Remaining BIG 12(8) compared to other P5's in strength

Buckaineer · Jul 29, 2021

Many out there (and some in here) keep claiming the remaining BIG 12 (8) are no longer POWER teams if they don't play 1 game vs. OU or 1 gm vs. UT

Here is the actual strength of the remaining BIG 12 compared to all the other P5s with their top 20% of teams also knocked off (2020 numbers).

Lower number means you are stronger.

Guess what--the BIG 12 is #1 in strength amongst all power conferences --which completely blows up the LIE that the remaining BIG 12 schools are G5 quality without OU/UT.

Sagarin comparison--BIG (8) compared to each P5 minus top 20%

*B12 (8)*




ISU	8
OK State	19
TCU	24
WVU	31
Baylor	62
KSU	68
T Tech	80
Kansas	130



average	52.75

*B10*

OSU
Iowa
Nwestern
Indiana	17
Wisconsin	18
PSU	29
Nebraska	49
Minnesota	50
Purdue	56
Maryland	61
Michigan	70
Rutgers	71
MSU	81
Illinoios	88
average	53.63636364

*SEC*

Alabama
UGA
A&M
Florida	14
Auburn	26
Mississippi	32
LSU	38
Kentucky	47
Arkansas	51
MS State	54
Missouri	69
Tennessee	72
South Car	96
Vanderbilt	122
average	56.45454545

*ACC*

Clemson
UNC
Miami
Pitt	42
Wake	45
VT	48
UL	53
UVA	57
NC State	58
BC	66
GT	101
FSU	102
Syracuse	107
Duke	113
average	72

*PAC*



Arizona St
USC
Oregon	43
UCLA	46
Utah	52
Stanford	75
Colorado	77
Washington	78
Oregon St	91
Cal	94
Washington S	98
Arizona	121
average	77.5

Buckaineer · Jul 29, 2021

Meanwhile here's what the AAC-the conference trying to poach the BIG 12 (8) looks like in comparison with its ENTIRE conference strength (sagarin--2020):

AAC
Cincinnati	16
UCF	37
Tulsa	40
Tulane	73
SMU	82
Houston	84
Memphis	90
ECU	100
Navy	117
USF	134
Temple	146
average	83.54545455

Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals · Jul 29, 2021

Now the big drama will be how much Oklahoma and Texas actually pay to leave. The full combined $160 million. Or just wait for others to leave the Big 12 and thereby wipe out the exit fee?

If the remaining 8 sit tight they can get $160 million ($20 million apiece) for doing nothing.

This is NOT the time to panic and make a mad bolt for the exit door.

WVU's decision must be based on how much money WVU would gain or lose by staying or leaving, and for which conference?

This is a college sports version of an American soap opera.

Buckaineer · Jul 29, 2021

AND here are TV viewer comparisons (BIG 12/8 compared to other P5-top 20% and AAC)

From the 2019 TV season:

Here the BIG 12 landed in 3RD place--again illustrating the remaining schools are indeed POWER conference schools compared to the other power conferences:

SEC	2019 TV

Alabama
UGA
A&M	32.69
Florida	44.57
Auburn	52.91
Mississippi	12.55
LSU
Kentucky	8.7
Arkansas	9.96
MS State	14.19
Missouri	7.83
Tennessee	17.73
South Car	15.68
Vanderbilt	3.05
average	19.98727273

B10	2019 TV

OSU
Iowa	23.72
Nwestern	12.97
Indiana	13.59
Wisconsin
PSU	47.69
Nebraska	19.21
Minnesota	24.62
Purdue	9.18
Maryland	8.04
Michigan
Rutgers	1.74
MSU	24.51
Illinoios	5.9
average	17.37909091

B12 (8)	2019 TV




ISU	14.96
OK State	20.98
TCU	9.96
WVU	13.27
Baylor	34.01
KSU	13.26
T Tech	11.04
Kansas	4.7



average	15.2725

PAC	2019 TV



Arizona St	14.94
USC
Oregon
UCLA	11.79
Utah	21.94
Stanford	11.76
Colorado	10.07
Washington	19.43
Oregon St	1.93
Cal	7.28
Washington S	11.78
Arizona	7.67
average	11.859

