SEC Recruiting - Today vs the Past(MSU perspective)

[engie]

Recruiting - scout + rivals average rankings for 02-03(Sherrill's last two seasons)
Georgia - 7.25
Tennessee - 8
LSU - 8.25
Auburn - 11
Florida - 11.5
Texas A&M - 12.5
South Carolina - 13
Mississippi State - 15.75
Arkansas - 25.25
Ole Miss - 32.25
Alabama - 40.25
Missouri - 41.5
Vanderbilt - 66.25
Kentucky - 72

Recruiting - scout + rivals average rankings for 04-08(Croom's tenure)
Florida - 6.2
Georgia - 7.2
LSU - 8.6
Alabama - 13.3
Tennessee - 15.2
Auburn - 15.9
Texas A&M - 19.9
South Carolina - 22.1
Arkansas - 28.1
Ole Miss - 28.2
Missouri - 37.5
Mississippi State - 42.4
Kentucky - 50.8
Vanderbilt - 75.8

Recruiting - scout + rivals average rankings for 09-current(Mullen's tenure)
Alabama - 3.3
LSU - 6.8
Florida - 9.1
Auburn - 9.2
Georgia - 9.4
Tennessee - 15.3
South Carolina - 17.3
Texas A&M - 17.9
Ole Miss - 27.9
Arkansas - 29.4
Mississippi State - 30.3
Missouri - 36.4
Kentucky - 46.9
Vanderbilt - 48.9

From the start of "the streak" in 2006 (average by year 06-current) (overall average)
Alabama - 14.5, 16, 1, 1.5, 4.5, 4, 1.5, 5 - 6
LSU - 7, 4.5, 9, 2.5, 6.5, 7.5, 12, 5.5 - 6.8125
Florida - 2, 1, 7.5, 16, 1.5, 19, 4, 5 - 7
Georgia - 4, 13, 6, 5, 18, 5, 13, 6 - 8.75
Auburn - 9.5, 6.5, 19, 17.5, 5, 4.5, 9, 10 - 10.125
Tennessee - 23.5, 3.5, 35, 9, 12.5, 11.5, 21, 22.5 - 17.3125
South Carolina - 28.5, 6.5, 28, 12.5, 29, 15, 16, 14 - 18.6875
Texas A&M - 23.5, 34.5, 15.5, 17, 21, 28.5, 18, 5 - 20.375
Ole Miss - 15, 29, 33.5, 17.5, 16.5, 19.5, 49, 22 - 25.25
Arkansas - 28.5, 32.5, 30, 18, 42, 20.5, 26.5, 40 - 29.75
Mississippi State - 43.5, 33, 38.5, 22, 38, 44.5, 24, 23 - 33.3125
Missouri - 52.5, 36, 33, 39, 24, 47, 32, 40 - 37.9375
Kentucky - 35, 56, 55, 34, 48, 46.5, 46.5, 59.5 - 47.5625
Vanderbilt - 61.5, 77, 82, 71.5, 57.5, 59.5, 37, 19 - 58.125

2012 and 2013 classes (where they were in 2002-2003 when Jackie was here)
Alabama - 3.25(40.25)
Florida - 4.5(11.5)
LSU - 8.75(8.25)
Georgia - 9.5(7.25)
Auburn - 9.5(11)
Texas A&M - 11.5(12.5)
South Carolina - 15(13)
Tennessee - 21.75(8)
Mississippi State - 23.5(15.75)
Vanderbilt - 28(66.25)
Arkansas - 33.25(25.25)
Ole Miss - 35.5(32.25)
Missouri - 36(41.5)
Kentucky - 48(72)
total recruiting average now(then) - 20.57(26.05)

Under Dan Mullen, we have beaten 6 of the 9 teams that have more talent than us. There are only two that we've played more than once and haven't beaten(Alabama and LSU). My judgement of these numbers(feel free to judge for yourself) says that we do not have a coaching problem, we(still) have a talent problem. Even though our recruiting is improving now, so is the rest of the SEC. We've got to continue to improve in that regard, as well as thinking outside the box with JUCO guys, young TeamUSA guys, etc.

