Ref Questions

[BataviaDogs1]

1.) Can kicker on kick off be offsides with his plant foot?

2.) The rule for helmet coming off of a player and sitting out a play; can the team use a timeout to get the player that lost helmet back in game for the next play?

TIA

 

[Zebra2]

1.) Can kicker on kick off be offsides with his plant foot?

2.) The rule for helmet coming off of a player and sitting out a play; can the team use a timeout to get the player that lost helmet back in game for the next play?

TIA

1. Yes

2. No.

Z

 

[Goomlah]

what Zebra said

 

[Chief321]

it is not offsides on the kicker if his plant foot is past the line. The kicker and/or holder are the only ones who can be beyond the free kick line on a kick off

 

[linetogain]

1.No
2.No

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

What? Discrepancy amongst our edgy Nation officials? Time for a zebra huddle up conference!!

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

also - one more question for the refs.

This happened at least two times in the WV/HC game. If a defensive players helmet comes off while being blocked (no touching of the defensive guys facemask) is it an automatic personal foul for 15 yards for "unnecessary roughness"?

 

[Goomlah]

also - one more question for the refs.

This happened at least two times in the WV/HC game. If a defensive players helmet comes off while being blocked (no touching of the defensive guys facemask) is it an automatic personal foul for 15 yards for "unnecessary roughness"?

No unless it was some sort of deliberate foul. If all the action was deemed to be legal then the only reprecussion is the player whose helmet came off has to sit for 1 play.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

No unless it was some sort of deliberate foul. If all the action was deemed to be legal then the only reprecussion is the player whose helmet came off has to sit for 1 play.

Thanks!! Then I think only 3 of the 5 unnecessary roughness/personal fouls flagged on Waubonsie were on target calls. Unless the refs deemed the blocking was still going on after the whistle blew. If not then the The other two I think accidentally got lumped in with the legit ones....(guilty by association?)

 

[ref2]

rule 6-2-a
no player other then the kicker and the holder for a place kick, may be beyond his free kick line;

So the answer is NO he can not be offside. but we don't call it off side we call it encroachment

 

[Zebra2]

What? Discrepancy amongst our edgy Nation officials? Time for a zebra huddle up conference!!

Sorry I read the first question wrong the answer is No.

Z

 

[PRokie]

Fellas,
I know this will be a touchy subject, but I have to ask...

Are there any health/mobility requirements in any of these crews?

Having worn the stripes many moons ago in my late 20's, I quit officiating in Oklahoma due to the good ole' boy syndrome, and the "crews" perspective. A young kid couldnt move up because if you had better than average mobility which allowed you to be closer to the play, you were never going anywhere because a lot of the crews did not want you around..

That being said, our game this weekend had a crew of 5 that easily breaks the 1250 club.
The head linesman could not get more than a few yards up field at best.

1. This is a safety issue for the kids.
2. You cannot even remotely make a call on out of bounds upfield, which was demonstrated more than once.

There is not a question in my mind these guys were giving the very best effort they could, I just wonder if this is the way to go.

I wish I could officiate these days, but hell, I can't move any better

 

[Goomlah]

Fellas,
I know this will be a touchy subject, but I have to ask...

Are there any health/mobility requirements in any of these crews?

Having worn the stripes many moons ago in my late 20's, I quit officiating in Oklahoma due to the good ole' boy syndrome, and the "crews" perspective. A young kid couldnt move up because if you had better than average mobility which allowed you to be closer to the play, you were never going anywhere because a lot of the crews did not want you around..

That being said, our game this weekend had a crew of 5 that easily breaks the 1250 club.
The head linesman could not get more than a few yards up field at best.

1. This is a safety issue for the kids.
2. You cannot even remotely make a call on out of bounds upfield, which was demonstrated more than once.

There is not a question in my mind these guys were giving the very best effort they could, I just wonder if this is the way to go.

I wish I could officiate these days, but hell, I can't move any better

I was going to post this after the season but since you brought it up now here goes,...

WE NEED MORE OFFICIALS! I don't even care what sport but football especially. It's not that hard to become a licensed official.

Literally go this website:

http://ihsa.org/Officials/HowtoBecomeaLicensedOfficial.aspx

You fill a few things out, figure out what sports you want to do, and there you go. Here's the thing that no one seems to mention. If you have a son or daughter who wants to make a little extra money, being an official makes you very good money. Youth level games range around $25-$35 bucks a game for not a lot of time spent (maybe 90 minutes a game max??), so your kid makes around $150 a weekend and your kid gets to learn life skills and conflict resolution and a lot of other good things.