ACC	2019 TV

Clemson
UNC	10.41
Miami
Pitt	11.35
Wake	7.97
VT	11.27
UL	12.28
UVA
NC State	5.48
BC	3.18
GT	2.91
FSU	10.87
Syracuse	7.12
Duke	6.29
average	8.102727273

AAC	2019 TV


Cincinnati	13.54
UCF	9.02
Tulsa	2.52
Tulane	3.72
SMU	6.3
Houston	11.01
Memphis	17.88
ECU	0.37
Navy	14.49
USF	3.99
Temple	3.74
average	7.870909091

Buckaineer · Jul 29, 2021

Just to promote WVU a little--in 2018 when WVU was 8-4 they had tv viewership of
27.183 million viewers. WVU was 5-5 in 2019 and still outrated many teams in other P5s.

They would have been the #2 ACC school for tv viewers that season (2018) behind only Clemson.

Also a side note on tv viewing. EVERY game but 1, occasionally 2 for BIG 12 squads is rated, while most of the other conferences games on their networks were not rated. This skews the other conferences numbers upwards. i.e. WVU had 10 games rated in the 2019 example while Louisville had just 5 on "regular" tv rated, the other numbers being too low to report. Same for the other P5s with each school having differing numbers of games reported based on how many landed on conference networks or third tier outlets.

Clonewithasigh · Jul 29, 2021

Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
Now the big drama will be how much Oklahoma and Texas actually pay to leave. The full combined $160 million. Or just wait for others to leave the Big 12 and thereby wipe out the exit fee?

If the remaining 8 sit tight they can get $160 million ($20 million apiece) for doing nothing.

This is NOT the time to panic and make a mad bolt for the exit door.

WVU's decision must be based on how much money WVU would gain or lose by staying or leaving, and for which conference?

This is a college sports version of an American soap opera.

Don’t forget ESPN is on the hook for over $1Billion

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
Now the big drama will be how much Oklahoma and Texas actually pay to leave. The full combined $160 million. Or just wait for others to leave the Big 12 and thereby wipe out the exit fee?

If the remaining 8 sit tight they can get $160 million ($20 million apiece) for doing nothing.

This is NOT the time to panic and make a mad bolt for the exit door.

WVU's decision must be based on how much money WVU would gain or lose by staying or leaving, and for which conference?

This is a college sports version of an American soap opera.

Yes hard to know the exact amounts because we dont know the exact numbers but its going to be interesting to see how much they pay on their way out.

Bowlsby had a statement that their schools and fans will be treated cordially over the next four years.

But as we know they will try to leave right away if they can most likely— thats apparently going to be problematic.

As for the remainders none can leave right away anyway unless they are invited somewhere and added and everyone agrees to move on. Otherwise minimum of 18 months and someone besides the BIG 12 schools will need to pay all the buyouts.

Most likely this is going to take quite some time to sort out.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

This may be your dumbest thread yet, Bucky. You're taking a set of numbers, eliminating the ones that you don't like, and using the rest to advance a transparent agenda. How silly.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

Here's where the existing BIG 12 schools stand in terms of strength of conference compared to the AAC and all the P5s with all of their existing members--once again proving that despite the endless negative rhetoric, the remaining BIG 12 schools make up a very competitive and strong POWER group of schools:

They aren't #1 if everyone is included, but they are far from last or on the level of the AAC.

B10	final sagarin rating 2020

OSU	2
Iowa	7
Nwestern	15
Indiana	17
Wisconsin	18
PSU	29
Nebraska	49
Minnesota	50
Purdue	56
Maryland	61
Michigan	70
Rutgers	71
MSU	81
Illinoios	88
average	43.85714286

SEC	final sagarin rating 2020

Alabama	1
UGA	6
A&M	11
Florida	14
Auburn	26
Mississippi	32
LSU	38
Kentucky	47
Arkansas	51
MS State	54
Missouri	69
Tennessee	72
South Car	96
Vanderbilt	122
average	45.64285714

