Sam DuBose Murder
- Thread starter joeyrupption
- Start date
I heard reports saying there were arrests for domestic violence and also for assault. Were those reports debunked?
Same here. We know from the video that this particular incident didn't warrant deadly force - or any other kind of force for that matter. For example, trying to drag Dubose out of the car.
Decided to look it up. According to Fox Cincinnati he did time in 2005 for weed trafficking. He'd also faced charges for assault and burglary, but those charges were dropped.
EDIT: According to the linked article, most of his arrests were for misdemeanor drug crimes and traffic offenses.
http://www.fox10tv.com/story/295829...d-by-uc-police-officer-following-traffic-stop
So what could have prevented this death?
-A cop who was better at his job.
-The idiot answering questions and following orders.
None of these happened. Both parties are in the wrong. But the first event to happen was the driver attempted to get away. If he doesn't do that then I bet he's alive today. He started the chain of events. im not attempting to place blame, simply stating that these people have to be smarter.
-A cop who was better at his job.
-The idiot answering questions and following orders.
None of these happened. Both parties are in the wrong. But the first event to happen was the driver attempted to get away. If he doesn't do that then I bet he's alive today. He started the chain of events. im not attempting to place blame, simply stating that these people have to be smarter.
False, he tried to flee when the officer tried to drag him out of the car. He had never been ordered out of the car, the officer had only asked him to take off his seat belt, and Dubose had asked why. The cop immediately went for the door, Dubose freaked out and started the car, the cop reached through the window with his gun and shot him point blank in the head.
WTF are you all bringing up his priors? The cop had no information about the person in the car. He didn't know his name. The only information he had to act upon was:
- car had no front plate
- car was registered to a woman
- he had an unopened bottle of gin (given to the officer willingly)
The only other thing is that he insisted that he did have a valid license (but didn't have it on him), and asked the officer to run his name.
Pretty clear the guy is a murderer. Hope he gets his.
But I don't hate cops like most of you. I know and have known too many to hate them. I respect the job they have to do for the most part. Regardless, there are so many more good ones than there will ever be bad ones. But they don't make the news.. So it goes.
And I don't consider campus cops real since I used to work for a university and saw their fly by night methods. Hope they get disbanded or unarmed. None of them should be able to carry anything more than a can of pepper spray.
But I don't hate cops like most of you. I know and have known too many to hate them. I respect the job they have to do for the most part. Regardless, there are so many more good ones than there will ever be bad ones. But they don't make the news.. So it goes.
And I don't consider campus cops real since I used to work for a university and saw their fly by night methods. Hope they get disbanded or unarmed. None of them should be able to carry anything more than a can of pepper spray.
Most in here dont hate cops, just a few. Most here respect the jobs they do. Yet you are saying you dont respect University cops? Uhm, so you do respect cops, but at same time, you dont?
As Chase astutely pointed out, I'm no criminal lawyer. But how on earth can you tell the car isn't moving before the gunshot from that jumbly *** video?
I hear the engine revving before the shot, and then the revving higher after the shot. I don't think there's any way you can tell from that video that the car isn't moving. Honestly from the slow mo video it looks like the car is changing position in reference to the background, but that might just be the angle of the camera.
Point being. He didn't just walk up to the car and execute the guy. I'd love everyone to get off the murder bandwagon sooner rather than later. Then when he's not convicted of murder, please refrain from rioting in the street of the city I spend about 6 out of 7 days a week in.
Jesus...try reading.
I said I don't consider them real cops. UC is learning it the hard way. If you do, good on you. I don't.
So you're telling me that in the same situation, you would've try to drive away from the police officer too? The idiot couldn't answer the simple question of "do you have a license on you?"....obviously there was something he didn't want the officer to know. And saying he was dragged out of the car is a stretch. The officer tried to open the door (I'll agree he shouldn't have) and the man pulled it shut and drive off. The liquor container prlly gives him enough reason to enter the car without a warrant anyway.
Let's face it. Cops have the power. Follow orders and it'll prlly save your life. I don't like their sense of dominance either but if I've learned anything from these past shootings, it's that I should just keep my mouth shut. I don't know what else to say. For the time being, they are in control. But if it keeps me alive then I'll follow orders and move on. I've been pulled over once in 15 years of driving so I don't think it's a big issue for me to swallow my pride and be cool in the off chance that I'm pulled over again. Ain't worth dying over.
