Reds

[kywildcatsfan#1]

In tonight's start vs. Giants SP Weaver strikes out 6 batters and the 1st and 3rd innings had 2 outs and gave up a Solo homer in 1st and 3-run homer in 3rd with 2 outs in both innings. Weaver had 61 pitches in 3 innings and with 6 strikeouts wasn't pitching bad for the Reds. Weaver gave up the big 2 out 3-run homer in the 3rd and same in 1st with a solo homer with 2 outs. Weaver could had a 2 hit shutout heading into the 4th inning if it wasn't for the big 2 out Homers he gave up for 4 runs. We saw in the 2nd game that this Cincinnati Reds offense can't be shutdown for too long. The Reds need Greene and Lodolo back and no one has given a date when either Greene or Lodolo will return to the starting rotation. The Reds starting pitching over these last 8 games hasn't been terrible and if you look at the numbers most starters have been going 6 or so innings giving up 2 or 3 runs. Tonight wasn't a good start for Weaver but the Reds should have won the 2nd game tonight. If the Reds can just get back Greene now to go with Abbott, Ashcraft, Lively, and Williamson until Lodolo gets back later. Then have Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Ashcraft, Lively or Williamson as 5th starter and the other in Long relief. The Reds need to go out and get 2 or 3 reliable relievers to add to the staff and the Pitching could be good for remainder of season. I still believe with this Reds offense and if they can get Greene and Lodolo back then the Reds could make that run to the playoffs. We just need to get those 2 starters back from injury and add 2 or 3 good reliever

If Weaver could keep the ball in the yard he may be better off. A fly ball pitcher just doesn't work all that well in Cincinnati with GABP being a hitter's paradise. He has given up the 10th most home runs in all of MLB this season. He has moments in the game where his stuff looks decent but can never seem to put it all together for an entire start. He has a 7.22 ERA, Reds aren't going anywhere in the postseason if they have to count on him. I get the neat stat they win the ball games most times he is in, not last night of course and it is not due to him pitching that great. Otherwise he would have more than 2 wins. He has the best run support on the team and that is why Cincinnati has been winning win he takes the mound.

Once this rotation is at full strength, Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo, Abbott & Williamson that is 5 options that the Reds have to roll with. Weaver and Lively can be stashed in middle relief or a 6th starter to skip starts or push the guys back on start. I have my doubts that the Reds are going to splurge for the costs of pitching out there on the market and hope Krall could pull something out that won't cost the Reds much. If not these suggestions are some options within the organization that could save the bullpen. As long as Lively is effective in the rotation, I want to see him out there while these starters are on the IL. Just hope it is not too late and the Reds not fall out of the race while the team battles to get fully healthy.

 

[kyblue'92]

Bullpen has looked tired since sometime in June. It's been a few weeks since even Alexis Diaz looked as sharp and dominant as he was earlier in the year. It's not going to change itself just past the halfway point either. Somehow, someway another reliable arm needs to be added.

 

[jameslee32]

I'd rather have Lively as a 5th starter but that's just me. Could be that he's more suitable for the bullpen though. In that case Williamson or Weaver get that slot unless it's back to the David Bell 6-man rotation.

 

[maysvilleky]

If they weather the storm through July, the 2nd half schedule in August-September eases up and don't have to play Milwaukee anymore. Will make the series a little over a week from now so huge to gain back any ground head to head.

Got to stay in touch with the Brewers for those games to be meaningful.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

I'd rather have Lively as a 5th starter but that's just me. Could be that he's more suitable for the bullpen though. In that case Williamson or Weaver get that slot unless it's back to the David Bell 6-man rotation.

Williamson needs to stay in the rotation. Much more upside as one of our top prospects and just finding his groove lately. Also another lefty option in addition to Abbott. Bouncing Williamson around right now does not do anything for his long term development and while Lively is hot right now, still a career journeyman and nothing to suggest this will last long term for him.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

Agree with you that this offense has seemingly gotten away from what was working earlier this year and does look different. I actually expected the bullpen to be a strength and SP too at the start of the season. Injuries have gotten in the way and overuse of the bullpen is setting in. Even Barry Larkin is alluding to how these relievers are overworked especially with Farmer last night.