B12 (8)	final sagarin rating 2020




ISU	8
OK State	19
TCU	24
WVU	31
Baylor	62
KSU	68
T Tech	80
Kansas	130



average	52.75

ACC	final sagarin rating 2020

Clemson	4
UNC	22
Miami	27
Pitt	42
Wake	45
VT	48
UL	53
UVA	57
NC State	58
BC	66
GT	101
FSU	102
Syracuse	107
Duke	113
average	60.35714286

PAC	final sagarin rating 2020



Arizona St	23
USC	34
Oregon	43
UCLA	46
Utah	52
Stanford	75
Colorado	77
Washington	78
Oregon St	91
Cal	94
Washington S	98
Arizona	121
average	69.33333333

AAC	final sagarin rating 2020
Cincinnati	16
UCF	37
Tulsa	40
Tulane	73
SMU	82
Houston	84
Memphis	90
ECU	100
Navy	117
USF	134
Temple	146
average	83.54545455

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
This may be your dumbest thread yet, Bucky. You're taking a set of numbers, eliminating the ones that you don't like, and using the rest to advance a transparent agenda. How silly.

Twenty percent of the BIG 12 has been eliminated. So to do an honest comparison the same is done for the other conferences.

I'm not "eliminating the ones I don't like" as your idiotic lie implies, I'm comparing like institutions from multiple conferences using the same criteria. Take off the top 20% and compare the rest (after all the claim has been if you eliminate OU/UT the remaining 80% schools are supposed to be nothing compared to these other POWER conferences).

But as you can see (as posted above), it doesn't matter if you include ALL the data, similar results are still true. The BIG 12 IS a POWER conference with or without UT/OU.

If its not, neither are 80% of any of the other conferences including the Big Ten and SEC which have a LOWER rating than the remainder of BIG 12 schools. WITH everything included the BIG 12 eight still scores ahead of the ACC and PAC considerably

westsiderSJHS77 · Jul 30, 2021

The risk here is who will look at all the above data and offer a good TV deal? Toss ESPN out the window. (thanks Big Bob) Fox is going to need to keep Big 10 fat and happy. ACC will move up to third in dollars per school and the new Big 8 will be down in the AAC level.

Also, if each school stays to get every dime out of OU and UT, you can bet that each member will have to sign up for X number of years and have a huge buyout clause. I doubt that anyone will be allowed to get their share and bolt.
So if the ACC and or Big 10 want to add a couple of schools, everyone will be tied up legally.
I can also see ESPN offering a little more but you better bet that Tuesday night ESPN 3 home games will be the norm.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

That's a better argument, Bucky (your post #9, that is). However, the Sagarain ratings won't be as good for the remaining Big 12 schools going forward (if things remain status quo, which they won't), as they will lose all of the points that they receive for playing (and a couple of them, even beating) Oklahoma. Moreover, none of the remaining schools has been invited to the CFP or won a national title in 75 years, IIRC. These facts shape national perception.

westsiderSJHS77 · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
Twenty percent of the BIG 12 has been eliminated. So to do an honest comparison the same is done for the other conferences.

I'm not "eliminating the ones I don't like" as your idiotic lie implies, I'm comparing like institutions from multiple conferences using the same criteria.

But as you can see, it doesn't matter if you include ALL the data, similar results are still true. The BIG 12 IS a POWER conference with or without UT/OU.

If its not, neither are 80% of any of the other conferences including the Big Ten and SEC which have a LOWER rating than the remainder of BIG 12 schools. WITH everything included the BIG 12 eight still scores ahead of the ACC and PAC considerably

How many of those ratings were helped along because they were playing the two schools leaving?

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
Twenty percent of the BIG 12 has been eliminated. So to do an honest comparison the same is done for the other conferences.

I'm not "eliminating the ones I don't like" as your idiotic lie implies, I'm comparing like institutions from multiple conferences using the same criteria. Take off the top 20% and compare the rest (after all the claim has been if you eliminate OU/UT the remaining 80% schools are supposed to be nothing compared to these other POWER conferences).

But as you can see (as posted above), it doesn't matter if you include ALL the data, similar results are still true. The BIG 12 IS a POWER conference with or without UT/OU.