Uhm, you made contradictory statements, not sure you have the right to call people dumbass here Quasimodo. At least be smart enough to participate in the conversation.
No, the unopened bottle of gin doesn't give him the right to enter the vehicle without consent, any more than an unopened 12 pack of beer you just bought at Kroger would if you were pulled over for a trivial violation - especially since he'd already handed it to the officer. Also, he did tell him that he had a license repeatedly, and finally admitted that he didn't have it on his person. That's why he'd asked the cop to run his name - which the officer never bothered to ask. He shot him without ever even asking his name.
Run his name? He could've given him any name he wanted. There's a reason we are required to carry our license. And I understand the open container laws but for me to assume the bottle was unopened would be jumping to conclusions.
Hahahaha man go watch the damn video again. The officer repeatedly asks "do you have your license on you?". The guy can't answer the simple question.
He says over and over again "I have a license." Finally, he admits not having it on him - but driving with a suspended license isn't the same as driving without your (valid) license on you.
Are you saying that the officer was justified in attempting to remove Dubose from the car forcibly, when he'd never even asked him to get out or asked his f'n name?
Saying the officer was trying to forcibly remove him is just as wild as saying Dubose tried to drag and run him over.
The officer did try to open the door after Dubose wouldn't take the seatbelt off...then reached in, in a panic when Dubose started the car and put it in drive.
The officer wasn't fit for the job - handled it about as bad as can be. With all the times Dubose had been stopped, seems like he made a few bad decisions during this one time as well. Horrible.
The officer did try to open the door after Dubose wouldn't take the seatbelt off...then reached in, in a panic when Dubose started the car and put it in drive.
The officer wasn't fit for the job - handled it about as bad as can be. With all the times Dubose had been stopped, seems like he made a few bad decisions during this one time as well. Horrible.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE WAS TRYING TO DRIVE OFF!!!
It only gave the cop a reason to take him to jail, not execute him.
NEVER was the guy threatening, there was no reason for quick draw McGraw to have ever unholstered his weapon. Absolutely zero reason.
Cops are held to a higher standard than the civilians...the cop should have known how to handle the situation even if it meant that this guy drives away.
The only bad decision he made was trying to drive off (which is the worst decision he could have made). He didn't however just peel out...He actually started to drive away slowly which is why the cop was able to shoot him in the first place.
Other than that, he didn't remove his seatbelt but asked why he needed to. He complied with all other officer orders. He willingly told him about the gin and gave him the bottle. He handed him the front license plate out of the glove box. He repeatedly said he didn't have his license and implored the cop to just run his name. He wasn't mouthy. He wasn't belligerent. He did basically everything this board repeatedly says to do. He didn't deserve to be shot. The cop definitely deserves to be in jail though.
What's funny is that we all agree the cop is wrong. But the other half can't comprehend that just following orders could've saved his life and that the stupidity of the driver lead to his death. Wtf do you wanna do? Take down the police dept? Fine go ahead but I'll stick to just avoiding these situations.
Not unbuckling your seatbelt when asked, shutting the door that the cop is trying to open, re-starting the car while the cop is right next to it and trying to pull off, again while the cop was right next to it were bad decisions. And to say he was going to slowly pull away is a pretty large assumption.
None of those decisions deserve a bullet, though. Again, the cop handled his side of things as bad as it gets. Horrible.
How is this that hard to comprehend? The driver wouldn't answer the question of "do you have your license on you?". He didn't say "do you have a license?".....everybody has a f******* license. Why act shady about it? Tell him you don't have it ON you. No big deal.
But nooooooo he's gotta dance around the question. And the officer never "forcibly" tried to remove him from the car. He tried to open the door. Completely different.
Why do you keep going back to this name stuff? The guy's name means nothing at this point in the situation. He's not cooperating, he's acting shady, chances are he would've given a fake name. The idiot should've answered "I do not have my license on me". Then sat and awaited order from the cop. The common factor in all these shootings is that the victims make a rash decision first and it kills them.