There is alot of perspective in these numbers regarding the job that our coaching staff has done both as coaches and recruits. Those looking for some perspective will find it here...

 

[Shmuley]

Help me understand how a "recruiting problem" is not a "coaching problem."

 

[CadaverDawg]

Once again....

 

[CadaverDawg]

The recruiting problem has gotten better....I think it just shows that moving from the #40 position to the #23 position, is much easier than going from #23 to #10. The competition gets stiffer the higher your recruiting rankings get, and I think we will make another stride with the 2012 and 2013 classes in moving that average up.

 

[engie]

Help me understand how a "recruiting problem" is not a "coaching problem."

Overall, recruiting is the coach's responsibility. I'm not implying that it isn't. The 10 and 11 classes have been a huge setback for us with this coaching staff. No one will deny that.

I'm referencing that many of our fans are now EXPECTING us to start consistently defeating teams that are all considerably more talented than we are. It's ridiculous to set expectations that high until we have the talent to match the expectations.

 

[Shmuley]

I expect our f'n coaching staff to STFU with the **** talk and get results on the recruiting trail. As far as consistently defeating teams that are more talented, hell why don't we start with just being f'n competitive?

Not a rant at you, by the way. Good info.

 

[chew1095]

I agree Rabbi. I know of no one that actually believes we should start beating the Bamas and LSUs of the world.

But for the love of God and everything that is Holy in this world, show the 17 up on game day. That is not expecting or asking too much when we are paying one of the original founders of the New Hampshire Mafia 2.7 and some jingly to get our guys ready to smash heads and chase around an oblong object.

I enjoyed the info as well Engie.

 

[JackShephard]

thanks for this. short and to the point.

 

[engie]

I expect our f'n coaching staff to STFU with the **** talk and get results on the recruiting trail. As far as consistently defeating teams that are more talented, hell why don't we start with just being f'n competitive?

Not a rant at you, by the way. Good info.

It seems to me that Mullen got humbled in the 2011 season and decided it was time to put his head down and start recruiting and stfu for the most part. The last two years have been much different on the recruiting trail...and I'm still expecting Brewster to pull a couple rabbits out of the hat between now and signing day.

One thing having Brewster on staff has shown me is just how marginal the rest of our staff is as recruiters(or at least how limited they all are geographically). We've got to upgrade in that manner and start recruiting more nationally. Brewster has opened more doors for us in a couple months than the rest of the staff has done in 4 years with gamechanger/national-type recruits.

I truly believe that the SEC's rise gives us the ability to go into other states(outside the SEC footprint) and seriously compete for blue-chip talent. This is starting to be seen with the guys that us/Ole Miss have an excellent chance of pulling this year from outside our normal recruiting grounds...

All this said: I'm not excusing the problems we saw on the field this year. I HATED how soft we were as a team top to bottom...and how it appeared we quit at the first signs of adversity. Those problems have GOT to be fixed, and I don't care how we go about doing it. Relentless effort has got to be more than just a catchy phrase at Mississippi State... and up until several flashes this season, I had seen it.

Need to get enough bodies at the QB position to make them (mostly) live in practice. Seemed to me the no-contact rule with Russell may have contributed something to the whole defense becoming so soft...

 

[maroonmania]

The one on staff that has really disappoints me is Collins as far as...

It seems to me that Mullen got humbled in the 2011 season and decided it was time to put his head down and start recruiting and stfu for the most part. The last two years have been much different on the recruiting trail...and I'm still expecting Brewster to pull a couple rabbits out of the hat between now and signing day. One thing having Brewster on staff has shown me is just how marginal the rest of our staff is as recruiters(or at least how limited they all are geographically). We've got to upgrade in that manner and start recruiting more nationally. Brewster has opened more doors for us in a couple months than the rest of the staff has done in 4 years with gamechanger/national-type recruits.I truly believe that the SEC's rise gives us the ability to go into other states(outside the SEC footprint) and seriously compete for blue-chip talent. This is starting to be seen with the guys that us/Ole Miss have an excellent chance of pulling this year from outside our normal recruiting grounds...All this said: I'm not excusing the problems we saw on the field this year. I HATED how soft we were as a team top to bottom...and how it appeared we quit at the first signs of adversity. Those problems have GOT to be fixed, and I don't care how we go about doing it. Relentless effort has got to be more than just a catchy phrase at Mississippi State... and up until several flashes this season, I had seen it.Need to get enough bodies at the QB position to make them (mostly) live in practice. Seemed to me the no-contact rule with Russell may have contributed something to the whole defense becoming so soft...