If its not, neither are 80% of any of the other conferences including the Big Ten and SEC which have a LOWER rating than the remainder of BIG 12 schools. WITH everything included the BIG 12 eight still scores ahead of the ACC and PAC considerably

But it makes no sense to "take off" the top 20% of the other conferences, as they haven't lost any members (yet), remember? Moreover, Texas wasn't the Big 12's second best team, so why do you remove the top 20% of the other conferences? You're comparing apples to oranges, and not making any sense.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

Do the same with tv viewers put all the teams existing currently in the major conferences and AAC--the The B10 moves under the SEC, the BIG 12 slides slightly under the 12 team PAC, but is STILL well within the POWER ranks for tv viewership with the existing 8 schools:

TV viewers comparison--BIG (8) compared to each P5

SEC	2019 TV viewers

Alabama	72.95
UGA	70.17
A&M	32.69
Florida	44.57
Auburn	52.91
Mississippi	12.55
LSU	108.01
Kentucky	8.7
Arkansas	9.96
MS State	14.19
Missouri	7.83
Tennessee	17.73
South Car	15.68
Vanderbilt	3.05
average	33.64214286

B10	2019 TV viewers

OSU	88.85
Iowa	23.72
Nwestern	12.97
Indiana	13.59
Wisconsin	58
PSU	47.69
Nebraska	19.21
Minnesota	24.62
Purdue	9.18
Maryland	8.04
Michigan	66.87
Rutgers	1.74
MSU	24.51
Illinoios	5.9
average	28.92071429

PAC	2019 TV viewers



Arizona St	14.94
USC	23.61
Oregon	47.73
UCLA	11.79
Utah	21.94
Stanford	11.76
Colorado	10.07
Washington	19.43
Oregon St	1.93
Cal	7.28
Washington S	11.78
Arizona	7.67
average	15.8275

2019 TV viewers	2019 TV viewers




ISU	14.96
OK State	20.98
TCU	9.96
WVU	13.27
Baylor	34.01
KSU	13.26
T Tech	11.04
Kansas	4.7



average	15.2725

2019 TV viewers	2019 TV viewers

Clemson	76.73
UNC	10.41
Miami	14.83
Pitt	11.35
Wake	7.97
VT	11.27
UL	12.28
UVA	17.84
NC State	5.48
BC	3.18
GT	2.91
FSU	10.87
Syracuse	7.12
Duke	6.29
average	14.18071429

AAC	2019 TV viewers


Cincinnati	13.54
UCF	9.02
Tulsa	2.52
Tulane	3.72
SMU	6.3
Houston	11.01
Memphis	17.88
ECU	0.37
Navy	14.49
USF	3.99
Temple	3.74
average	7.870909091

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

westsiderSJHS77 said:
How many of those ratings were helped along because they were playing the two schools leaving?

No more than in the OTHER conferences because they were playing the top teams in their conference.

Even without those top schools (and Texas wasn't #2 in the BIG 12 every year), BIG 12 schools can schedule power teams OOC as well--especially in an 8 team alignment.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

How many of those TV viewers of Big 12 games were watching because Texas or Oklahoma was a participant?

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
But it makes no sense to "take off" the top 20% of the other conferences, as they haven't lost any members (yet), remember? Moreover, Texas wasn't the Big 12's second best team, so why do you remove the top 20% of the other conferences? You're comparing apples to oranges, and not making any sense.

Yes, it does. If you are saying the 8 remaining schools in the BIG 12 are no longer power schools--that is the same as saying they cannot get ratings on tv (or have the strength of) any of the schools in the other power conferences.

If you look at 80% of those other conferences or even 100%--the BIG 12 schools STILL fit in the power conferences in terms of strength and in terms of ability to generate power conference level tv ratings.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
How many of those TV viewers of Big 12 games were watching because Texas or Oklahoma was a participant?

No more than the 80% of schools in those other larger conferences. What do they look like if you take off the top 20% viewers in their conference?

All the anti BIG 12 rhetoric always tries to give everyone else a pass somehow.