The only one I think exceeded my expectations has been Alex Young, did not know what we were going to get with him. Gibaut & Duarte looked good in ST. As frustrating as Gibaut can be, he can get the job done in high leverage situations with 8 wins thought it does not always look pretty like yesterday not coming through. Cruz picking up where he was in 2022 thankfully. A solid setup man would do wonders for this team going forward.

At this point, I can't see Levi Stoudt becoming a starter in Cincinnati and never goes deep in ball games anyway. Especially with Richardson, Petty, Phillips, the recent college draft picks and the rotation as it stands once fully healthy. Why not try him in relief like they did with Santillan after starting in 2021 and moving him to the pen later in the year like Sims a few years ago coming in as a starter and the setup man for Diaz. If he can eat 2-3 innings like Hoffman did would save some arm down the stretch. Hell, even pitchers like Wainwright, Bumgarner, David Price have worked out of the pen on contending teams early in their careers before they became full-time starters.

I should have reserved judgment on Law coming back from injury since he was serviceable last year and prior to the injury this season. Santillan has a lot to prove still going back to the 2021 season and has command issues. Hopefully that works itself out but still a lot to prove. I have no expectations for Dunn & Antone in 2023 if and when see them for as long as they have been out.

Stoudt recalled today, Duarte optioned.

 

[kyblue'92]

Got to stay in touch with the Brewers for those games to be meaningful.

Lets see what happens, still over 1/3 of the season left and pitchers will start to come back when the Reds get to those games in August. It was merely an observation for those losing their minds over a bad week of games that there is light at the end of the tunnel with the Aug-Sep schedule. A losing streak was bound to happen and not the end of the world for this team. To be this far ahead in 2023 compared to last year, I'm happy to be above .500.

 

[kyblue'92]

Williamson needs to stay in the rotation. Much more upside as one of our top prospects and just finding his groove lately. Also another lefty option in addition to Abbott. Bouncing Williamson around right now does not do anything for his long term development and while Lively is hot right now, still a career journeyman and nothing to suggest this will last long term for him.

Williamson's rotation spot is not in jeopardy. Would be shocked if Bell or anyone in the organization yanked him given he was the #7 rated overall prospect in the Reds system coming into the season when they envisioned him making the rotation out of ST. Didn't happen at first and has been snake bit by some rain shortened starts. Impressed how he took one for the team coming out after the rain delay. You rarely see that happening. One of the centerpieces of that Winker/Suarez trade to Seattle. Seeing how Winker has been struggling to stay healthy, Suarez boom or bust as a power hitter, liking the trade receiving Fraley & Williamson. Dunn can't stay healthy.

 

[kyblue'92]

This is why I am right. No one is untouchable in professional sports. Players like India, Steer and Benson are a dime a dozen...nothing special about either...just solid players, nothing more.

EDC and CES...you chuck one for an ace or a 2. Period.

If Steer, India & Benson are a dime a dozen, fill my team up then. Can you name some candidates for ace pitchers who would even be remotely possible to be traded for such prospects we need to 'pump the brakes' on? That 3-run blast by Benson was pretty awesome! Benson, 2nd highest OPS since being recalled in May only behind Ohtani.

 

[jameslee32]

Williamson needs to stay in the rotation. Much more upside as one of our top prospects and just finding his groove lately. Also another lefty option in addition to Abbott. Bouncing Williamson around right now does not do anything for his long term development and while Lively is hot right now, still a career journeyman and nothing to suggest this will last long term for him.

