Relegation/Promotion in US Soccer....

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

Earlier today I listened to Alexis Lalas new podcast and it had a dude on there that addressed what's wrong with US Soccer model...

I never really thought about it or understood it like this until he put it out there that the problem with the US Soccer model is the MLS itself. It's a closed system that discourages the very things that make soccer around the globe so great. His biggest issue is there being no relegation or promotion... The two things that ultimately encourage monetary investment, support and growth the most. His proposal is for a new federation to be birthed that governs all soccer in the country....he basically said you don't have a salary cap and you create an application process that teams and clubs can apply. You then draw up the tier system you want to implement and then you are good to go. Franchises would flock to it due to the cap reason alone. Basically all the MLS is doing is recycling money back to the investors of the clubs. It's quite interesting what he says..... Check it out here:

https://art19.com/shows/the-mutant-gene-podcast/episodes/6fe9e99b-e6bb-44dc-9f27-b45e9a0e9c7f

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

And he is right in his response to the argument of many that say "an open system would discourage parity".....is a closed system encouraging it? A total of like 5 teams have won the MLS cup. How is that any different?

 

[Get Buckets]

Do you think a relegation system on the paddock would work?

 

[Kooky Kats]

The reason US Soccer lags ... is that the best under-16 talent isn't put in farm systems and developed like the Europro dudes. Our guys rely on colleges as the farm system and by that time, the competition is watered down to average and the product is a 21 year old guys with limited exposure to quality soccer.

Only a select few Americans are plucked and brought across the pond to play in their youth.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Sean, the problem with US soccer is because fans like you don't care enough about soccer. Our players feed off the energy of the fans, and you and other fellow Americans simply aren't doing your jobs.

I think you need to create more soccer awareness by posting more pro-themed soccer threads on here.

 

[funKYcat75]

I wish it were viable here in the US. Good soccer is fun to watch. It's just not gonna happen.

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

The reason US Soccer lags ... is that the best under-16 talent isn't put in farm systems and developed like the Europro dudes. Our guys rely on colleges as the farm system and by that time, the competition is watered down to average and the product is a 21 year old guys with limited exposure to quality soccer.

Only a select few Americans are plucked and brought across the pond to play in their youth.

But to this guys point implementing a tier system with relegation and promotion places more emphasis on the development of youth academies and places more of a value on developing youth and getting these talented youth in the system sooner....which then equates to a higher quality product on the pitch.

 

[cricket3]

And he is right in his response to the argument of many that say "an open system would discourage parity".....is a closed system encouraging it? A total of like 5 teams have won the MLS cup. How is that any different?

MLS has been around for 20 years and 10 different teams have won. How much more parity do you want?

 

[DSmith21]

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

MLS has been around for 20 years and 10 different teams have won. How much more parity do you want?

How many have won multiple though? It's your same 4-5 teams....it's the same in every sport....4-5 teams own the majority of the titles. Parity is an illusion.

 

[straykat]

That argument makes no senser. The EPL has had 5 different champions in the last 20 years. La Liga has 5 and Bundesliga has 6. The MLS has had 10 different champions and 5 teams have multiple championships. Ten different champions is a better balanced league than 5/6, no matter how you slice it.

 

[TransyCat09]

Yeah, I bet the Washington DC fans will turn out in droves when their team gets dumped to the lower division

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

And I get that, but what is the better league? Its the EPL, La Liga, etc.... its better talent because there is no cap. For Example, look at PSG. PSG is extremely young in terms of their existence and prior to being taken over by major oil owners and having billions of dollars dumped in the program. Because of no CAP, they were able to go buy guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Blaise Matuidi, Pastore, Veratti, Angel Di Maria, Edinson Cavani and before you know it you have a power that can compete on the worlds highest level. What would you rather have? A closed system MLS with very mediocre talent that cannot compete on the worlds highest level talent wise or due to the closed system,... or an open system in which a team like the Galaxy, or Sounders if they get big time money can go out and afford to bring elite/upper tier talent in to create a better product? Thats the reason you have multiple guys like Kronke buying into foreign teams. Their return for their investment can be and is much greater, even if they have to maybe invest more on the front end. I mean Chelsea and Man City historically are not "giants". Each were relegated fairly recently, Man City in 2001 and 2002. Both required a financial takeover to become who they are today...

