School Contracts with student athletes getting creative

Dawgzilla2

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Sorry for another thread on NIL, but I was curious what types of protections universities might be putting in their NIL deals with students. Turns out they are trying everything, including automatic extensions.

I wonder if MSU's contracts will somehow be shielded from disclosure under the Public Records act?

Anyway, the above article mostly targets FSU's attempt, although theirs may not be the most strict:

Since this is new and uncharted territory, they're trying to put in as many things as they can think of and protect that university and see what they get push back on and what they don't," Mit Winter, an attorney who works heavily in the NIL space told CBS Sports.

Put another way by an NIL agent: "They're throwing everything they can and the kitchen sink."


That sink?

It's appearing quite often in Tallahassee, according to multiple agent sources who have at least one player on the Florida State roster.

The Seminoles have included what those agents describe as aggressive language in their rev share contracts, which cover a broad range of issues and are issued directly by the school.

One clause, which CBS Sports has seen a copy of, allows the team to extend a player at the end of their contract unilaterally without having to negotiate with the player. Another section on team rules -- common in most NIL or rev share deals -- includes a maximum $2,500 fine on the first offense if a player loses team equipment such as a pair of cleats. The max fine for using a controlled substance for the first time is $1,000.


There's another clause about things that would constitute a breach of contract. Among them is "illness or injury which is serious enough to affect the value of rights granted to the school." The way it's written allows Florida State to renegotiate or even cancel a player's contract at its discretion after any sort of injury -- among other potential liquidated damages provisions included as part of the contract -- including those that happen on the football field.

There's also a provision that, depending on how it's interpreted, could limit an athlete's right to counsel during any future negotiations.

"Some of the concepts are pretty standard," an agent who represents at least one Florida State player said; they were granted anonymity to allow them to speak freely. "But FSU is going about this far more aggressively than any school I've seen. I'm disappointed by the adversarial nature of these contracts."


It's not just agents who take exception with the way FSU is attempting to write its rev share contracts. CBS Sports contacted at least one general manager from every Power Four conference to understand if some of Florida State's provisions are considered normal.

Said one Big Ten general manager of the three stipulations above: "That's not normal."

Said a GM from the Big 12: "I do understand they have all the leverage, but f***."
 

Dawgzilla2

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One thing to keep in mind, though, is the revenue sharing contract with the school may not be the primary payment to the player. With a total cap of $20.5 million, not very many players will receive even $500k directly from the school. They will be relying on third party deals for the big bucks.

So, if the third party deals at another school are high enough, they will probably be willing to walk away from a draconian contract with their school.
 

Maroon13

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One thing to keep in mind, though, is the revenue sharing contract with the school may not be the primary payment to the player. With a total cap of $20.5 million, not very many players will receive even $500k directly from the school. They will be relying on third party deals for the big bucks.

So, if the third party deals at another school are high enough, they will probably be willing to walk away from a draconian contract with their school.
500,000 is not to sneeze at. However I'm not an irrational money grabbing relative.

My coworker is a D1 football player parent. His perspective on all this and us other football fans at work, couldn't be further apart. The parent called the UT fans rednecks and other derogatory names and Huepel a d***head for not giving Imaleave his money. This parent talked about how stupid UT is and Imaleave was owed the pay increase. Obviously others in office disagree.

I could not imagine having to deal with 85-100 set of parents/handlers that have this attitude.
 

ZombieKissinger

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I’ve said this before but when you have a Nash equilibrium that sucks for the players (in this case, the schools), regulation is one of the main responses. And that’s what happened here. We’ll see how the NIL part holds up, but I do think it’s good for a lot of the schools and ultimately for the vast majority of players
 

Dawgzilla2

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500,000 is not to sneeze at. However I'm not an irrational money grabbing relative.

My coworker is a D1 football player parent. His perspective on all this and us other football fans at work, couldn't be further apart. The parent called the UT fans rednecks and other derogatory names and Huepel a d***head for not giving Imaleave his money. This parent talked about how stupid UT is and Imaleave was owed the pay increase. Obviously others in office disagree.

I could not imagine having to deal with 85-100 set of parents/handlers that have this attitude.
I just threw $500k out there because players were signing deals with multiple millions before the settlement.

There's only $20.5 million to spread among all athletes. For once, State benefits by having the minimum number of sports.

Still, even if 80% goes to football, that's just $16.4 MM to split among 105 players. Even if you save $16MM for your two- deep, that's well under $400K per player. Some folks are gonna be unhappy.

This year may not be too bad, since players already got paid before the settlement. But this will take some serious effort going forward.
 
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patdog

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I just threw $500k out there because players were signing deals with multiple millions before the settlement.

There's only $20.5 million to spread among all athletes. For once, State benefits by having the minimum number of sports.