Couldn't care less what the baseball card or draft slot says. The best players need to play and more importantly, it really needs to be the culture going forward. Senzel, Jesse Winker and Phil Ervin should be living proof of that being 1st round draft choices. The Reds used to be the team that reached for former 1st rounders looking for new scenery. No more! Keep the good ones. Draft them. Develop them. Promote them to Cincinnati. That said, I'm not even sure Lively is healthy enough to make his next start but they really need him right now.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

Couldn't care less what the baseball card or draft slot says. The best players need to play and more importantly, it really needs to be the culture going forward. Senzel, Jesse Winker and Phil Ervin should be living proof of that being 1st round draft choices. The Reds used to be the team that reached for former 1st rounders looking for new scenery. No more! Keep the good ones. Draft them. Develop them. Promote them to Cincinnati. That said, I'm not even sure Lively is healthy enough to make his next start but they really need him right now.

You're missing my point, whether you care about the back of the baseball card or draft selection has no bearing. The man is living up to his prospect pedigree right now and there is zero reason to mess with his success at the moment. Both of them are in the rotation for right now and not about to be replaced, I'm simply talking going forward what I think is best for this team. You can disagree if you want, that's fine but I will stand by my statement and would be surprised if it isn't Williamson the last man standing if this rotation ever gets to full health. You want to build for the future, going with the promising 25-year old is how you do it. Winker, former NL All-Star starter, just saying. Doesn't mean everyone here is going to be a bust, this is irrelevant to Brandon Williamson. Rosecrans reporting Lively expects to make his next start, already listed as a probable vs Arizona.

 

[jameslee32]

You're missing my point, whether you care about the back of the baseball card or draft selection has no bearing. The man is living up to his prospect pedigree right now and there is zero reason to mess with his success at the moment. Both of them are in the rotation for right now and not about to be replaced, I'm simply talking going forward what I think is best for this team. You can disagree if you want, that's fine but I will stand by my statement and would be surprised if it isn't Williamson the last man standing if this rotation ever gets to full health. You want to build for the future, going with the promising 25-year old is how you do it. Winker, former NL All-Star starter, just saying. Doesn't mean everyone here is going to be a bust, this is irrelevant to Brandon Williamson. Rosecrans reporting Lively expects to make his next start, already listed as a probable vs Arizona.

I absolutely hated to see WInker go but he's barely hit at all since the trade. Ervin is out of baseball I believe. Senzel's development is truly a journeyman's struggle except with only one team and a lot of injuries. You do what's best for the team. Always. And maybe that's Williamson. We'll see. If Lively keeps pitching well, he should join him whether that's a 5 or 6-man rotation. His past is irrelevant. Just my .02 cents. Nothing more.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

I absolutely hated to see WInker go but he's barely hit at all since the trade. Ervin is out of baseball I believe. Senzel's development is truly a journeyman's struggle except with only one team and a lot of injuries. You do what's best for the team. Always. And maybe that's Williamson. We'll see. If Lively keeps pitching well, he should join him whether that's a 5 or 6-man rotation. Just my .02 cents. Nothing more.

Doubtful he ever gets close to his 2021 season after all of those injuries mounting up at this stage of his career. Winker was a successful hitter in Cincinnati, .288 overall but his injury history has derailed him. Had 2 offseason surgeries, a meniscus repair to his left knee and a cervical disc replacement. Maybe the Reds make the postseason if he could have stayed healthy in 2021.

 

[jameslee32]

Doubtful he ever gets close to his 2021 season after all of those injuries mounting up at this stage of his career. Winker was a successful hitter in Cincinnati, .288 overall but his injury history has derailed him. Had 2 offseason surgeries, a meniscus repair to his left knee and a cervical disc replacement. Maybe the Reds make the postseason if he could have stayed healthy in 2021.

As much as I liked Jesse as a player and person, the Reds did the right thing for the team.
Hindsight is always 20-20 though.
The best ability is availability.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

As much as I liked Jesse as a player and person, the Reds did the right thing for the team.
Hindsight is always 20-20 though.
The best ability is availability.

Turned out to be a good trade I agree. Unloaded salary, Winker if healthy was a huge loss but turns out he hasn't been. Fraley has obviously produced more than Winker filling his shoes in the outfield since the start of 2022 no doubt and Suarez's strikeouts were an issue. Felt like he peaked in 2019 and downhill since. An $11 million .226 hitter this year. Multiple infield options now that I don't think anyone is upset about that trade.

