Sam DuBose Murder

JohnBlue

Heisman
Jul 22, 2003
188,376
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Kill the rhetoric if you want to have a discussion. I'm not "lying" about anything. Bland didn't run. She didn't fight. She was non-compliant, tossed around like a rag doll, and was alive when taken into custody. We'll never know the truth of what happened after that.

Historically women have been blamed for being raped because of those choices (dressing a certain way, drinking too much) with the same faulty logic that you used. That's a pretty clear analogy.

More lie's. She struck an officer, that's considered fighting. As is resisting arrest. She also committed suicide, not murdered by police as you suggested. Try staying on this topic, it's less confusing for you and everyone else if you do. Saying a woman deserved it has not kept the thousands convicted of rape from being in prison right now. Whack generalizations that have nothing to do with this topic. You're trying to win an argument in middle of the rest of us discussing Sam Dubose' death.
 

JohnBlue

Heisman
Jul 22, 2003
188,376
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99% of the time they do. The other 1% time they get shot in the face apparently.

Why can't some cops just do as they're told in training?

99% of them do. Everyone expects perfection from people doing a low paying job no else wants to do. No career path is filled with perfect people, that is why this cop has been charged with murder.
 

Ahnan E. Muss

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Nov 13, 2003
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99% of them do. Everyone expects perfection from people doing a low paying job no else wants to do. No career path is filled with perfect people, that is why this cop has been charged with murder.

I don't expect perfection from police. Nor do I expect to get shot in the head if/when I get pulled over for a minor vehicle infraction.
 
May 6, 2002
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More lie's. She struck an officer, that's considered fighting. As is resisting arrest. She also committed suicide, not murdered by police as you suggested. Try staying on this topic, it's less confusing for you and everyone else if you do. Saying a woman deserved it has not kept the thousands convicted of rape from being in prison right now. Whack generalizations that have nothing to do with this topic. You're trying to win an argument in middle of the rest of us discussing Sam Dubose' death.
*lies, not lie's. I can make this a basic AF conversation too, if you'd like. You're telling me I'm trying to win an argument while you keep going on about "Lies! Lies!" on matters of disagreement.

You're the one who keeps focusing on that aspect of the conversation, forcing me to come back to it. You have no proof that Sandra Bland committed suicide. I have no proof she didn't. The coroner's report isn't proof, btw. That's why I said we don't know what happened.

With that I'll wrap it up. You're caught up in your own confirmation bias, nothing I say is going to change that, and I hate dealing with fallacies.
 

Bill Cosby

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May 1, 2008
29,257
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Is BristolCat a teenage girl. Goodness. The world is a tough place, man. You're going to have to grow up or it's going to eat you alive.
 
May 6, 2002
24,969
50,325
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Is BristolCat a teenage girl. Goodness. The world is a tough place, man. You're going to have to grow up or it's going to eat you alive.
As far as I can tell, no one else in this thread, regardless of their position on this case, seems to like you, or your sexism, or your thinly veiled racism either. Maybe we're all a bunch of teenage girls.
 
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WonderBraa

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Feb 19, 2012
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Cop gives order
Man doesn't follow orders (Illegal)
Man attempts to get away (Illegal)
Internet surprised man was punished
 
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Bill Cosby

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May 1, 2008
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bluelifer

Senior
Feb 25, 2009
752
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I love how people keep saying 'just do what the cops tell you and stuff like this won't happen.'

Last I checked, there is a punishment for things like resisting arrest or trying to flee or evade the police, and it sure as hell isn't execution. The only way this cop's actions would be justified is if Dubose had a weapon, and was in fact, reaching for it.

If Dubose wasn't trying to kill the officer, he should receive exactly zero blame in this scenario. I don't care if he's been arrested 800 times, has 75 illegitimate children and has an open gin bottle shoved permanently up his ***.
 

cat_chaser

Heisman
Sep 10, 2008
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Pretty sure he got knocked to the ground AFTER he put a bullet between the dude's eyes and his lifeless body fell forward, punching the accelerator. F'n campus police. Good grief.
 

JohnBlue

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Jul 22, 2003
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Then comply with law enforcement commands.
You're the one who keeps focusing on that aspect of the conversation, forcing me to come back to it. You have no proof that Sandra Bland committed suicide. I have no proof she didn't. The coroner's report isn't proof, btw. That's why I said we don't know what happened.

If you didn't believe what you posted then how the heck did you expect me to? I can respect different opinions but no one should make stuff up and try to mislead people. The medical examiner stated (he's a professional keep in mind) that she committed suicide from the evidence of her autopsy. Internet rumors by idiots who love to dream up conspiracy theory's are not factual.
 

WonderBraa

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Bluelifer...learn to read.

Nobody is saying the cop was right to shoot him. But do you think the man would've been shot if he had got out of the car as ordered or didn't drive off? When you disobey orders from the law you're playing with fire. It's like leaving your wallet in your car at night....you shouldn't have to worry about it getting stolen but you're asking for it by leaving it out there.
 
May 6, 2002
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Then comply with law enforcement commands.


If you didn't believe what you posted then how the heck did you expect me to? I can respect different opinions but no one should make stuff up and try to mislead people. The medical examiner stated (he's a professional keep in mind) that she committed suicide from the evidence of her autopsy. Internet rumors by idiots who love to dream up conspiracy theory's are not factual.

I'm not interested in this conversation with you. Move on.
 

cat_chaser

Heisman
Sep 10, 2008
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The best hope this campus cop has is to convince a jury it accidentally discharged when the vehicle started moving (if It started moving).

At that point it becomes involuntary manslaughter, right lawyers?
 