Everyone in the thread has agreed that the cop is an idiot and was wrong. But the whole thing didn't go down where the cop pulls him over and then shoots him immediately. No, the cop pulled victim over, gave orders, orders weren't followed, victim attempts to flee (illegal), victim dies.
The problem is he didn't have to remove his seatbelt unless the cop tells you to step out of the vehicle which he didn't. The cop had no reason to open his door. Restarting the car wasn't a good decision. If he wanted to speed away violently, you would have seen it in the video. It is just as big an assumption to say he was trying to speed away.
I said he was trying to pull off - as he put the car in drive (never said speed away)...we don't know whether he was going to put his blinker on and slowly merge on out or violently peel out...
And the cop asked him to remove the seatbelt...being defiant against that request isn't a good decision.
Hell, one time I unbuckled my belt during a stop and the cop freaked out on me...I put him on high alert with that move...but I then asked if he wanted me to re-buckle, I complied and I think we were straightened out. I'm sure I had every right to unbuckle and stay unbuckled, but It wasn't worth getting this cop all worked up.
Let's pretend you're right, we will say he had NO right to open the door. If you're the driver, why not just do what the dumbass cop wants and get out of the car? As much as we don't want to, we are supposed to follow orders from the police. Just do it. Would him getting out of the car as ordered be worse than him getting shot?
We can't change the police and how they react. But we can change how we ourselves handles idiots like that cop. Take the high road. It'll save your life.
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There are plenty of reasons why you don't let the cop do whatever he wants. The cop has no right to enter your vehicle without either a warrant or your consent, unless (text from flexyourrights.org):
"While police generally need a warrant to search you or your property — during a traffic stop, police only need probable cause to legally search your vehicle. Probable cause means police must have some facts or evidence to believe you’re involved in criminal activity.
In other words, an officer’s hunch without evidence of illegal activity is not enough to legally search your car. Before searching, he must observe something real. Common examples of probable cause include the sight or smell of contraband in plain view or plain smell, or an admission of guilt for a specific crime. The presentation of any of these facts would allow an officer to perform a search and make an arrest.
Be aware that minor traffic violations (e.g. speeding, broken tail-light, or expired registration) are not considered probable cause."
http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-search-your-car/
All I'm saying is I'm gonna learn from all these shootings.
Fine cop, I'll get out of the car bc arguing isn't going to win. I'll take care of the cop in court at a later date.
Fine cop, I'll get out of the car bc arguing isn't going to win. I'll take care of the cop in court at a later date.
Meanwhile there's YouTube montages of angry white men sticking business cards through cracked windows that say "I know my rights, I ain't answering ****, unless I'm being detained, I'm leaving."
And nobody is shooting them or lamenting their inability to follow orders.
And nobody is shooting them or lamenting their inability to follow orders.
Have fun with that. I'll just post the rest of the bit I took the excerpt from a few posts back, so you'll maybe understand why you do not have to do what a cop tells you at all times in all situations:
Okay. So how can I keep police from searching my car?
Simply understanding the legal definition of probable cause probably won’t be enough to prepare you for the pressure and confusion of a real police encounter.
Most police are able to exploit a major loophole to the probable cause search requirement. But by following these basic rules, you’ll be better able to prevent police from tricking you into giving up your your constitutional rights. You’ll also improve your odds of driving away safely.
Always Be Calm & Cool
If police flag you down, pull over immediately, turn off your car, and place your hands on the wheel. Police like to see your hands for their own safety — so wait until they request your paperwork before reaching for it. At night, it’s also a good idea to turn on the dome light, so the officer can see you’re not armed.
Always greet policemen and policewomen as “Officer”. For example, you may start off with “Good afternoon, Officer. How’s it going today?” Under no circumstances should you ever talk back, raise your voice, or use profanity with a police officer. Being hostile with police is stupid and dangerous. You can’t win that game.
If the officer writes you a ticket, accept it quietly and never complain. Listen to any instruction on paying the fine or contesting the ticket, and drive away slowly.
Remain Silent: What You Don’t Say Can’t Hurt You
Police may try to get you to admit to having broken a law. For example, an officer may ask, “Do you know how fast you were going?”