Still, even if 80% goes to football, that's just $16.4 MM to split among 105 players. Even if you save $16MM for your two- deep, that's well under $400K per player. Some folks are gonna be unhappy.

This year may not be too bad, since players already got paid before the settlement. But this will take some serious effort going forward.
That all sounds good in theory. In practice, the $20.5M is just the floor. The ceiling is whatever schools like Texas want to pay.
 

Dawgzilla2

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That all sounds good in theory. In practice, the $20.5M is just the floor. The ceiling is whatever schools like Texas want to pay.
Assuming their deals can pass the clearinghouse. And then those third party deals aren't going to include the same types of obligations on the players....i don't think.

But I posted in another thread that one way to handle the cap is just as a supplement. Help the star players get their money through third party deals and use the revenue share to pay the players lower on the totem pole.
 

patdog

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Assuming their deals can pass the clearinghouse. And then those third party deals aren't going to include the same types of obligations on the players....i don't think.

But I posted in another thread that one way to handle the cap is just as a supplement. Help the star players get their money through third party deals and use the revenue share to pay the players lower on the totem pole.
It will be abused. And the clearinghouse will be as powerless to stop it as the ncaa was. Just wait till the 1st deal the clearinghouse tries to deny.
 

Maroon13

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Regarding rev share salaries, none of these players get equal amounts in NIl now. I can't imagine schools will pay QB1 the same amount as the practice squad players at the 85th to 105th roster spot.
 

Bulldog Bruce

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Don't see why it's a surprise. The NCAA has been dealing from the bottom of the deck forever. Of course they would try to retain every advantage in the new world too.

As does every sports league or business in the real world.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Sorry for another thread on NIL, but I was curious what types of protections universities might be putting in their NIL deals with students. Turns out they are trying everything, including automatic extensions.

I wonder if MSU's contracts will somehow be shielded from disclosure under the Public Records act?

Anyway, the above article mostly targets FSU's attempt, although theirs may not be the most strict:

Since this is new and uncharted territory, they're trying to put in as many things as they can think of and protect that university and see what they get push back on and what they don't," Mit Winter, an attorney who works heavily in the NIL space told CBS Sports.

Put another way by an NIL agent: "They're throwing everything they can and the kitchen sink."


That sink?

It's appearing quite often in Tallahassee, according to multiple agent sources who have at least one player on the Florida State roster.

The Seminoles have included what those agents describe as aggressive language in their rev share contracts, which cover a broad range of issues and are issued directly by the school.

One clause, which CBS Sports has seen a copy of, allows the team to extend a player at the end of their contract unilaterally without having to negotiate with the player. Another section on team rules -- common in most NIL or rev share deals -- includes a maximum $2,500 fine on the first offense if a player loses team equipment such as a pair of cleats. The max fine for using a controlled substance for the first time is $1,000.


There's another clause about things that would constitute a breach of contract. Among them is "illness or injury which is serious enough to affect the value of rights granted to the school." The way it's written allows Florida State to renegotiate or even cancel a player's contract at its discretion after any sort of injury -- among other potential liquidated damages provisions included as part of the contract -- including those that happen on the football field.

There's also a provision that, depending on how it's interpreted, could limit an athlete's right to counsel during any future negotiations.

"Some of the concepts are pretty standard," an agent who represents at least one Florida State player said; they were granted anonymity to allow them to speak freely. "But FSU is going about this far more aggressively than any school I've seen. I'm disappointed by the adversarial nature of these contracts."


It's not just agents who take exception with the way FSU is attempting to write its rev share contracts. CBS Sports contacted at least one general manager from every Power Four conference to understand if some of Florida State's provisions are considered normal.

Said one Big Ten general manager of the three stipulations above: "That's not normal."

Said a GM from the Big 12: "I do understand they have all the leverage, but f***."
It seems like the scales are in the athletes favor now. I can’t imagine it will take too many years for the people with money at stake to figure out how to minimize their losses. The ratio of attorneys representing the people with financial vial skin in the game vs the players has to be disproportionate.

I hope something reigns in the craziness even though, just like John Morgan***, I’m usually for the little people…
 

patdog

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It seems like the scales are in the athletes favor now. I can’t imagine it will take too many years for the people with money at stake to figure out how to minimize their losses. The ratio of attorneys representing the people with financial vial skin in the game vs the players has to be disproportionate.

I hope something reigns in the craziness even though, just like John Morgan***, I’m usually for the little people…
Yeah. I think over time FSU is going to find it hard to get recruits sign contracts with these restrictions in them.
 

