Referee - Chop Block Question

[Chief321]

I will repeat what was written here. TWO chop block calls on the defense. No explanation given to the player when asked.

We really need good officials. Guys that know the rules and how to enforce them. And when asked, how to explain what the foul was so the player(s) don't repeat the foul.

I have seen hundreds officials in many different sports who are really, really good. They know they aren't the reason people have plunked down their money to come out and watch a game.

And have seen a few who need some work studying film, reading the rules and learning a bit about what an authority figure should be.They want to be the center of attention.

To me, this is one of those guys.

The defense cannot block below the waist outside the free blocking zone, this is a "safety foul" that probably isn't called enough. That may be why you have not seen it called, but certainly doesn't make it wrong to be called.
As for the explanation not being given, often times kids will ask the closest ref what the call is, and many times it is hard to explain what someone else saw. Also not best practice to explain something you don't know to be 100% correct

 

[Dino brown]

The defense cannot block below the waist outside the free blocking zone, this is a "safety foul" that probably isn't called enough. That may be why you have not seen it called, but certainly doesn't make it wrong to be called.
As for the explanation not being given, often times kids will ask the closest ref what the call is, and many times it is hard to explain what someone else saw. Also not best practice to explain something you don't know to be 100% correct

So if I am rushing and the RB is behind the tackle and I dive Infront of the tackle on an angle and still make the the play by tripping up the RB that's a chop block?

 

[Vikings7961]

Not necessarily. Is the tackle on the LOS or otherwise in the free blocking zone? If so, no penalty should be called. The play that this penalty should be called on (and is generally not) is when you have an O lineman pulling and leading on a DE or LB on the outside. What you will see is the defensive player essentially drop down and cut the pulling O lineman. From a defensive standpoint, this creates a pile and plugs things up. However, if this is outside of the free blocking zone (which it usually is) it should be a penalty.

 

[ref2]

We really need to get some things straight.

A chop block is when two players block an opponent where one goes high and one goes low, it is never legal anywhere on the field including the free blocking zone.
A block below the waist can only be done in the free blocking zone where both players started in the free blocking zone, the ball is in the free blocking zone. And yes a block below the waist can be called on the defense. A defender cannot take out a lead blocker by hitting him below the waist.

So are we even sure a chop block was called? Or was a block below the waist called? Was this play ran from the shotgun formation?

Too many questions that need to be answered.

 

[gebronco]

The signal for chop block (both hands at the knees was given) both times the penalty was called. The PA announcer subsequently announced a chop block (I realize there can be some disconnect there). I will try to get the video and post.

 

[RetiredReferee]

The signal for chop block (both hands at the knees was given) both times the penalty was called. The PA announcer subsequently announced a chop block (I realize there can be some disconnect there). I will try to get the video and post.

That's not the signal for chop block. That is the signal for block below the waist. Please don't tell me this thread is about the announcer getting the signal wrong.

 

[RetiredReferee]

I will repeat what was written here. TWO chop block calls on the defense. No explanation given to the player when asked.

We really need good officials. Guys that know the rules and how to enforce them. And when asked, how to explain what the foul was so the player(s) don't repeat the foul.

Wait a second.....in this thread it was stated that both teams were called for this foul once. Since it only happened once to both teams doesn't that suggest both teams were explained why that was a penalty? Or are you upset the ref didn't tell both teams at the same time?

 

[ref2]

Wouldn't be the first time an announcer got the signal confused, won't be the last. I would guess that at least once a game announcers get the signal wrong.
Couple examples,

They do not know when an "Automatic" first down is. Which leaves us with explaining to a coach why it wasn't.
They often confuse block in the back with holding,
I have heard announcers say chop block when we have had a block below the waist.

 

[RetiredReferee]

Wouldn't be the first time an announcer got the signal confused, won't be the last. I would guess that at least once a game announcers get the signal wrong.
Couple examples,

They do not know when an "Automatic" first down is. Which leaves us with explaining to a coach why it wasn't.
They often confuse block in the back with holding,
I have heard announcers say chop block when we have had a block below the waist.

We had a chain crew this year on a 3rd and more than 15 (forgot what it was) who 'forgot' that PI isn't an automatic anymore.