You may assert your 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination by refusing to admit you might have broken a law. As such, the best answer to that and similar questions is “No, Officer.”
Because anything you say can and will be used against you in court, the less you say the better. You also don’t want to announce to police that you know your rights. They’ll take that as a challenge. Just keep quiet and calm.
You Have the Right to Refuse Search Requests
Police may order the driver and any passengers out of the vehicle. If this happens, step out of the car. If they have reasonable suspicion to detain you, police may frisk the outside of your clothing to check for weapons, but only if they have a basis for suspecting you’re armed.
If police detain and frisk you, you have the right to clearly state your refusal to consent to the search. For example, you may say “Officer, I’m not resisting. I do not consent to this search.”But you should only verbally refuse. Never physically resist. Just touching an officer could get you tasered or beaten. You could also get a felony charge for assaulting a police officer.
Whether they frisk you or not, police may ask you a series of questions. They will probably include something like “You don’t mind if I have a look in your car?” Beware of that question: It’s the legal loophole that the officer wants to snare you in. (It might even sound like a command, but it’s technically a request.)
In response to such request, you may politely decline by saying “Officer, I know you’re just doing your job, but I don’t consent to searches.” Some officers may use their authority to make you feel obligated to prove your innocence by asking “What do you have to hide?” Don’t fall for such tricks. If necessary, repeat your refusal.
Remember: The 4th Amendment protects your right to refuse search requests, but it doesn’t require police to tell you about your right to refuse. In fact, consenting to searches automatically makes them legal in the eyes of the law. So if you’re pulled over, don’t try to figure out whether or not the officer has probable cause to legally search you. You always have the right to refuse searches.
Refusing a search request is not an admission of guilt and does not give the officer the legal right to search or detain you. In fact, most avoidable police searches don’t occur because police have probable cause. They occur because people get tricked or intimidated into consenting to search requests.
If police search your car and find illegal items despite your refusal, your lawyer can file a motion to suppress — or throw out — the evidence in court. If the judge agrees that the officer’s search violated the 4th Amendment’s probable cause requirements, she’ll grant the motion. Unless the prosecution has other evidence, your charges would be dismissed.
Determine if You’re Free to Go
Unless you’re detained or arrested, you may terminate the encounter anytime. But don’t wait for the officer to dismiss you. Ask if you’re free to go.
For example, if an officer threatens to call in a K-9 unit if you refuse a search, you should ask“Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?”
Not only can this line can help withdraw you from an encounter, it also deflects any of the officer’s probing questions or threats. So if an officer says “If you cooperate with me, everything will go easy for you.” You may respond by saying either “Officer, I don’t consent to any searches” or “Officer, am I free to go?”
If the officer lets you leave, do so immediately. If the officer’s answer is unclear, or if he asks additional questions, persist by repeating “Officer, am I free to go?”
Ask for a Lawyer
If you are not free to go, you are being detained. The officer might have some reason to suspect you of a crime, and you may be arrested.
In such a situation, your magic words are “I’m going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer.” These magic words are like a legal condom. They’re your best protection if you’re under arrest.
Never rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Repeat the magic words as necessary, but say no more. Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court.
Hahahaha cb you're just as dumb as the driver. I agree with you. The cop IS WRONG!!!! But what the hell are you gonna do in the situation? I'm gonna do what he says. I don't want to, but if it saves your life why not? I don't know how to fix the police system and if you do, I hope you do it. But till then I'm gonna make the smartest decision possible which is just cooperating. Then turn the cop in afterwards.
If I die bc I was being smart by following orders then I'm just **** out of luck.
If I die bc I was being smart by following orders then I'm just **** out of luck.
He was never told to get out of the vehicle so how did he refuse the order to exit the vehicle...The cop physically tried to remove him from the vehicle...Without verbally telling him to get out of the vehicle but instead physically removing him from the vehicle, Dubose wasn't refusing to comply, he was defending himself from an assault the moment the cop put his hands on him without any verbal directive. I'm guessing at that point Dubose panicked and decided he needed to get the F out of there. Based on everything that has happened in recent months, not sure I would blame him since it seemed like a bogus stop anyway.
He was about as calm as you could be until the cop put his hands on him without provocation.