Imagine if after the first failed closed system in the US in 1920 then switched to an open system... You have teams like the Milwaukee Bavarians and the Bethlehem Steel who have been a clubs in existence since the 1920's. Who is to say, if in an open system with that much tradition in major cities with unlimited financial backing and 96 years in an open system to foster an adequate economic backing those two teams couldn't achieve a level of club equivalent to a Chelsea or Man City?

 

[KentuckyStout]

Sean, the problem with US soccer is because fans like you don't care enough about soccer. Our players feed off the energy of the fans, and you and other fellow Americans simply aren't doing your jobs.

I think you need to create more soccer awareness by posting more pro-themed soccer threads on here.

I agree - we need more soccer (futbol) threads in the Paddock.

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

I agree - we need more soccer (futbol) threads in the Paddock.

Guess what, there is this awesome thing you can do if you dont like soccer, or dont want to discuss or have something halfway intelligent to contribute to the convo..... DONT CLICK THE DAMN THREAD. I feel sorry for those of you who have literally nothing else to do besides click on a thread you have no interest in and essentially troll....

 

[UKserialkiller]

Guess what, there is this awesome thing you can do if you dont like soccer, or dont want to discuss or have something halfway intelligent to contribute to the convo..... DONT CLICK THE DAMN THREAD. I feel sorry for those of you who have literally nothing else to do besides click on a thread you have no interest in and essentially troll....

HEY YOU LOOKIE HERE SEAN! By GOD I played HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER FOR 4 YEARS!! MADE THE ALL DISTRICT TEAM 1ST TEAM!! SON WHRE I PLAYED YOU COULND"T HANDLE IT. SEAN I WOULD SLIDE TACKLE SO HARD THAT IT IMPREGNATED THERIR MOMMAS. DONT YOU COME HERE TALKIN ABOUT SOCCER HERE BOY

 

[TransyCat09]

No cap doesn't have anything to do with relegation or promotion. MLS would do well to have no cap or much higher cap. Soccer is not popular enough (yet or maybe ever) nor has it been around long enough to support second tier teams in top notch cities.

EPL teams have multi-generational fans of what amounts to the only game in town. If DC United gets knocked down to a lower division for a few years they will lose the vast majority of the fans.

 

[Dig Dirkler]

Sean, the problem with US soccer is because fans like you don't care enough about soccer. Our players feed off the energy of the fans, and you and other fellow Americans simply aren't doing your jobs.

I think you need to create more soccer awareness by posting more pro-themed soccer threads on here.

Close. The problem with US soccer is because fans like Sean (who is also a well-known drone enthusiast) don't care enough about soccer to bring their drones to games so we all can have some really bitchin' overhead action shots.

 

[UKwizard]

I like soccer. I love the World Cup and the US national team. I could give two ***** about MLS and I don't want to get up at the crack of dawn to watch EPL teams I have no investment in what so ever. MLS can't support relegation.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Close. The problem with US soccer is because fans like Sean (who is also a well-known drone enthusiast) don't care enough about soccer to bring their drones to games so we all can have some really bitchin' overhead action shots.

This is a shame.

At the Orlando City MLS soccer games, Sean would be mocked for bringing a drone to the game.

 

[KentuckyStout]

Guess what, there is this awesome thing you can do if you dont like soccer, or dont want to discuss or have something halfway intelligent to contribute to the convo..... DONT CLICK THE DAMN THREAD. I feel sorry for those of you who have literally nothing else to do besides click on a thread you have no interest in and essentially troll....