VT/UK Rondo

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Aug 2, 2009
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This was a ridiculous traffic stop to begin with. We all know the campus cop couldn't wait to pull over some guy over a technicality, out of his patrol area no less. He thought he had a DUI arrest (which they should stop giving out awards for highest DUI arrests, etc. But that's anther topic).

Dubose was compliant. Handed an unopened bottle of liquor. Explained the registration issue. Then he started balking on the license, which he clearly didn't have with him.

The officer should have just ran his name, to see if he had a valid license or not. Instead, the officer physically opens the door and attempts to drag Dubose out (rather than asking him to step out of the vehicle, as is the protocol). Dubose reacts by pulling the door shut, which at that point is a fairly reasonable response. Then the officer begins reaching into the car for whatever reason, and Dubose tries to drive away; an illegal choice, but not one requiring any sort of lethal action let alone lethal force being the immediate option.

The solution is easy. Big picture - increase pay. It gets better applicants. Case specific, this The officer created a tense situation, when it could have easily been avoided. Then he resorted to lethal force immediately, and without cause. Finally he lied about his report, which proves hes both stupid and unethical considering he knew he was wearing a body cam.

But you've admitted you were in corrections/LE; so that explains why youre in the "IF HE JUST DID EVERYTHING HE WAS TOLD HE WOULDNT GET SHOT IN THE HEAD" crowd.

I stopped reading when you defended drunk driving...your either young or stupid or both.
 

bluelifer

Senior
Feb 25, 2009
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Bluelifer...learn to read.

Nobody is saying the cop was right to shoot him. But do you think the man would've been shot if he had got out of the car as ordered or didn't drive off? When you disobey orders from the law you're playing with fire. It's like leaving your wallet in your car at night....you shouldn't have to worry about it getting stolen but you're asking for it by leaving it out there.

Maybe don't compare having your wallet stolen to getting your gd head blown off by a cop, and I might take you seriously.

This is exactly what I was referring to.
 

WonderBraa

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The concept is consistent in both Bluelifer. When you make bad decisions....sometimes even worse consequences happen.
 

Ukbrassowtipin

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Aug 12, 2011
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When will police learn to get rid of their condescending behavior... not a racial issue, but once again terrible police work. And two if they would quit digging for everything and anything after they pull someone over for something else. He didnt have his front plate..okay...oh the humanity. Write the ticket for it and move your ***.
 

bluelifer

Senior
Feb 25, 2009
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The concept is consistent in both Bluelifer. When you make bad decisions....sometimes even worse consequences happen.

Very true. I'm just saying that, especially when trained law enforcement are involved, there should be no gray area when deadly force is involved. I don't want to hear "he may have been reaching for something" or "it looked like he had a knife". Either the suspect was clearly trying to harm the officer (or other innocent people) or he wasn't. To me, nothing else should justify drawing a firearm.
 

WonderBraa

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Feb 19, 2012
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DaBoss, no it doesn't fit. I'm not taking up for the cop. He's absolutely wrong. But the guy driving could've prevented all of this by not breaking the law and driving off.

Now you could say "well this could've been prevented if the cop was not an idiot" and you would be right. But in this world you have to obey the law even when it sucks so the driver should have fully cooperated.
 
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Ukbrassowtipin

Heisman
Aug 12, 2011
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Sadly, this is the best advice. Its just sad its come to this.

As Ive posted numerous times, its a matter of awful applicant pool. Most, if not all, of these horrific videos are at the hands of officers who should've never been on the street for one reason or the next. These positions are awful hours, awful pay, and often awful/no benefits. Why would anyone with any potential want these jobs? Unless of course, its to exert authority over the general public; which is basically whats happening.

Instead of giving McD's workers $15/hour, pay should be increased for law enforcement. That way there will be better job applicants, and therefore less atrocities at the hands of imbeciles.

I don't know if they need better pay..most of their work is uneventful being ticket fairies for laws that were made out of political gain or monetary reasons for the government not actual public safety. Is not having a front license plate a huge safety concern? Apparently not since we don't require it in KY. It's another reason to get money. Police lose sight that they are public servants, not Wyatt Earp.
 

DaBossIsBack

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Jun 28, 2013
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Then comply with law enforcement commands.


If you didn't believe what you posted then how the heck did you expect me to? I can respect different opinions but no one should make stuff up and try to mislead people. The medical examiner stated (he's a professional keep in mind) that she committed suicide from the evidence of her autopsy. Internet rumors by idiots who love to dream up conspiracy theory's are not factual.
So if an officer is giving you unreasonable commands you should still comply? That's BS.
 
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WonderBraa

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Feb 19, 2012
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DaBoss, what was unreasonable about the officers commands? The driver couldn't answer a simple question, had liquor in the car, and refused to get out of the car.
 

bluelifer

Senior
Feb 25, 2009
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Here's a list I found on commonsense.gov assigning a numerical value of 0-10 to various actions, indicating how likely you are to having your brains blown out by the cops. 0 being no chance whatsoever, and 10 being eat lead fool.

Smarting off to police 0
Running from police. 0
Resisting arrest. 0
Ask cop to pull finger. 0
Get cop's nose. 0
Attempt to harm cop or others. 10

That's it, that's the list.
 

CatDaddy4daWin

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Dec 11, 2013
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More than 550 people have been shot and killed by police this year, it keeps going up every year. If not for the body camera, he'd gotten away with it as other officers backed up his b.s. story. That's the real horror here. Cops will lie for each other at the drop of a hat. Better buy stock in body camera makers because they're gonna be required by all law enforcement after this. People are gonna demand it.

Since they don't know how to properly use force, I say we take their guns away until they learn how to actually interact with the public.

I'm also curious how this cop shot his gun so quick. Did he have it drawn already? Or did he draw his weapon and the guy got scared and tried to drive off. Either way, that's not an offense that requires a mafia style killing. Cops are out of control.