Re adding Utah from the Salt Lake Tribune

[Buckaineer]

Excerpt:

Now that a merger with the Big 12 and the Pac-12 is off the table, it again turns the conversation to whether the Big 12 will try to add individual teams from the Pac-12. This would likely include Utah, Arizona, Arizona State and Colorado.

At Big 12 media days last week, Yormark said he has been in discussions with individual schools about coming onboard to the Big 12. Multiple coaches from the league also suspect the conference will add around four teams.


Utah’s addition to the Big 12 continues to be attractive for the upcoming media rights contract. It would add another school in the Mountain Time Zone — providing another late-window television game for ESPN or FOX — and also give the conference an instant rivalry with BYU.

“I think we will get up to 16 schools in this conference,” Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy said. “It is all about grabbing some sort of viewership and television market now. It is about hoping you can fit your games into time slots and hoping the three or four networks will buy into it.”

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2022/07/19/big-12-pac-12-merger-is-off/

 

[Buckaineer]

The Salt Lake Paper added this:

"That said, the Pac-12 does look less stable than the Big 12. There is the chance Oregon and Washington could leave down the road. Without them, the Pac-12 becomes a less attractive option."

 

[Jason Voorhees]

The Salt Lake Paper added this:

"That said, the Pac-12 does look less stable than the Big 12. There is the chance Oregon and Washington could leave down the road. Without them, the Pac-12 becomes a less attractive option."

Why don't you post this?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...is-great-news-for-the-oregon-ducks/ar-AAZIpbV

the Ducks should not have wanted to join the Big 12. They are better than that.

 

[WVUALLEN]

There was never going to be a merger. That was the PAC idea as they also tried it with ACC. BIG 12 option was to poach teams from PAC. If Oregon and Washington stay put then the PAC might not fold like you expect. They won't be as strong as before, which really wasn't that strong, but they could stabilize for a few years. If Big 12 was smart they would be talking to Oregon, Washington, Utah, Stanford, Colorado, California instead of those dried up raisins in Arizona.

 

[Buckaineer]

The ducks aren’t better than anything in the BIG 12. Good thing is they can think they are all they want, but it won’t do them a sh!tcan of good once other schools that can leave them behind and the B10 doesn’t come calling.

Everyone knows the PAC is in deep trouble which is why their media and shills were trying so hard to push a merger. But the BIG 12 doesn’t need a merger of the entire thing, they’ll just take in the pieces they need of schools that want to be a part of a better conference.

 

[12375CAT]

If the new B12 media rights deal is significantly > $/team than the P10 new deal is then the B12 will pry loose those P10 teams that will add more $/team once the new pie is divided (again).

 

[Buckaineer]

Look at the Big Ten and what they will likely do.

Theyve stopped expansion for now. Why? Oregon is not only available but begging to get in, so what is the Big Ten doing?
The Big Ten doesn’t want Oregon, they want Notre Dame. If Notre Dame gets in then Stanford from the PAC probably has a good shot, then one would imagine California isn’t just going to be left in the massive Bay Area.

Beyond that multiple ACC schools want to join the SEC or Big Ten. But there is a long timeframe for that due to that GOR.

North Carolina. Virginia. Georgia Tech. Duke. Maybe Pittsburgh which is also AAU. All of these schools have a better shot at becoming Big Ten members than Oregon.

the four corners schools have a decision to make knowing Oregon isn’t trying to remain with them.

 

[op2]

Look at the Big Ten and what they will likely do.

Theyve stopped expansion for now. Why? Oregon is not only available but begging to get in, so what is the Big Ten doing?
The Big Ten doesn’t want Oregon, they want Notre Dame. If Notre Dame gets in then Stanford from the PAC probably has a good shot, then one would imagine California isn’t just going to be left in the massive Bay Area.

Beyond that multiple ACC schools want to join the SEC or Big Ten. But there is a long timeframe for that due to that GOR.

North Carolina. Virginia. Georgia Tech. Duke. Maybe Pittsburgh which is also AAU. All of these schools have a better shot at becoming Big Ten members than Oregon.

the four corners schools have a decision to make knowing Oregon isn’t trying to remain with them.

