Rice Losing to Fremd
- Thread starter crusader_of_90
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Marozas and Sullivan return. Soph O line had some real good size. DE Kirts on sophs is 6'5 240 now and might be someone who could play RT.
Jlynn12, obviously you are a coach or VERY intimate with the staff, that's great. I'm an alum and BIG fan but yet with all my years on this earth know football and game planning. Maybe not as much as you but it's not like I didn't play or have a kid playing collegiate level football who saw many the same things I did. Riddle me this, how do we have one of the greatest regular seasons in our history, have a team travel 1-2 hours from where they live and blow a 17-7 lead?
Yes, some of it is on the players but what I saw from the stands was continually horrible tackling technique. Now Fremd engaged high, near the helmet and we deserved a few face mask penalties. But in the end, we made initial contact at the line of scrimmage and their backs ran thorough our bigger guys. Let me ask this why? Isn't their no practice regarding tackling done? Look at Minnesota or Seattle on the NFL, tackling at the rugby style is popular and effective. If you're a coach adapt because as great as the offense was the defense was atrocious. Fremd OWNED Rice at the line of scrimmage. I didn't mind the long completions even if I did but our ability to contain and hold the edge was non-existent. Has been since MC and SR. We were exploited yesterday...yet again.
And lastly, how do you have a team in 3-20 that is a RUNNING team 70% of the time and let them convert that? I work with a guy that's kid plays for LZ who beat Fremd by 2 TDs and lost to Montini.
I seen enough football in my 47 years on earth that saw a team that was lucky to be 8-1, won despite coaching deficiencies and hope as an Alum and contributor that they aw addressed. I don't doubt your commitment or the staff's for that matter. I know the students and their well being are paramount. But if you are on the staff, you get paid. You get money for your time so it's not as genuine as you make it sound. You want genuine? Talk to Ricky Smalling's dad who worked with him in the backyard before he was divorced or left when Ricky was 12 or something to that extent but kept working with Ricky because he told his dad he was going to be in the NFL. They had to replace the sod at Lamar's house as he would throw him 400 balls a day. His dad is a mail carrier bit makes as many games as possible and was questioning Badke at the SR when they almost blew that game.
What I see is awesome talent that is either underutilized or not growing. Now Borelli is no Cam Miller as Cam utilized his weapons and that's why we were on the quarterfinals and not one and done as an 8 seed. Sam ran through progressions and whatnot. Borelli threw 2 ints that led to TDs because he cannot progress or swivel his head. Locks on and done. That's how Fremd got their 1st int. Which led to a TD and the 2nd another one and what's up with Goal to go at the 2 and doing fade routes to your best player? Totally low percentage and bad play calling when you got a Valladay.
I have nothing but upmost respect for guys that work for and with kids as I have coaching little league and travel leagues bit when you're paid like I was not and you can't criticism then man, grow up. I didn't get paid and argued with parents to the high heaven but always respected an opinion. Ended winning 2 championships so prove me that you guys can adapt and coach, I'd love to see it.
Yes, some of it is on the players but what I saw from the stands was continually horrible tackling technique. Now Fremd engaged high, near the helmet and we deserved a few face mask penalties. But in the end, we made initial contact at the line of scrimmage and their backs ran thorough our bigger guys. Let me ask this why? Isn't their no practice regarding tackling done? Look at Minnesota or Seattle on the NFL, tackling at the rugby style is popular and effective. If you're a coach adapt because as great as the offense was the defense was atrocious. Fremd OWNED Rice at the line of scrimmage. I didn't mind the long completions even if I did but our ability to contain and hold the edge was non-existent. Has been since MC and SR. We were exploited yesterday...yet again.
And lastly, how do you have a team in 3-20 that is a RUNNING team 70% of the time and let them convert that? I work with a guy that's kid plays for LZ who beat Fremd by 2 TDs and lost to Montini.
I seen enough football in my 47 years on earth that saw a team that was lucky to be 8-1, won despite coaching deficiencies and hope as an Alum and contributor that they aw addressed. I don't doubt your commitment or the staff's for that matter. I know the students and their well being are paramount. But if you are on the staff, you get paid. You get money for your time so it's not as genuine as you make it sound. You want genuine? Talk to Ricky Smalling's dad who worked with him in the backyard before he was divorced or left when Ricky was 12 or something to that extent but kept working with Ricky because he told his dad he was going to be in the NFL. They had to replace the sod at Lamar's house as he would throw him 400 balls a day. His dad is a mail carrier bit makes as many games as possible and was questioning Badke at the SR when they almost blew that game.