Rootmaster · Jul 30, 2021

Big 12 is dead. This thread is comical and juvenile.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Nobody, but those looking through Old Gold & Blue foggy glasses believes that the remaining Big 12 is worthy of a Power 5 designation, without adding more members. You haven't addressed the Elephant in the Room, Bucky. Talk to me about CFP invitations and national titles in the last 75 years. Even the PAC 12 has you beaten there.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

1 game each against UT or OU does NOT make up a significant portion of any BIG 12 schools schedule.

That's like only 16 percent of their schedule in a given year.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

You're desperate, and totally wrong, Bucky. Chew on this (2020 games)...

HIGHEST-RATED BIG 12 FOOTBALL GAMES

Oklahoma vs. Texas: 4.81 million
Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State: 4.10 million
Texas vs Oklahoma State: 4.04 million
Oklahoma vs Iowa State: 3.71 million
Texas vs Iowa State: 3.57 million
Big 12 Championship Game (Oklahoma vs. Iowa State): 2.99 million
Iowa State vs Oklahoma State: 2.81 million
Texas vs Texas Tech: 2.72 million

https://www.heartlandcollegesports....12-games-of-the-2020-college-football-season/

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
Nobody, but those looking through Old Gold & Blue foggy glasses believes that the remaining Big 12 is worthy of a Power 5 designation, without adding more members. You haven't addressed the Elephant in the Room, Bucky. Talk to me about CFP invitations and national titles in the last 75 years. Even the PAC 12 has you beaten there.

I haven't said either that the BIG 12 would or will or won't add more members or that they will or won't stay together.

The point is--looking factually at the situation instead of subjectively--the BIG 12 schools that remain are not g5 level schools by any stretch of the imagination unless 80% of the rest of college football in the power conferences is. They are POWER schools in every metric and remain that way.

TCU/Baylor and OK State would likely have titles just since 2011 had they not artificially been blocked from PLAYING in one. WVU has also played for a national title and came close not all that long ago.

In a 12 team playoff, they'd undoubtedly be able to place teams in such a playoff and if you get in there's a chance to win it.

But winning national championships in a rigged system doesn't determine whether you are a power school or not. Most if not all of the 80% in the other power conferences haven't won a national championship in the last 75 years EITHER. Again--talk about being SELECTIVE--your anti BIG 12 agenda is showing again.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
You're desperate, and totally wrong, Bucky. Chew on this (2020 games)...

HIGHEST-RATED BIG 12 FOOTBALL GAMES
Oklahoma vs. Texas: 4.81 million
Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State: 4.10 million
Texas vs Oklahoma State: 4.04 million
Oklahoma vs Iowa State: 3.71 million
Texas vs Iowa State: 3.57 million
Big 12 Championship Game (Oklahoma vs. Iowa State): 2.99 million
Iowa State vs Oklahoma State: 2.81 million
Texas vs Texas Tech: 2.72 million

https://www.heartlandcollegesports....12-games-of-the-2020-college-football-season/

Now show the highest rated Big 10, ACC, SEC and PAC games and you'll get similar results.

Alabama rates highest in the SEC--and they help the teams that play them.

Ohio State rates highest in the B10

Clemson in the ACC (also ND last year in their 1 year stint)

and so forth and so on.

Why are you only providing data for the BIG 12 rather than EVERYONE like I have?

WVUALLEN · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
Do the same with tv viewers put all the teams existing currently in the major conferences and AAC--the The B10 moves under the SEC, the BIG 12 slides slightly under the 12 team PAC, but is STILL well within the POWER ranks for tv viewership with the existing 8 schools:

TV viewers comparison--BIG (8) compared to each P5

SEC 2019 TV viewers
Alabama

72.95
UGA

70.17
A&M

32.69
Florida

44.57
Auburn

52.91
Mississippi

12.55
LSU

108.01
Kentucky

8.7
Arkansas

9.96
MS State

14.19
Missouri

7.83
Tennessee

17.73
South Car

15.68
Vanderbilt

3.05
average

33.64214286

B10 2019 TV viewers
OSU

88.85
Iowa

23.72
Nwestern

12.97
Indiana

13.59
Wisconsin

58
PSU

47.69
Nebraska

19.21
Minnesota

24.62
Purdue

9.18
Maryland

8.04
Michigan

66.87
Rutgers

1.74
MSU

24.51
Illinoios

5.9
average

28.92071429

PAC 2019 TV viewers
Arizona St

14.94
USC

23.61
Oregon

47.73
UCLA

11.79
Utah

21.94
Stanford

11.76
Colorado

10.07
Washington

19.43
Oregon St

1.93
Cal

7.28
Washington S

11.78
Arizona

7.67
average

15.8275

2019 TV viewers 2019 TV viewers
ISU

14.96
OK State

20.98
TCU

9.96
WVU

13.27
Baylor

34.01
KSU

13.26
T Tech

11.04
Kansas

4.7
average

15.2725

2019 TV viewers 2019 TV viewers
Clemson

76.73
UNC

10.41
Miami

14.83
Pitt

11.35
Wake

7.97
VT

11.27
UL

12.28
UVA

17.84
NC State

5.48
BC

3.18
GT

2.91
FSU

10.87
Syracuse

7.12
Duke

6.29
average

14.18071429

AAC 2019 TV viewers
Cincinnati

13.54
UCF

9.02
Tulsa

2.52
Tulane

3.72
SMU

6.3
Houston

11.01
Memphis

17.88
ECU

0.37
Navy

14.49
USF

3.99
Temple

3.74
average

7.870909091

Where is Texas and OU at in this average?

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Bucky's first argument was flawed by data mining and arbitrary elimination of real numbers. His second argument is full of "ifs" and "buts."

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
Now show the highest rated Big 10, ACC, SEC and PAC games and you'll get similar results.

Alabama rates highest in the SEC--and they help the teams that play them.

Ohio State rates highest in the B10

Clemson in the ACC (also ND last year in their 1 year stint)

and so forth and so on.

Why are you only providing data for the BIG 12 rather than EVERYONE like I have?

Yes, and all of those schools remain in their same conferences, which is the point. Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State make their conferences Power 5 caliber. Oklahoma arguably did the same thing for the Big 12, but Oklahoma is gone, so WVU needs to find a new and better home.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
Bucky's first argument was flawed by data mining and arbitrary elimination of real numbers. His second argument is full of "ifs" and "buts."

King Coal is lying because for some reason he doesn't want the truth revealed.

I used the same criteria to compare schools in the BIG 12 without its top 20% and the other power conferences without their top 20% and the AAC.

Then I brought in all of the existing schools because I knew morons like coal would try to claim that isn't legit somehow.

It ALL shows the same thing--BIG 12 schools that remain are far and above a G5 level no matter how you look at it. If they aren't? Then neither is most of the rest of college football because they have less viewers or rate lower as power schools or both.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
Yes, and all of those schools remain in their same conferences, which is the point. Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State make their conferences Power 5 caliber. Oklahoma arguably did the same thing for the Big 12, but Oklahoma is gone, so WVU needs to find a new and better home.

No, ALL of the schools in the conference make a conference a power conference. If not, then you are claiming Ohio State, Alabama are playing a G5 or lower schedule in order to get wins, and then because they win lots of games vs. lower competition--you call them "power" schools.

Not the way it works at all.

Schools in the BIG 12 that remain have better strength as teams and better viewing than much of the schools in the other power conferences, therefore they are NOT at some lower level.

1 game vs. OU or 1 game vs UT doesn't change that at all.

The evidence is clear.

RichardCranium1 · Jul 30, 2021

I am putting you in the transfer portal Bucky
Time to find a new home

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
King Coal is lying because for some reason he doesn't want the truth revealed.

I used the same criteria to compare schools in the BIG 12 without its top 20% and the other power conferences without their top 20% and the AAC.

Then I brought in all of the existing schools because I knew morons like coal would try to claim that isn't legit somehow.

It ALL shows the same thing--BIG 12 schools that remain are far and above a G5 level no matter how you look at it. If they aren't? Then neither is most of the rest of college football because they have less viewers or rate lower as power schools or both.