I think Duke's chances of getting in the Big 10 are slim and Pitt's chances are nil.

 

[Buckaineer]

I think Duke's chances of getting in the Big 10 are slim and Pitt's chances are nil.

I think it depends on what the SEC and Notre Dame do.

if UNC and UVA went to the SEC, I could envision the B10 adding Duke and GT.

Pitt is AAU and before the ACC/ ND deal used to play ND yearly, so there might be a reason to add another ND regular To try to lure the domers with every long term oppone t.

 

[op2]

I think it depends on what the SEC and Notre Dame do.

if UNC and UVA went to the SEC, I could envision the B10 adding Duke and GT.

Pitt is AAU and before the ACC/ ND deal used to play ND yearly, so there might be a reason to add another ND regular To try to lure the domers with every long term oppone t.

I think if UNC and UVA have a choice of the B10 or SEC, they'll take the B10. Their cultures are much more similar to the B10.

 

[Buckaineer]

I think if UNC and UVA have a choice of the B10 or SEC, they'll take the B10. Their cultures are much more similar to the B10.

Its hard to say, I have read things saying they'd go SEC. Academically you'd think that the Big Ten would be the choice for the institutions. Really hard to grasp that either is all that attractive athletically--outside UNC's basketball both would seem to be a "meh" on anyone's board. Just shows that networks care more about markets than many people think. I'm not sure that either had all that great TV ratings either for football games.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Bucky lost in a world of college football evolution.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Its hard to say, I have read things saying they'd go SEC. Academically you'd think that the Big Ten would be the choice for the institutions. Really hard to grasp that either is all that attractive athletically--outside UNC's basketball both would seem to be a "meh" on anyone's board. Just shows that networks care more about markets than many people think. I'm not sure that either had all that great TV ratings either for football games.

Serious question for you. If North Carolina is considered 'meh' by you, how to you think West Virginia is currently looking to the SEC and/or B1G? Are you of the feeling WVU is more attractive than UNC in athletics? academics? geographical location?

 

[WVUALLEN]

Serious question for you. If North Carolina is considered 'meh' by you, how to you think West Virginia is currently looking to the SEC and/or B1G? Are you of the feeling WVU is more attractive than UNC in athletics? academics? geographical location?

He will never answer. But if he does it will have nothing to do with the question but only a bunch of talk about how you want the destruction of the Big 12.

 

[Buckaineer]

Serious question for you. If North Carolina is considered 'meh' by you, how to you think West Virginia is currently looking to the SEC and/or B1G? Are you of the feeling WVU is more attractive than UNC in athletics? academics? geographical location?

West Virginia is not ever going to be considered by the Big Ten because they are not in the AAU Like many many other schools.

WVU has had enough football ( and basketball) success and beaten enough SEC schools over the years in football, plus had high enough tv football ratings that if the SEC grows significantly larger then yes they will consider WVU. WVU hasn’t always been what they currently are under Brown, just a few years back they were in the BIG 12 championship down to the final game, since the 80s they’ve played for a national championship and had other seasons where they narrowly missed out such as when RR threw the Pitt game before bolting for Michigan. Lots of wins ( top 15), lots of fans in seats and traveling, lots of alumni in places like NC and Atlanta and the DC and Pittsburgh areas— yes they have a shot there.

What has UNC ever been in football but an also ran in a pretty weak ACC? outside the large state population which is heavily divided between numerous fanbases, what are they bringing to the football table exactly. A basketball brand?

 

[wvu1962]

I think it depends on what the SEC and Notre Dame do.

if UNC and UVA went to the SEC, I could envision the B10 adding Duke and GT.

Pitt is AAU and before the ACC/ ND deal used to play ND yearly, so there might be a reason to add another ND regular To try to lure the domers with every long term oppone t.

I think Penn state shuts that down

 

[Buckaineer]

I think Penn state shuts that down

No idea if they would or wouldn’t, but being a large AAU P5 school in their immediate footprint certainly wouldn’t rule Pitt out.