Officiating is the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The people I've met, the places I've gotten to go, ok some of the basketball coaches are out of control but I could always deal with that. If you have questions about becoming an official or how to get started after you file with the IHSA e-mail me at [email protected] and I will do my best to help you out.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Fellas,
I know this will be a touchy subject, but I have to ask...

Are there any health/mobility requirements in any of these crews?

Having worn the stripes many moons ago in my late 20's, I quit officiating in Oklahoma due to the good ole' boy syndrome, and the "crews" perspective. A young kid couldnt move up because if you had better than average mobility which allowed you to be closer to the play, you were never going anywhere because a lot of the crews did not want you around..

That being said, our game this weekend had a crew of 5 that easily breaks the 1250 club.
The head linesman could not get more than a few yards up field at best.

1. This is a safety issue for the kids.
2. You cannot even remotely make a call on out of bounds upfield, which was demonstrated more than once.

There is not a question in my mind these guys were giving the very best effort they could, I just wonder if this is the way to go.

I wish I could officiate these days, but hell, I can't move any better

I'm not a ref.... just a fan - but one thing I do know - never mess with the Zebra's! They are large and in charge at all times (closest thing to absolute power this side of the Emperor in the Star wars trilogy when on the field).

To all the Zebra's/Stripes on Edgy Nation.. Just remember that we love you at Waubonsie Valley! you do a great job (even when we don't like your calls from the peanut galley stands). One of the toughest jobs out there and the dedication to the game required to take it on is HUGE and deserves kudos.

Ok - now that I have sucked up to the bosses.... I will pose a question back to PROKIE...

The games couldn't be played without the dedicated Refs out there each week at the Frosh/Soph/Varsity levels. We might not have a lot of younger guys (or middle aged guys) willing to invest that much time and energy into the sport? IE a ref shortage? That may be forcing guys to continue to give to the game that would like to transition back into Fandom, but cant do to lack of up and coming Refs? I've seen a lot of games over the past 5 years and most of the refs are my age (mid 40's) and older. So I am just wondering about how many younger refs are out there coming up in the system?.

Edgy Nation Refs - Keep up the great work! Love the willingness to answer questions each week on the Ref Question Thread!

 

[ref2]

The big problem is younger people are not taking up the avocation. Some that do quit because it just isn't worth it to them. $74 for a varsity football game that takes 4-5 hours out of a Friday night. They don't want to listen to all the bitching etc.

It is going to get a lot worse in the future.

 

[i011763]

Fellas,
I know this will be a touchy subject, but I have to ask...

Are there any health/mobility requirements in any of these crews?

Having worn the stripes many moons ago in my late 20's, I quit officiating in Oklahoma due to the good ole' boy syndrome, and the "crews" perspective. A young kid couldnt move up because if you had better than average mobility which allowed you to be closer to the play, you were never going anywhere because a lot of the crews did not want you around..

That being said, our game this weekend had a crew of 5 that easily breaks the 1250 club.
The head linesman could not get more than a few yards up field at best.

1. This is a safety issue for the kids.
2. You cannot even remotely make a call on out of bounds upfield, which was demonstrated more than once.

There is not a question in my mind these guys were giving the very best effort they could, I just wonder if this is the way to go.

I wish I could officiate these days, but hell, I can't move any better

There are not direct health or mobility requirements for the playoff officials.

The state needs 640 officials for the first round of the playoffs. (128 games x 5 officials) There are about 1375 officials in the state who are either Certified or Recognized for football. Of the 1375 not all of them are active officials Each crew who wants to be considered for playoffs submits their playoff crew to the state. Coaches do have some ability to influence who gets playoff assignments based on their ratings of officials during the regular season. Coaches also are able to provide the IHSA with a list each year of their top 15 officials. Both of these are part of a broader power ranking of each official. Below are the 7 factors that are taking into consideration. This does not mean that the finals will be the guys with the highest power ranking every year as the IHSA also seeks to have geographical representation from the officials along with other factors

License Level C
Score on Part 1 Exam
Previous tournament experience
(this gender) Finals
Contest ratings percentile
Top 15 list percentile
Most recent clinic
Varsity games worked

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I was going to post this after the season but since you brought it up now here goes,...