the recruiting scene goes. I say that because he came from FIU with a nice reputation as a recruiter having supposedly been a big part of putting some really good Bama classes together. And when we hired him he raved about recruiting and how much he loved it and how good he was at it. Brewster puts him (and the rest of our staffJ) to shame though.

 

[RocketDawg]

Yes. Looks like too we should hire Sherrill as head recruiter ... but I suppose we can't do that given his reputed "methodology" in recruiting. One thing's for sure -- we don't need to copy Croom's tactics.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

This is bullcrap.....

We signed the #18 class in the country LAST YEAR, with no Tim Brewster. He's good, but our staff isn't a bunch of idiots. That class was mainly formed well in advance and during the 2011 season, so if he got 'humbled' then it didn't affect much. In reality, Brewster may help us sign ONE or TWO recruits we wouldn't have. Again, that will be great, but hardly a terrible indictment of our staff. Come on, guy, get with reality.

None of ya'll know the real reason we've had recruiting ups and downs. I don't think our 2010 class was that bad, we won the instate battle. I personally think Mullen was going to jump after 2010 if he could. Hudspeth was hired to replace Mullen to begin with, that supports this. He kinda coasted after that and learned his recruiting lession on Signing Day 2011.

As far as getting humbled, it's hard getting a losing program to deal with success, which is exactly what DIDN'T happen in 2011. Auburn punched us in the mouth and we never recovered. Another reason I hate those mfers.

 

[engie]

the recruiting scene goes. I say that because he came from FIU with a nice reputation as a recruiter having supposedly been a big part of putting some really good Bama classes together. And when we hired him he raved about recruiting and how much he loved it and how good he was at it. Brewster puts him (and the rest of our staffJ) to shame though.

I'm with you on all this, especially about Collins. He's given us Beniquez Brown and not much else really...

Then again, we've got him recruiting Alabama(maybe Georgia as well?), which is one of the most difficult states in the country to steal(game changing) recruits out of.

We've got to broaden our recruiting scope overall if we are ever going to take another step forward. Brewster's presence and the fact that he's been all over the country talking to blue-chip recruits that are suddenly interested in MSU make that blatantly obvious to me...

 

[engie]

We signed the #18 class in the country LAST YEAR, with no Tim Brewster. He's good, but our staff isn't a bunch of idiots. That class was mainly formed well in advance and during the 2011 season, so if he got 'humbled' then it didn't affect much. In reality, Brewster may help us sign ONE or TWO recruits we wouldn't have. Again, that will be great, but hardly a terrible indictment of our staff. Come on, guy, get with reality.

Last year's class was #23 in composite rankings... good for 9th best in the SEC. Not surprised that you cherrypicked the site that always overrates MSU's classes to make this point. Yes it was a very good class, but in no way did we climb the SEC ladder with that class. Mainly formed well in advance? You mean, other than Quay, Denico, Richie, Beniquez, Siddoway, Jefferson among others? The class itself may have been more than half full, but most of the stars didn't jump on board until much later in the game.

Brewster has gotten us in the door with(and official visits from) 5* Jalen Ramsey(Tenn), 5* MacKenzie Alexander(Fla), high 4* Elijah Daniel(Ind), mid 4* Carroll Washington(Cali), the elite freshmen commits in North Carolina, 4* Tommy Sanders(Kansas), high 3* Jeremey Chappelle(Texas), high 3* Nate Willis(Arizona), 4* Myles Jack(Washington), among others. That is what he's done in his first THREE MONTHS on the job with practicallly zero recruiting ties in the southeast. What will he do with a full year on the job? Say what you will...but the amount of immediate success he's having on the recruiting trail is exposing inadequacies that our staff has had in the past. Hopefully, the rest of the staff rises to his level and learns something from him.