What I see is awesome talent that is either underutilized or not growing. Now Borelli is no Cam Miller as Cam utilized his weapons and that's why we were on the quarterfinals and not one and done as an 8 seed. Sam ran through progressions and whatnot. Borelli threw 2 ints that led to TDs because he cannot progress or swivel his head. Locks on and done. That's how Fremd got their 1st int. Which led to a TD and the 2nd another one and what's up with Goal to go at the 2 and doing fade routes to your best player? Totally low percentage and bad play calling when you got a Valladay.
I have nothing but upmost respect for guys that work for and with kids as I have coaching little league and travel leagues bit when you're paid like I was not and you can't criticism then man, grow up. I didn't get paid and argued with parents to the high heaven but always respected an opinion. Ended winning 2 championships so prove me that you guys can adapt and coach, I'd love to see it.
I thought it would be a long time since I saw a receiver better then Miles Boykin....it only took 2 years. As a MC fan I'm glad I won't have to see #2 ever again, but as a fan of the game, he was a pleasure to watch. I have a feeling he may go somewhere besides U of I, but if ends up there and makes the grades and gets in, he'll be on the field as a true freshman.
BigKid87, I've been waiting all day for your response, and I'm a little disappointed it took so long! Nevertheless, your post proves my point even further (you are the ultimate armchair QB), and for that, I thank you! This is not a slight on you at all considering I'm not a coach, and I'm probably in 2nd place for MVP of armchair quarterbacking (I might even be in 1st place because I've wasted all day awaiting your response, ha). The only difference between my post and yours was that my post had substance and facts.
The reason I posted was simple: to give credit where credit is due and to dispel the fallacies in your original post (and others on this message board). As a matter of fact, I have friends who coach at numerous schools in the south suburbs, probably 7 or 8 schools. Had you falsely accused any of them of poor coaching, I would have defended them as well. I'm sure you can appreciate my point of view, as I appreciate yours (even though I completely disagree with you). But that's neither here nor there. The reason I replied is simple: Your original post was full of misconceptions, and I refuted them (pretty well at that). Everyone on this board should know how hard coaches work (as I am retired), and your post was inaccurate. My goal was to get you to think twice about posting assumptions about a staff that are almost entirely untrue.
By the way, I'm not a coach at Rice and I'm not paid by Rice. I also don't work at Rice, and I'm also not an alum. Actually, I'm more like a locust! I only come out when I have to. Your post forced me to come out from underneath my rock because your post was full of assumptions and false statements. I've read other posts you made, and it's evident that you are disappointed in Rice and their coaching staff.
I have a solution that will quell your displeasure with Rice: apply for a coaching position there, and I'll guarantee you get hired. Catholic schools are always looking for assistant coaches, whether the applicant has experience or not. If your work schedule doesn't allow for the time commitment, you could always help over the summer when you are available.
Enjoy playoff football, gentlemen! It's going to be great to see how 8A unfolds.
This will be my last post for a while as I generally don't engage in arguments on message boards even though I have had an enjoyable day waiting for BigKid87's response. Thank you for an amazing day of anticipation!
The reason I posted was simple: to give credit where credit is due and to dispel the fallacies in your original post (and others on this message board). As a matter of fact, I have friends who coach at numerous schools in the south suburbs, probably 7 or 8 schools. Had you falsely accused any of them of poor coaching, I would have defended them as well. I'm sure you can appreciate my point of view, as I appreciate yours (even though I completely disagree with you). But that's neither here nor there. The reason I replied is simple: Your original post was full of misconceptions, and I refuted them (pretty well at that). Everyone on this board should know how hard coaches work (as I am retired), and your post was inaccurate. My goal was to get you to think twice about posting assumptions about a staff that are almost entirely untrue.