 

[sammyk]

I think it depends on what the SEC and Notre Dame do.

if UNC and UVA went to the SEC, I could envision the B10 adding Duke and GT.

Pitt is AAU and before the ACC/ ND deal used to play ND yearly, so there might be a reason to add another ND regular To try to lure the domers with every long term oppone t.

GTech yes. But Duke no. I could see NC state going BIG before Duke

 

[op2]

West Virginia is not ever going to be considered by the Big Ten because they are not in the AAU Like many many other schools.

WVU has had enough football ( and basketball) success and beaten enough SEC schools over the years in football, plus had high enough tv football ratings that if the SEC grows significantly larger then yes they will consider WVU. WVU hasn’t always been what they currently are under Brown, just a few years back they were in the BIG 12 championship down to the final game, since the 80s they’ve played for a national championship and had other seasons where they narrowly missed out such as when RR threw the Pitt game before bolting for Michigan. Lots of wins ( top 15), lots of fans in seats and traveling, lots of alumni in places like NC and Atlanta and the DC and Pittsburgh areas— yes they have a shot there.

What has UNC ever been in football but an also ran in a pretty weak ACC? outside the large state population which is heavily divided between numerous fanbases, what are they bringing to the football table exactly. A basketball brand?

It's not success, it's brand and name and market. That is what UNC and UCLA has that WVU hasn't. I looked it up and WVU is 72 games over .500 that last 20 years while UCLA is 7. Despite your excitement to slam HCNB's record at WVU, his 1 game under .500 record in his three years at WVU is the same as UCLA over the past 3 years. It (unfortunately) doesn't matter that WVU has had as good or better a football program than UCLA or UNC has. UNC is the flagship school in a large and growing state and it has a good academic reputation too, and UCLA is exactly the same, except you could say they're co-flagship with USC in California, but UCLA is the flagship public school.

I wish I was wrong and WVU was in a better position in all this. It wouldn't surprise me if WVU ended up in the ACC but an ACC without multiple other current top ACC schools.

 

[sammyk]

Serious question for you. If North Carolina is considered 'meh' by you, how to you think West Virginia is currently looking to the SEC and/or B1G? Are you of the feeling WVU is more attractive than UNC in athletics? academics? geographical location?

Here is the thing with UNC I live in NC and my son just graduated from UNC so this is from a quasi inside view. UNC is a national No world wide brand. You get off an airplane in England with that interlocking Carolina blue NC people know who they are. They are a better than average football program. But if they actually took footbal as seriously as say Penn state they would be better than Penn state every year. I think Mac Brown is there to do just that plus the academics at UNC are very good . The improvements that’s they have made at UNC are unreal there is a ton of talent in NC that stays here. The population is growing in NC very fast And football is starting to become important also sun dresses look great down here . So yea UNC is the next best after Notre Dame for the BIG them
And Virginia

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Here is the thing with UNC I live in NC and my son just graduated from UNC so this is from a quasi inside view. UNC is a national No world wide brand. You get off an airplane in England with that interlocking Carolina blue NC people know who they are. They are a better than average football program. But if they actually took footbal as seriously as say Penn state they would be better than Penn state every year. I think Mac Brown is there to do just that plus the academics at UNC are very good . The improvements that’s they have made at UNC are unreal there is a ton of talent in NC that stays here. The population is growing in NC very fast And football is starting to become important also sun dresses look great down here . So yea UNC is the next best after Notre Dame for the BIG them
And Virginia

History shows you’re wrong. Mack Brown was at UNC for years his first stent before Texas and he consistently went 10-1. That one loss being FSU every year. The pollsters never would give UNC any respect. Brown publicly said he did all he could do at UNC and moved on to Texas. So no, UNC could never be Penn State. It’s actually surprising he ever came back.

 

[sammyk]

History shows you’re wrong. Mack Brown was at UNC for years his first stent before Texas and he consistently went 10-1. That one loss being FSU every year. The pollsters never would give UNC any respect. Brown publicly said he did all he could do at UNC and moved on to Texas. So no, UNC could never be Penn State. It’s actually surprising he ever came back.