 

[Oddy]

No offense to any refs here, but you just can't expect NFL caliber officiating at the HS level. On second thought....maybe it IS better.

 

[gebronco]

Ok, as usual, Google is my friend. Based on your comments above and the signal here it would appear the refs were calling block below the waist - again, I'm not a referee and realize announcers can occasionally have diarrhea of of the mouth when announcing calls. Having said that, I've also never seen/heard a block below the waist called on the defense, returns after turnovers not included.

http://www.bafra.org/signals/signal40.htm

 

[RetiredReferee]

No offense to any refs here, but you just can't expect NFL caliber officiating at the HS level. On second thought....maybe it IS better.

Can you imagine the length of games if the NFHS added replay? Certainly the kitchens would be closed where my crew post games.

 

[RetiredReferee]

Ok, as usual, Google is my friend. Based on your comments above and the signal here it would appear the refs were calling block below the waist - again, I'm not a referee and realize announcers can occasionally have diarrhea of of the mouth when announcing calls. Having said that, I've also never seen/heard a block below the waist called on the defense, returns after turnovers not included.

http://www.bafra.org/signals/signal40.htm

I ain't mad atcha.

 

[chuck998]

Not necessarily. Is the tackle on the LOS or otherwise in the free blocking zone? If so, no penalty should be called. The play that this penalty should be called on (and is generally not) is when you have an O lineman pulling and leading on a DE or LB on the outside. What you will see is the defensive player essentially drop down and cut the pulling O lineman. From a defensive standpoint, this creates a pile and plugs things up. However, if this is outside of the free blocking zone (which it usually is) it should be a penalty.

GW was flagged for defense blocking below the waist for exactly the reason you stated above. Can't remember which game but it was early. It confused the hell out of people sitting around me but it was a proper call. One of GW kids went low to take out a blocker, because he knew about 6 other guys were right behind him to follow up. It was a proper call.

 

[psspfan]

GW was flagged for defense blocking below the waist for exactly the reason you stated above. Can't remember which game but it was early. It confused the hell out of people sitting around me but it was a proper call. One of GW kids went low to take out a blocker, because he knew about 6 other guys were right behind him to follow up. It was a proper call.

so in this case. the defender can go low, so long as that defender was on the LOS and the "block" was within the "safe zone".? correct?

 

[RetiredReferee]

so in this case. the defender can go low, so long as that defender was on the LOS and the "block" was within the "safe zone".? correct?

3 conditions need to be met:
1. Offensive player needs to be on the line of scrimmage
2. Defensive player needs to be on the line of scrimmage
3. The block, as well as the ball, needs to be happen in the free blocking zone

If those conditions are not met be either the offense of defense, it is a 15 yard penalty for blocking below the waist.

 

[mc140]

A defender cannot take out a lead blocker by hitting him below the waist.

I have seen those called against us a handful of times over the years. Not often, but enough to tell our kids the rules.

The only bizarre game I had was years back our RB was called for an offensive face mask three times in the same game. Only saw it called one other time.

 

[RetiredReferee]

I have seen those called against us a handful of times over the years. Not often, but enough to tell our kids the rules.

The only bizarre game I had was years back our RB was called for an offensive face mask three times in the same game. Only saw it called one other time.

I'm still waiting for the awarded fair catch free kick.

 

[ref2]

I'm still waiting for the awarded fair catch free kick.

Had a team a couple years ago was going to do it and then changed their mind. Still waiting

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

Had a team a couple years ago was going to do it and then changed their mind. Still waiting

Montini fair caught a kick and attempted a 53yd free kick almost made it it hit the cross bar

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

3 conditions need to be met:
1. Offensive player needs to be on the line of scrimmage
2. Defensive player needs to be on the line of scrimmage
3. The block, as well as the ball, needs to be happen in the free blocking zone

If those conditions are not met be either the offense of defense, it is a 15 yard penalty for blocking below the waist.

I believe that on the first one it was a run between the tackles and all the above were met. But it's hard to tell at won't point of the play the flag was thrown

 

[manzo11]

I'm still waiting for the awarded fair catch free kick.

http://www.nwherald.com/2014/10/25/high-school-football-hampshire-beats-woodstock/am7njak/