By the way, I'm not a coach at Rice and I'm not paid by Rice. I also don't work at Rice, and I'm also not an alum. Actually, I'm more like a locust! I only come out when I have to. Your post forced me to come out from underneath my rock because your post was full of assumptions and false statements. I've read other posts you made, and it's evident that you are disappointed in Rice and their coaching staff.
I have a solution that will quell your displeasure with Rice: apply for a coaching position there, and I'll guarantee you get hired. Catholic schools are always looking for assistant coaches, whether the applicant has experience or not. If your work schedule doesn't allow for the time commitment, you could always help over the summer when you are available.
Enjoy playoff football, gentlemen! It's going to be great to see how 8A unfolds.
This will be my last post for a while as I generally don't engage in arguments on message boards even though I have had an enjoyable day waiting for BigKid87's response. Thank you for an amazing day of anticipation!
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I hope someone else pisses you off and your feel compelled to reply again, Coach!
My wife is currently yelling at me for posting on this message board, and she keeps yelling "glory days" at me. Both she and BigKid87 are mad at me for posting, so I'll stop. Crusader_of_90, your posts are flattering, but I really must stop. I truly am not a football coach anymore although I hope to get back into it when my children get older. It truly is a rewarding profession, and that is why BigKid87 needed things put into perspective.
feeto:
You are absolutely right: Every rational-thinking person on this board familiar with you greets any word you print regarding Rice with deep skepticism.
What is actually worse than your claim Rice's head coach uttered such a pessimistic view of his team's first-round opponent is the fact you took to spill digital ink mentioning the "chance" encounter you claim to have had took place at a grade school football game. Both familiar with and often a participant in threads which outline the civil war on the south side over potential student athletes, I have drawn the conclusion you mentioned this "chance" meeting with Badke and the setting to ignite yet another battle over the recruitment of athletes.
What you typically print relevant to Rice rarely passes the smell test. In this case, your describing a "chance" meeting with Badke doesn't pass a laugh test.
I might be able to offer a solution for one half of your dilemma,... take the dog for a walk (wives love that) but bring your phone and then post away!!!!!!!
You can think what you want, but I never lie on this website. If you check my bracket, I have Rice winning 8a. If you ever go to a grammar school game at Rice, you'll see Badke pressing the flesh all day. That's just one more way he's turned Rice into a winning program. As I said before, I like Brian and most of what he's done at BR. He did however tell me he wasn't worried about Fremd. FACT.
Understanding the dynamics more, if I heard such a statement from a "rival" coach, I'd share publicly too because there can be no expectation of privacy if you do not have a personal relationship with the man. He is the "enemy." I get that.
Smalling was the perfect player for that offense. he would have been really good no matter where he went just based on talent. by choosing br he was able to maximize his potential. to think for the last 2 years br best offensive play has been a bubble screen is amazing .
17 returning starters including the two Williams....
I guess every year is supposed to be the year.
But being close is better than not.
I guess every year is supposed to be the year.
But being close is better than not.
I would argue they had the best collection of Offensive talent in the state this year and were near the top last year. I think they were looking to Loyola part II. Their sophs coming up are very good but they had the best WR in the state in Smalling along with other D1s on Offense (Valladay, Lacy, Houston) and arguably Borelli. I'd say they had a lot more go to skill guys than most. Rice fans were optimistic with this group coming back this year so I find it hard to believe this wasn't the year.
How do you get called out and go from bad to worse? First, critiquing a coaching staff...now critiquing kids that played their hearts out? Lets ask some questions...How many Interceptions did Borelli throw this season? How about Cam last year?
How did a team, that has now blown out the Rice scoring record set last season (in one less game by the way) with less plays under-utilize their players? Did they do that by only scoring 42? Only scoring 37 vs. Loyola? Only 49 on Carmel?
Maybe they underutilized their players by throwing a fade to the best WR in the state getting single coverage?
That is silly. Just silly.
I take it you didn't see the game against Fremd or this last one or any of the last of Rice's last 3 games which ended up in defeat if a team that lost their last 3 games in a row.
I will never or not call out a kid. They are coached by people who get paid. They should be up for criticism. I work a job where I'm paid and have to deal with criticism it's he nature of living in a capitalist society.
My point in offensive development was what I SAW, IN PERSON, an offense that's great because of weaponry. I also saw a QB all season long, while in a spread offense, lock in on one receiver and missed opportunities down field because they didn't progress he doesn't progress his reads. How is that not on coaching???