Shmuley

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Maybe I’m just old and crotchety. For the life of me I can’t fathom any moderately intelligent adult thinking it’s a good idea to create a system where 18 year old males (with not-yet-fully-developed brain function) are handed hundreds of thousands of dollars/million + with no oversight or control? Who in their right mind wants to voluntarily be a part of that or contribute to it? It’s a colossal failure on so many levels.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Maybe I’m just old and crotchety. For the life of me I can’t fathom any moderately intelligent adult thinking it’s a good idea to create a system where 18 year old males (with not-yet-fully-developed brain function) are handed hundreds of thousands of dollars/million + with no oversight or control? Who in their right mind wants to voluntarily be a part of that or contribute to it? It’s a colossal failure on so many levels.
My question is, are these adults doing this because of FOMO, or are they genuinely trying to buy wins? It's obvious that we all underestimated the pay-for-play market. I guess there simply is THAT many alumni with FU money that still believe in the school.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Maybe I’m just old and crotchety. For the life of me I can’t fathom any moderately intelligent adult thinking it’s a good idea to create a system where 18 year old males (with not-yet-fully-developed brain function) are handed hundreds of thousands of dollars/million + with no oversight or control? Who in their right mind wants to voluntarily be a part of that or contribute to it? It’s a colossal failure on so many levels.
Just saw a recent Durango SRT 492 post by a WR and it just seemed like a bad idea for many reasons
 

Dawgzilla2

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Regarding rev share salaries, none of these players get equal amounts in NIl now. I can't imagine schools will pay QB1 the same amount as the practice squad players at the 85th to 105th roster spot.
No, the payments will be different for everyone, but they won't be nearly as high as the current deals. I dont even know if evety player has to get paid something, but it seems like they should.
 

Perd Hapley

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I just threw $500k out there because players were signing deals with multiple millions before the settlement.

There's only $20.5 million to spread among all athletes. For once, State benefits by having the minimum number of sports.

Still, even if 80% goes to football, that's just $16.4 MM to split among 105 players. Even if you save $16MM for your two- deep, that's well under $400K per player. Some folks are gonna be unhappy.

This year may not be too bad, since players already got paid before the settlement. But this will take some serious effort going forward.
I don’t think the revenue share is going to be distributed evenly, even within the same sport.

Ultimately it is another thing that coaches are going to have to manage as far as allocation, but the 20 guys at the bottom of the roster who would have all been walk-ons under the old system (and probably still will be that level of player at schools like MSU) are not going to be getting paid like a starting QB or even a 2nd string DT.

There’s plenty of room to pay a star QB like $3 million, a stud WR $2 million, stud DT $1.5 million, then have an average of $200k to give to the next 50 players. That’s an incredible amount of money. At MSU, that’s really the only chance to compete. We’re going to have to do the opposite of what big schools are doing…..going to have to just use rev share for the most important players and probably accept a lot higher turnover from the bottom of the roster. No way should we be paying more than 50-55 players. Maybe not even that many.
 
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Dawgzilla2

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I don’t think the revenue share is going to be distributed evenly, even within the same sport.

Ultimately it is another thing that coaches are going to have to manage as far as allocation, but the 20 guys at the bottom of the roster who would have all been walk-ons under the old system (and probably still will be that level of player at schools like MSU) are not going to be getting paid like a starting QB or even a 2nd string DT.

There’s plenty of room to pay a star QB like $3 million, a stud WR $2 million, stud DT $1.5 million, then have an average of $200k to give to the next 50 players. That’s an incredible amount of money. At MSU, that’s really the only chance to compete. We’re going to have to do the opposite of what big schools are doing…..going to have to just use rev share for the most important players and probably accept a lot higher turnover from the bottom of the roster. No way should we be paying more than 50-55 players. Maybe not even that many.
Its not going to be spread evenly, but I can't imagine spending half of your money on just 4 or 5 players. That doesn't make any sense at all, particularly when those are the guys who can cash in on third party deals. I dont know what a #2 or #3 WR may have already been paid for this year, but I dont see how you could pay them $250K next year while yhe top guy gets 7 figures. That's unmanageable.
 

Perd Hapley

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Its not going to be spread evenly, but I can't imagine spending half of your money on just 4 or 5 players. That doesn't make any sense at all, particularly when those are the guys who can cash in on third party deals. I dont know what a #2 or #3 WR may have already been paid for this year, but I dont see how you could pay them $250K next year while yhe top guy gets 7 figures. That's unmanageable.
The whole thing is unmanageable regardless. It’s a shít show. But, if the whole clearinghouse approval process actually does operate as designed (which I honestly doubt very strongly will happen), then MSU is simply not going to be able to get legitimate 3rd party deals in the seven figures to be approved. There’s just no way that there is a legitimate business case that can be made for those players in MS to have that level of endorsement value, unless they are already social media superstars for some other purpose besides athletics before they even get to campus.

And there’s no way we’re even scratching out 4-5 wins without those players at a minimum, and other schools who could use them WILL be able to get the 3rd party deals through. We really have no choice, IF the system works as designed. If it doesn’t (which is likely), then none of it matters. We’re going to get beat out for those players no matter what we do.