Last sentence... Really? Coming from the person that holds the SPS record on bannations to an extent that it will likely never be broken, that is pretty funny.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Last sentence... Really? Coming from the person that holds the SPS record on bannations to an extent that it will likely never be broken, that is pretty funny.

You know you're beat when you go to this type stuff. 'Yes it was a very good class'.....so why are you arguing? 9th of 14 in the SEC, man that sucks so terribly.

Look guy, who cares when the guys actually committed for SD 2012. They were recruited all year long by the staff. You know this, you're just trying to poke holes in my argument (and failing). Like I said, Brewster will help us land a couple of recruits because he's widely considered ONE OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY. That in no way means our staff can't recruit.

By the way, out of the 10 recruits you listed, 2 are like in Jr. High, while 4 are in JUCO. Shocker that MSU would land highly rated JUCOs, that's all on Brewster baby! I am confident that he'll land 1 or 2 of the remaining HS guys. Daniel is going to FL. Alexander and Ramsey are the two I see us having a shot with, and that's probably because we're about to put 2 DBs in the NFL. Thanks Brewster again!

Just no your nitpicking *** doesn't try to say I'm downplaying Brewster....I am most certainly not. Have a nice night.

 

[engie]

Ok goat # 7598173981. My point was well-made. You are just looking to ***** for the sake of bitching, while being a dumbass in the process. You don't want me to nitpick your post, but that is what you already attempted to do to mine, while throwing in the little dumbass sentence at the end. Shocker. You are correct in the fact that I shot your argument full of holes. Beyond that, I'm not arguing semantics with someone that accomplishes the near impossible task of being banned from SPS on a regular basis.

 

[121Josey]

Did you really read Engie's post?

We signed the #18 class in the country LAST YEAR, with no Tim Brewster. He's good, but our staff isn't a bunch of idiots. That class was mainly formed well in advance and during the 2011 season, so if he got 'humbled' then it didn't affect much. In reality, Brewster may help us sign ONE or TWO recruits we wouldn't have. Again, that will be great, but hardly a terrible indictment of our staff. Come on, guy, get with reality.

None of ya'll know the real reason we've had recruiting ups and downs. I don't think our 2010 class was that bad, we won the instate battle. I personally think Mullen was going to jump after 2010 if he could. Hudspeth was hired to replace Mullen to begin with, that supports this. He kinda coasted after that and learned his recruiting lession on Signing Day 2011.

As far as getting humbled, it's hard getting a losing program to deal with success, which is exactly what DIDN'T happen in 2011. Auburn punched us in the mouth and we never recovered. Another reason I hate those mfers.

Shut the 17 up! You get with reality. This is so illogical. We got better last year because of Collins. He actually knew something about recruiting (I suspect he might know something about defense if they ever ask him).

Punky Brewster has been a Game - 17in' - Changer! Period. He's gotten blue-chippers to at least visit. He himself hasn't signed anybody, but he sure makes people give us a second look.

Dealing with success wasn't our problem in 2011. It's our 17ing talent going to play in the NFL and our coaches, who couldn't recruit their way out of a wet paper bag, got left with substandard talent (see 2011-2012 OL and DL)!

 

[Railin Jemmye]

We got better last year because of Collins.

Right.

Brewster has been a Game - 17in' - Changer! Period. He's gotten blue-chippers to at least visit.

That's tough. Never had that happen before.

He himself hasn't signed anybody, but he sure makes people give us a second look.

Yeeeahh, so he's a game changer, but.....we have no proof of that ie he hasn't gotten us much more than what we already had. Whatever dude. Still not sure how you illiterate morons are taking this to mean I'm talking bad about Brewster. He's going to be great, if he can pull 1 or 2 recruits like I've said countless times in this thread, he will have done his job.