As far as the defense goes, no adjustments made these last three games to counter the opponents's offense. Again, so much talent and little in game half time adjustment. I know they're young and the hope is they learn from these experiences. Late season losses where you're up big Palatine last year and now MC where you end up losing the game speaks to changes or adjustments being made. Offense is awesome but your Achille's heal was this defenses over end and it seems the attention was given totally to offense. I saw no edges or outside contain and my point of Smalling's playing both ways was he takes away at least a 1/4 of the field when he's out there. Even if he's tired a Valladay, Houston or Lacy makes up his difference on the plus side of the ball. I love what Badke has done and am not a detractor though I may sound like one but his adjustments and play calling leave something to be desired. Last point, can anyone defend getting a fumble late in the first half against Loyola up 2 scores and you try, after a sack and near fumble, to continually try and score. Bad decision. Bad, bad decision.
I will never or not call out a kid. They are coached by people who get paid. They should be up for criticism. I work a job where I'm paid and have to deal with criticism it's he nature of living in a capitalist society.
My point in offensive development was what I SAW, IN PERSON, an offense that's great because of weaponry. I also saw a QB all season long, while in a spread offense, lock in on one receiver and missed opportunities down field because they didn't progress he doesn't progress his reads. How is that not on coaching???
As far as the defense goes, no adjustments made these last three games to counter the opponents's offense. Again, so much talent and little in game half time adjustment. I know they're young and the hope is they learn from these experiences. Late season losses where you're up big Palatine last year and now MC where you end up losing the game speaks to changes or adjustments being made. Offense is awesome but your Achille's heal was this defenses over end and it seems the attention was given totally to offense. I saw no edges or outside contain and my point of Smalling's playing both ways was he takes away at least a 1/4 of the field when he's out there. Even if he's tired a Valladay, Houston or Lacy makes up his difference on the plus side of the ball. I love what Badke has done and am not a detractor though I may sound like one but his adjustments and play calling leave something to be desired. Last point, can anyone defend getting a fumble late in the first half against Loyola up 2 scores and you try, after a sack and near fumble, to continually try and score. Bad decision. Bad, bad decision.
Please list all the teams you watch whose Qbs check down to their second or third options with any regularity. It does not happen in high school.
Not knowing a lot about either team it seems to me neither team played very good defense. 45-42 is not playing defense. Rice better fix the otherside of the ball next year or they will be in the same situation.
Think what you meant to say...was you saw a QB....shatter Cam Millers records. How does a team with two 1,000 yard WR's lock in on only one? Seems pretty hard to do...or miraculous I guess...maybe magic.
Oh, an offense that broke the scoring record (again) Terrible, terrible.
To reiterate...Dino led a team, to another broken scoring record, two 1,000 yard WR, nearly breaking the Rushing record, breaking the TD in a single game, breaking the total yards passing, breaking the all time TD passes in a season, and doing all of that while running LESS plays. Great analysis sir. Solid. (Did I mention he threw less interception than Cam? Ah...but you know what his reads were I bet.
Can you name a read he continually (or just once) missed? Doubt it.
You're right mce86, he "shattered" Miller's records, difference is Miller took his team to the Quarterfinals of State and an eyelash short of getting to the semis and Borelli didn't. The second best team in the CCL won't even play in the Prep Bowl. When you have the TALENT offensively like Rice had you can get away with one read. You can PUT UP BIG STATS and if you know Borelli than tell him to thank Smalling and Houston and Valladay that matter for padding his stats with amazing YAC (that means yards after the catch). I don't blame the failures on this season on Borelli. He managed a juggernaut respectfully. He did what he could. But he made mistakes, big mistakes in big games when they didn't need them. Pick against MC late in game 1 but D actually held and won. Fumble late in 1stH against Loyola (blame the coaches more) and 2 bad picks against Fremd that led to 2 TDs. I'll leave it at that.