 

[kywildcatsfan#1]

Bullpen has looked tired since sometime in June. It's been a few weeks since even Alexis Diaz looked as sharp and dominant as he was earlier in the year. It's not going to change itself just past the halfway point either. Somehow, someway another reliable arm needs to be added.

Clean inning for save #27 tonight. Needed this win, first after the All-Star break.

 

[jameslee32]

Turned out to be a good trade I agree. Unloaded salary, Winker if healthy was a huge loss but turns out he hasn't been. Fraley has obviously produced more than Winker filling his shoes in the outfield since the start of 2022 no doubt and Suarez's strikeouts were an issue. Felt like he peaked in 2019 and downhill since. An $11 million .226 hitter this year. Multiple infield options now that I don't think anyone is upset about that trade.

It was the timing that I understand much better now as Winker was the best Reds hitter at one point but was injury prone even then.

Tyler Mahle was likely the best pitcher at one point as well. Again it was the timing but probably just a coincidence because up until the trade he was durable. Nobody could predict him having Tommy John surgery but the haul they got in return was Spencer Steer, CES and what became Will Benson in the Cleveland trade. What a deal!

Diaz dealing! Reds win 3-2!

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

It was the timing that I understand much better now as Winker was the best Reds hitter at one point but was injury prone even then.

Tyler Mahle was likely the best pitcher at one point as well. Again it was the timing but probably just a coincidence because up until the trade he was durable. Nobody could predict him having Tommy John surgery but the haul they got in return was Spencer Steer, CES and what became Will Benson in the Cleveland trade. What a deal!

Diaz dealing! Reds win 3-2!

The crazy thing is with the premium on starting pitching, I think the Reds could demand a haul for Mahle all over again with the league hurting for SP this year and would get it. For sure on Castillo. I think Mahle is a 3-4 on a contending team like he was behind Bauer, Castillo & Gray in 2020 on a winning team like that. Last year our Opening Day Starter with Castillo out. Can't ever predict timing of injuries especially TJ surgery and though with Winker the injury history was there and Seattle had to know the risks before making the deal. Never exceeded 456 ABs in any season.

 

[kywildcatsfan#1]

Stoudt recalled today, Duarte optioned.

Guess that makes me smart

 

[maysvilleky]

Finally a win!

 

[Mr Schwump]

God, Sadak's incessant bitching about the strike zone gets old. Sends me diving for the mute button on the remote control.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

5-1 Reds! Abbott was electric. 8 scoreless innings for the longest start by a Reds in '23, only 1 hit. EDLC with a 99.8 MPH assist to nail Flores at the plate. 3 hits, home runs & 2 RBIs for Maile. 2 hits for Fraley, India & Benson. Glad to see Wilmer Flores go.

 

[jameslee32]

Abbott was dominant!

 

[kyblue'92]

Some of the strike calls especially on Benson there late were ******** but in the end, Reds pull it out. 2 in a row!

 

[TCurtis75_rivals88839]

God, Sadak's incessant bitching about the strike zone gets old. Sends me diving for the mute button on the remote control.

It’s valid criticism. Benson was screwed on a couple of strike calls today. All season long many strikes have been called balls while many balls have been called strikes. More than usual with the same pitch being called a ball and then a strike right after each other.

 

[Mr Schwump]

It’s valid criticism. Benson was screwed on a couple of strike calls today. All season long many strikes have been called balls while many balls have been called strikes. More than usual with the same pitch being called a ball and then a strike right after each other.

My problem with Sadak is he makes it appear umps are conspiring against the Reds and nothing is further from the truth. They make bad calls, no question, but when Reds pitchers benefit from those calls Sadak gets lockjaw. It happens, let it go.