Oh they could. And I am a Penn state fan. UNC is going to be very very attractive for both the SEC and BIG.

 

[quinnjj]

GTech yes. But Duke no. I could see NC state going BIG before Duke

I think Duke and North Carolina are a marriage because that is the most highly viewed basketball game almost every year. No matter the sport if you get a game that can draw 4 million viewers you can’t pass it up.

 

[sammyk]

I think Duke and North Carolina are a marriage because that is the most highly viewed basketball game almost every year. No matter the sport if you get a game that can draw 4 million viewers you can’t pass it up.

I just don’t see it I could be wrong it is “the” basketball game of the year but Duke brings zero in football. Zero. But you might be right

 

[WVUALLEN]

I think Duke and North Carolina are a marriage because that is the most highly viewed basketball game almost every year. No matter the sport if you get a game that can draw 4 million viewers you can’t pass it up.

UNC would kick Duke in the nuts on the way out the door if they were offered SEC or B1G.

 

[sammyk]

UNC would kick Duke in the nuts on the way out the door if they were offered SEC or B1G.

I agree. The UNC President is from Latrobe PA. And the AD is from Flint Michigan And has ties to the BIG. So yes

 

[WVUALLEN]

The ducks aren’t better than anything in the BIG 12. Good thing is they can think they are all they want, but it won’t do them a sh!tcan of good once other schools that can leave them behind and the B10 doesn’t come calling.

Everyone knows the PAC is in deep trouble which is why their media and shills were trying so hard to push a merger. But the BIG 12 doesn’t need a merger of the entire thing, they’ll just take in the pieces they need of schools that want to be a part of a better conference.

Oregon since 2000
202-77 (20 bowl games)

Last 10 years
91-36 (9 Bowls 1 Playoff and 1 National Championship Game)

Big 12 should go after
Oregon
Washington
California
Stanford
Colorado
Utah
ASU
Arizona

Kansas and Arizona in basketball would be killer game. (they could play for cheaters title)

Get to 20 before Big 10 and SEC

West
Oregon
Washington
California
Stanford
Colorado
Utah
ASU
Arizona
BYU
Texas Tech

East
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
WVU

They could call it

BIG 12+8=20 PAC of Leftovers

 

[sammyk]

I like Washington and Oregon. If I am the Big 10 or Big 12 I would go after both of them. The Big 12 looking at Utah Colorado Arizona and Arizona St are on the right track. I think they should go after those 4 then Memphis. After that the Big 12 has choices do they continue picking up the west coast or get more eastern teams like USF ODU UNCC Ect

 

[Tylerite]

Oregon since 2000
202-77 (20 bowl games)

Last 10 years
91-36 (9 Bowls 1 Playoff and 1 National Championship Game)

Big 12 should go after
Oregon
Washington
California
Stanford
Colorado
Utah
ASU
Arizona

Kansas and Arizona in basketball would be killer game. (they could play for cheaters title)

Get to 20 before Big 10 and SEC

West
Oregon
Washington
California
Stanford
Colorado
Utah
ASU
Arizona
BYU
Texas Tech

East
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
WVU

They could call it

BIG 12+8=20 PAC of Leftovers

Might as well go to 24. Put Washington State, Oregon State in the west; and Memphis, USF in the east.

 

[Buckaineer]

GTech yes. But Duke no. I could see NC state going BIG before Duke

NC State is not AAU- won’t be considered by Big Ten. Dukes brand might interest the SEC more than NC State.

 

[Buckaineer]

It's not success, it's brand and name and market. That is what UNC and UCLA has that WVU hasn't. I looked it up and WVU is 72 games over .500 that last 20 years while UCLA is 7. Despite your excitement to slam HCNB's record at WVU, his 1 game under .500 record in his three years at WVU is the same as UCLA over the past 3 years. It (unfortunately) doesn't matter that WVU has had as good or better a football program than UCLA or UNC has. UNC is the flagship school in a large and growing state and it has a good academic reputation too, and UCLA is exactly the same, except you could say they're co-flagship with USC in California, but UCLA is the flagship public school.