And mc140, I take it your a Mt. Carmel fan and are a big fan of the veer but can I tell you something? The game has changed from the veer and the triple T. It isn't a running game anymore and if you instill a "spread" offense than you better coach your kids on how to read a defense and how to use thier "reads" to their advantage. Defenses are getting ad sophisticated as offenses with Cover 2's and Cover 3's that you better be prepared. I watch Rice, a lot and I saw Nicholson in a more traditional pro set offense look off his receivers and hit the open man. I've watched Rice and love the Offense and saw Miller look off Smalling when they rolled the safety on him last year and went to his second or third read. I saw FREMD, who is a run first team with a very capable and underutilized QB, look off guys and picked up 1st Downs off second and third looks. I don't watch 30 games a week to tell you but if I ran a spread and coached these kids my QBs head would be a swivel from left to right or via a via.
And Knock the House, I've seen your posts you make me feel like I'm football dumber after reading them but thanks for playing and contributing nothing to this dialogue.
And mc140, I take it your a Mt. Carmel fan and are a big fan of the veer but can I tell you something? The game has changed from the veer and the triple T. It isn't a running game anymore and if you instill a "spread" offense than you better coach your kids on how to read a defense and how to use thier "reads" to their advantage. Defenses are getting ad sophisticated as offenses with Cover 2's and Cover 3's that you better be prepared. I watch Rice, a lot and I saw Nicholson in a more traditional pro set offense look off his receivers and hit the open man. I've watched Rice and love the Offense and saw Miller look off Smalling when they rolled the safety on him last year and went to his second or third read. I saw FREMD, who is a run first team with a very capable and underutilized QB, look off guys and picked up 1st Downs off second and third looks. I don't watch 30 games a week to tell you but if I ran a spread and coached these kids my QBs head would be a swivel from left to right or via a via.
And Knock the House, I've seen your posts you make me feel like I'm football dumber after reading them but thanks for playing and contributing nothing to this dialogue.
Are freaking Rice fans so darn insensitive that they can't take criticism from one of their own. If that's the case than I will denounce my alma mater to make the rest happy and tell Mike McShane I'm done giving money since my own cannot accept criticism. I love being a Rice alum and fan but geez, when we do do the bed, let's call it at that. This could've been a special Season and it was not. We UNDERACHIEVED. Understand that, ACCEPT THAT and let us move on. What are we going to do next protest Trump Towers???? I expected better based on what we had, you should've expected better. I put most on the coaching, I gave a pass lady year's BLOWN loss against Palantine on the youth of the staff but apparently they haven't learned from their mistakes which makes me to believe they're stubborn. Bad move if so.
Mce86, I'll give you several reads just in the Fremd game alone. 1st interception, has Houston WIDE open but throws it cautiously and pits too much air LCB reads cuts in front of Hoiston and picks it. Leads to a TD. Damn.... Smalling running a fly route on the right side was open by 20 yards and could've scored easy on an under thrown ball. How do you not even give one look at the best player on this field by far? Why? Because he's a decent QB but not a good one. Where's Dino playing college ball? At least Miller whether walk on or not is on a Big 10 roster. Miller went to Quarterfinals. Millers reads were far superior. 'Nuff said.
And how does the rushing record or whatever come on the QBs hands??? How bout that D1 back helped Borelli get the inflated stats he did??? How about that. I've never seen a QB with a D1 WR and D1 RB underachieve so bad ever in HS football. When you have that talent behind you, you're at lest going to the Semis at the very worst. Again underachieving year and I'm calling it out and people are pissed. Well get mad at the ones that caused it rather than me.
And how does the rushing record or whatever come on the QBs hands??? How bout that D1 back helped Borelli get the inflated stats he did??? How about that. I've never seen a QB with a D1 WR and D1 RB underachieve so bad ever in HS football. When you have that talent behind you, you're at lest going to the Semis at the very worst. Again underachieving year and I'm calling it out and people are pissed. Well get mad at the ones that caused it rather than me.
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I must be missing something here. Borrelli failed as a QB because he only threw 40TD (more than CM) 6 INT (Less than CM) while orchestrating an O that scored 45 points a game?
How may points did Cam's D let up per game? In the playoffs?
You can call out whoever you want but going after an 18 year old kid is uncalled for. todays loss had nothing to do with the qb. it had to do with 1 team came out in the second half and wanted it and the other team did not. if you want to blame that on the coaches or the players that's your call. but calling out an 18 yr old kids is ridiculous grow up find a hobby. the biggest problem with rice all year and their a chilies heel was there line play on both sides of the ball. valladay had great stats for 2 reasons he's a good player and defenses never focused on him. bring on and do line where there biggest weakness and it showed at the end of the year losing 3 of their last 4 games.