Dealing with success wasn't our problem in 2011. It's our 17ing talent going to play in the NFL and our coaches, who couldn't recruit their way out of a wet paper bag, got left with substandard talent (see 2011-2012 OL and DL)!

You mean that 1st round DT we had, or the future 1st round DB. You're right, we lost some talent though. Something every team does. People bitched to no end about 6-6 last year. I simply told you why we went 6-6. Had we had the same chip on our shoulder in 2011 that we did in 2010, we beat Auburn for sure. Then the season turns out differently.

Speaking of recrootin, engie, you need to recruit yourself some better puppets to take up for you when you get owned.

 

[o_hacker]

Speaking of recrootin, engie, you need to recruit yourself some better puppets to take up for you when you get owned.

HAHAHAHHA. Yes, you owned engie so hard! I knew this was a competition!

But seriously, we need to pay/promote Brewster. I'm worried someone is going to swoop in and pay him to be OC somewhere. At this point, he's got to be the most valuable person on the staff outside of Mullen and Balis.

 

[121Josey]

Yeeeahh, so he's a game changer, but.....we have no proof of that ie he hasn't gotten us much more than what we already had. Whatever dude. Still not sure how you illiterate morons are taking this to mean I'm talking bad about Brewster. He's going to be great, if he can pull 1 or 2 recruits like I've said countless times in this thread, he will have done his job.

You mean that 1st round DT we had, or the future 1st round DB. You're right, we lost some talent though. Something every team does. People bitched to no end about 6-6 last year. I simply told you why we went 6-6. Had we had the same chip on our shoulder in 2011 that we did in 2010, we beat Auburn for sure. Then the season turns out differently.

1. He's still recruiting!!! He has already gotten us more than we had! Outside of Quay, when was the last time State signed a consensus Top 10 (non-juco) player at his position?

2. If he can pull 1 or 2 recruits? We're talking about blue-chippers here. Give us 1-2 Top 100 recruits on top of what we already have and we're in business!

3. Auburn did not ruin our season last year. Maybe the bruising we took against LSU the next week. Plus, the SC game was more of a let down because it was a home game against a better team. You sure are an AU homer!

 

[Coach 57]

Not a recruiting guru like Azzuri or Engie but I can tell you this Collins isn't what we thought he was as a recruiter or especially a coach. He's had the same luxury the last 2 yrs (having a film nut on the field in Cam) and his unit has still underperformed. Alot of Cam's tackles are just hustle and effort plays, it's not a schematic thing. You can't coach effort like that you either have it or you don't.

 

[tcdog70]

I think We need to step up JUCO recruiting. I have no problem with 6 or 7 a year. Even the JUCOs who are not great provide depth. When we have been successful JUCOs are the reason. Ms JUCOs are a big advantage for MSU we need to use them More.

 

[engie]

I think We need to step up JUCO recruiting. I have no problem with 6 or 7 a year. Even the JUCOs who are not great provide depth. When we have been successful JUCOs are the reason. Ms JUCOs are a big advantage for MSU we need to use them More.

Agreed.

Think we end up taking 6-8 JUCOs this year, and that is about right. We've got to use the MS JUCO system to our benefit,,,

 

[121Josey]

Hate for Collins, Hail Cam?

Not a recruiting guru like Azzuri or Engie but I can tell you this Collins isn't what we thought he was as a recruiter or especially a coach. He's had the same luxury the last 2 yrs (having a film nut on the field in Cam) and his unit has still underperformed. Alot of Cam's tackles are just hustle and effort plays, it's not a schematic thing. You can't coach effort like that you either have it or you don't.

I'm not real sure what your expectations were of Collins as a recruiter or a coach. 1) As a recruiter, we saw instant improvement with Collins having a full year to recruit. 2) As a coach, has his group underperformed worse than, say, the DL? Worse than the DBs? Worse than the OL? Worse than the Special Teams? And has McKinney underperformed your expectations too? I'm sure Collins has everything to do with his under-performance. And Cam's problem is not really a "schematic thing"? Why did he stop lighting the world on fire after he was moved from MLB? Don't you remember - Cam could see the play before it happens - must have been a "schematic thing".**