I wish I was wrong and WVU was in a better position in all this. It wouldn't surprise me if WVU ended up in the ACC but an ACC without multiple other current top ACC schools.

UNC isn’t a football brand, UCLA is much more of a football brand as UNC.

WVU has more of a football brand than UNC. But they have the large state population even though it is diluted among 5 or more schools.

 

[Buckaineer]

I like Washington and Oregon. If I am the Big 10 or Big 12 I would go after both of them. The Big 12 looking at Utah Colorado Arizona and Arizona St are on the right track. I think they should go after those 4 then Memphis. After that the Big 12 has choices do they continue picking up the west coast or get more eastern teams like USF ODU UNCC Ect

Until you know what happens to the ACC and who is left there then you have to pause. Don’t want to go to big too quick and money also plays a part.

 

[Buckaineer]

History shows you’re wrong. Mack Brown was at UNC for years his first stent before Texas and he consistently went 10-1. That one loss being FSU every year. The pollsters never would give UNC any respect. Brown publicly said he did all he could do at UNC and moved on to Texas. So no, UNC could never be Penn State. It’s actually surprising he ever came back.

And this is the sort of disinformation that keeps being spread to pump up a program and a conference, neither of which was very good during a 20 plus year stretch until after Holgorsen and WVU stomped Clemson in the Sugar bowl and ESPN began pushing them to recruits to promote the ACC network.

UNC had a run of 10 win seasons? When was that exactly? UNC is a middling football program in the weakest power conference and always has been. They have one 10 or more win seasons in the past 23 years! WVU in the same period has FIVE 10 plus win seasons

here are UNC football records from 1999 on

1999- 3-8
2000- 6-5
2001- 8-5
2002-3-9
2003- 2-10
2004- 6-6
2005- 5-6
2006- 3-9
2007- 4-8
2008- 8-5
2009- 8-5
2010- 8-5
2011-7-6
2012- 8-4
2013- 7-6
2014- 6-7
2015- 11-3
2016- 8-5
2017- 3-9
2018- 2-9
2019- 7-6
2020- 8-4
2021- 6-7

obviously there are more ACC fans on this board than WVU fans, trying to downrate WVU and its conference for their benefit. I mean I understand ACC people don’t believe in facts, but honestly, the ACC has not been a strong conference in football and UNC has never been close to being a stronger football brand than WVU. Population surrounding them makes them attractive even if people aren’t watching them on tv.

 

[WVUALLEN]

ISU removes itself from AAU status.

https://www.thegazette.com/higher-e...hy-iowa-state-left-the-aau-and-what-it-means/

Peterson, who has been at ISU since 2009, called the departure “the academic equivalent of leaving the Big 12” — a Power Five athletic conference — for the Mid-American Conference.

“Even if nothing else changes,” he said, “that sort of says who we think we are and who we think our peers are. And it says we no longer think our peers are the AAU schools.”

That Leaves Kansas and Texas as the only Big 12 AAU members. Texas and OU are leaving the Big 12 for the SEC. That will leave just Kansas as the only AAU member.

 

[Buckaineer]

Nebraska of the Big Ten left Or was moved out of AAU status a decade ago
Syracuse of the ACC left or was moved out of AAU status not long ago- within the past decade.

obviously AAU is a nice society if you are involved in research grants, has nothing to do with athletics.

Has nothing to do with being a top research institution either as most BIG 12 schools including WVU are in the top tier of classification as a research university per Carnegie just the same as those AAU schools.

 

[WVUALLEN]

And this is the sort of disinformation that keeps being spread to pump up a program and a conference, neither of which was very good during a 20 plus year stretch until after Holgorsen and WVU stomped Clemson in the Sugar bowl and ESPN began pushing them to recruits to promote the ACC network.