 

[trueblujr]

You could make the case the Reds might need to shake up their training staff with the injuries that have been dealt their ways but without being on the inside knowing what their routine is for strength and conditioning it is just speculation on something we don't have all of the answers about. It is concerning that Greene is having to do a mid-season core strengthening program during rehab. Conditioning should take place during the offseason and could be as much Greene's fault as anyone here not being in the appropriate shape for a full season. Fortunately that is a problem than can be fixed instead of another arm injury that requires a 2nd TJ surgery for him.

That’s been the good thing about all of the big three’s injuries this season, even though they’re out a long time, none of the injuries were arm related.

I’ll say this though. Greene may have been the opening day starter, but Abbott is rapidly gaining ground as being the ace of the staff.

 

[trueblujr]

Bound to catch up to them at some point with this banged up starting rotation and taxed bullpen. The run they had might be sustainable with a full deck. Be nice to put the offense and pitching together at some point down the stretch.

Hopefully Antone coming back soon and possibly even Gutierrez by September

 

[kyblue'92]

That’s been the good thing about all of the big three’s injuries this season, even though they’re out a long time, none of the injuries were arm related.

I’ll say this though. Greene may have been the opening day starter, but Abbott is rapidly gaining ground as being the ace of the staff.

Absolutely! Hopefully he stays healthy and continue to build on his success this year, get Greene back to full strength, need Lodolo healthy and on track. Lively has been pitching well, Williamson getting better. The future is bright, not to mention the SP prospects in the organization.

 

[kywildcatsfan#1]

Hopefully Antone coming back soon and possibly even Gutierrez by September

Saw some positive things regarding those 2 coming back maybe even in August, at least Antone. Will need a few games to get back to where they were after so long but those are some fresh arms. Even Justin Dunn could be back to give the Reds another option, looking like September for him. If Dunn can pitch a couple of innings here or there, nothing to strenuous with his arm injury history then it should all work out.

 

[maysvilleky]

It’s valid criticism. Benson was screwed on a couple of strike calls today. All season long many strikes have been called balls while many balls have been called strikes. More than usual with the same pitch being called a ball and then a strike right after each other.

That catcher for SF framed every pitch and was good at it. The ump only had one look at the actual position of a pitch. If he even hesitated, the glove was in the strike zone. I think they said he was 2nd in all of baseball for getting non strikes called as strikes for his pitchers.

 

[TCurtis75_rivals88839]

That catcher for SF framed every pitch and was good at it. The ump only had one look at the actual position of a pitch. If he even hesitated, the glove was in the strike zone. I think they said he was 2nd in all of baseball for getting non strikes called as strikes for his pitchers.

Personally, I hate framing pitches. That is something they need to get rid of along with the shift.

 

[maysvilleky]

Personally, I hate framing pitches. That is something they need to get rid of along with the shift.

It should be like a flop in BB!

 

[jameslee32]

Arizona will be a great test for starters not named Abbott and Ashcraft. They have one of the best road records in baseball.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Arizona will be a great test for starters not named Abbott and Ashcraft. They have one of the best road records in baseball.

So far D'backs are beating themselves.

 

[TCurtis75_rivals88839]

I’ve questioned many of David Bells decisions with regards to lineups and when he pulls pitchers. There is no world in which he should have EDLC hitting lead off. The fact that he continues to stick with that is infuriating.

 

[jameslee32]

So far D'backs are beating themselves.

I approve this message. AZ walked 7 batters. Diaz was filthy again! Reds win 9-6.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

Love seeing Benson going opposite field and that conversation with Joey Votto on the plane ride back from Boston has done wonders for the direction of his career. Hope Votto will stick around as an instructor/advisor to the Reds working with the hitters well after his playing days are done. Even the rookies crediting him with helping them while he was down in Louisville. 3 wins in a row. Brewers lost to Atlanta.

 

[drew_ukfan_rivals]

AZ is a good team but they have a Pfaadt (Bellarmine product) starting today and a bullpen game likely tomorrow, a sweep would be nice.

 

[AFKY_Blue_RedsBengals]

EDLC getting the day off and Spencer Steer is leading off.