougher situation.
The truth is that we had a few talented players in skill positions, and nothing else but trouble.

Wrong. That is something that has been said in defense of Croom so many times that some now believe it to be the truth.

Signed,

Tommy Tuberville

 

[cps36]

Sherrill did do more to earn his keep. For Croom's sake this year better not end as poorly as it started.

 

[Coach34]

MSU Defense:

2003- 113th (Sherill's last season)
2004- 51st
2005- 29th
2006- 41st
2007- 21st
2008- 46th

MSU offense:

2003- 99th (Sherrill's last year)
2004- 107th
2005- 113th
2006- 103rd
2007- 113th
2008- 103rd

The stats of 2003 were worse than they should have been due to the morale, poor coaching, and Jackie quitting....we had good players on defense and the rankings show that once a better coach like Ellis got in here...now that EJ is gone, notice we have slipped in defense to our lowest ranking since 2004... Crooms repeatedly says that this is his offense, he calls the plays, and if a change needs to be made, he will fire himself. Its apparent to most people the time has come for him to fire himself...The side of the ball he coaches, he has the most influence on- has not once measured up to the shittiness of the horrible program you want to say he took over...
You say he took over the worst situation ever, yet he cant even achieve the results that ****** team achieved? That says alot</p>

 

[Indndawg]

were the same turds defending JWS until the bitter. These ppl are just afraid to change, it could be worse. Duh It can?

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Auburn's suckage this year must be due to Tommy Tuberville inheriting a program in shambles.
Jackie's last three seasons were due to inheriting a program in shambles.

 

[MSUCostanza]

that 2003 defense was loaded with talent. I hope you were being sarcastic. I don't see how you could have watched that train wreck and thought we had any even marginal SEC players. Your hero, Jackie Sherrill, quit recruiting in 2000. Unless you considered Odell Bradley a "good player".

Remember also, that EJ had a bunch of new faces to work with since Slytanic ran off half the "team" he inherited.

I honestly don't get why people don't despite the very thought of Jackie Sherrill. His "phoning it in" from 2000-2003 is why we got in this mess we are in now with this clown Croom. If he had left when he first lost the fire, we could've hired pretty much anyone we wanted and probably not missed a beat. And he'd probably have a 17ing statue in front of the stadium with his name on it.

 

[Coach34]

a much better lurker than poster, and its not even close...

2003's team had given up. That D had a few players on it like Tommy Kelly, Kevin Dockery, Ronald Fields, Jeramie Johnson, Quinton Culberson, Deljuan Robinson...

Sherrill was great for Miss State...the ending wasnt as he or us would have hoped, but we had some of our best years under him. I want to see any football program go under a 2 year NCAA investigation and not suffer.

 

[vhdawg]

...if you have Odell Bradley playing cornerback. You would be no worse off just putting ten players on the field on defense.

 

[patdog]

I want to see any football program go under a 2 year NCAA investigation and not suffer.

(NCAA investigations take time) and damn few of them have suffered as much as we have. Saying the ending of Sherrill's career "wasn't as he or us would have wanted" is like saying the Titanic sprung a small leak. That 17-ing SOB brought our football program down to the level it's been at for the past 8 years. But it's not his fault it stayed that far down for 8 years (and counting).

 

[Coach34]

if you want and thats your choice...but I was there the night we ran out of the tunnel against Tennessee in the Georgia Dome, and I hope they build a damn statue of Jackie out front. Why?

Because of the worst football programs currently in the SEC since 1975- State, SC, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Mississippi- we are the only one of them to make it to Atlanta.

 

[Sutterkane]

but I'd wager none of those schools ever started a year 8-0 either.

and Coach is right, the team simply quit after jackie announced he was leaving after the auburn game in 03. We also had a bunch of brand new morons at coordinator positions that were burned out has beens to share in Jackie's misery.

Croom is not as responsible for the improvement of the defense because Croom has been an offensive coach everywhere he's been. You can thank Ellis Johnson for the improvement defensively. Croom has done little to nothing to help the program.

 

[MississippiHeavyMetalDawg]

Jackie won several big games at State.
Thanks to Jackie, I learned my way around Atlanta after our 4 POST-season trips. Thanks to LT, Crxxm got to see Atlanta too.
Mississippi State was ranked several times during his tenure.
He changed the attitude as State.
Ole Miss HATED him.
Mr. Khayat didn't like him either.
JWS HATED "Mississippi" and didn't try to hide it.

For these things, I am thankful.

During Crxxm's miracle season of 2007, was State ever ranked once?

Unfortunately, JWS returned our program to the depths that he inherited, but I can guarandamntee you that you wouldn't find him "relaxin" during the off week of a 1-4 season.