UNC had a run of 10 win seasons? When was that exactly? UNC is a middling football program in the weakest power conference and always has been. They have one 10 or more win seasons in the past 23 years ( and before that too)! WVU in the same period has FIVE 10 plus win seasons

here are UNC football records from 1999 on

1999- 3-8
2000- 6-5
2001- 8-5
2002-3-9
2003- 2-10
2004- 6-6
2005- 5-6
2006- 3-9
2007- 4-8
2008- 8-5
2009- 8-5
2010- 8-5
2011-7-6
2012- 8-4
2013- 7-6
2014- 6-7
2015- 11-3
2016- 8-5
2017- 3-9
2018- 2-9
2019- 7-6
2020- 8-4
2021- 6-7

obviously there are more ACC fans on this board than WVU fans, trying to downrate WVU and its conference for their benefit. I mean I understand ACC people don’t believe in facts, but honestly, the ACC has not been a strong conference in football and UNC has never been close to being a stronger football brand than WVU. Population surrounding them makes them attractive even if people aren’t watching them on tv.

When will you learn it's not always about wins and losses?

USC and UCLA have given the Big 10 a 25% increase in value.

UNC gives Big 10 and the SEC the state of North Carolina and Charlotte area. UVA, UNC, Pitt, GT - the only AAU schools in ACC.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Nebraska of the Big Ten left Or was moved out of AAU status a decade ago
Syracuse of the ACC left or was moved out of AAU status not long ago- within the past decade.

obviously AAU is a nice society if you are involved in research grants, has nothing to do with athletics.

Has nothing to do with being a top research institution either as most BIG 12 schools including WVU are in the top tier of classification as a research university per Carnegie just the same as those AAU schools.

According to KingCoal Nebraska was AAU when they were accepted into the conference before being kicked out of AAU.

Association of American Universities is composed of America's leading research universities.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

And this is the sort of disinformation that keeps being spread to pump up a program and a conference, neither of which was very good during a 20 plus year stretch until after Holgorsen and WVU stomped Clemson in the Sugar bowl and ESPN began pushing them to recruits to promote the ACC network.

UNC had a run of 10 win seasons? When was that exactly? UNC is a middling football program in the weakest power conference and always has been. They have one 10 or more win seasons in the past 23 years! WVU in the same period has FIVE 10 plus win seasons

here are UNC football records from 1999 on

1999- 3-8
2000- 6-5
2001- 8-5
2002-3-9
2003- 2-10
2004- 6-6
2005- 5-6
2006- 3-9
2007- 4-8
2008- 8-5
2009- 8-5
2010- 8-5
2011-7-6
2012- 8-4
2013- 7-6
2014- 6-7
2015- 11-3
2016- 8-5
2017- 3-9
2018- 2-9
2019- 7-6
2020- 8-4
2021- 6-7

obviously there are more ACC fans on this board than WVU fans, trying to downrate WVU and its conference for their benefit. I mean I understand ACC people don’t believe in facts, but honestly, the ACC has not been a strong conference in football and UNC has never been close to being a stronger football brand than WVU. Population surrounding them makes them attractive even if people aren’t watching them on tv.

You should probably pay more attention. I said it was during Mack Brown’s first tenure at UNC. Your timeline starts at 1999. Mack Brown had already left prior and was at Texas.

 

[WVUALLEN]

You should probably pay more attention. I said it was during Mack Brown’s first tenure at UNC. Your timeline starts at 1999. Mack Brown had already left prior and was at Texas.

Correct. Mack Brown was only at UNC 1988-1997. This is probably why he only chose 1999-2021.

Mack Brown at UNC 69-46-1 (according to Bucky those type numbers make him the greatest coach of all time) All his years including the last 3 Brown is 90-63-1 (55-47-1).

 

[Buckaineer]

You should probably pay more attention. I said it was during Mack Brown’s first tenure at UNC. Your timeline starts at 1999. Mack Brown had already left prior and was at Texas.

He had a few 10 win seasons and around that UNC was nothing special, as they have continued through 2022.
And WVU had several consecutive 11 win seasons more recently but of course you ACC fans and others ignore that.