Sean, since this is the internet it appears that you may have misinterpreted my original post as being sarcastic and insincere.

 

[Dig Dirkler]

This is a shame.

At the Orlando City MLS soccer games, Sean would be mocked for bringing a drone to the game.

Damn, that's pretty bad when one minority (soccer) mocks a fellow minority (drone lovers).

Personally, I feel drone-shaming is one of our country's biggest social issues. Pioneers, like Sean, are only trying to change our perspectives and broaden our horizon with their promotion of those little wonderful flying gizmos. So sad.

 

[GrandePdre]

The relegation model works where soccer is the #1 sport and in smaller countries. There is serious pride between the cities and towns of Britain and their soccer clubs. You can do Leicester vs Nottingham Forest or Liverpool vs Manchester City because of the proximity and rivalry. Even Cardiff vs Sunderland has more juice than Seattle vs Portland.

Now in college football, relegation be like :eyes:

 

[Kentucky Bandit]

Didn't the NASL and USL have discussions about a merger with promotion/regulation?

If U.S. Soccer really wanted to do Pro/Reg it could set it up with MLS, NASL, USL. It won't happen because the owners of MLS teams don't want it.

The sport has come a long way in America. Still has a way to go too. I think Sean is on point that you did not have the big time international players wanting to come to America to play - until they are at the end of their career.

 

[straykat]

MLS is trying to grow the league. If there is no salary cap and teams are already in place in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston, how many investors would be willing to step up with a $125M expansion fee to put a team in Louisville, Cincinnati, or Indianapolis?

Once they reach 24-30 teams in the league and all teams are financially stable, maybe raising or eliminating the cap would make sense. But now is not the time..

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

MLS is trying to grow the league. If there is no salary cap and teams are already in place in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston, how many investors would be willing to step up with a $125M expansion fee to put a team in Louisville, Cincinnati, or Indianapolis?

Once they reach 24-30 teams in the league and all teams are financially stable, maybe raising or eliminating the cap would make sense. But now is not the time..

That's the thing, there shouldn't necessarily be an expansion fee. If you have a tier system you buy in low and work your way up.

 

[wildcat1973_rivals160373]

A lot of rich people have propped up MLS for 20 years. A lot of those years they lost money. They just aren't going to let that investment go to hell with pro/rel upstarts taking up their spots in MLS. Learn money and power. Especially when that investment is finally starting to pay off.

Won't ever happen. Move on.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

Yeah, I bet the Washington DC fans will turn out in droves when their team gets dumped to the lower division

yeah you can't grow the sport and get the plebes hooting by taking the local team off the tv

 

[MoreheadEagle]

Your first mistake was listening to a podcast with Ted Westervelt on it. The man is a certifiable idiot and probably insane. He leads a cult of pro/rel truthers online that are nothing more than hipster Europosers that would love nothing more than to kill American soccer so we can have one super club, which ideally to them would be the NY Cosmos.

Pro/rel will thankfully never happen here. No TV network would sign a deal with a league that can kick out teams in big markets. On a local level, Fox Sports Philly (just throwing out a name) wouldn't sign a contract with the Philadelphia Union if they could get kicked out of their league. Not going to happen. Thank Christ.

MLS has done more to grow the game in the US in the last 20 years and the popularity of the sport keeps rising. I could go on a much longer rant, but pro/rel is an outdated system that does nothing to add to the competitiveness of the big 5 leagues in Europe. The most popular league in the US (Liga MX) has playoffs and basically no pro/rel and it does just fine.

 

[Violent Cuts]

It makes it much more exciting and gives a chance for teams to advance. Also, watching the bottom teams fight to remain is pretty cool as well as watching the lower divisions fight to move up. As a fan, I greatly prefer it. And I didn't listen to a podcast to form this opinion,.