WE NEED MORE OFFICIALS! I don't even care what sport but football especially. It's not that hard to become a licensed official.

Literally go this website:

http://ihsa.org/Officials/HowtoBecomeaLicensedOfficial.aspx

You fill a few things out, figure out what sports you want to do, and there you go. Here's the thing that no one seems to mention. If you have a son or daughter who wants to make a little extra money, being an official makes you very good money. Youth level games range around $25-$35 bucks a game for not a lot of time spent (maybe 90 minutes a game max??), so your kid makes around $150 a weekend and your kid gets to learn life skills and conflict resolution and a lot of other good things.

Officiating is the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The people I've met, the places I've gotten to go, ok some of the basketball coaches are out of control but I could always deal with that. If you have questions about becoming an official or how to get started after you file with the IHSA e-mail me at [email protected] and I will do my best to help you out.

I think I am going to do this when all my kids are out of the house. Soccer and Football. Will still be a few years off (last one graduates HS in 2022) but I still move very well - quick, agile, just don't have the stamina I once had back in the glory days!

 

[PRokie]

Gooms, I agree with you 100%... I ended up in baseball at D1 in the Big8 ( now big10)

I genuinely loved it..

When coaching a travel league game last year, we had what I thought to be a very promising young official working our sidelines.

3 man crew..

Pass play downfield, with a PI call from the head linesman on a play that was obviously in his jurisdiction... he completely agreed it was a bad call, but refused to say anything because: ( and I quote) "If I question anything they won't hire me and I need the money"
"These guys have both been patched for over 20 yrs."

Sometimes you wonder why the young guys don't stick..

 

[Chief321]

Fellas,
I know this will be a touchy subject, but I have to ask...

Are there any health/mobility requirements in any of these crews?

Having worn the stripes many moons ago in my late 20's, I quit officiating in Oklahoma due to the good ole' boy syndrome, and the "crews" perspective. A young kid couldnt move up because if you had better than average mobility which allowed you to be closer to the play, you were never going anywhere because a lot of the crews did not want you around..

That being said, our game this weekend had a crew of 5 that easily breaks the 1250 club.
The head linesman could not get more than a few yards up field at best.

1. This is a safety issue for the kids.
2. You cannot even remotely make a call on out of bounds upfield, which was demonstrated more than once.

There is not a question in my mind these guys were giving the very best effort they could, I just wonder if this is the way to go.

I wish I could officiate these days, but hell, I can't move any better

If you want more young officials to stick around, talk to your youth and underclass fans and coaches. I think alot of guys are turned away early because of their first experiences are filled with screaming fans and coaches who make it a very uncomfortable experience. The game would be hard enough in a bubble where you had to watch what you were supposed to and be where you are supposed to be. Now add in 20 dads who only know what Joe Buck explains to them every sunday(most of those rules are totally different than the NFHS rules). If we can get some of the younger guys to stick around and experience some of the great things that come with officiating then maybe you will see more "mobile/Healthy" officials.

With that being said just because some of the guys arent moving great doesnt mean they arent good officials or that they cannot protect the kids and rule on plays. Ive worked with some 300lb + officials who might not be keeping up with the play but know how to be in position when and where they need to be. The closer you are to a play, the less perspective you have on it. Its alot easier than you would think to make an out of bounds call from 20yds away if you are on the line in good position.

We need more officials and until there are more you are just going to see more veteran officials out there who might not move like you think they should(no offense to some of my older ref brotheren out there). Thats also how the playoff system for officials shakes out, where you need to have been officiating for several years to have the points to get to the higher level games.

 

[chuck998]

As a former official, I can tell you that "health" is a topic that is discussed at nearly every meeting of officials, at least the ones that I attended. That said, I have never seen an official miss a call, or lag a play that would result in a material missed call. The guys I know are extremely dedicated professionals. Without them, there would be no Friday Night Lights.

 

[PRokie]

Like I said guys... I absolutely believe these guys were giving it their very best, and overall did a pretty good job. This was not an attack as merely a question.
There was a play Friday night where in watching the replay had a very bad spot due to the fact nobody was within 20 yards of the play. Which prompted my question!

I completely get it... I wore the stripes for several years! I know what it's like to have some rabid bastard in your ear!!
I also know that just because someone has been doing it a long time DOES NOT mean they are good at it.
The pay should be a lot more, and a crew of six wouldn't hurt either... I'm pretty sure they can afford it.