You're now resorting to personal attacks and lies because you realize that you've created a fairy tale that nobody, but you (maybe, not even you) believes. The Big 12 won't survive as a Power 5 conference with its current eight teams past 2025. That's why WVU needs to leave.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

KingCoal said:
You're now resorting to personal attacks and lies because you realize that you've created a fairy tale that nobody, but you (maybe, not even you) believes. The Big 12 won't survive as a Power 5 conference with its current eight teams past 2025. That's why WVU needs to leave.

LOL--I'm resorting to personal attacks?! Read your post above troll.

The BIG 12 may choose to go on with its current membership and the facts play out that they are worth significant revenues and have significant strength as a conference--even with only eight schools.

You just don't want that to be true because you have an agenda.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
No, ALL of the schools in the conference make a conference a power conference. If not, then you are claiming Ohio State, Alabama are playing a G5 or lower schedule in order to get wins, and then because they win lots of games vs. lower competition--you call them "power" schools.

Not the way it works at all.

Schools in the BIG 12 that remain have better strength as teams and better viewing than much of the schools in the other power conferences, therefore they are NOT at some lower level.

1 game vs. OU or 1 game vs UT doesn't change that at all.

The evidence is clear.

It's funny that nobody has supported your fairy tale, but "the evidence is clear." You wouldn't know evidence, if a notarized eviction notice landed on your lap.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
LOL--I'm resorting to personal attacks?! Read your post above troll.

The BIG 12 may choose to go on with its current membership and the facts play out that they are worth significant revenues and have significant strength as a conference--even with only eight schools.

You just don't want that to be true because you have an agenda.

You're projecting again, Bucky. Your agenda is clear, and your "evidence" is fatally flawed. WVU needs to exit stage left, if it wants to be in a Power 5 conference.

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

The information is there--all factual. Anyone can look it up.

Anyone with intelligence sees that there is a false narrative being spun about BIG 12 squads in an effort to devalue them so someone else can steal that value.

If BIG 12 schools aren't power schools then there are so few power schools you couldn't even field one conference.

TownesVanZandt_rivals · Jul 30, 2021

FOX is consolidating all their money behind the B1G….
FOX could step up and save the Big 12 but they don’t want to
The money they will save will be put into the B1G

This is the issue with all these schools.
Why the PAC 12 needs to bring another media company into the picture

Has nothing to do with devaluing them…
It is the fact that there isn’t a power conference who wants them.
Unless the PAC attempts to do something different. PAC doesn’t bow down to anyone.

As much **** as that conference takes about being a bunch of West Coast liberals and not caring about sports I have respect for that
They haven’t sold their ***
But maybe not caring about sports does help here

Buckaineer · Jul 30, 2021

If you look at i.e. the Big Ten tv ratings.

Estimates are that the Big Ten is going to be getting maybe $70-$80 million per school in their next contracts.

They had roughly an average of 29 million viewers per school in 2020 while the BIG 12 had roughly 15 million.

15 is what % of 29? Roughly 52%

So let's say the Big Ten receives $75 million then 52% of that would be about $39 million per school BIG 12 schools might expect as a base estimate--NOT $10-$15 million as many out there are speculating as their worth. Add some schools and that rate should move even higher.

KingCoal · Jul 30, 2021

Buckaineer said:
The information is there--all factual. Anyone can look it up.

Anyone with intelligence sees that there is a false narrative being spun about BIG 12 squads in an effort to devalue them so someone else can steal that value.

If BIG 12 schools aren't power schools then there are so few power schools you couldn't even field one conference.

Your clear agenda blinds you from the facts, and you will never see the Big 12 survive as a Power 5 conference with only the eight remaining teams. Instead of being a stubborn fool, you should want what's best for WVU, which is leaving the Big 12, and joining a true Power 5 conference.

TownesVanZandt_rivals · Jul 30, 2021

Not just TV ratings you also have conference sponsors

How many big time companies does Iowa, Kansas and WV have
4-5 million between those places
Houston metro area is bigger. Same as the DFW metro area. Not the market and there isn’t the economy

Companies in Texas and Oklahoma will put money up but not the amount that they did before because you are losing the main schools
That money is shifting East to the SEC. SEC wants to consolidate its power in Texas

Remaining BIG 12(8) compared to other P5's in strength

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