Now..sounds to me like you like to give criticism...but not take it.
Easy big kid..
Now if you recall..or if you were there...the Int against MC was a drop that fell into the hands.
Now...you mentioned some poor throws, but nothing about reads. Your criticism was these phantom reads.
Again, he had less ints than Cam...more yards and more TD's on about a third less attmepts. That's not a knock on Cam.
Its saying, criticize the coaches, lets not criticize players...especially one you think underperformed in a 42 point loss.
If youre willing to criticize a kid...as a man you should be able to take some criticism back!
Guys, I'm not criticizing Borelli, I think he managed the offense just fine. I personally thought Miller was a better QB but hey, let's let stats get in the way (10 yard outs when Smalling runs 70 making 6 tacklers miss equals TDs and yardage to the QB). Is Emmitt Smith a better RB than Walter, no way in hell. Stats say Smith was better though. My point was to illustrate that stats don't mean anything, not to demean a kid. To me, as a staff, you know your players. You owe it to your players to make them better. You have 4 weapons in your arsenal that are above grade, you know teams are going to key on one or two of them than you better work on showing your QB how to look off a receiver and go to a second read at least.
Offense was phenomal but to say it was all Borelli ? Come on man?!?!!? There was the Smalling's and Valladay's that helped. There might be some but tell me what QB operated under an offense with a D1 RB and WR? Not many. And with a prolific offense like that, to lose in the first round of State as an 8 Seed and then lose to a team you beat earlier in the year at your field??? How does that happen??? Bad preparation, bad adjustments, bad game planning, all rest at the coaches feet. This was one of the most fun and athletic teams to watch and see them out makes me say WTF??? The kids deserved better and I hope this staff learned some hard lessons. They may never as talented a group as this again.
Offense was phenomal but to say it was all Borelli ? Come on man?!?!!? There was the Smalling's and Valladay's that helped. There might be some but tell me what QB operated under an offense with a D1 RB and WR? Not many. And with a prolific offense like that, to lose in the first round of State as an 8 Seed and then lose to a team you beat earlier in the year at your field??? How does that happen??? Bad preparation, bad adjustments, bad game planning, all rest at the coaches feet. This was one of the most fun and athletic teams to watch and see them out makes me say WTF??? The kids deserved better and I hope this staff learned some hard lessons. They may never as talented a group as this again.
The kids deserve better? No reason for that comment. Are you saying the coaches didn't give their best and put in countless hours?
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Brother Rice has more skill talent than any team around and failed to win anything.
Blowing big leads and poor defense has become a trademark for them.
Maybe it is a chicken / egg thing with their offensive philosophy leading to an exposed defense.
There seems to be annual coaching conversation in regard to how the staff is still learning.
Last year they blew a 21 point lead to Palatine, this year a 10 point lead to Fremd (which quickly turned into a 17 deficit) and then a 21 point lead to MC. At some point there is preparation, focus or game plan issue.
All of these issues leads me to wonder why the head coach took over calling the defense when there seems to still be a learning curve in over all game management.
Next year could be a little rough for them but they seem to have traction in bringing in solid classes so the future likes bright. Badke's system seems like a Ron Zook type thing with having talent but not getting the most out of it.
Blowing big leads and poor defense has become a trademark for them.
Maybe it is a chicken / egg thing with their offensive philosophy leading to an exposed defense.
There seems to be annual coaching conversation in regard to how the staff is still learning.
Last year they blew a 21 point lead to Palatine, this year a 10 point lead to Fremd (which quickly turned into a 17 deficit) and then a 21 point lead to MC. At some point there is preparation, focus or game plan issue.
All of these issues leads me to wonder why the head coach took over calling the defense when there seems to still be a learning curve in over all game management.
Next year could be a little rough for them but they seem to have traction in bringing in solid classes so the future likes bright. Badke's system seems like a Ron Zook type thing with having talent but not getting the most out of it.
I said this a couple of weeks ago. This is part of the problem at Rice. Again, Badke was not being cocky, but he did overlook a playoff opponent.