 

[Chief321]

There was a play Friday night where in watching the replay had a very bad spot due to the fact nobody was within 20 yards of the play. Which prompted my question!

That is where the lack of mobility comes into play, Ill give you that. Its hard to get an accurate spot 5seconds after it has moved.

 

[PRokie]

That was my only point. It has nothing to do with credibility or judgement... that's all

I would think in the playoffs especially they would go to larger crews... there is NOBODY officiating today that can keep up with these kids, Regardless of mobility!

The twins from West Aurora were electric, An officiating nightmare!! Experience and positioning can only take you so far when kids move like that, and in the playoffs, a spot downfield can make a huge difference.

 

[Chief321]

That was my only point. It has nothing to do with credibility or judgement... that's all

I would think in the playoffs especially they would go to larger crews... there is NOBODY officiating today that can keep up with these kids, Regardless of mobility!

The twins from West Aurora were electric, An officiating nightmare!! Experience and positioning can only take you so far when kids move like that, and in the playoffs, a spot downfield can make a huge difference.

I think the only problem with expanding the crew is you have a shortage of qualified officials as is. And the ones who are out there all been trained in a 5 man. So you add a position people arent used to seeing things from or know mechanics on. Or you have to use college guys who are usually booked every saturday as is. We just have to have the kids slow down I suppose.

 

[i011763]

That was my only point. It has nothing to do with credibility or judgement... that's all

I would think in the playoffs especially they would go to larger crews... there is NOBODY officiating today that can keep up with these kids, Regardless of mobility!

The twins from West Aurora were electric, An officiating nightmare!! Experience and positioning can only take you so far when kids move like that, and in the playoffs, a spot downfield can make a huge difference.

Keep in mind, that the kids don't age, each year there is a fresh bunch of 15-19 players that come out and play the games. These kids are getting faster and stronger on a yearly basis. Even young officials in their late 20's can't (for the most part) keep up with these young guns.

Michigan uses 7 guys during many regular season games and the playoffs, PA has a crew of 6. Would a larger crew make the job easier...of course.

 

[ref2]

The schools would complain about the cost of bigger crews. That's why we still have some conferences with only 3 officials on freshmen games. Which I still don't get. 3 officials trying to watch 22 kids on a field is insane. And freshmen do some stupid **** out there.

Look at baseball . They still only use 2 man crews for regionals. 3 man after that. In the finals they only use 3 man crews, why not at least bring the finals up to a 4 man crew.

 

[PRokie]

Guys, please understand I would love to see more people officiating!!! I have always believed every football coach should put on the stripes, and every baseball coach should spend a minimum of a week behind the plate and out in the field..

Particularly these little league guys!! You wonder why people get turned off!

Sometimes it's hard to look at and not be defensive, but the truth is we need more officials, and we need to figure ways to keep the younger newbies engaged.

I was a victim of the good ole boy network.. I'm not sure if it happens here, but I hope not!!

As a coach, I get people will make mistakes, however I HATE a lazy official who is dying to throw a flag, or baiting confrontation.

 

[PRokie]

The schools would complain about the cost of bigger crews. That's why we still have some conferences with only 3 officials on freshmen games. Which I still don't get. 3 officials trying to watch 22 kids on a field is insane. And freshmen do some stupid **** out there.

Look at baseball . They still only use 2 man crews for regionals. 3 man after that. In the finals they only use 3 man crews, why not at least bring the finals up to a 4 man crew.

You are 100% correct dude!!

I completely believe having more officials where possible will grow the number of officials.

It's hard to argue with someone who has the absolute best view due to proper positioning.
More officials would allow that to happen

 

[Goomlah]

The big problem is younger people are not taking up the avocation. Some that do quit because it just isn't worth it to them. $74 for a varsity football game that takes 4-5 hours out of a Friday night. They don't want to listen to all the bitching etc.

It is going to get a lot worse in the future.

In THE POOREST STATE IN THE UNION Mississippi pays $95 for a varsity game.

Forget the money at the higher levels for a minute though. I promise any young up and coming football official if you want to start officiating football you will be varsity level in 2 or 3 years if you want to. WE'RE THAT DESPERATE!

 

[RetiredReferee]

I've been on this soapb.....ehhh, I probably shouldn't.

 

[PRokie]

Tell em stripes

 

[RetiredReferee]

My desire for anonymity would be lost.