 

[jtrue28]

:cool2:

The monthly soccer and climate change threads are my hatboggan.

opcorn:

 

[jockstrap_mcgee]

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

It makes it much more exciting and gives a chance for teams to advance. Also, watching the bottom teams fight to remain is pretty cool as well as watching the lower divisions fight to move up. As a fan, I greatly prefer it. And I didn't listen to a podcast to form this opinion,.

I always preferred rel/pro....like today, the desperation of Sunderland to come back against Chelsea was so fun to watch. Went from Newcastle being safe to Newcastle having everything riding on their game vs. Tottenham.

 

[Dig Dirkler]

:cool2:

The monthly soccer and climate change threads are my hatboggan.

opcorn:

Personally, I wish the OP would add a monthly drone thread to complete the "**** thread" trifecta.

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

The NBA needs relegation. I watched a match this morning where the beer team (I think it was Newcastle) was in a battle to stay in the top league. It was actually an interesting game bc they were fighting for survival. The Philadelphia 76ers haven't played a meaningful game in 4 years.

 

[BigBlueSean_rivals178247]

Gonna come down to the last game (2 games for some) to determine 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.... As well as 2 relegation spots....

 

[Kentucky Bandit]

A plus of Pro/Reg is you can have story like Leicester City.

Pretty amazing what that last year has been like for that team/city.

 

[ekywildcat_rivals26726]

I'll be damed! So there is actually a guy named Alexi Lalas? My Grandson, who is in Kindergarten, brought an AR book home the other day about soccer and Alexi.

 

[Goingfor9]

The bottomline on soccer is that american culture is all about football. Basketball. Baseball. These three sports suck up the best athletes of the best and US Soccer is there picking up the leftovers. We have 320 million people in the USA and our national team is on par with costa rica. Soccer in Costa Rica futbol rather is the sport and there really aren't any competitors so most every kid is in the pool to be evaluated and developed. When you look at the rest of the world soccer is the sport peasants play which make up the majority the street ball players that are swooped up young and live in academies with THE focus on soccer. In usa who knows if a kid will show to their club practice. American culture does not support success for our men's national team. Look at Odell Beckham who was in the national pool. He said he did t want to travel around the world playing soccer. Idk about you but imagining Beckham as a big physical striker or center back we hell you know the impact that would have on our men's team. Soccer is a different animal for women and fits American culture of women empowerment while many countries are far behind in that regard.

Klinsmen is ruining what success we have had by tying us soccer to the academy system. It doesn't work in America. Club soccer costs as much as hockey and to get noticed and recruited into an academy well the kid will only get noticed through club. Go look at the club teams and tell me whether they represent our country diversity or a specific demographic that can afford club soccer. Klinsman want to eliminated pay for play but he didn't understand the culture or the existing club system. Now things are a big mess. Our men's team is a shell and the future is very uncertain right now. If klinsman had it then we would be finding homes for most if not all of our men's team in European leagues even second division is stronger than MLS.

As for leagues no doubt la liga is the strongest and has the bulk of world talent. EPL is a step above MLS. Britain is another one. Worse than us soccer IMO and for a long while American philosophies were driven by the English. we are beginning to see more South American influence in the club system as well as euro spainish which will help in terms of creativity. Like I said earlier without kids playing in the streets there is a lack of creativity bc the club mentality locks kids into one track thinking. They cannot think outside of what they have learned. You want soccer success in America? We need a leader for us soccer who understands to KEEP players in club systems after age 12 when 70% drop out. Convince the Odell Beckhams of our country to go play in la liga, bundesliga, etc...MLS is a dead end for us soccer. The coaches in the academies suck and are terrible teachers of the game.

 

[Goingfor9]

Btw alexi lalas is a big reason of what's wrong with us soccer. He was a ****** player and has a mouth that won't stop. We need the Donovan's and Dempsey soon to dethrone these loser like wynalda and lalas. US soccer is a big f'n mess from club to MLS